Tony got me to thinkin' about Komatsu. I have run 375a and 475a dozers, 930 E haul trucks, and a pc 660 hoe. The 475 is a heck of a dozer. The 2 375's I ran pushed ok but would beat the snot out of you. One had steering clutches one had joystick control. The 660 was a great hoe, I'll still take a Cat or Deere. But, the 930 E was completley awsome. That is an impressive truck. I think the Cat 793 and 789 handle better in the wet weather, but the Komatsu was superior in any other way. Over all I prefer Caterpillar. But Komatsu certainly has it's perks.... what do you think. By the way Tony, the Komatsu logo is just for you.... for one more day!
I have only been on a couple of Komatsu excavators, mainly a PC400 and a PC1250... the 400 was slow and seemed a bit underpowered, as for the 1250... it was amazing.
"Lets talk Komatsu" But I thought we weren't supposed to use foul language on here. Brian
Ahh thats not foul language.....Hyundai... now thats foul language! I believe "foriegn oil" is foul language in Ft. Crack though eh alco?
erick ive been around cats and komatsu one place had an ols 355a it was a hoss cats had final drive issues. they also had brand new d6r's and i was working on them when they were new they had a old d65ex and bad mouthed it but in the year i worked for them batteries and hoses is all but reg main. i did
rented a d65 and a d7 same time 65 pushed more dirt less fuel like the cat cab better but like the look of the new konatsu
Having been a dealer field mechanic for a few years, I've worked on most of the line. I haven't seen any other excavator ever compare to the PC400-3 & 5 in their days. You could make them run anyway you wanted them to run. That Dash five machine could still run over the top of any machine made today including the Dash eight line. They were the first truly computerized excavators and the first with load sensing hydraulics. The engineering on them was far better than anything built in the US at that time. Having said that, I have to say I haven't thought much of the line since they started putting Cummins engines in the excavators and wheel loaders back in the early nineties. The other thing I have seen on Komatsu is that everthing on any of their machines tend to wear out at the same time. You lose an engine and within months the pump is shot and then a final drive and then a swing reducer and then the other final and on and on. The price of parts is at the point where you can't afford to repair them when so many big ticket items wear out at the same time. At fifteen thousand hours you have nothing left for trade in and you can't afford to fix the thing. The big issue for me on the big dozers was the drive train pods. If you lose a steering clutch you pull the pod which means tipping the cab and removing the whole drive train. Now you might have only one item in that pod that is bad which might only cost a few thousand dollars to fix. But since all the oil is common to all the parts, you now have to go through the whole drive train for tens of thousands of dollars. Companies that run big dozers know it takes big money to keep them running, but all it takes is one swapout of a power pod at fewer than expected hours to knock the machine off the spread sheet. With the price of parts and the poor resale values on used Komatsu equipment I wouldn't recommend buying them unless they get rotated out of the fleet before those high dollar repairs start showing up.
Let's Talk 'Kummagutsa'? Hi, Eric. I have yet to run a 'Kummagutsa' machine that I didn't enjoy running, at least since they progressed beyond the old, OLD D60A's and D80A's that were my first contact with them back in the 1960's. (Where were you then? Did your father even have a twinkle in his eye? LOL.) Having said that, I will also reiterate what I have said here and elsewhere several times in the past. Parts and service for 'Kummagutsa' machines are hard to come by around this part of the world and 'Kummagutsa' machines in general, in my experience at least, seem to have only about 2/3 of the service life to first re-build of a similar Cat machine in the same work and only about 2/3 the life between subsequent re-builds too. John C., many years ago. I worked with a company which owned 5 Kato excavators, 3 'Kummagutsa's' and 3 Cats. One of the Kato's was a 1220 Mark 2 and I would still rate it the smoothest and most powerful excavator that I have ever run on a pound for pound basis. It had NO computers and NO electronics. The same company also had a Kato 1880 Mark 2 and a 'Kummagutsa' PC400-3. Everybody reckoned the 1880 was a slow pile of pus 'cos it spent almost all of the first 6,000 hours of its life running a set of demolition shears at about 1/2 throttle. It didn't matter how much force you used on those shears, the V8 Mitsubishi 'donk' just purred along with the same relaxed sound. They bought the PC400-3 when the 1880 had 2,500 hours up. By the time they first got to work side by side with buckets on both, the PC400-3 had 3,000 hours up and the 1880 had 6,000 hours. Everybody reckoned the PC400-3 was the 'ant's pants', quick stable and powerful. When we put the two side by side on the same job, the Kato 1880 was wearing a slightly bigger bucket, by about 1/3 of a cu. yd. Turned out the Kato 1880 would dig 5 buckets to the PC400's 4 buckets all the time and would often dig 4 buckets to the PC400's 3. The only function on that slow old Kato that the PC400 did faster was walking. In addition, the Kato just sat there and dug dirt while the poor 'Kummagutsa' operator was forever sliding around and having to get himself back into his digging position and he wasn't a mug operator. He was generally reckoned to be better than me, even by me, and I was running the Kato. A large part of the difference was in sheer digging force. The Kato could sock its bucket half bucket depth into the tightly packed topsoil and simply roll it up for a full bucket. The PC400 had to dig only about 8" deep and keep working the bucket and dipper to fill his bucket. And it was still sliding all over the place just doing that. I also got the chance to run the PC400-3 in the same digging as the Kato on another job a couple of months later. I was using the Kato 1880 to load trucks with shale fill straight out of the face, un-ripped and un-shot. I had no trouble keeping 5 semi-tippers on the road. Then I blew a hydraulic hose and they gave me the PC400 for a couple of hours while the hose was repaired. I found myself working my 'fundamental orifice' trying to keep those same 5 semi-tippers on the road on the same haul. I was very pleased to have that 'slow old' Kato back. The PC400 also cost somwhat more than the Kato 1880 in initial purchase price too. In its first 7,000 hours, the Kato had a new radiator, a new planetary gear set for the drive to the hydraulic pumps and routine maintenance. Oh, and a couple of windscreens due to flying debris from the shears. The PC400 only had 4,000 hours on it when I left that company, so no real contest there. Just my 0.02.
There are quite a few Komatsus around here (we have a pretty good dealer) and their excavators are regarded by many to be the best. There are several 200s from -3s to -6s with 15-20,000 hours on them that are still going strong. Their dozers from what I have herd the early ones were a joke, but now they are good. The couple guys that have them say they will push more than a Cat, but they admit that the Cat is faster, so in the end it is a draw.
Hey Deas, The 60's ????:lmao:lmao Never heard of em'. I'm a 75 model myself.
I run Cat and Komatsu dozers. In my experience the komatsus seem to have small niggly problems but the engine and drive train stays good. On the small problems the costs mount up. The cats seem to be very reliable but when they go bang it makes a serious dent in your wallet.
Most of the gear I ever owned was Cat, (stayed there because of parts back-up and service) however we worked alongside Komatsu gear and it worked and looked OK to me. If a Chevy, Ford or Toyota gives a good run, you will buy another. Right..........C ya........Ray
Komatsu makes a strong excavator, however from the parts end they are not even close to cat. Most of the Japanese machines are made to last about 5 years from what one person working for a Komatsu dealer was telling me. Then after that there look at it as junk it and buy new. Really do not see to many older Komatsu machines still running like you would with Cat.
Komatsu Dozer Hello Folks, Since the subject was brought up, I was not sure how many folks would tolerate the Komatsu manufacture. I have a couple of pics of the unit I had purchased several years ago. The purchase was based on supply and demand and price. The problem I have is that this unit is a "Grey" model which at the time I had no clue what that meant. Well now I need some parts and finding the parts are not the same as the american model.. The question I have would anyone know where a dealer in the USA would sell or get access to "Grey" model parts? Thank you, NOB
Actually I don't know of any Komatsu dealers that won't sell you parts. Just give them the serial number and tell them what you need. The Komatsu parts system doesn't care who the machine was made for. All that they cared about was selling another machine. Most of those machines that I worked on came in with a parts book. It was written in Japanese but the numbers are there with the drawings. Good Luck!
Parts Problem Hello John C. I had tried that route and the local dealer and some others had indicated that they could not supply some of the parts. That could be do to the fact the dealers parts guy did not want to research on the cross reference or just plain lasy... With the serial number that is how I had found out it was a grey unit. If any of you may have a good parts guy or dealer you deal with please let me know. I have contacted a few just from browsing on the internet and had sent them the information but it seems a few did not respond back? and when they did they did not respond to my calls via voice mail left for them. I do not mind the shipping charges at all. As I had posted the pics the second one down is where I need the part. The track adjuster is a grease filled ram drive that tensions the tracks. The seal had bursted and causing the tracks to come off, and also the main drive gear the teeth seem to be a little sharp on the points and may need to be replaced "Third pic". I hope I did not highjack this thread maybe I should have started a new thread, but hoping that someone maybe abe to point me in the correct diection. I have purchase the equipment personaly for my farm. I am not a contractor or have a business unless these units have an xray unit attached..LOL I work as a field service engineer on medical xray units and industrial. Thank you, NOB
'60's models. Hi, Eric. I suspected that you would not be of a vintage where you could have much experieince of those earlier Kummagutsa machines. I wouldn't rate them as complete disasters, simply as not being as user-friendly as the Cats of the time. Of all the Kummagutsa machines that I have had anything to do with, it seems to me that their excavators have the best service life. Re Kummagutsa machines out-producing the 'equivalent' sized Cat machines, has anybody looked at the relevant specs hard enough or long enough to notice that the Kummagutsa machines almost always have more horsepower and more weight than the Cats they are usually matched against? 'Nuff said? John C, NightOwlBird's problem is not that the Kummagutsa dealers won't sell him the parts. It is more that they don't have the parts to sell him because the model that he has is not one that Kummagutsa themselves imported and distributed but rather a model that was imported by another party and sold without a dealer network to back them up. The machine itself is a Kummagutsa, just not a model that Kummagutsa supports in the U.S., because they didn't originally import it. That is why the term 'grey market' was coined.
Komatsu Grey Unit Thank you for responding to the my response. I have never seen the word "Kummagusta" I would assume "Komatsu"? I think you hit the nail on the head! Very well put in your response! I am hoping that there maybe a dealer who would be able to help. I am not very good with translation with Japanies lang. and if I can not find a dealer in the US to help then it is going to be a long learning curve to learn Jap... or even be on the same page to explain a part.... Oh I wish I had taken the alternative american lang coarse (Spanish) to learn Jap... instead... Thank you, NOB
I have never ran anything Komatsu in fact I don't know if I have ever been on a job with any of there iron.
The only thing we run is Komatsu.
Re grey market spares. Hi, NOB. If all else fails, it might be worth enquiring here: http://www.komatsu.com/inquiry/index.html That is, I think, the Japanese offices enquiry link. There are only about 3 or 4 countries where English is the only language spoken and Japan does a LOT of trading around the world so I'd guess that there would be somebody there who would speak, read and write English. Give the model and serial number of your machine and any other relevant data and ask if there is a supplier within the U.S. of A.. Hope this helps.
Grey Market Parts Hello Deas Plant, Thanks for the link and I will give it a chance and see what happens. Thank you, NOB
I Like a Komatsu PC160 OVER A 315 Cat have ran both & the experince i have had both the PC160 is better on Fuel than the 315 & seems to be just asfast if not faster than the 315 My granddad had A D57 Komatsu Loader & a 953 Cat loader @ the same time & the D57 WAS faster seemed little more power than the 953 loading Dirt on the dumpwagons & dumpbuckets than the 953 BUT the Cat seemed to last longer undercarriage wise vs the Cat Nothing against Cat we still run them but also run Komatsu as well Just my 2 cents & yall have a goodone Bulldog
Nightowlbird, Try Modern Machinery in Kent, Washington (253 872-3500). Talk to Neil or Roger in parts. If they can't help you then no one can. You do have to have the serial number of the machine if you don't have a part number for what you want. If your sprocket teeth are getting sharp you probably need more than just the sprockets. There is a forum that does some basic training on tracked undercarriages http://www.constructioncentric.com/forum/YaBB.pl Deas, I've worked on Komatsu machines for over twenty years now and haven't had the problems getting parts that you describe. Perhaps the way you talk makes it hard for parts people to understand what you want.
The way I talk. Hi, JohnC. Nope. It can't be the way I talk 'cos I've never spoken to anybody in 'Kummagutsa' spare parts. I've just had the misfortune to be the closest 'other' person to the 'phone when several others found they couldn't get the parts they wanted when they wanted them. I've also seen customers waitng for several days to get a 'Kummagutsa' mechanic/serviceman/fitter out the their busted machine - - - - and I am talking state capital city customers where the client is less than an hour's drive from the dealer and most of that on multi-lane highways with 65 mph speed limits. Please remember that we are talking about different countries and different dealers from the ones that you know. Also JohnC, please understand that I am not knocking the machines themselves, other than the apparent shorter service life of most of them. I have found most of them, and all of the later ones, both easy and comfortable to operate and productive, with the possible exception of the PC400-3 mentioned earlier. They burn diesel, make noise and move dirt easier and quicker than I can with a shovel, so I like 'em.
Undercarriage parts for Komatsu Hello John C. Thanks for the information and the link. I had browsed the other link and looked at the information and this was very informative!!!! Yes, your are correct regarding just the sprocket, I had looked at the pins or track and had noticed that they are not round they are more shaped like a triangle or egg shape. I wonder what that will cost? I will give the folks you had recommended a call. I do have the serial number so I will keep my fingers crossed and hope they are able to get the parts that I need. I will get back with to let you know how the progress goes.. Thank you for responding back with the information that I needed. There a alot of good folks here in this forum. I am glad I had spent the time enrolling to this forum!! Thanks again, NOB
For sprockets,rolls,and tracks here is a link that may help for aftermarket parts. They are a dealer for Berco track parts. Try this........ http://www.gracetrackservice.com/ Good luck:usa
Starting to get a little PO'ed Ya know, I've lurked here for a number of years and only recently have begun posting. There is such an "ongoing anti-Anything Cat" mentality here that it's almost scary. I have a very hard time believing that all of these anti-Komatsu posts are based on truth. Some of you are so dyed in the wool Cat fans that you won't even entertain the thought of giving credit to any other product regardless of how good it may be. It's much like those who refuse to admit that Toyota builds a better car than GM, simply because Toyota is a "Jap" company. The war ended in '45, guys, in case you didn't know. I'm not saying Cat makes a bad product. They are great machines. But based strictly on statistics, Komatsu's do very well when demonstrated against Caterpillars. Komatsu's parts network is every bit as good as Cat's...if you are having trouble with getting parts, it's probably your DEALER, not Komatsu. People who aren't even in the construction business know "CAT"...Know why? Because Cat spends millions on marketing. Want work boots? Buy Cat boots! Want to buy your kid a tonka toy? Go to Walmart and look how many Cat toy machines there are...that's because CAT knows that if they can get a little kid to remember their company from a young age, the "good feeling about the company" can last a lifetime. I myself have been affected by this. The truth of it is this: CAT is a marketing company KOMATSU is an engineering company Say what you want...I expect the flames to start immediately. But I hope you realize how ignorant you sound when you bash a product that you actually know very little about. Ask someone at CAT who they would consider their greatest competitor. The answer is categorically KOMATSU. Today's Komatsu is not the Komatsu it was as recently as 1995. They are agressive and very diligent in their design, and put a lot more thought into the operator in the seat than any other manufacturer out there. Too many armchair critics who have no idea what they are talking about. Don't knock it unless you tried it. Hey, there are cases where a D6T will walk all over a new D65EX...I'm not saying "CAT sucks"...Cat builds great machines. What I am saying is that there is no truth to the general feeling that Cat is better than Komatsu in all arenas. In many cases, operators prefer Komatsu excavators to Cats. Put a new Dash 7 or Dash 8 against a C or D series Cat and I think you'll be quite surprised. :soapbox Flame retardant suit now on. Tony
Suspicion Only??????????? Hi, Tony. Why do I have this strange feeling that you might be ANTI-Anti-Kummagutsa???????????????????????????? It's a 'statistical fact' that 94% of all 'Kummagutsaa ever made are still out on the job. They actually got the other 6% back to the workshop to be repaired. LOL. I acknowledge that the local dealer has almost eveything to do with why parts and service may be hard to come by. So why is 'Kummagutsa' still letting those dealers have the dealership????????????????????
I have a PC 400 LC3 with 13XXX hours on it. I bought it from the original owner 2 years ago. When I got it it had 5 pounds of oil pressure at full throttle. Went to the dealer and got a main & rod set and did the bottom of the engine in my driveway at home. Took a week or so to get them. Need less to say my neighbors don't like me very much. But anyway I have had very good luck with it. It is strong and fast. The last experiences with a cat was a 245 in 1987 and my buddies 420D. I also think Deere makes a better tlb. I tried a WB140 tlb a couple years ago......went back to my 21 year old Deere. That rock in the picture looks smaller than it really is. I had to split it in 3 large pieces and a bunch of little chunks. I loaded it up on my buddies trailer and ran it over the scale............21 ton! Got the weight slip to prove it
Tony, we work very hard here at Heavy Equipment Forums to allow members to post their opinions about many things including their thoughts on different brands of machines. You are welcome to do so as well, but I think you will find that most of the opinions expressed here about different machinery are due to field experience. Your posts will have more credibility if you were to tell us a little about your experiences and how you've come to have the opinion that you do. One additional note, we don't allow flagrant flaming of any machine here, we've pulled posts in the past which were examples of that. Are your opinions based on field time on Komatsu machines or your affiliation with a Komatsu dealership? You've described Caterpillar as a marketing company, and I'll agree that they do a good job of marketing their equipment, but there would be no demand for any Cat products if there had not already been a reputation established of them being a tough reliable machine. How many people do you see looking for Yugo apparel? I myself have very limited experience with a variety of machine manufacturers. I owned a JD 410 TLB and currently own a Cat 248 skid steer. The difference in dealer support for these machines was like night and day. With the Deere I often had to wait 2 weeks for parts, that's if the parts manager remembered to order it. My Cat has proven to be very reliable, and on the two occasions of self inflicted break downs, the parts were in stock. My dealer bends over backwards to get me running even though I'm a small time operator. If another manufacturer can offer me the reliability and dealer support that Cat does at a lower cost, then by all means I'd be interested in looking at what they have to offer, I'd be selling my business short if I didn't. Your company was once somewhat local to me but has since closed that branch. If you are providing the same level of dealer support that H.O. Penn is, then perhaps you should consider marketing that point.
"...Are your opinions based on field time on Komatsu machines or your affiliation with a Komatsu dealership?..." Both, Steve. I was an operating engineer for 17 years before I came to manage a branch for a Komatsu dealer. I have experience on both sides of the joysticks, so to speak. HO Penn is a great organization, and one by which many of the other dealers measure themselves. I dealt with them personally when I was involved in a family business some years back. The have great support and have always been fair. I feel your pain with the JD dealership (were you dealing with them as "KC Canary", or the Nortrax Company). I had similar issues with KCC when trying to get parts for our 792, 490D and 510...this was back in the 80's and early 90's. Believe it or not, the company I now work for used to occupy that same building when they had the IH/Dresser account for the territory. (I was not employed by the company at that time). The Komatsu merger in 1991 changed all that, as you know. I very much appreciate the work you put into this great forum. I hope that in re-reading my original post, you will see that I am not flaming Cat or their dealer network. I am only trying to set the record straight as far as people very blatantly saying that Komatsu has parts distribution and machine reliability and longevity issues, when this is simply not the case. If you bought a Komatsu in 1982 and had parts issues, I can say, "that was then, this is now". The company has come a long way, and I think that many people who spend time in the newer generation Komatsu stuff are pretty impressed. If you're ever heading east on I84 towards Danbury, stop in. I'd be glad to have you kick some tires in the back yard, and put a Komatsu hat on your head (no charge, of course!) Take care and thanks again, Tony
I didn't mean to imply that you were flaming Tony, but just to restate our policy so everyone reading this thread does not get involved in it. I bought my machine from KC Canary, then a few years later was dealing with Nortrax. When I was shopping for my skid steer, I went there 3 times to look at the Deere offerings, the salesman was absent each time and never called me after leaving my number and interest. I have very little experience with Komatsu, one day running an excavator in '90 and occasional use of a payloader at a local "load your own" gravel bank. Both machines did the job they were asked to, but beyond that I can't say anything about them. Many of our members have many years of experience on many different types of machines and from what I've read many have had real issues with Komatsu. This may have been from years past, and from what you've posted it sounds like you agree there were problems in years past, I'm sure you're aware of how hard a bad reputation is to overcome. You're welcome to continue to try and reverse this when you see inaccuracies in Komatsu policy. I was at the Sheriton Monday fro a trade seminar, too bad I didn't know you were on the route I could have stopped by.
Tony, I agree with most of what you have said. I will fully admit I am not the biggest proponent of Komatsu as a general line. That being said, there are a few machine lines they make that I am impressed with. The two that jump instantly to the front of my mind are the loader and excavator lines. I have spent a fair amount of time in both, and the only real complaint I have is that when I get everything set so it's comfortable for me to reach in the WA380's we have at work, I continually hit my right knee off the steering column. I admit, that's a pretty minor complaint. Overall, I would have no issues in running a Komatsu loader all day. With the excavator line, I can find no faults at all. They are strong, fast, have good control....basically, I like 'em. I am not, nor have I ever been a fan of their dozers. I find them to ride rough as a general rule. I also find the layout of the cabs on the machines I have been on was sort of like sitting on an apple crate with the controls piled around you. Not overly comfy....unless you had the seat reclined, feet on the dash and were...ummmm....resting. They accel at that.....very comfy to sleep in. I am not a huge Cat fan for all things. I do like some of their products, but despise some others. One example of the latter is the excavator line. I wouldn't give two thoughts about digging a big hole and burying one. I liked the old 205,215,225,235,245 lineup, but haven't been even remotely impressed with anything they have put out since. I do see issues with Komatsu service life. I have been on a D85 with less than 100 hours on the clock where the trim inside the cab was already rattling very loudly. From both operating and pulling wrenches on them, I find they tend to require a bit more attention than some other brands do as the hours mount up. My biggest issue has been with parts however. Perhaps it was a specific problem with the particular machines, or it may have been the dealer, but just last year, I watched one of our contractors sit idle with two PC1250's and a PC1100 while they waited for hydraulic parts. The PC1100 was the first to get the parts in after a mere 3 weeks. One of the 1250's was down for about 6 weeks, and the other for almost 3 months. I also know the same contractor sold their 825 grader since it was actually spending more time waiting for parts than it was working. That is not an exaggeration either, it was actually down more than it was up. After having said all that, I am not one who will wave a particular manufacturers flag and proclaim them to be the only one that can build machines. I think most make certain groups of products well, and the rest about average...or in some cases below...Cat included. Brian
As for myself a small time dozer contractor based here in Queensland Australia we have no problem with Cat,Komatsu or even Dressta. I have a Cat at the moment which was bought secondhand and we have had no major problems so far.As an operator working for contractors around Qld before i started working for myself I had experiance with D7R's, D85A-21e's and Dressta TD20H's working in a range of jobs,like scrubpulling,building dams,stickraking and many other jobs to do with rural development. I was once working a new Komatsu D85A-21 with about 200 hours on it and there was a problem with one of the heads on the motor.The Komatsu dealer was about 4 hours drive away and once notified of the problem they had a fitter there within 1 day and then a float there within 2 days and it was back at the workshop getting fixed.The machine was returned within a week. The other thing i would like to mention is the price factor,for us here a brand new D7RII is somewhere around $750000!!! A bloody lot more than I paid for my D7HII secondhand. On the other side of the coin a Dressta TD20H is about $420000 setup with a 6000hr powertrain warranty with the parts and service that will match anything Cat can produce in this part of the world,I have seen this with my own eyes having a couple of friends with TD20's. I can here everyone now talking about the resale value of the Dressta,well after about 8000hrs of operation a TD20H is still worth about 200 to 250k in these parts.As for the D7R it will be still worth about 350 to 400k,alot bigger loss!!:Banghead I think Komatsu is similar with price to Cat maybe a little cheaper. The point I am trying to make is that I think Cat is pricing there products out of reach of alot of smaller operators, and that other brands can and will match the performance of Caterpillar.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Billy X! :drinkup
the excavators and artic dumps are made in tenn.
I work for a company with a 95% CAT fleet. In the year I have been there I have got to sit in a ton of different machines. I grew up with Deere and Cat at home so I have always thought thats where it's at. I got out here and found some Komatsu Equipment in this huge company. My first experience was on their D85PX with 1500hrs. First impressions were great.... pushed like a mother and sounded great and a nice cab. Then after 2 hours some shift solenoid on the transmission went. The dozer was down for 2 weeks while the dealership tried to figure out what was up with my baby. They got it fixed and that thing ran like a top afterwards and we were told thats a fluke problem that some of the new 85's have. This particular dozer had that shift solenoid changed 3 times in its 1500hr life. That day we were supposed to be getting a brand new PC400 for a demo... never showed up. The dealership left our float in the yard doing a credit check...... The Cat equipment is different here, it could have a little problem and everyone just says "its a fluke cat is the greatest", but I have noticed there is some nice Komatsu equipment kickin around. Now that I have seen some of their older stuff and newer stuff they make a decent product. And in some cases their quality is a hare better than Cats. To each his own...but John Deere is still king. Well ok maybe not but I grew up with Deere so I am forever required to love their equipment.
Hi, Tony. Firstly, welcome to the forum. Now to address your claim of 'blalantly saying; things about 'Kummagutsa' that are not the case. Quote: "I am only trying to set the record straight as far as people very blatantly saying that Komatsu has parts distribution and machine reliability and longevity issues, when this is simply not the case. If you bought a Komatsu in 1982 and had parts issues, I can say, "that was then, this is now". " Unquote. Your dealership and others with whom you have dealt may provide good service. I don't know about that. What I DO know is that the local 'Kummagutsa' dealer here in South-east Queensland is something less than 'on the ball' a fair bit of the time. I also KNOW that many of the 'Kummagutsa' machines that I work alongside and see working around me seem to go in for re-builds a little more regularly than the Cat machines doing the same or similar work. Having said that, aside from the early 'Kummagutsa' dozers that I ran, the D60A and the D80A, I can't remember running a later 'Kummagutsa' machine that I didn't like, service and longevity issues regardless. Just my 0.02.
Deas When was the last time you ran a Komatsu machine for a long period of time?I beleive the only way to really comment on a machine and brand is to have recent seat time with their products and by seat time I mean a few months or more,that way you really get to know how far they have advanced or gone backwards.
Another point about Australia is that unlike here in North America Komatsu doesn't have dealers. I'm pretty sure that Komatsu Australia is owned by Komatsu itself. I think this changed about 10 years ago so prior to that would likely be different level of support.
Seat time and dealerships Hi, Billy X. Welcome to the forum. I disagree that you need big mobs of seat time in a machine to 'suss' out whether you like it or not and I suspect that you have not READ AND UNDERSTOOD my previous posts. If this is the case, may I suggest that you go back and do so. Nowhere have I ever said that I didn't like running the later model 'Kummagutsa' machines that I have come across. There were some little things that I thought could have been improved. F'rinstance, on the GD825 grader, the control levers were slightly larger than on Cat graders and slightly further apart as well. This made them less user-friendly and intuitive but I learned to live with it. All round, I LIKED the machine 'cos it handled well, pushed like a 'sonuva' and turned sharper than the older Cat 14G that we had on the same site. I also preferred the 'Kummagutsa' arrangement of having the operator sat on the rear section of the grader and the front breaking away when articulating the frame. It makes a LOT more sense to me than having to follow a pointer which may or may not work 'cos you can feel where your back end is in relation to the front. I also faintly suspect that my first contact with 'Kummagutsa' machines may have been before you were born, or at least before you ever got your posterior into a machine. How does 1967 sound? I can assure you that they were a little more 'primitive' in those days, but so were the Cat machines of the era. I am as yet unconvinced that all the whizz-bang electronic gadgetry on today's machines is a REAL improvement. Fault-finding can be a LOT harder, there seem to be a lot more issues with tiny but rather expensive parts keeping machines out of service and you now have to be a computer wizard just to open the fuel tank. Well, not quite but how long before that is the case? There is also the issue, raised elsewhere on this forum, of operators getting adequate exercise in the course of a day's work, which you surely did get when you were running a Cat D8 2U with a cable blade for 10 hours a day. In the last 5 years, I have run a PC140 excavator which I liked, even though I don't believe that excavators have much place in levelling house sites which is what I was doing with it. I have also had about 3 months running a WA600 loader with around 30,000 frame hours on it and I liked that too, in spite of it being a little tired and slow. I have also had my backside in an HD465 dump truck which was under 12 months old and which I found to be a 'bit of a pain' 'cos it was so comfortable that I found myself going to sleep a bit while being loaded. LOL. Hi, Wulf. I'm pretty sure that you are right about the 'Kummagutsa' organisation in Australia but maybe a little off with your estimate of when it changed. I seem to remember that it changed back in the late 1970's or early 1980's, around the time that the D455A dozers hit the market or maybe just before that. I just used the term 'dealer' for convenience sake.
OK, Deas, but... Deas, I've read many of your well informed posts over the years, and believe me, I very much respect your opinion. However, what's with the "Kummagutsa" reference all the time? It seems like you have a problem even saying the word "Komatsu". What exactly does "Kummagutsa" mean, and why do you use that word over and over? By using that word in nearly every one of your posts where Komatsu is mentioned, it sems that you intend to demean the product at every opportunity. If I were to constantly refer to Caterpillar as "Crawlapillar" ( a seemingly innocuous word, right?), I'm certain that people on the board would find fault with it and question it, even if, as I know to be true, Caterpillar is a fine product. Given your very high regard and well deserved level of respect on this forum:notworthy, maybe I'm just holding you to a higher level of "do the right thing" than I would someone else. If "Joe Schmo" says that "Acme" is a bad product, people don't give it much thought. If your Grand Daddy says "Acme" is a bad product, you tend to believe him even if he's wrong. See what I'm saying? Of course, I mean no disrespect, Deas. I hope you don't take any of this offensively. I'm only asking why the "Kummagutsa" reference? It's certainly not easier to type than "K-o-m-a-t-s-u", right? Have a good one, Tony
Deas, I allways thought that the "Kummagutsa" term showed a little biased, even if it's not meant, it kind of comes over that way. On another note, I would take offence at the Grandad description, I'm only 3 years behind you myself!!!
"Kummagutsa"???????????????? Hi, Tony. You are a comparative newcomer to this forum and so would not be likely to have seen my previous explanation of my use of this pseudonym. It is a slang name that I picked up way back when the company's products weren't quite the quality they are today. I have stated my views on the products pretty clearly in the past and again in this thread. If people can't or won't get past my use of a slang name and take my statements as being my honest opinions about those products, so be it. I have no plans for change to accomodate people who wish to read while wearing 'blinders'. You can call Caterpillar whatever you like. It is highly unlikely that you will change MY opinion of their products, their service and parts back-up or their marketing machine. Quote from your first post in this thread: "The truth of it is this: CAT is a marketing company KOMATSU is an engineering company" Unquote. For mine, both of the above statements are true - - - as far as they go. If in saying this, you are inferring that Caterpillar is not an engineering company and 'Kummagutsa' is not a marketing company, then I'd suggest that you are not stating the whole story. Caterpillar has consistently over-engineered its products in relation to their power for almost their entire existence. That has been a point that many competitors have used against them over the years. Those competitors have built machines with higher power-to-weight ratios and claimed higher efficiency. Most of them have not been able to demonstrate superior reliability and equivalent service life. 'Kummagutsa' has probably come closer than most to achieving this. Caterpillar has also been fairly industrious in its testing programs for a very long time now - not saying that 'Kummagutsa' isn't. Not only do Cat have their own proving grounds but they also send new products and models out to selected users for on-the-job testing in ways that Cat testers and engineers would have difficulty duplicating. I suspect that your favourite manufacturer does likewise. Quote: "If "Joe Schmo" says that "Acme" is a bad product, people don't give it much thought. If your Grand Daddy says "Acme" is a bad product, you tend to believe him even if he's wrong. See what I'm saying?" Unquote. I beg to differ, at least in my own case. Regardless of who said or posted what, I have this rather odd habit of making up my own mind about most things. I suspect that there might be a few other people on this forum who take a similar approach to life and what they see and hear. Hoping this answers some of your concerns.
With no reference one way or the other to any specific brand of machine, or their inherent qualities, or lack of, and only in reference to Deas' preference for a modified form of Brand K's name, I offer the following commentary: For those who may have missed Deas' explanation when he first offerd it, it can be found here: For Deas... The way I read the whole of Tony's comments above, he is likening you to the Grand Daddy in the example, and in so doing, is suggesting that others may be making up their minds because they're influenced by what you have to say--either what you say directly, (which as we all recognize, is exactly what you think, and is always seemingly well thought out and backed up by your first hand experience), or what you imply in deliberately bastardizing the company name. Sometimes formally expressed opinion doesn't carry the same weight that subtle implication does. While it's tough to argue with the former, the latter might leave the casual reader with the impression that you have a bias, which the casual reader may, or may not, accept as valid, without bothering to read whether there's any well-reasoned thought on which that bias may be based.
Would you sign a big contract???????????? Hi, Digger 242j. You make some valid points - - - as usual. I have a whole one question to ask in reply: "Would you or anybody else sign a contract to build a new road or building worth several hundred thousand dollars without reading the fine print?" For mine, anybody who doesn't read and understand the 'fine print' of any post here or on any other forum is only short-changing themselves. I find that the great majority of posters are about giving the best information that they can but that only works if the reader reads the posts instead of making assumptions from headlines. Nuff said.
I have looked at your earlier posts Deas,and found them very much the same as the others I have come across. The only thing I wanted out of the last post of mine was for you to say something positive about Komatsu. Needless to say I have I have a smile on my face. They are not so bad afterall. P.s Thanks for the welcome and to you too countryboy.
Something Good About 'Kummagutsa'. Hi, Billy X. If you look back through my previous posts regarding 'Kummagutsa' and its products, I believe you will find that I have consistently said that I mostly enjoyed operating these products. The only things I have consistently said I thought could do with a little( ? ) attention have been the level of service and spare parts support and the apparently shorter service life to first rebuilds and between subsequent rebuilds. Most of the ones I have operated have consistently out-produced their competition - with one or two exceptions - but they are also almost always slightly heavier and more powerful than the competition too, especially among the dozers and graders that I have run. Happy now? LOL.
Thanks, Digger Digger,Thanks for helping in clarifying my position. You nailed it. Deas, again, I meant no offense or "pot stirring" in my original post. Of course, we are all allowed our opinions, (and you know what they say about opinions!). And, yes, the Grand Dad comment was meant purely as a compliment. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Best regards, Tony
I take it your pointing out that nice Komatsu haul truck in your Avatar. I don't think you would come on here whining about people bad mouthing Komatsu and do the same thing to Cat.
Never, Lashlander, never... The avatar is actually a picture of from when Cat was testing their version of the turntable levelling device, similar to what was found on old Drott and Case excavators. Hey, no harm, no foul...you're probably right though...I should change it. Regards, Tony
Done.
You didn't need to change it on my account. I don't usually join in on the bashing certain brands on equipment type discussions. Your avatar just struck me funny. I don't think anyone would argue that Cats venture into large mining shovels was anything but a miserable failure.
On the subject of offense. Hi, Tony. No offense taken. I'm pretty thick-skinned and I've been insulted by experts so most people these days are wasting their time. LOL. On the subject of sharing experiences, I can't see a lot of sense in spending 40-odd years gathering said experiences only to take it all to the grave with me. Can you?
This was brand spankin new in 1995. This was the stuff back then. Blew the engine 2 years ago. Left it for dead.
at what point can u bring them back? how many hours is to many?
We have some D-10 N's with close to 60,000 hours. They are great. We have some stuff with 24K that is junk. :beatsme
I just revieved a new 51 but due to the weather not ran it yet anything I need to look out for?
Mudslinger, It's what you won't have to look out for! The visibility on this machine is unbelievable, better than any comparably sized dozer. Have fun with it. Tony
Mudslinger, when you do get to work with the 51 please let us know what you think of it, the negative and the positive.
Who's right Having been involved with construction equipment all my life as a mechamic, then selling equipment I have formed a few opions about equipment 1, its dealer support 2, the finance package 3, equipment availablity These three points were brought home to me a few years ago by a friend who was a equipment superintendent for a large construction company on the big dig project in mass. I was selling Deere equipment at the time, we both agreed on the quality of the big 3 brands of equipment(cat, deere,komatsu) and the dealers in the Boston market. Then he brought up this point! Your job is on the line as a equipment super, you get a call you need six, 5yd loaders at (the pier) tommorow morning. Who are you going to call? Could I supply him that many loaders on a short notice, no could the Km dealer, no. But cat could and did. Its the total package on the equipment that makes or brakes it. Just a opion.
last year i got the chance to run a new wa 500-6. any of you guys get the chance yet? what did ya think?
Lets talk Komatsu Just found this site and Love it!!!!! Been running equipment all my life, and finally some people to talk to other than the people I work with!!!! So far I love it.. YES you can see everything!!!! Thought it would be hard to replace my 41 but I believe it has been replaced!!! If you guys here of any glitches, I want to know.
Mechanic Work The only reason we can afford to own Komatsu is to do all of the mechanic work on them ourselves. Our Komatsu dealership has changed from SMA to Shanahan Equipment and their prices have gotten even worse. I have a few good sources for Komatsu parts if anyone ever needs them. Keep on pushin'!!!:usa
No kidding...are you Ehbar in Danbury? Your parts guy had rubber shoes for my 128UU in 2 days.:drinkup
Special Tool, Yes, you are correct. I am the branch manager. I'm glad our parts guys were able to help you, and quickly, nonetheless! Stop by any time and say hello. Have a great day, Tony
I own a Kumagutsa. Nice machine, good day at the office, does the same work as the equivalant Cat on a lot less fuel. Parts always seem to be "21 days from Japan". Unless it's an excvator I won't buy another which is a shame because I do like them. I sometimes hook the Kumagutsa up to a old LeTurnover drawn scoop...
Re Funny you should mention that My Komatsu experience is the one I own, a couple of 65's, a 155 series 1 I didn't like, a couple of 155 dash 2's I really liked, a 355, a 375 (4 speed and a lock up converter - I loved it), a few excavators in the 15 - 30 ton classes spread from dash 3's to a dash 8, and a WS16 scraper. As an excavator I think they're building arguably the best on the market, Hitachi might be tougher, Kobelco might outperform them, Sumitomo are probably the best bang for your buck, but averaging them out Komatsu b the king. However I am aware of one dash 8 fitted with toggle switches because the touchpad kept buggering up, and another that was down 14 days waiting for parts on a job with a deadline and at 8 months old. I won't even mention the Cat/ Mitsubishi product because they last forever - haven't got enough power to hurt themselves. The scraper was a scraper. I hate 'em all. But it was reliably pounding my kidneys and made money doing it. Dozers are my baby. I haven't got much experience on any of the newer stuff - I started off on my own 11 years ago and so have been restricted to play time only. The exception be a 6R I bought two years ago. I like the Komatsu product. I think that averaging out pros and cons they are BUILDING a superior product. For fuel efficiency against a similar Cat they win hands down, mechaniclly they're as good or better (and I'm the fitter here so I can have that opinion) , the electrics can be a bitch but no- one is building a dozer yet that has an electrical / computer system designed to handle years of dust and vibration. Cat is in my opinion riding on it's reputation from the good old days. BUT I am looking to upgrade my Komatsu. I've had this one since 97. It's been good, made me money, what it's saved me in fuel over the competition adds up. It won't be a Komatsu. I really have the ***** with "21 days from Japan" on parts. For me to purchase a low hours late model machine to send it out on jobs where a high level of availibility will make me or break me I can't risk a Kummagutsa. Even a new one with warranty. I find it dissapointing that if I am prepared to pay the freight Cat can send me any part for any machine landed at the nearest international airport in 48 hours or less. What 21 days from Japan tells me is "we don't have any on hand, and it takes a few days to machine one up". I can't run a business like that. And as stated the shame of it is that if they got off their arses and backed up the machines at a level with Cat I'd buy one. And because I know some people are going to be upset by this, I want to state that opinions are like arseholes - everyone's got one and most of them stink. Don't take the odor of mine personally.
for my two cents a dealer has the power to make or break a brand,the kommie dealer here is second to none, great parts service and excellent fittters with state of the art equipment.Now having said that Cat are not far behind but are twice as expensive, for myself,well if its got sticks I use it ,from an Ackerman to a XCG,only once did I refuse to operate a piece of plant and that was a Hitachi that had been vandalised.I personally own a JCB JS130, which is based on a Summitomo sh120,but if I had the urge to change it would be a Volvo , a while back we put a volvo cat and kommmie (of similar size) loading dumpers (Volvo & Cat) the dumpers rotated to each excavator and kept a record of the fill loaded ,every hour the excavators drivers changed ,swapping around between each excavator.At the end of the shift we were surprised at the results, the most productive excavator was the Volvo loading a dumper more per hour per operator and they also have an excellent back up service :IMO:soapbox stock
Reply to old thread but I am talking about Komatsu and I can't start a new thread yet. I am looking for a used Komatsu excavator. I already have a PC55 and need a bigger machine. Dealer relationship is good and they are very capable as well as reasonable. I have never purchased a used machine before so this is new territory. The machine I have located is a PC150-6, Year 2000, 5800 hours on it. Original paint and cosmetically good. Looks like its been fairly well taken care of. Second owner has had about 2 years and says it was from a pipe laying company. He indicated that one boom cylinder is wet or slobbering. Pics confirm that to be true. Its not a gusher as far as I can tell. Work is now slow for this owner and he needs to get rid of a payment so I suspect that is the reason it was not repaired immediately....just not enough funds. Obviously that means a repair which I can accept and understand. The bigger concern is contamination of the hydraulic fluid and damage to components. A new pump on one of these is spendy. Would this leaking cylinder give you much more experienced owner/operators concern over the remaining life of the machine and the pump/hydraulic system? Is that a sufficient reason to pass? I do intend to have the dealer provide an inspection on the machine once I look at it myself. Should I just go ahead if purchasing and replace the gallons and gallons of hydraulic fluid? Thanks for all the replies.
Have the dealer take a hydraulic fluid sample. A fluid sample can tell you whats going on in the system.
Usually one leaking boom cylinder isn't much of an indication of a system wide problem with the machine. I usually only become concerned when I see both boom cylinders and maybe the stick cylinder slobbering. Sometimes it can indicate overheating hydraulics and possibly engine coolant as the same air is pulled through both radiators to cool both systems. An oil sample of the engine and hydraulics might give you clues to condition but many times add more confusion that anything. A twelve year old machine would normally acquire more than a thousand hours a year in normal construction work which would make me leery of the published hour meter reading. If it does have those hours on it, the hydraulic oil should have been changed at least twice. If not, a sample would only show dirty oil that would be taken care of by an oil and filter change. It used to be the key to oil samples on Komatsu hydraulic systems was brass or bronze in the oil. A lot usually meant a piston and barrel or slipper foot issue in the pump or motors. I generally look for hydraulic hoses bleeding through the outer covers for an indication of system age and clues to operating temperatures. I'll check boom up cycle times and see if the machine will walk straight and turns easily. I'd check for fault codes on the monitor and shift through all the modes. The last item is a check of the condition of the undercarriage. You can have a dealer check the machine out but that will probably set you back a little over a grand for the field wrench and his travel plus expenses. Repacking a boom cylinder is no problem if you have the bench that can take the nut off the rod. If you don't have that you will have to take it to a shop. In my neck of the woods it will run you around a grand with your time to pull the cylinder and the shop to do the packing. Good Luck!
Hey fellas just to add my 2 penneth. Our family company has run over 50 pieces of Komatsu equipment for the last 12 years from d39 to D85 had there adts and excavators right up to PC 450 size. My opinion is there excavators are good strong reliable not smooth on hydraulics but fast and powerful. Dozers are good pushers better than Cat IMO but in no way any where near as good. We try run our equipment until it has 12-15k hrs but with komatsu dozers this is a big ask we find they have had enough at 8-9k. Cats on the other hand can go to 12-15 k without any major component failure in the main and when it's time for a rebuild they are so good to work on its no big deal. Komatsu are a nightmare to work on all major components are basically sat in a big bath tub. Ground clearance is another issue with komatsu flat track design Cat high drives are great here in the uk where its always raining and boggy ground no dragging of the underbelly and transmition over heat problems. This is without the resale value issues. Thanks Steve
Komatsu from Japan is differente than made in Germany....
I prefer to respond to Deas Plant's posts by skipping over them!
Well Deas has been gone for a while so just keep skipping by his old posts.