But why create MORE Hazard? A Bridge in Taiwan collapsed, I do not have a cause as yet, yet as multiple boats were caught under it this scene popped out. Side or directional off angle loading cranes, maximum down angle next to water, using a Excavator off a floating platform with questionable footing, load sitting on moveable debris that CAN and has shifted, nothing bad going on here!!
Guess the guys who designed the bridge knew what they were doing too. Does taiwan conduct beheadings for negligence?
In the videos posted appears the near center support cabling snapped first then the cascade in collapse.
Rumor has it that a hurricane/typhoon went through the area recently?
This is another fine example of why I'll never knowingly trust any Chinese construction... Yeah, I know Taiwan and China are kind of different. It's a bummer too, because new China (since the 1980s or whenever they started building cities) looks really neat. Their architecture is incredible, but I'm scared of their steel and their methods. Sometimes fast and cheap isn't good.
Saw a number of Chinese components being tested at the Nuke for piping repairs on the steam side, NONE passed metallurgical testing where much did not actually fit the pedigree paperwork that came with them. Flanges, elbows, weldolets, a very FEW valves all underwent destructive testing and all failed miserably. One guy thought they were no better than recasts of the scrap we shipped to them, says a lot of their power stations there.
While keeping this thread running somewhat off topic... The company I work for makes extremely precise printing equipment, in the good ol' US of A. We've been making them here for like 50 years now. We've tried a few times to move our production facilities to "Low cost" regions. We've spent millions of dollars building plants in China and Malaysia, spent thousands of man-hours travelling and training, and a bunch of time, money, and effort to move all the junk back here to Dayton, Ohio because the low cost regions couldn't hang with our tolerances and yields. My thought, at this point, is if there are any variances to what you are trying to manufacture you're best suited to continue building it here. The low cost regions only seem to do "well" when everything works as expected almost all the time. Our tolerances were too tight for them to ignore, which is what it seems they are good at doing. While that's not the end of the world for a lot of stuff, I could see that it would be for things like giant mega-structures or Nuke plants... Yikes.
Metallurgy is the weakness of nearly all Chinese steel products. Things they manufacture out of mild steel and cast iron are often OK, but anything that requires more strength, more carbon, they cannot seem to get it together. I imagine in due time they will learn to copy our technologies and develop quality control systems, but it looks like a long hard road for them, working long hours and low pay in the most dangerous and unhealthy conditions. As to the OP, perhaps they are not born with enough aptitude for the obvious laws of physics, which are right there before their eyes.
check, your point is interesting. I wonder if it's something to do with them just coming into these technologies (for lack of better words) within the recent past? We've been making strong steel for a long time here, maybe they are just slowly catching up?
We invented and developed these technologies, they merely copied them. They had immediate access to the materials, tooling and procedures, yet still insist on doing things the cheap quality way. The reason I say they had immediate access is because American and European companies went over there and set up shop. How long should it take?
I don't know about finished products but for raw steel China has some of the best steel in the world. China accounted for 49.2% of world steel production in 2017. Don't remember the name of the company but read an article that stated the steel from a China mill was world class and among the highest quality steel in the world. Here's a more recent list of steel producing countries. China is double of 2nd place. Catching up? Not so much. China's steel production is almost 2000% more than US steel production. It has been stated many times that China can have cheap mass produced stuff as well as the highest quality in the world. Steel is no exception. I get people want everything homegrown but get some proof before knocking something just because it's from China. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_steel_production
China CAN make world class steel, or nearly anything else. They still don't seem to want to though. Maybe some of the comments are based on experience from 5 or more years ago and don't apply anymore. Most of us remember when "made in Japan" was what you saw on cheap knives and hammers in the surplus store, at that time Japan was producing better cars etc. than U.S. but it hadn't trickled down to the cheap manufacturers. Don't forget, it was only in the 60's that Mao ordered increased steel production and the philosophy they tried was backyard steel mills, chop up all your furniture, round up anything to use for scrap and melt it down, turned out the steel produced was less useful than the scrap that went in. I wonder how much a picture based written language holds back progress in China. It sure seems like Germanic cultures have thrived in technical arenas even compared to southern European Romance cultures. I'm sure they have ways to write technical manuals, but if the translations are any indication, it may be that technical writing and understanding is a major obstacle, and most factories' quality control is strictly oral communication.
Steel has to meet strict international standards with respect to quality control and what it is being purchased for. Finished goods depends on the actual product what standards are required. I'm sure there are translators that can produce as good of technical manuals as anywhere. If it's manuals for putting furniture together maybe not the best. They couldn't sell as much steel as the entire rest of the world combined if it was all garbage steel.
Have to stand by what was explained to me at the nuke Metallurgy did not match the paperwork sent with their supplied materials
In manufacturing, like any business, the objective is to reap the highest profits. Short cuts are made where customers don't see them. Metallurgy is unseen. If the Chinese have good steel and they don't use the right steel where it's needed, does this not suggest malice? It's much cheaper to produce machined parts out of mild steel than say 4140, especially when the tolerances are stretched. The American companies that developed all the products that are now made in China built quality into their products for the long term and had reputations we could trust. Bankers generously financed the globalists who went to China and had copies made of American products, giving away technologies we and our ancestors sweated over for decades. The products looked just like the American counterparts and were sold for a small fraction of the American counterpart. It doesn't matter if it's Warn winches or Master locks, these American companies were forced out of business and had to sell their names to the globalists. Now these names are merely decals to paste on cheap Chinese products.
How many years ago was this? Standards have improved drastically over the years. China has some of the most modern steel mills in the world. A lot of American steel mills were closed because they were old technology and big polluters. There used to be cheap copies of things made in China. Now a lot of the original items are made in China but the price hasn't dropped at all. I'm sure a lot of people would still buy N. American made products if they were available. Companies getting greedy and getting their products made cheaper in China so they make more profit is a big part of the problem. My pillow has sold over 40 million pillows made in USA. I would bet they could make a lot more profit having them made in China but they they're not exactly hurting. I know a lot people that would buy Vice Grips made in US even if they were more money but the ones from China are the same price as the US ones they replaced. Another thing that I think is troubling is that a lot of companies are being bought up by large organizations that have little regard for the workers or history of the company. It almost a monopoly on some products. It's more about making profits to keep the share holders happy than having any concern for the workers or the history of the company.
Two years and Not in the Nuke sensitive but our steam side, was to be Chromoly alloy Carbon Steel, the alloy was inconsistent as well lower percentage than that shown in their Pedigree Reports.
High Tech quality assured, is a bit crude for that:
Our problems were in that flanges similar to these appearing well made were full of Inclusion materials that showed in x-ray scans, then as were tested by grinding or small sections of samples cut away were found less than in spec.
Years ago I was a quality engineer for an engine manufacturer. We had a batch of engines failing longevity testing in the lab and getting returns to dealers for premature ring failure. To make a really complicated story short, the pressed in liners were the wrong grade of cast iron supplied by a large Chinese foundry that cast cylinder liners for a lot of different engine companies. They had different grades depending on their clients specs. The line that cast ours was down due to an unplanned outage, so to make delivery, they just used a different lines grade for the pour and shipped them. Never said a word and tried to deny everything until the law suits started. We ended up with an entire warehouse full of assembled engines that had junk liners pressed in that we couldn't sell. When I left, they were still locked up debating on how to salvage them.
They do make an impressive electronic fly swatter for $2.99!
We have TWO!!!
I would guess it depends on which mill the steel is coming from. Edmonton Exchanger gets some of their plate from China and they have a lot of plate up to 12" thick. They will test it to what ever specs. the customer requires. This is just plate though and not finished components coming from China. Alberta has some of the highest standards in the world when it comes to pressure vessels. https://www.edmontonexchanger.com/pressure-vessel-components/pressure-vessel-plate/ https://www.edmontonexchanger.com/pressure-vessel-components/pressure-vessel-plate-rolling/
ASME Requirements for High Pressure systems are pretty well standards. We lived by them at the Nuke, still had Flow Accelerated Corrosion issues, had a 8" 45 degree turn erode thin on a unisolable pipe, fish mouth failure shot the failed six in by 9 inch piece of steel almost forty feet impaled into a outer steel building skin. Remnant of the pipe ripped a spring can support away twisted and then smashed into a building I-beam, small one 18" web 6 inch flanges 1/2" thick bent it almost five inches off line. Only had 250 degree F 105# steam at minimal volume as a reheat recovery line. Scary enough EVERY Pipe replacement component was EXTREMELY tested and inspected before welding into system. I had been alongside that pipe not 10 hours earlier of the event. Walked pasty 600# Condensate and 1200# feedwater supply piping and 1050# main steam supply piping nearly every week, most water systems over 480 degrees, steam was just at 545 degrees. Would never know died/dying if had been exposed to a shear failure explosion or steam cloud. Just did not dwell on it.
I'm not sure what the standards are where you are or if somebody was trying to cut corners not specifying a higher grade of steel? A friend of mine worked on some 400 ton cokers for the oilsands. All the piping was nuclear spec. which basically meant no margin of error. If weld X-rays showed anything other than perfect they couldn't be repaired. The joint had to be cut part and completely rewelded. All TIG using some fancy automated system.
We worked to that same level, Nuke power was unforgiving of any margin of error either the clean or the dirty sides.
My experience with the Chinese is that to them nothing is dishonest. If you cheat and get away with it, you are considered clever.
Several sides to this, Timken rep told me {don't worry about their bearings stamped-China-because the tooling that's used is newer than what is used here in the U.S. . Really? Back in 05-06 Horton bought off shore bearings for their fan hubs on certain models. We had eleven ISX engines that had those hubs with cheap bearings-we lost four radiators chopped all to hell when the hubs let go all under 150,000 miles. Horton covered everything and exchanged the rest of the hubs no questions asked. But just how much did that cost Horton over all. Cummins ISX exhaust manifolds built in 05, 06 & 07 had major issues with cracking, But here's the catch-the ones stamped China were ok-the ones stamped U.S. broke. For years Eaton gears and internal hard parts in their transmissions, for example a RTLO18913A all hand parts stamped Can, UK. Then about 12 years ago the OEM replacement parts started entering the market stamped China. Then the new transmissions came with China parts. Since then it is not uncommon to lose a 13spd at around 350,000 miles. Front sections go to hell, which was pretty uncommon years ago. All of this can be laid at the feet of the top management. Their trying to peal to much profit off the top, Most of the utility/power companies across the U.S. have bad infrastructure. They changed the requirement of change out times to a longer status just to shove it down the road, it looks better on the profit/loss statement.
We had the Original High Voltage Step Up transformers at work for 31 years, life cycle by GE was figured to 25 years so dragged an extra 6 years of life out of basically oil filled explosive devices. As they age the organic materials inside them(Wood and paper of all things) breaks down in the oil bath, after a time that allows arcing to occur which transfers to accumulated gases of the oil breakdown due to the heat of arcing inside the normally oil filled casings. I walked around those 10,000 gallon oil filled time bombs for sixteen years taking gas level readings where was explained if saw more than a considered dangerous level to stay away from them. That number got adjusted UP several times until we as operators said enough and they went to remote equipment. The lead time of large transformers as these is from 2 to 5 years dependent on the design, saw the effect of two failures at our dirt burner sites with the same conditions as we watched where those devices failed. Utilities today are scraping the bottom of the barrel, they are dealing with regulations exceeding capability to deal with while rates are held artificially down for the poor to be able to have electricity only to still fail to pay their bills. Most do not understand power plants make no profits, they are expense only usually tied to a 25 year life cycle development loan. O&M as to wages/benefits/tooling, fuels, major overhauls and loan payments are all that are recovered during the years of operations, the profits go to the owning utility as to end of use rates. Power lines, poles, distribution transformers, distribution substations, linemen and equipment for repairs, even metering mechanisms are paid for by the consumer with their energy usage fee, power stations and line transmission lines towers & substations with all the manpower etc. are just the base number for the electricity per kwh. The nuke I worked at cost the company $.06/kwh, most dirt burners were similar, the CTG units were closer to $.30/kwh due to extent of maintenance per hour run time and fuel consumption. The Customer rate here is $.15/kwh. These are the old(still installed) and new replacement transformers when we did that swap out. These changed 25,000VAC to 345,000VAC(closer to 360,000 for actual transmission)