Well we've been search for a dozer for the last few weeks, thought the little new holland DC80 would be good but it's just not enough tractor for that blade. Here is what I'm going to go look at the begining of next week. It's a 2002 DEERE 650H. About 90% undercariage, just been repained, 2500 hrs, full cab with heat/ AC. good price It's not a LGP but will still work good for our needs, if it's that wet will just use the excavators like we've always done. I may get out welder to fab up some sweeps and rear, maybe side window guards. Owner said he would leave the keys in it and told me to go play around in the dirt pile behind his shop if he's not there when I arrive. sounds good to me! Here's the link. http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...6315978&GUID=E75E25893A9F4D9797A79E61A353E9E5
that's a sweet looking toy. let us know what you think about it. by the way, how's the toe doing, Chris?
toes good, still looks nasty though. did some more tree removal, killing, breaking, and destruction this week. will post pictures later:drinkup
Pretty nice lookin' dozer dirtman. The sheet metal looks good and the pads look like they have some life in them. Check the moldboard on the blade. Those cutting edges look like they have already been turned and the end bits look a little skimpy. Sometimes folks don't change their end bits when they need to and it eats into the moldboard. (maybe you can get the seller to throw in a new set, the ol' 13th donut rule ) With only 2500 hours, that little dozer has alot of life left in it and for the price, should be a productive unit if everything else checks out. BTW - The Deere is a much better choice than the NH in my opinion.
Not sure if that would work for you. That dozer looks to be set up for finish grading (the pads), not so much for bulk pushing, tree removal, etc. However, give it a try, you may be surprised, and I may be wrong. I have run several 650's, and loved every one of them.
As I'm a rookie with dozers, what do you mean by the "pads"? not wide enough or the tread not deep enough for bulk pushing?
I think he is referring to an LGP machine, but I could be wrong. Let us know, I think you'll like that better than the NH as well.
The blade capacity, machine size and HP determine the amount of "bulk pushing". Yes this is technically a finish dozer, but that doesn't mean it will not push dirt. As with all equipment, it depends on your specific project and what you need the machine to do within the budget and time constraints of the job. Since you have been using a Tak 150 to perform what you have needed to get done, the Deere 650 will definetely be an increase in productivity. The question to ask yourself is - Do I need a LGP machine for the jobsite conditions I work in? Hey - demo the machine on one of your projects and try a LGP before you guys decide to buy. You may find out the LGP works better than a standard. Me personally I don't run LGP's. The tracks are wider and more susceptible to bending a track pad than a standard track. We mostly work in rocky conditions and the XL or standard versions work better for our work. The LGP will also accelerate the wear of the undercarriage a little more than a XL or standard, due to the increase friction between the ground and the pad area. Now if you work in soft conditions, a LGP is a lifesaver and the XL or standard would be well....... stuck. Just need to find the right machine for what you guys do most of the time.
That what I'm trying to figure out, It's really a crap shoot ointhead It's almost 50/ 50 on working in wet stuff or nice dry dirt. Most of the ponds we do have a bottom, once you get there so once an area has been dug down a regular dozer would work fine. Just with the little NH we are renting, I've noticed that it will go places that the skid steer will just dissapear in. take it the 650 will have narrower tracks and weighs more, I still believe it will go places where the skid steer boggs down. Almost need two dozers, but I thinking that the long track standard version will be the better rought. Next question, will the regular tracked dozer handle the sideways slopes like and LGP will, I'm guessing it will be less stable when going sideways.
We always need more equipment! (just don't say that to the wife ) Since I have never owned an LGP, I will preface my answer with that being said. I have a D5G XL and a D6N XL. Both tractors have worked some steep slopes blading topsoil. (It's a good thing the inspectors don't actually measure the slopes ) The D5G will go on slopes that will make the pucker factor go up a few points. Usually we track our slopes from the bottom up, so side sloping is usually not a problem. However, sometimes ya' gotta do whatcha' gotta' do and the D5G feels more comfortable on the side slope than the D6N. I guess the question is how much side slope work do you have to do? I would try each type of dozer in the general conditions you guys work in before making a purchase.
That is a pretty looking 650. From what you can tell via the pics, the U.C. looks pretty good and no other obvious signs of abuse to the tractor itself. CM may have a point about the cutting edges but, for me, if that's the only issue and the money is right then do it. Owner said he would leave the keys in it and told me to go play around in the dirt pile behind his shop if he's not there when I arrive. sounds good to me! Is it just me or is that a really trusting owner?......:dizzy
Oh, and sorry to hear about the DC80. To this point, I've been led to believe decent things about the Macmotor New Hollands. A guy north of town bought a used DC70 and built a very nice 1/2 acre tank with one in short order. Looked to be a nice running unit in just observing the operation. No first hand knowledge here, though. I do kind of wonder, after your video, if it was maybe some mechanical issue with your rental that led to it's disappointing results. That much iron and motor should produce more than you related to us.
If the LGP machine they have is only 10 grand more and it's a year newer with a thousand more hours on it than this one, it may be worth looking into. Is there any warranty left or being offered on this one or the LGP? I know it will make some on here cringe, but since the LGP machines are always in need of more power, you could always turn it up a little....I stress ....a little. For what you are doing, I would look toward the LGP if you like the way it feels and can afford the extra money. Just my feelings on it though since you can always run an LGP machine in hard conditions...yes, with more wear.....but it's much harder to run a standard machine in soft conditions. Check out what new undercarriage is worth for both, that may also help you make up your mind. One option, if you could justify it, would be to buy a used set of narrow tracks for the LGP and swap them back and forth if you were going to be working in one type of conditions or the other for extended periods of time. Yes, I realise that's a very pricey and not necessarily practical proposition. Brian
After owning a LGP dozer for what I do I'm not sure if I would ever go back to a standard track. Now the one thing that has me really spoild is running a LGP pyramid/swamp track in this muck that we have in some places, take a regular track through it, load them up and start sliding, pyramid track keeps cleaning it self off. oh so nice :cool2 Just my 2 cents from what I'v read it seems like you do a lot of pond work, possible muck and lots of soft soil. i would try to find a LGP machine. After gettin stuck a fefw times makes that sweet deal not so sweet,
To LGP or not to LGP. Hi, Dirtman2007. That JD looks to be a nice machine. I haven't had anything to with the late JD's, so I'm not able to comment on their reliability or performance. What I can say is that quite often a wide gauge dozer with standard track shoes (pads) will stay up on side slopes where the same machine with LGP shoes will slide. The narrower shoes tend to sink in a little more and get a better bite. If you encounter very little to no rock, the LGP would be a viable option. If you encounter a lot of soft going and mud or sand, the LGP would be pretty much a must. There would be very little difference in pushing ability between standard and LGP shoes on firm ground. The LGP shoes would start to shine in low traction or soft conditions. The LGP's are a little more expensive with regard to upkeep, so you need to look at what you might gain by having them instead of standard shoes and choose whichever you think will give you the best bottom line. Just my 0.02.
I was refering to the treads not deep enough. As I said, give it a try, the worst you will do is burn up someone else's diesel.
Just like to thank everyone for their input in this machine, lots of good information. I'll get ya'll updated and get some more pictures maybe a video of it when I go do a test drive next week.
Few things. Ive worked some seriously nasty mud with a 650G lt. The H is going to be heavier. Ive seen some of the jobs you guys do. Youve shown pictures of piling up slop, and waiting a few months to come back and spread it out. Ive done the same. We would always rough things in as best as we could. Leaving some deep ruts from the tracks. Let it sit a week or two, weather depending, come back and finish it off. You made the comment that the ponds you work do have a bottom. Thats good. This 650 will work just fine. Slowly work your way into the bottom of the pond. Push a little here, a little there. Get a solid starting point and away you go. Ive made water and mud run UPHILLL. You just keep a head of material in front of you and keep a wall of mud there. I find this extremely helpfull when it comes to pumping water. You never seem to get all of it. So using mud, I crowd the water to the pump. The dozer looks to be in good shape, minus the cutting edges. A Dupont overhaul does hide a lot. Nothing you cant find by moving some serious dirt. Take advantage of that set of keys. Cut your self a trench, 5ft deep, and a little wider than the dozer. For as long of a distance you can. By the time you move all the dirt outa your hole, and push it back in you will get a very good idea on what kind of shape this machine is in. Yes an lgp may be better for some jobs. Then again, all the guys around here seem to thing they need an lgp machine to grade sand. In my opinion thats nothing but training wheels for a finish dozer operator
:idea Forgot to mention, be sure and take some oil, hyd. and coolant samples before you guys decide to buy.
:iagree A few of my competitors swear by wide tracks, funny thing is I do the same jobs with a narrow track and it does just as good 97% of the time. For the few jobs we need a wide track for we either use a diffrent method (excavator/dragline/etc) or rent a wide track if we really need it. I just can't justify the extra expense of the undercarraige, and extra fuel it burns for the couple times a year we actualy need one. I also think that in medium to hard material a narrow track pushes harder, and is more productive (especialy when you get up to D6 size and are comparing the short wide LGP blade to the narrower taller SU blade). I cringe every time I see someone using a LGP dozer to cut heavy (hard) clay or level gravel/stone/sand. LGP machines definatly have there place, but they are best left in it, anytime you don't need the extra floatation, you are just grinding away dollars, guess it keeps the undercarriage salesmen happy though. I also believe that a ripper on an LGP machine is a bit of an oxy-moron arangement, but I have seen it. :beatsme
I like the xl machine with the tall grousers.The taller grousers will sure dig up the ground ,when working mud and wet clay. The wide track machine are better for flotation like said,but sometime it's just like big wide tires on a machine they float better ,but they don't grip as good as a near deep treaded machine. Same holds true for a dozer.I also like the semi U blades better then 6-way blades,if you not doing a lot of v ditches or slope. I like them better because you can carry dirt better and not running around the blade all the time or as much.Plus i can finish with a semi u,just as good as a 6-way,maybe better at time if i need to carry dirt quite a ways on a smaller one machine job. Also if you want to do much clearing the semi U is tuffer blade then the 6-way.Especially if you having to do a lot of corning with the blade and tilted at a high angle.Good luck.:usa
ror76a. I know what you mean. Theres a few around here in the valley. I think Marx still has a D6R lgp. For some reason I see it with their concrete crushing crew a lot. Seems to be pushing concrete up to the excavator or loader feeding the crusher. On I75 in Bridgeport, I saw a D6lgp grading 21aa. Got me as to why some of these guys believe in em. The best use I saw for a wide track was earlier this spring. On M59 down in Howell Six-S had a 6rlgp working a charge. Its a pretty cool method of mucking out a deep swap area. Truck were hauling sand in, dumping on one end of the swap. The 6R was pushing the sand up into a pile on the edge of the muck. As high as he could, and would keep working the pile over top the muck. The weight of the sand displaces the muck. There was an excavator on the other end bailing the mud into trucks to haul it away. A long track with tall grousers wouldnt be able to push that pile as high in such a short distance
That is very true in my book as well. One of the last few issues of the print version of Machinery Trader had a D6R LGP with a 3 shank ripper. To me that is a waste of money.:beatsme ointhead
The dozer search continues Up and leave the house at 5:30am ready and eager to go check out the 650 dozers I've seen online. I mean we had it set up so that if it was what we needed it would have been paid for and on our jobsite by the end of the day. So I get there bright and early and start looking at the machines, had 3 john deere 650's one cat D5g and another jd 450. from a distance I say man these 650's look great but apon further inspection my happiness declines. ok this is a small little equipment sales yard. the owner said the U/C's on the dozers were 90% and both had about 2500 hrs on them(he said this on the phone) Ok so I look and the U/C is ok, pins have been turned so I don't consider that "new". Then I hop up in the cab, can't find the hour meter to save my live in either one of the dozers, finally the owner arrives and states that he does not know hours as the meters have been gone since he bought them and that they usually average 1000hrs a year on this machine. First sign that I may be getting screwed, so now I have a dozer that can have between 2500 and 6000 hrs:-] Looking at the blade and there's welds, plates, edges are worn. few leaks and to top it off it had a 5 gallon paint job to "freshen things up" few pics so negative on the deere's and now onto the cat D5G. Drove it, everythings works fine but the A/C is not very cold. It's a 2003 cat D5G 20" pads, no battle scars, original paint 2480 hrs. very nice little dozer and price at $64,000 after some haggeling. Call Cat with the serial # and they tell me that they've only had in once in Dec 2007 for service and to fix a minor electrical problem. now I'm concerned that he may be hiding somthing on this machine since I caught him in a lie on the 650's.... just a reminder he offers no warranty on his machines. couple pics
the hunt continues... now we have a 2007 Komatsu D39 with around 743 hrs on it. 24" pads LGP machine, but no cab, steal of a deal at $64,500. I drove it at the dealer, pushed some dirt and got a face full of dust and crap, nope I want a cab. Really love this machine!! smooth, quite and fast! SO at the time I'm getting a price for a bran spankin new 2007 D39 with a full cab, heat, A/C, radio ect. more pictures 2007 Komatsu 39 with 743 hrs Check out the new 2008 or 2009 D 51 Ultimate visability, check it out the radiator is in the back of the machine so the hood can be as low as possible. Talk about a powerfull machine, you aught to hear that baby roar! About the size of a cat D6
Busy yet confusing day on which machines to get. Right know it's looking like a new komatsu 39 with cab
WOW sounds like an interesting dealer you were working with there....interesting that he can't find the hour meter, doesn't offer a warranty...strange.
im a little confused...you are buying equipment for a company you don't own?
no, I'm not personally paying for it, it's a family business. I'm just out there with my uncle (the owner) helping him make a decision on what machine he should buy. I treat everything as my own so when I say "we" I meaning "he's" paying and "I'm" Choosing. Within in reason of course. Needless to say I'm going to be running it most of the time so I want somthing nice, productive, and good on the operator.
Dirtman- I don't know if you ever found the hour meters on the Deere machines, but the H Series has them on the right side (if you're sittiing in it) of the gauge instrument console. You pretty much need to be outside of the machine and look through the door to see it. Don't ask me why they placed them there... maybe for used selling purposes if the cab is locked. I had the same trouble when looking at some 450 H's.
Hers a link to a couple, may be a bit more than you want to spend, and further than you want to go. But good people. http://www.generaltruckandequipment.com/dozers.htm
Welcome to the Forums DM21!:drinkup
ohhh ok...haha, i was gonna say if you are buying that machine so he cant run it let me have a little of your money
bought one today Papers were signed today for a 2008 Komatsu D39PX. Machine is located In Florida at the time. Full cab, 24" pads, 95 HP and weighs almost 20,000LBS. 6 way blade. Man this thing had more speeds than any machine I've ever been on. It'll go from a crawl to wide ass open hold onto your seat! It has a blade that's almost 11' wide and rated to push 3 yards. I think it has the rocks guards all the way across the bottom U/C. Anyways I'm excited about getting it next week as I have several jobs where one is needed. not the actual machine
Chris, whos the komatsu dealer over there? Its funny I just got through reading this same post on Dhs Is your Deere dealer Van Lott? Sorry to hear you went with Komatsu but I do hope it gives you good service. Wished you could have gotten to try a 650J. Ya'll must be keepin pretty busy to buy a new dozer. I wish I could say the same.
The komatsu dealer is called Linder, Pretty big company, salesman said the gross about 60- 70 million a year in parts/ equipment sales per year there. The local JD dealer is RW Moore. No doubt the deeres are nice, but new for new, the komatsu was a much better deal. It arrives next thursday, hope to get a few hours on it! And Yes we have plenty of work for it to be doing.
WHat is the better deal? I see next year the d39 is going to have the same conficeration as the new d51. I would like demo one of those "mid cabs" to see what they are like. I look at it this way,Yeah you can see the blade good...but when trying to judge elevation we all know it is much easier to judge the elevation of something standing back away from it the it is to stand on top of it. The "mid cabs" put you closer to looking down on the blade. It is hard for me to develope an opinion though being that I have not operated one. Deere are more $ BUT....They has much better fuel consumption then the komatsu's. A 700J will burn a lil more then a gallon less. At in ~4000 hours at TODAYS!! fuel prices,(we all know it will go up) that is over $16000+ in fuel savings over the Komatsu. Is the Komatsu still a better deal?
Yeah I actually drove the new D51 will waiting on the salesman. Very interesting cab setup with a very good blade view. But this new style machine was about 12% more than the older style. which is about $12,000- $14,000 more for that style machine. Don't get me wrong it was nice, but I just don't know about having the radiator in the back of the machine?? Dealer said that the komatsu should burn around 3-4 Gallons Per Hour under fairly hard pushing, that sound about right? According to the prices of a new 650J LGP the Komatsu was still a way better deal, even with the $16,000 more in fuel expenses over 4,000hrs
GOOD. I am glad you got a good deal on the machine. Keep us posted on how you like it,
did you get the new dozer yet?
Dozer arrives tomorrow! Had a slight delay in getting it sooner as the one in florida had sand tracks? dealer said the undercarriage was made for sand work and would not do very good here. So it was off to texas with the truck to pick up the next one. Dozer arrived at the dealer on friday and will be delivered to our jobsite on monday they completed and entire check out of the machine. I'll be building and fine grading for a 14,000 SQ FT horse arena. Wish me luck!
thats good and dont forget to take lots of pics and vids heck im thinking about getting a used D-41P
man Dirtman2007 you have a really nice dozer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Py52DHUSA
Alright you have a happy dirtman on your hands today! New play toy arrived after lunch. Talk about one sweet grading machine, Strong and powerfull little machine Alright time for some pictures.
More!!! I already had to rip the plastic off the seat, you'd stick to it Alright a couple of video's http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke6KrcYT_Cw Never used a dozer with A/C and a Radio before.... I'm spoiled rotton http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Py52DHUSA
I'd hate to use that machine. I'd be scared to death that I would scratch up the paint job. One good looking piece of iron.
Even if its a Komatsu it looks very nice And i love your work boots:ban
i like komatsu they have a good line of equipment
Dude... you took a picture of yourself in THOSE shoes on a dozer and posted it on HEF?????:crying
Don't dump on his party Hi, Special Tool. Don't dump on his party, Mate. I'll bet he doesn't get a new toy like that every day. Ackshully, with that smile threatening to swallow his ears, he reminds me of a cat full of canaries. Great stuff, Dirtman2007. ENJOY!!!!! That's an order. LOL. And thanks for the photos. Gopher it.
dirtman, are you the witbooi in sandals? I saw an excavata operator in flip flops once, didn't seem to bother him. Komatsu's good, have you seen the new D39 PX? The one with the bubble nose and huge ass cab? Ngiyakuthanda lokho. I like. If i wasn't sitting halfway around the world right now, I' d either buy or hijack the Deere and the Komatsu.
pretty sweet chris
Yeap That's how I roll... What the problem with that? I mean If the dozer track runs over your foot it's not like a boot's going to help much more:beatsme If I'm just running the equipment all day I'll wear flip flops all day, But I always have my boots in the truck if the need arises. Your feet sure do stay cooler:drinkup I wore a little more paint off the blade today. I'm up to 8.5 hrs of dozing! Here's the 14,000 sq ft horse arena I'm building
<--guiltly of the sandal offense as well :thumbsup
I envy you.... still has paint on the tracks...
Toes If i remember last week it was your finger Might be toes this week :beatsme New is nice that is for sure,good luck with your new dozer:usa
Thanks! 4 weeks ago it was my toe, fingers are just fine
sandals or bare feet for me also. I keep boots it the truck to. why not be comfortable. I am ready for the beach while at work.
You guys won't even BELIEVE the irony.... I dropped a SMALL stump on my toe yesterday had my boots on and look at this. The old timers might notice my ****-white ankles from low boots and shorts everyday. PS..... sorry about the porn.
That's a nice looking dozer. To bad I'm still in love with my D5G. As for the sandal issue, if I'm only on a machine; be it my dozer or 160 Volvo, I'm in a pair of Reefs.
Running new dozers is nice. But as soon as you have to buy parts for that thing you are gonna wish you had bought the Deere.
Thats why when you buy new equipment it comes with a warrenty. Ill bet those komatsu parts are cheeper then deere parts.
And I would bet they are not.
And I will agree with you on that.
I find that suprising. I mean im sure your right cause all I own is cat equipment. I just know that guys around here either own cat or komatsu. The deere dealer in town here the guys are idiots. Thats why I could never own a deere. I went in there to get a hydro hose made and they gave it to me with two mail ends on it.:Banghead
Congrats on the dozer Dirtman I do like the smaller Komatsu dozers along with the Deere's and Cat's enjoy it they're only new once! :drinkup
nice equipment good luck!:drinkup
It's been a good dozer. I only wish that i could use it more, it's only been ran about 15 hours this year but I did manage to put 240 hours on in in the last 4 months of last year.
Linder equipment in Dover Florida? Really good people to deal with. Our pc128 came from them. Very sharp little blade.
It came from Texas but it was brought to our Linder dealer in Raleigh, NC
I just drove right through your neck of the woods on my way to florida 2 weeks ago Dirtman, Nc is beautiful. Really nice country.
yeah it's nice once you get out of the city and into the country. weather was probably nice too!:drinkup
i would have suggested another sales site that i just started working for but you already found one. oh well- hows it perform? were looking for a new dozer as well
I would have to second that.