On our news services over the last few weeks there have been noted accidents with Small contractors on the highways during rush hour periods. This morning was no exception, three in an hour in the rain this morning. In looking at these most were light pickups, one or two were 3/4 or full ton but as with this morning was a six lug half ton, pulling a Pintle Hitch bumper pull tri axle and a Mini Ex(Unidentifiable size). Both were inverted, the mini laying off the remnant of the trailer, trailer had a SINGLE axle with brakes on it(was exposed to see, the report stated the driver had locked the truck down was in a slide trailer wheels still rolling when slid off the highway. MO SHP report noted driver slightly injured, multiple citations for improper equipment and failure to satisfactorily inspect as well identify failed unsafe equipment. Small plumbing company, owner's personal truck. Seems this is getting out of hand around here, Non CDL and yet should have proper equipment, sneaking around and or cheating requirements by using too light too small equipment.
I see it here all the time in Texas. If I can see these obvious violations then I know that the local pd can to. It gets overlooked and put on the shoulders of our state troopers. Which is a unfair burden to them. The local pd should be getting these trucks off the road rather than ticketing the violators after they caused an accident with their junk. That's my two cents.
Pa has started to crack down on these super truckers. Especially if there is company lettering on the doors. I saw a 3/4 ton truck with a landscape trailer hauling weed eaters and lawn mowers and the guys in black were giving them the once over. I just wish the overloaded personal trucks would get some more attention.
I had this argument at the Nuke I worked, our company trucks, logo on the sides, carrying materials and men for working yet required NO special license(I still had my Class A). Was per interpretation of Legal that being as were less than GVW and license weight below 12,000BL not required. A Mechanic noted all the trucks had Class three hitches, the next step was welding a cross bolt to prevent use. Is my personal opinion that once a logo goes on the door other than a personal name tag or a Farm indicator the machine just became a CMV and as such required a CDL even if just a Class C.
In Washington State which, complies to federal law, a CDL is requires when GVW is over 26,000 pounds. There is some confusion on whether that means in total with trailers. I still don't understand how you can have a 3/4 ton pickup with a GVW of 8,000 being able to handle that much on the truck plus a 5,000 pound loaded trailer and still be legal for use on a highway. I also can't see how anyone driving a bus is required to have a CDL while a seventy year old man can go buy a 45 foot RV and drive down the road towing a car behind and not needing anything to prove competence.
John C you evidently have not seen the doubles sets behind the RVs we get around here!! Tag Pusher Class A diesel 40+ foot RV, tow behind car as the RV is just too big to maneuver in towns and behind that the 18-22' Fish and Ski type boat or multiple Wave Runners or Jet Boat. Biggest seen to date was a converted Prevost Bus(50+ feet) with the noted accoutrements All Okie Dokie on a RV plate and conventional driver license.
All of the statements above are right as rain. But people will always push the limits when it comes to spending bucks to do it right or hiring it done correctly. 80% of the time they will take the risk. The main problem is fines really are not steep enough. Insecure load should be $2,500 bucks across the board. Not enough brakes and axles $3,500 across the board. Not enough tire for load $1,500. And last but not least {endangering the lives of others} $10,000 bucks across the board in every state. John C. do you remember back some 18 years ago the incident involving the 80 year old couple that just picked up their new diesel pusher in Poulsbo, Wa. They ran the first red light killing one individual, he had never driven anything that big and knew nothing about air brakes.
This is one of the many reasons our commercial auto policy is damn near the same amount as our GL, something I have never experienced in 25+ years of business. The flip side is the unintended consequences of the CDL law. For example - 2018 F350 SRW has a GVW of 11.5K, hook a 14K skid steer trailer behind and everything is hunky dory in the eyes fo the law here in Alabama which follows the bare minimum Federal CDL law. Now a 2018 F350 DRW has a GVW around 14K, hook the same 14K skid steer trailer behind it and BAM - class A CDL. Now which version is safer on the road? We all know the answer but it's not what the law is. The above example is why companies put unsafe combinations together in order to be below the CDL weight requirements. Fines are a reactionary response that does have some limited success but won't solve the problem. I know it sounds cheesy but part of the answer is more education on the issue. I don't know how the education should or could be implemented but it's one place to start. Just my $.02.
Here in British Columbia, we have all kinds of laws and regs. Here is a link, much easier than trying to write it out. https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/types-licences/Pages/Licence-classes-and-types.aspx If the vehicle has air, you need the endorsement. If you are pulling a heavy trailer, you need the endorsement If you are pulling a heavy RV trailer, there is an endorsement for that The commercial guys will get checked during random vehicle check. So Grandpa must have his air endorsement. Or If Grandpa decides to pull that 40 foot 5th wheel behind him, he must have that endorsement also. But I dare you to go to one of our RV lots and have the salesman tell you that. Where I live we don't have scales, closest one is about 120 km away (70 miles roughly) so you will see lots of stupid things going on. Not so much on the big guys, but more like what DMiller posted about. The commercial vehicle inspector is mobile in our parts but he has to catch these looney toons that think they can pull a mini ex behind a toyota pickup ( I'm exaggerating here), but you know what I mean. The problem is, unless you get pulled over or are involved in an accident, NO ONE ever asks if you have the proper endorsement.
I completely disagree with your approach. No harm has been committed. If something happens, there are laws on the books to handle what happens, from reckless operation, destruction of personal property, to negligent homicide (if it comes to that). More laws and fines are not the answer.
Well if you take that approach then it is totally ok to drive and drink, talk on a cell phone and text or read a newspaper and drink your coffee all while driving as long as no harm has been committed. The only thing people understand is getting hit in the pocket book, they can hardly take a breath without thinking about their money. It's probably a damn good thing I'm not a WSP DOT, I would have to wear a bullet proof vest to bed.
CDL rating ….. That stand for Cant Drive Loaded ?
I agree with the fines approach and education. It should work for both the RV people and the CDL drivers. Where are my rights when one of these idiots running down the road hits me or someone in my family? What is my recourse when my property is damaged or destroyed. The guilty parties insurance sure isn't going to do me any good. They were driving an illegal load which generally isn't insurable. In the mean time I'm now paying insurance for me and the nut with the load because my insurance has to pay a claim they rightly aren't a party to.
It's crazy scary when you realize what's on the road with your wife and kids land scapers and want to be contractors seem to be the worst it's like the guys that haul backhoes on a 1 ton dually it's right at the safe limits in good conditions Mid June is when it gets really stupid around here it gets hot and all those fancy lifted truck tires eont take the weight truck shop is right put big fines on it seems to work well with off road fuel in on road vehicles
The one that scares the hell out of me is the big arse skidsteer or mini ex in a bumper pull dump trailer......you know damn well it isn't chained down. Ed
To switch gears a little on the CDL thing. Since electronic logs came into effect the over the highway rig accident ratio has climbed. In the shop we noticed an up-tic in brake shoe wear. Drivers are pushing it to keep appointed load/ unload times. And they don't want to run out of hours one our from home and have to take ten off or even do a 36 reset. The feds don't want to admit that e-logs are causing drivers to push past the limits and cause a safety issues.
I wondered about that. Know a guy who drive for a small freight hauling company and have heard him talking to his wife about not being sure if he could get the last 30 or 40 miles home before the truck made him stop for the day! Maybe that is one reason why the one time I was at their small one bay shop they had a couple pallets of relined shoes sitting there?
Did not dawn on me until you noted the brakes abuse, drivers pushing harder, local hauling company on e-logs is doing the same, LOADS of brakes and drums/rotors sitting in their shop both old and new. Will have to ask next time in there. Maybe it is just my mind considering but have been a great deal of semi trailer fires in the news recently, all started off over heated brakes by the reports, coincidence? And the lumber hauler that lost brakes in CO exceeding responsible speed down hill?
Be careful about driving behind box trucks. I have seen on more than one occasion people loading forklifts into them and tying the unit down with 1" ratchet straps. Why even bother that strap isn't even going to begin keeping that load secure. It's crazy what people think is safe.
Yes, it should be. Don't punish people for things they have not done (damaged someone else either physically or financially).
So you are saying I should feel free to drive past a stopped school while downing a pint of JD and texting and as long as I don't kill any kids no one should be upset or call the cops one me? Cops should wait till the kid is under my front tires before hassling me?
Yes then you can do 20+ years in prison for aggravated battery or negligent homicide. At that point you HAVE committed a crime. I am sick and tired of the nanny state. Some people are better drivers after a beer than others are perfectly sober. Some people can drive responsibly with a slightly overloaded vehicle while others are more dangerous with a 'legal' one. Punish the crime, not the possibilities!
So no stop signs or traffic lights. No speed limits and you can drive either way on either side of the road or on a one way street or even on the sidewalk or for that matter walk in the middle of the freeway. I thought the rules were in place to help prevent chaos in a society. Silly me. d.d.
Rules of the road are fine. We all need to know what we are supposed to do. How they are enforced is where I have issues.
Fair point. I've been many times to a lot of places where they have traffic like that. India Vietnam Cambodia Indonesia China to name a few. It quite amazing the way the traffic just flows around each other. I guess it mostly comes down to having a little respect for other road users and it not being just about me, me/ me. Unfortunately I don't think North american people are polite enough to each other to be able to function in that kind of a system. I think we (myself included) would end up road kill quick smart. Regards d.d.
I agree. We need roundabouts.
We have one in my little town. Best thing since sliced bread. Regards d.d.
We have laws because people cannot police them selves, give an inch take a mile. Laws are passed in most cases for a very good reason. But the main problem with this latest discussion is that a drivers licence is a privilege not a right no mater what state you live in. If rules of the road are broken you suffer the consequences. I follow the rules and law enforcement doesn't bother me. It's like taking a pee test, if your not a drug user you have nothing to worry about. With as many people as there are on our highways at any given second-Crap or **** is happening as I write this x amount of injury an fatal wrecks are in progress. And out of those 50 plus percent couldn't pass a blood test. Out of those are victims who were headed home to their families and they are not going home tonight because of some selfish son of a b!tch that couldn't abide the law. Because of his me me me attitude. My favorite thing I say to to myself when I see selfish *** holes on the road {excuse the rest of us for driving on your highway}. I operated a tow truck years ago and I still do for the company I work for. I got out of bed at midnight too many times to go clean up a fatality [ alcohol/drug related or not} I have always found it easy for others to gripe about things they have never seen. Well here's one for you. I got a call at 1:00 a.m. on a Tuesday morning in 1988 { dates like this you don't forget}. I arrived to a fatality one car involved accident. One of the most grizzly things a person could ever witness. A sedan on the side of I-90 with a women setting in the drivers seat dead, impaled by a 1 1/2" diameter steel pipe right through the bottom of the car and through the seat. The pipe was protruding from her neck. The WSP put out a stop every scrap truck headed to Fife bulletin. WSP had found eastward on I-90 other debris they believed fell off a scrap hauler. Insecure load cost that woman her life, her husband and children lost a wife and mother because of careless selfish behavior of another.
So let me get this straight. As long as when I speed past the stopped school bus drunk just as kids are getting off I miss him and his little sister by six inches you are fine with that? And you feel the bus driver reporting it to the police to get me arrested is an intrusion on my freedom by "the nanny state"? No one got hurt so who gives a ****?
Seems some here think that it is just fine to shoot down a freeway with crap falling on the road. The next car coming along should be paying attention and not get hit by the scrap? I could not bring my self to click on "Like" for that post of yours. I can not imagine how I would be able to handle a sight like that.
Reckless endangerment comes to mind. I am just trying to relay my view that personal responsibility will always work better than the nanny state route. Pulling out a worst case scenario is a cop out. It is like saying no one should be able to drive cars because one person was irresponsible with one. If no one driving would save just one child's life...
I get what ianjoub is saying . Plenty of laws on the books to cover any situation . No need for any more . Enforce existing laws . I keep telling Andy we need to go after those " Truckers " exceeding the speed limit before Turner's Grade …..
Freedom isn't free. If you haven't violated anyone's Constitutional rights, you have committed no crime. This is how our Founding Fathers thought. I think the price of liberty is worth paying. The other road leads to tyranny.
Bowing out this is turning political and it is not about politics. And a reminder for those who want to turn it political-politics and religion are not allowed on HEF.
I agree and this is a long the line of what I was talking about fines are reactionary and do not completely solve the problem. Sure fines usually solve the issue with the individual receiving them but word of mouth only goes so far. My point is fines and regulations only do so much to change human behavior. Take for instance OSHA regulations. Sure OSHA writes millions in fines every year however I think the construction industry itself has done way more to improve job site safety on its own, not necessarily in reaction to not wanting to get fines. In the commercial market we have an up to date safety policy, MSDS and various safety training certifications from trenching/excavating through OSHA 30. We didn't go through all of this because we were afraid of an OSHA violation, rather these are basic requirements to work in the market segment. I can say it has made us a better, safer company. It starts with a government regulation but successful implementation is not achieved through fines and punishment alone. So far this is a good conversation about personal responsibility vs government regulation that has not crossed the political/religious line yet..
Seems like the rules up here make a little more sense. To me they do anyways.
I got dismissed from a potential jury for espousing what you have said here. Not a popular opinion but necessary nonetheless. The alternative is creeping tyranny. There needs to be some form of injury before a person is deprived of life, liberty or property. Malum prohibitum vs malum in se and all that. Law needs to be made simple instead of this convoluted mess we have now, which does not work.
Let's take this a little different direction. Last week or so NASA published that they lost some space craft because a supplier deliberately used defective material for a component of the craft. Is that a civil infraction of a criminal infraction. What is the difference between that and Joe Blow driving down the road in an overloaded and structurally deficient truck and trailer? Is that a civil or a criminal infraction?
To me the current DOT driving rules are ridiculous. The way it is set up if you have a multiple day run and want to drive the maximum time allowed you are constantly forcing your body to adjust from day to night. You body adjusts to a routine, why not use it. I have always said that just e-file your 12 hours out of the day that you want to drive and that is your schedule. Simple and I think much safer. If you are a night person go that route, if day or evening go that way. No driver logs would be needed.
Both. It would be civil to the company and it would be a criminal charge to the person whom was responsible for passing on the "KNOWN" deficiency. I know of two cases, both widely publicized, a couple years apart, by the safety department of the company I retired from. In one case a superintendent told the crew to get the pipe in and then was in the trench himself with no shoring multiple times before it collapsed killing one of his crew. In the other case a iron worker boss repeatedly walked out on the structural steel with out utilizing's 100% tie off as required. One of his workers died in a fall. Both crew bosses had been trained by the companies in the safety requirements. In both cases the company was found civilly liable and the person in charge whom voluntarily did not enforce the safety rules was found criminally liable. Both these cases resulted in five year jail sentences. A unsafe truck can lead to criminal charges to the driver and civil charges to the owner if that vehicle injured or killed another person.
A contractor/supplier failed to supply a product as he promised to. Remedy the deficiency plus damages. The damages because the spacecraft was lost. If the discrepancy was discovered beforehand then no damages except wasted time replacing it. The guy with the truck on the road, the difficulty arises because it is public space. The man should not have to give up his rights to enter upon a public space. If he makes it through OK, then no one harmed. If someone or something is damaged then he has to pay.
Two space craft were lost which was public money. It was criminal conduct as it was the definition of fraud. For what ever reason the feds were only going after a portion of the loss on each craft when they should be going after the entire loss. That would be the civil part of it. Birken what you described already exists. If the person makes it through without being caught then no one is harmed. The behavior is reinforced! If he makes it through and is caught, the only one harmed is himself. He is going to pay a tax for doing something stupid! The real issue though is if he causes damage to me, I have to pay a price for doing things the right way!
Civil infraction until he causes a loss to another person. It then becomes criminal.
I think it all boils down to if people used common sense then they would have tied there load properly or had a vehicle that could handle the trailer they are pulling only in a perfect world tho Unfortunately there is no right answer and going out on the road you take the risk of sharing it with people that are not all tooled up or prepared to be on the road with you and as long as people in general are involved the risk will be there There is no reasonable way to force a rule onto anyone that doesn't deem it important till they get caught usually after an accident what the penalty for driving a CMV without a cdl but a local company just got popped here last week they had 1 cdl driver for the 4 trucks that were on the road every day it's just stupid they lost there dot number so now they changed there company name and are at it again they just dont care
And that goes back to Truck Shops initial post on the subject. The stupid tax needs to be onerous. The issue goes back to state levels because when the people are damaged to the point that they can no longer provide for themselves, the costs go back to the federal and state governments in the form of Medicare and Medicaid. It always happens that way because most of those pirating loads can't afford to do it the right way and most don't carry enough or any insurance to cover their behavior. I understand all the points made here about pirating loads and not getting caught and brushing it off when they do get caught.
That is the big point here. Most are out for the coin and don't care as they managed to get away with it for so long, only the Cat has a maximum amount of lives and chances, bound to hit the Lottery and win the fur lined pee pot the hard way.
All the talk about laws and infractions on this thread and every one of you missed the point. No matter if you are hauling short distance under 100 miles as the crow flies or OTR. Any body who gets behind the wheel has to fill out a daily drivers inspection report and has to be kept on file in the place of business for state and federal audit. When you sign that report as the driver you assume all responsibility for that vehicle. And any vehicle no mater what GVW that is used in any manner for commercial use hauling privet or for profit has to follow Federal DOT guidelines. Any defects with vehicle or how vehicle is loaded falls directly on the driver if he or she knowingly falsifies and ok's the vehicle for use. Falsifying a log book is a State and Federal criminal offence.
Let the buyer beware. You can't trust anybody. Even NASA vendors. The buyer needs to have their inspector. If they detected it after a spacecraft exploded they surely could have detected it before.
I want to say with the NASA space craft analogy it won't go civil or criminal . It's neither as so many people signed off on the legal waiver's before hand understanding the risk involved . Good question John C .
5 years is pretty extreme considering that repeat rapists and killers often get less. In the old days no tie-off was required at all. I worked dangerous jobs much of my life and got paid extra for it. I do not wish to live a risk free life, just use good judgement and mitigate those risks. If I wanted to live an absolute risk-free life, I would have stayed in my mother's womb.
Only for such as Swift or England and a number of others that hire the fresh from the License factories all learnt up to drive the Billy Big Rigs!!
Can still remember the weekend at a friend's family farm near Bachelor MO, was to have ponds dug by a local St. Charles contractor as a discount favor for them getting all the excavation work for that family's home building business. We were at the farm house overnight, on a Friday, first thing in morning before daylight the first(actually number Two) truck rolls in with Cat Rubber Tired loader IIRC a 966, driver strips it down, gets off the trailer and ZOOM he is out the gate back the way he came. By this time Sun is coming up. About an hour and half later the actual First truck rolls in, Empty, driver all in a red faced tizzy. Second truck that showed up first comes bounding in with D7 on it, Sod, twigs and some bent parts on the ROPS and Sweeps, exhaust bent to hell and back the off the trailer it comes and they set to digging ponds. Late Sunday, holes done rigs loaded and POOF they are gone home. Seems the story was the D7 was on the float blade on and against the trailer neck, put two 3/8 chains across the rear track pads to opposite rail and they left out of Harvester MO on some side roads, one to avoid the Wentzville/Foristell scales and two to avoid State DOT as to hauling permit oversize overweight on a weekend AT NIGHT in those days was NOT allowed. Was on two lane blacktop secondary highway, made one hard sweeping corner a little tooo fast POP and POP and off the D7 went to the right side ditch. Slight bank full of saplings and loose fill to a creek at the bottom. According to the operator the tractor slipped off rolled over once landing upright taking out a WAD of trees, brush and crap landing on its shoes in the creek in the dark. No extra chains, trailer beaten up pretty bad, he radio'd the other guy who helped get it started and tracked back up the grade then he high tailed it to offload and get back to haul that D7 in. Tractor wore that damage like a badge of dishonor for years until traded off. MSHP "Never Caught the culprit" HOWEVER, the grading company donated a LOT of high dollar price tag toys to MSHP and to MODOT as well did the reparations grade work and paid for asphalt repair where someone had tracked a big tractor to reload. Life in our business was a LOT more forgiving in the late 60s
Dug around & spotted a few articles on the subject . Looks like Betty Grissom's case set an early precedent on compensation . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Grissom https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-01-20-mn-5999-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-03-08-mn-614-story.html https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-paid-columbia-families-millions/
CDL … That stand for " Can Dive Loaded " https://cdllife.com/2017/trucker-collapsed-historic-bridge-gets-jail-time/ Attention Walmart shoppers ….. " We are currently out of bottled water but if you head south out of town about a mile it's stuck in the old iron bridge " .
CDL rating …. " Can't Define Logic ."
I remember seeing this on the news and thinking 'what was the driver thinking???' And of course every-time I go over this little bridge in the valley I think the same thing when I see a big rig up in front of me this bridge has a similar weight restriction on it... quite a few years ago they made it one way just to cut down on the weights and a few other issues with trucks... I guess this driver figured it worked before.... should be ok
Yeah Ronsii . Crazy part is the bridge would have held fine if the trailer had not taken out the upper supports . Oh well . Women drivers & stuff happens .
Interesting thread - Was at a safety seminar just the other day and the DOT had a presentation showing the change to the classification of a commercial vehicle to 10,000 gvwr. Traces back to a federal standard changed around 2016. Some of this info is prolly only California .... your state may differ but fed oversite may have provoked changes and after reading this thread I wonder if this is perhaps whyso. Previously and for many years it was 26,000 gvwr. I had no idea this was changed recently but my four tire personal diesel rig is older and is less than this magic number. My bobtail dump has been in the program for quite a few years. This topic no real effect on my ops. However, upon hearing this news, some fellow contractors with the late model $$ four wheel 350's and the dual wheel versions are agitated (and likely nervous). There has been a lot of door jamb sticker inspections in the last few days and of course commentary about getting stopped w/o the necessary paperwork I LOL a little because I have been doing all this for some time and they were often quite happy to suggest I should sell off my older heavier duty iron with all those terrible rules and "enjoy the ride of a new pickup" (but when I look under the hood I get nauseous and then when I see the electrical on the dashboard my wallet hurts). I told 'em only about eight sheets of paper and the owner operator may again drive down the road: Proper license as to class and endorsements, medical card, enrollment in drug and alcohol, registration with DMV, CARB compliance for emissions, smoke test too if applicable, motor carrier permit active w insurance submittal, insurance card, work hour evidence or log. etcetera etcetera Of course if they stay below 10,000 on the trailer they can skip a couple of these things but I am just trying to help: maybe when they see that they only need five or six sheets of paper they will feel like they are getting a fair shake? LOLOL I also sort of forgot to tell them the DOT said the present 'department policy' is to not examine a "pickup truck without a trailer" regardless of the load. But the inspector said as soon as any trailer of any type is attached, it becomes a candidate for pullover based upon that 10,000 gvwr. The inspectors were quick to define pickup as the factory installed open bed. Utility body, flat bed, flat bed with flip up sides, flat bed with tool boxes as sides, flat bed with removable side rails, box vans, and more examples are not pickups per their definition and are subject to these rules. The supply houses with the late model 350 or 3500 size flat beds or the box van folks at the furniture or appliance story or the feed or landscape supply are all going to be affected. Also heard back a few of the folks in the horse riding groups/clubs are quite nervous about these "new rules". The basic method to gain compliance for the late model diesel pickup crowd hooking up trailers under 10k is to file a motor carrier permit (MCP) and pay the fee for the permit and the supplemental fee for the inspection (CIF acronym or Carrier Inspection Fee). Have insurance company submit proof to DMV. Do everything correctly and document details of a safety inspection every 90 days. Another caveat they will learn: Due to the rules of the MCP, if driving within around 100 miles, have some record of work hours such as a time card or a daily planner etc: not necessary to have a log book or electronic log. And of course as to drivers license all the needed endorsements and classifications and medical were always previously required but as the Inspector said, this safety seminar isn't just about license, it is about Inspection and compliance with safety rules. In our area we have a sand dune off road area where folks with lifted diesel rigs and big drop hitches and/or fifth wheel toy haulers are prevalent on the weekends. The DOT gets onto this every coupla months and it is like fishing in a trout farm. As I was writing this, I was thinking hmmm with all these new fish in the pond, will the DOT be less likely to pull over the usual trucker....probably not likely, but a pickemup and no door tags (blank bulletin board) pulling a mini ex or heavy duty dump trailer would be likely be a powerful magnet for attraction.
Good one Bob! I don't think many believed me in my last reply, but the hotshot is coming to an end. Once the US Dot number goes on the door it's all over. Farmers around here pulled that same crap for years dodging the paper work and regulations because they play the farm exempt card. That was only for the plate. In the last two years dot has been cracking the whip on them. Farmers also tried to sneak out from under the hours of service rules. Once the grain leaves the field it is under farm harvest hours, Once the grain is mixed at the elevator it becomes co-mingled and falls under OTR rules. And how about that FHWA vehicle inspection is that up to date. Everyone has to have a current medical card, let it lap and you lose your CDL and in Wa St done by a credited examiner.
Same in MO, lapse in Med Card is a one month warning to get it back up or surrender license.
I remember when this happened right near Birken Vogt. Everyone needs to review what they wrote in 2016. HeavyEquipmentForums
Ugly, to say the least. Dragged a backhoe for a friend of mine, 16 miles to his house on secondary roads and SLOWLY on my gooseneck, told myself NOT ever again. And just a 580E Construction King
I wonder if this guy is out looking for another driving position or a new ID??? https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...of-causing-fiery-i-70-crash-bonds-out-of-jail
Hate to say it but will, likely a Different ID and SS Card to a new license and likely STILL driving somewhere.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2016_ram_chassis_cab_3500_10k_towing_specs.pdf
He's in the wind-gone.
Now it's the over reach that comes into affect. Enough fools and wrecks caused by stupidity means the regulations will get tougher than anybody wants. Spectacular wrecks that hit the media mean someone wasn't doing their job and someone, usually everyone but the problem person, has to pay the price. I do have a bone to pick on the medical cards though as I think they are another scam to milk money from. My last two physicals did not involve a doctor at all. It was a PA that asked me a couple of questions after a urine sample and a nurse put me through sight, phony hearing test and a blood pressure test with a defective cuff. Both times the nurse running the blood pressure test gave me the worried issue with blood pressure when I told her my son in law was a nurse with a master's degree. He told me to not to accept any high blood pressure reading from any automated cuff that wasn't followed up by a manual check. The lady had a little smirk and did the test showing 122 over 76. Since the card is good for two years and high blood pressure would mean a mandatory one year card my guess is that they want you back next year at another $100. When I got the card there was supposedly a doctor's signature attesting to my good health. The PA didn't have a name anywhere, accept on the bill. I'm sure there was no doctor on the premises when I was there. My regular doctor is not allowed to sign the card because he refused to pay the fee to the state, not because he isn't qualified.
The reason the family practice physicians don't do the CDL exams is they can make way more money on a regular appointment with less paper work. Here it's done through Providence Urgent Care and they have two doc's that take care of it. Any of you take the time to read what you wrote? Probably not. HeavyEquipmentForums http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2016_ram_3500_towing_charts.pdf
My general/family doctor does my DOT and I have to have a physical every year for high blood pressure - never mind it is very well controlled though medication.. Doc charges an extra $75 more than an office visit for a DOT. I agree with John C it's just another money taker - I don't think my doc is knocking down at $75 per physical but it's just $$ drain on my wallet.
Hadn't used my cdl in years, so I let it go......I'll drive the Benny's doughnuts midnight delivery route in a clapped out minivan before I'll get in a cdl required ride.... Ed
i don`t think i made any comment on this story but i just read most of what was written .some pretty scary stuff, has any one kept up with the aftermath ?
CDL rating ……" Can Damage Liquidity " The whole program is shake down to separate hard working people from there money . This hassle & cost all get's passed down to …. Drum Roll …. The Consumer ! Country was working fine before it showed up in the early 1990's . I will say on a positive note … If a feller considers total traffic & product moved successfully daily compared with number of accidents we don't do to bad . There will always be accidents of some kind living life's journey . Most of the time we can minimize the risk buy using common sense but there are times when it's totally out of our hands . http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2019/04/shoals-man-killed-after-tree-falls-on-pickup.php
I did.
I was able to keep my CDL without keeping my medical card current. There is a exemption that is available at the DMV offices. Cost was only three dollars. It allows you to drive your classic truck, or any other for that matter as long as you do not haul for hire. You do still need the correct license certificates. I have not been harassed to date when I have hauled machines to shows with my 71 KW. I always wonder when I pull in though. They DMV office was sure to mention that one better not be behind the wheel of a truck with a DOT sticker on it. Sure helps to resist the temptation to haul a load or two of logs for the local boys in the winter.
I had to consult cousin Festus on the subject .
My family doctor stopped doing them. Urgent care clinic will do them though, and not too bad and actually get examined by a doctor. But what gives the warm fuzzies is that most doctors stopped doing them, yet there is a canvas sign by the freeway advertising them for $85. I wonder how thorough that one is.
I always boils down to money, it doesn't matter what subject it is. Again we can't take a breath without thinking about a dollar bill. TD do you ever watch any modern shows that are not stuck in the Twilight Zone era?
Good points Truck Shop ! Hey … I stumbled on to this new show called " All in the family " . It's about this feller named Archie Bunker and his family trying to make a living in modern times . It's almost as good as Bonanza & Gunsmoke .
^^^^^^ We need more of that on TV these days! I didn't watch that clip, just Archie in general.
Damn TD you almost found one as late model as Hee Haw! Now where is Gilligan, The Munsters and Paladin oops almost forgot Wanted Dead or Alive. And that block buster The Rifleman and last but not least Branded- {Stranded-Stranded on the toilet bowl what do you do when your Stranded and can't reach the roll}
LOL ! My favorite media is AM radio . Thought about this thread heading home today dialing in the station . https://whas.iheart.com/topic/NewsRadio 840 WHAS Local News (283307)/ This thread mentions a lot of rules and regulations ….. Good thing we can count on the Men & Women in Law Enforcement to uphold this high expectation . Well …. Not all of them …. https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...ft-deception-criminal-syndication/1190942001/
After reading through all of these posts, I did a bunch more research on the whole CDL requirements and will be going tomorrow to start the application. I had my CDL at TxDOT with government exemption for medi card and dropped it when I left thinking I wouldn't need it any more and didn't want the headaches of possible points on my license and the medical test mess. I moved into a 4500 Kodiak for my service truck soon after and thought nothing of needing a CDL as it was nowhere near 26k. I just recently moved into a fully insured '06 4300 International registered right at 26k without my name on the sides. I had seen many big service trucks for sale that a selling point was no CDL required which reinforced my thinking. What is up with that? Only outside the Texas DMV site do I find any requirement for CDL for commercial vehicles under 26k and even then it is clear as mud to me. I had been driving heavy haul at TxDOT so skill isn't an issue but for those of us that do try to stay legal, all of the hoops one has to jump through can confusing and daunting. For those of us here in Texas, do I have to have a medi card before I start the application of can I get it while applying?
Get the medical card done now that way it is all on file with the state at the same time.
Just now thought of a long passed local contractor....'ol Charlie had a single axle dump and an ancient Case CK backhoe, thats it, no trailer, they were to much trouble. When it was time to move, Charlie got on the backhoe, raised the boom and dumped the bucket. Set the bucket in the dump bed so it hooked the tailgate and lift until the front tires of the hoe were off the ground. Put the hoe in neutral and drag it down the road........lmao. Ed
As Lucas McCain would say …." You overplayed your hand " . Better call Mister Whipple for that job . And don't squeeze the Charmin ! LOL
As I don't want to hijack the thread, tell me if I need to start a new thread. This might help some getting into this line of work. I went to the DMV today and asked to start the application and was told the medi card had to be on file before starting. We then discussed what I was going to apply for and that is where it went fuzzy again. When I told her my truck was under 26,001 but used for commercial gain, and not a passenger vehicle, she informed me I didn't need a CDL unless I put a trailer behind it (no intention) and become a Class A. I'm more confused now than I had been. Her coworker said it depended on GVW to which I replied it doesn't have a rating sticker on it (nowhere). It was sold as an unfinished cab and chassis and what I've understood, that would be determined by the end user. My registration office had no info on its factory GVW and allowed me to rate it as I wanted. Fully rigged is around 22k. Would a certified weigh ticket be of benefit?
I don't know if the rules and regs are the same but when I decided to upgrade, I decided to go whole hog and get all the licenses I could get. I even took the bus test, unfortunately when I got to the drive test with a class A rig they said since it wasn't a bus my bus license would not stand. OK whatever, I didn't plan to drive a bus anyway, I just thought it was just a test. I got doubles and triples endorsement which I have never used. It sure makes jumping into a job should the opportunity present itself easier, and my wife is happy I go to the doctor every other year anyhow.
As far as I know federally 26000lbs and under non cdl if you are any type of configuration with a trailer and that trailer exceeds 10000lbs class a cdl required even if your under 26000lbs If your on commercial tags anything over 10000 lbs gvw requires a med card and a log book regs apply also as well as required dot number All this is depending on the officer that pulls you over understands the law themself and its plenty sticky If you really stop and think about the vast majority of pickups pulling gooseneck trailers and probably dump trailers are not in compliance to standing laws but that sure not going to stop the stupid or blissfully ignorant ones
If you want the regulations for a CDL in your state go to a DOT office and talk to a weigh master or DOT officer.
The medical exam requires the doc's office to sign up and my reg GP didnt want to do all that, thus we have to make an appointment at an 'industrial medical' where pre-employment physicals as well as drug testing are the main line of business. Previously when the doc did the exam, one could also have some blood work done at a lab. The DMV physical when compared to what the regular MD would prefer: the other one is a few less attributes. It is better than no exam, maybe reminds me a little like the physicals in the military. Not quite their famous kick and a count LOL. No more card in the wallet as they said too many frauds - this new system is direct reporting from the doc to the computer the DOT uses. ~ Eyeglass? could be another step in the process. That may or may not need to be done by an opto/optha if the little picture on the wall was hard to read using the basic 'cover one eye' test. >>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking the dual wheel pickup folks I am familiar imagine all these steps as impossible to accomplish, so when they decide to drive around with their trailer they do a lot of hoping (and perhaps praying) the shiny black and white pickup doesn't cast an eye their way. But they admit they have seen a few trucks similarly equipped on the roadside with a DOT, and they had convinced themselves maybe the other guy was speeding (we in California are not allowed over 55 w a trailer). <<<<<<<<<<< At the electrical supply house where they operate about 6 or 8 trucks with vs flatbeds [all under 26k gvwr but over the 10k gvwr], they indicated the company has been bringing all their trucks to an inspection mechanic every 90 days for about the last three or so years. There I was, just learning about this at a seminar - about a couple years after the rule went into effect - and the supply house had already been doing this. Makes me feel like this is an oldie thread from that standpoint. Sorry to bring up old news but it looks like the only folks w/o a visit w these rules are those with a OEM pickup bed (no utility bodies or flat beds), a gvwr less than 10k (likely a 3/4 ton and not a duallie), if a trailer then it and its load must be less than 10k - and hauling their own property, not others.
Bob, where do you find the part about the pickup GVW being under 10k?
My 1999 F250 SD diesel is rated at 8,500 IIRC, but add a trailer and that jumps to 14,500.
That 4300 only has a gross vehicle weight of 26,000? It does not matter what weight it is licensed at for CDL requirements. They go by the manufactures gross vehicle weight rating, or what it could be licensed for. If it is 33,000 GVW vehicle and licensed for only 26,000 you are still in violation without a proper CDL.
Today while filling my pickup at PacPride a BIG NOSED Chevy Quad cab pickup pulls into the next island with a standard hitch two axle trailer and a case ih tractor with loader and a huge mower deck. Trailer and tractor about 16,000 lbs. 3/4 ton truck. I was figuring a BIG NOSED FORD would pull in next. They try there damnedest to make those pickups look bigger than they really are.
I picked up on that as well Truck Shop . Almost like changing the body style will defy physics . My Grandad had a saying years ago ….. " A one ton truck is to big to run around in and to small to haul with " . Now his statement was dated back in the 1970's but I still agree with it for the most part .
The DOT is again having their spring payday with all the weekenders headed up north to the cabins and the lakes. Many of them drive company pickups or have trailers with the company logos on them. It is amazing how many of them think they can get by with more than .02 alcohol in their system. The DOT attitude is if it has a company logo and moving the vehicle or trailer is at work. One beer and they are over the DOT limit. On opening weekend of fishing season the local county lockup could not hold them all for the mandatory 8 hours before they could bail out. They got as many as 20 some days. Friday evening they had 7 DOT vans and a county deputy. They stacked them into the local hockey arena parking lot for inspections. The wreckers are having a field day hauling them off because they seldom have a correctly licensed driver to take over. One of the officers was quoted to have said, "The days of writing off your personal vehicle as a company ride is over." I think word is spreading fast although they did it last year also. Short memories or slow learners?
Birken: the pickup 'under 10k gvw' was the concept defacto promulgated by the CHP at the seminar. Because if it is other than a pickup, ergo utility body or flatbed etc, regardless of the GVWR it is subject to The Rules. Commercial Vehicle Rules, that is. After the seminar we did a lot of door sticker searching and the typical 3/4 ton late model diesel pickup was at or under the 10k number and duallie pickups were well over that: in the 11k plus range. Then we looked at this document from the California government called the Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures Manual (you can get there by way of the DMV website). There are 30 chapters and some appendix but the chapter 13 is titled Commercial Vehicles Industry Registration Procedures and section 13.065 calls out: Motor Trucks with two or more axles and a .... GVWR of more than 10k pounds .... are req'd tp obtain a motor carrier permit. ** Motor carriers do not include: Pickup Trucks etc Earlier in that chapter 13 section is the definition of a pickup truck. It defines what is not a pickup: although while it may indeed have the open type bed, it cant weight more than 8k nor have a GVWR over 11.5k GVWR. This definition is actually written in there twice: once what IS and once what IS NOT. Here is a nice question: If the duallie pickup has a a gvwr of 11.2k GVWR such as my friend's 2wd dodge Cummin second generation, is he free of The Rule? The seminar only mentioned 10k GVWR not 11.5K GVWR as per the Chapter 13. ** Keep in mind the Motor Carrier Permit is the gateway to the BIT program, the fees are paid at the same time. `` For more confusion, back to the seminar: the Instructor said the CHP simply would not be counting pickup trucks BUT if the pickup had any type of trailer on it, then it would be an element or candidate for roadside inspection to verify compliance with these Safety Rules. ~~~~~~~~~~ This probably made it worse but if one goes accordingly of the seminar and the chapter 13 summary rules for the motor carrier, the seemingly safe number is 10k GVWR. But maybe if it was a pickup bed on a pickup truck that was 11.5k GVWR, perhaps the definition from the Chapter 13 would allow it w/o the MCP? ~~~~~~~~~ A look at the CHP website continues to reflect the BIT program from 2016 and at the seminar that title was specifically revised to 'Carrier Inspection Fee'. ~~~~~~~~~ This article from Western States Trucking Association shows the 10k GVWR number https://westrk.org/basic-inspection-of-terminal-bit-program-update/
I think the confusion is wrapped in a base GVW, pickup or not. The minute you hitch a 16,000 lb loaded trailer behind it that's when it all changes. I remember when magnetic signs came out back in the 70's, became popular for using as tax write off. DOT put a stop to that.
In MO the DOT stopped the use of Magnetic signage on any considered commercial truck, the lettering requirement is either painted or adhesive applied and certain size lettering now.
It took me some time but I found the Washington State regulations concerning CDL requirements. All the state's regulations can be found on this site; https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/publications/manuals/fulltext/M30-39/CVG.pdf To see if you need a Commercial Driver’s License, follow the shaded area in the chart: Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your trailer 10,001 pounds or more? YES, and Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your combination 26,001 pounds or more? If so, You need a CDL Class A license Is the manufacturer’s weight rating of your single vehicle 26,001 pounds or more (includes all buses)? YES, then You need a CDL Class B license Is your vehicle designed to carry 16 or more persons including the driver? YES, then You need a CDL Class C license Is your vehicle a public school bus with a GVWR or registered weightunder 26,001 pounds, regardless of passenger capacity? YES, then You need a CDL Class C license Does your vehicle under 26,001 pounds carry placarded hazardous materials? YES, then You need a CDL Class C license If the vehicle you are driving DOES NOT meet any of the above conditions THEN You DO NOT need a CDL license Website: www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdl.html
And throw a extra oxygen tank in the back and slide into a whole new set of rules and requirements.
Today we did a door sticker inspection on a 4 year old GMC 1 ton diesel duallie pickup and the GVWR is 13k. A notable amount higher than that 11.5 number found in the definition of a pickup.
LOL!
Last Friday here in N.H. There was a horrible mishap on the road. A dodge 3500 towing an empty tandem axle gooseneck trailer (that looked too big for tow vehicle) driven by a 23 year old with a lot of drug and DUI history(suspicion of DUI 4weeks prior) ;truck trailer swerved into oncoming lane killing 7 motorcyclists! Truck and trailer owned by the transportation company the 23 year old was employed by! *** how can this happen ?irresponsible for any company to run that truck trailer configuration on public roads and how come a druggie has a CDL and medical card? I am sick of businesses pushing the limits of 1 ton vehichles capacities seen it a lot the past 8years or so.
Here's one of the articles covering this: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/ne...XTms5fp93jYK7fuvU9R_lUNZEV-OGNLw111RObbi6lh-I
Doubt there was any form of CDL, or Drugs control testing with this guy. First thoughts thru my head was as to that when read the articles. Sad. All too many DOT look around these size machines especially if not Company logo marked.
Hot shots seem to push it bad in my opinion a friend of mine right out of high school worked for one briefly it ended when the owner supposedly fixed some trailer breaks that would stick he just disconnected them and sent the guy out on his Mary way almost got him killed As for cdls I know of at least one guy that drives a dump truck on a questionable license (a few DUI's) I guarantee you there are more people than you think driving without them at all
Just saw this one on the toob. One comment summed it up pretty well.
Not just the idiots with big trailers. I had one of our local masonry contractors go screaming past me in his flat deck with the mixer behind him. I'm doing 90 K, that's 55 mph. When he cuts back in the mixer starts the death wobble, going back and forth, up on one wheel, then the other. Don't know what one of those mixer weighs in at, for doing mortars or parge coatings and he had water in it, the water was slopping out when it was going up on a single wheel. At least the dumb *** had enough brains to not slam on the brakes like most idiots would do. He got it back under control and for some unknown reason, slowed right down. Was he ever lucky it was on a road that was not very busy at the time, if there was any oncoming traffic, it might have been a different story.
I love the diesel pickups that can't handle the appropriate tongue weight so the guys hauling a dozer or backhoe park them over the trailer duals. Real smart junior, real smart.
I wonder how much that load balanced over the trailer duals shifts onto the tongue due to inertia when heavy braking anyway.
Likely a LOT.
I think the answer is to stay far away from trucks on the highway. Don’t drive next to them, pass safely and quickly, and act as if they have no eyes, no brakes and no driver. There are so many places where trucks could be operating dangerously and you have no way of knowing it.
I find drivers of large trucks to be in most cases courteous, safe drivers. They are subjected to rules far more stringent than drivers of smaller vehicles. In the last week I've had several close calls with people pulling onto the road in front of me. when there is no where near enough room to stop. Most common is very old people. Pull out in front of me where I have to come down on the brakes hard to avoid running over them, then they drive 10 miles under speed limit! Another EXTREME hazard is texting. At least once a day somebody crosses into my lane while staring into their lap. They think they are in stealth mode. I assume police investigating an accident will check when the last text was sent. The people with trucks too small for their load are yet another highway hazard.
Willie I couldn't agree more. Although I am starting to see more steering wheel holders riding 18 wheels instead of professional drivers, old folks and folks of ALL ages texting are far, far more dangerous on the HWY. Texting IMO is the most dangerous hazard on our roadways.
My brother in law passed Thursday early AM, I got the call at 5 AM. I had 1 job to do, a little backfill and mobe my 120 back to the shop. I did a little self evaluating and decided to do it. I turned myself WAY up and headed down there with the empty truck and tilt, a real pain in the ass with overbraking and smoking tires. Jake on, delicate foot and looking way ahead as usual but more. A lady just about blew a light with me about 60' away @35 MPH. I gave her the stern pointed finger. ***? Met this wheel holder in an 18 wheeler at a 4 way stop, phone to ear and driving with is elbow. I was too attentive to my own things to blast him with the air horn but I thought of it as it was too late. *** are these drivers thinking? Got my dirtwork done, loaded the 2 buckets and hoe pack in the truck, crawled on, and then took it over to an empty lot nearby to chain up in peace. Saw a few more wheel holders with @#%^ phone to ear on the way back to the shop. They make headsets fellas.
If you cant drive with one had then you have a problem. I do it all the time when i drink my coffee or shift my gears. The problem with the phone is that you are thinking about the conversation and not about the task at hand. If they want to make rules about no talking on the phone it should be no talking on the phone at all.
Can you text with one hand, without breaking concentration?
I go by the rules of the state. If I can answer a call with one finger, that is legal and IMO safe enough. Then my hand is back on the wheel or shifter. I don't initiate calls in the truck for any reason. I installed a radio unit that has all the phone features plus it is my back up camera monitor, and also my dash cam recorder. If I want to phone I pull over. Seems simple enough and what did we do before the phones anyway? We drove and did not get in any wrecks because of phones or texting.
I remember my father riding around with at first rolls of dimes on the dash, then rolls of quarters. At lunch time you went to the pay phone and made any calls you needed to make. Somehow projects still got built..
Every truck stop years ago had a row of phone booths, truck stop restaurants had phones at the booths/tables. As CM1995 said {projects got built} and loads got delivered. Phone or no phone-driving is a privilege not a right.
Not suggesting that they are bad drivers. I am suggesting that those drivers have their hands full, and staying away from them, not pulling out in front, and cutting them a lot of slack can't hurt, and might help them.