So my questions are what is the oldest most miles least amount of money would you spend to buy a truck to put to work sub contracting. I am restructuring my life. Logging has not gone well for me and need new direction. I don't really plan to drive truck forever. But I can't afford to buy everything I want to do what I want. I also don't have all the contacts to really jump into what I want. So considering I will need a truck to hual equipment anyway, I thought/think that buying a good dump (instead of just something that could move equipment cheaply) will give me work and oppertunity to make contacts while saving up and finding work. I figuire to drive dump for 2-3 years to get finances and contacts lined up Then I will be in much better position to buy equipment I want to do what I want. Any and all help and opinions greatly appreciated. Thanks!!! If you want to add truck specs that would be great to. Again Thanks!!!!
With the demand for cord wood right now and the slowdown in the housing sector I think you are making a mistake. Cord wood dealers over near me on the coast are having trouble finding grapple loads to fill there cord wood orders. Most excavators are slow right now. Fortunately, I am staying busy. I was also looking for a bigger truck, but may get a Cat 305C CR instead. A friend of mine in Strafford has a tri axle and has been slow lately.
I'd look at the trucking market real close to see if there would be work for it. My aggregate supplier says his sales are down nearly 75% over last year, that translates to 75% less work for dump trucks.
Dump Trucks I started out 7 years ago, with a single axle dump. I bought it to pull my backhoe, I was installing septic systems. I do not recommend that way to go. With things slow now, I have sold 3 of my tandem axle dumps and gone to quads. I still have one tandem, for the close quarter jobs. In my area, if you dont have a quad, you may set at home, or work for nothing. I have sold my dozer, excavator and backhoe, I am just contract hauling now. I have gotten in with two big construction companies that hires all their trucks and for the most part, they keep me busy. One of them are in paving (major highways and sub divisions and the other is big land development. In my area, this is the way to go, it takes some luck, to get in with these big companies, but when you are in, you will work most of the time. Start checking with guys in you area that are owner operators, most of these guys are good guys and dont mind helping you. Without these contacts, you are in for a slow road. The reason I have quads, is I have to haul by the tons and you need a truck that will haul tonnage. Ok my trucks are 1983 Ford LTL9000 quad with 18ft bed, it will carry 21-22 tons 1978 Ford L9000 quad with 18ft bed and it will carry 21-22 tons I bet you are thinking, wow 30 year old trucks, thats the same thing I said when a friend of mine said he knew where this truck is for sale, I said I didnt want that old of a truck, because the DOT would have me stopped all the time, because it is a old truck. I bought it when I saw it and bought trucks have been working for the last 2 months, with no major problems. I did paint the bodies on bought trucks and the cab on the 1983. They are bought great running trucks, they bought have A/C that are real cold. They have 400 Cummins that run great. Im getting ready to buy another quad, for a hopeful future job. Its a 1990 Kenworth, Cummins engine $15,000. I work along side new trucks that have $2500 a month payments and we make the same money they do. One of the engines went bad in their new truck (under warranty) it stayed in the shop 5 weeks, getting warranty work. He lost more money that period, than I paid for the 1978. OK Im almost finished, I dont have a specfic brand of truck that I like, but I tend to buy more Fords. I like the 400 Cummins and the Cat 3306 (with the right application)I dont like the Cat 3116 (no power and they wouldnt hold up)Cat 3406, get engines, but bad on fuel, and costly to repair. This is just my opinion. I dont like Volvo (but I have a tandem Volvo) just my opinion, I ended up with it on a trade, its a good truck, but a bit light weight suspension Im gone, sorry to be so long, do your homework and dont be afraid to buy any older truck, but make sure you know what you are buying. Try to stay away from converted road trucks and air ride, if youre going off road Good Luck
Dave, here's my thoughts: Can't blame you for getting out of the logging, it's a young mans gig, and you don't get any younger logging. It's hard work. Hard time to get out, IF you have woodlots to cut for hardwood, though. Try to get hooked-up with a paving company. Pike or the like. Seldom do backhauls, easy on the trucks, lots of sitting time (no burning fuel while you wait for rain to stop, paver to move etc....) and clean (as compared to muddy job sites. When I ran hired trucks the paving gigs were the best. That and you can arrange to shut-down for the winter when the plants close so you can plow snow.:cool2 Doing dirt jobs I ALWAYS hauled both ways and the truck was mud and dust covered no matter how hard you tried to keep it clean. That, and we were in and out of dirt and rough areas and getting stuck non-stop. Hard on the chassis. As for style, a tri-axle is pretty much a must have unless you can do a trailer dump. They're pretty popular around here now due to weight and the cheap cost to reg a trailer. The down-fall of a tri-axle is that it won't get in and out of sticky areas as well, the tag tends to get hung-up on mud etc... Good luck.
I wouldn't be getting out of logging if I had the work. The problem is I don't. I like the freedom of the work. But I don't like looking at my skidder sitting in my yard not working. I am 45 and am not the fastest in the woods. I can do the work just not fast. So just not right for me. I tried, gave it 5 years. So put skidder up for sale, hoping it is sold. Guys are supposedly getting money from bank thursday or friday, we'll see. Anyway between my slowness and the fact that I just dont have the connections it was time to call it quits (even though everyone hates a quiter). I don't need to support my family with the truck, my wife is the one that makes the money. Thats why I have been a stay at home dad for 14+ years. Thats also why so slow. Hard to work hard all day with 2 girls to take care of all the time:Banghead Anyway I figuire if I can make enough to pay truck and expenses with alittle left over for me, thats great. Not to mention the fact that it gives me a purpose. I figuire with a truck it will give me something to do but also allow me to get know people (we have lived here almost 10 years and I know maybe that many people). Again hard to get to know people when your life revovles around the kids. I just can't work for someone else, So I need to find something that allows me to be my own boss of sorts. I know right now things aren't the greatest, But it won't allways be that way. The equipment I was planning to get (18,000# excavator and about 11,000# compact track loader) could be hualed with a 33k truck, But then thats all it's really good for. So I figuired since I can't get everything at once anyway I would be better off buying either a tandem with 14' box or a tri with a 16' box. I like the idea of a heavy speced tandem to get in tight spots (which there seems to be many around here), but then think maybe a good tri would give me more work. Anyway this is why I started this thread. Sorry so long. I thank you all for your help very much appreciated.
If you can get your foot in the door trucking is a great way to make contacts. If you can make a go of it during these times, you should be able to make a go of it whenever. Good Luck!!
Don't be afraid of buying an older truck. I started out 5 years ago with a 86 mack that was definately no beauty queen, but it was cheap, only 10,000 and mechanicly it seemed ok. I ran it for 4 years with no major breakdowns and was able to save enough money to pay cash for my upgrade which is a 98 freightshaker. If your going to do strickly dirt work stay tandem, but if your going to go paving definately go tri axel. Paving companies aren't hiring many tandems anymore. I have thought of adding a 3rd axel to my truck. I only have a 14 foot body but they are high sides. I have no problem hauling 22 tons now, except being overweight. Also if your going paving try to hook up with Lane Construction. They are good people to work for and currently are paying the most for triaxels. 72-75 range. One of the biggest thing is being able to do most of the work on your truck, and being a logger I bet your pretty handy with a wrench and duct tape. good luck
Thanks Nedly and dumptrucker!!! Dumptrucker I firguire most likely more dirt work, but honestly not real sure. I find it hard to go talk to people about work till I know I will be able to do what I say I can. If that makes any sense. What about specs? Say I go tandem what would be best? Or say I go tri what would be best? Motor axles tranny and such. Again thanks!! Oh as for being my own mechanic, I can do some things but am by far no mechanic, I don't have the tools or experaince to do everything. Once I have done or helped do something once I can do it again (usually).
Dump specs Heya I just registered today and figured i'd jump right in here on this subject. If you are looking for a dump truck try to do a bit reverse engineering. What am I going to be doing? What is my budget? Answer of these two questions will lead you to the start of the process. I sell dumps, both new and you. I sell for a Freightliner/Sterling/Westernstar dealer. You can get some nice equipment now cheap. My sujestion to you would be a spec much like this. 2000-2006 (pre emittion engines) 18000 lbs front ax, at least super 40's rear tandam Cummins or Cat motor (look where you have service, may help you choose) Lock ups Wet line (may be a steal if included with truck) size of dump Used trucks are going for almost scrap prices now, and the shopper can realy find a great deal. Dont be afraid of using the phone, it is a buyers market right now. One thing I would ask before a purchase is a read out of the ecm. A new dash is a common thing in a used truck. Ecm dont lie Hope this helps Browning
What i did when I bought my dump, was i went auction sailing. Its a bit more of a risk, but if you know what to look for, you can get a truck for pretty cheap. Heres the specs of my truck, and I got it for 8 grand. 87 wester star. 444 Cummins, 8LL transmission (was told it was a 15 speed buts its an 8ll) 44rears, not sure of the fronts. 16'6 box in good shape. Chalmers suspension (man is it different then the air ride im used too drivng tractor trailers!) Truck is in really nice shape, has aluminum budds, good tires, and has passed a DOT inspection (although they almost didnt let me go through because two of my tires were low) Only thing I dislike about it, is it does smoke on startup (I checked and its normal for an older cummins but I still dont like it, im used to newer cats that I drive at work), and the other thing I dislike is that it has no a/c. Its also a little bit more powerfull and jsut a bit much truck for what I need, but Id rather have a little more then a bit less! I waited and waited and waited and shopped around and did research on dumps for along time before I bought one too. I found this one, and once I get up and out of bed (just went through acl surgery) it shouldnt take me long to recover the 8 grand that i paid for it, and it will tow my backhoe around with ease. It suited all my needs.
Thanks guys!! Much apprectiated and welcom to the site.
Here are a few under 25k. http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...3&dlr=1&guid=CDCD26AAD23B4126B0E46E5BA8D0178F http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1768435&guid=A45BBF8F4BE14CA4BB9ACBCE6B0897AB http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/big-trucks/find/listing/1993-FORD-LTL9000-93386194 http://www.advantagetrucks.com/inv_506_1994_Ford_L9000_TriAxle_Dump.html http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/big-trucks/find/listing/1986-KENWORTH-C500-90636709 http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1831757&guid=cc26f8887c6d425ba86f69f3e4f969c3 asking 26,500 http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1790061&guid=A546438331ED4E599AD48B3B75676E1F http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...3&dlr=1&guid=CDCD26AAD23B4126B0E46E5BA8D0178F http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/...5&dlr=1&guid=CDCD26AAD23B4126B0E46E5BA8D0178F
Make sure you check the weight laws by you. Some of those older, heavier, tandem axle trucks may not help you with payload. If there is not enough room to add a third axle if necesary you might be stuck with a truck that cant carry what you want. I would check your states guidelines on wheelbase and axle ratings before you buy. Some of those trucks spec wise are obsolete in some areas because legally they can only carry maybe 15-16 ton because they are heavy with a short wheelbase. Good luck in your search!
You shouid look before you leap and make sure you have something lined up that you can make money at. Valley indicated dumps are cheap rihgt now if there was work the value would be up. I am south of you and construction is down. a lot of Co. did not reg. all there trucks this year as well as down sizing. I am told that at least one of previously mention Co. is bidding on small jobs that they would not have previously considered.(I do not have any direct connection to this Co. - just know some employees) Also they are bidding on a very tight margin.As I said this rumers The Mack garage has been laying off and giving pay cuts to personel over the past year. That being said- pick a brand that parts are still easily available, age is not so much the issue
I would buy a truck that will haul 22 ton. I own a 89 mack 10 wheeler and I can haul 16 ton. I can put more in it but pray I don't get stopped. I do small commercial site work mostly, so for the site work it works fine. I have hauled for others at $75/ hour but only because they really need another truck. If I could haul 22 ton I could work the truck every day. Because of the site work I do I do have contacts with trucking guys, gravel pit and the stone pit so it would be easy to work a tri axle. I am loking for a tri axle now for under 75K. and that is hard to find a good one that you can run every day and put a driver in it if needed. If you are going to buy a dump truck and use it for just trucking for hire than you need a truck that can compete with the others. I bet in your area , like mine any trucking being done on a large scale is being done with at least a 22 ton load. The more hp, gears, box size the better. Come up with a budget , lets say 30k , look in truck paper and search all trucks for that money and find the best one. I think you will have to spend 50k or more.
Thanks guys great advice. I don't plan on jumping right in. I did look at a few trucks today though. I looked at one in hinsdale seen it from road for awhile finnally stopped to check out. It is an 88 international eagal 425hp cat with 8ll trans, 46k rears with new 50k springs almost new tires 18k front with new 20k springs, 14' bibue box (seen better days but no holes or rust, just beat from moving ledge) 63k gvw in nh new pto pump, new cover control on box, new mirrows. Started right up (said he hadn't started it in a month). Looked pretty decent. He was asking 17k I offered 12k says he needs to talk over with his wife. Oh yea onewelder where in NH are you? You cant be south of me Richmond is on MA boarder. Oh yea it also has 4.53 ratio, says it's top speed is 62mph
trucks I had a 88 Int with the 3406 cat, I sold it because of the fuel mileage, 4 driveshafts, 3 rear ends, 2 clutches. With all this power, when you get stuck, drivers seem to want to pop the clutch and with all this power, something is going to give and it will be the money in the wallet. :BangheadI dont recommend this truck with a big engine and a small dump body. They dont go together, in my opinion. You need a truck to carry tonnage, so you can get the top $$$$ for your work. Keep looking around, youll find a good truck, but I would pass on this one. I am looking for another quad dump myself and while visiting my son in VA, this weekend, I saw a 97 Ford L9000 tri axle, 300,000 miles. This truck is in such good condition, I plan on buying it. I really wanted another quad, but I cant turn this deal down $15,000.00. I bought a 87 Ford quad and a 78 Ford quad (yes 1978) I paid $25,000 for bought of them and I have only spent about $1500 on them in the last 7 weeks and they have grossed more than I paid for them. You dont run across this kind of deal often, but they are out there. I know where there is a 1990 KW T800 quad $18,000, 1999 Sterling quad $21,000. These are bank repoes and are good trucks. I would stay away from large engines, there are no benefit in having that much power in a dump truck, except to help the fuel man. If the truck is set up correctly as a dump, you can do everything you need with a 300hp engine (3306 Cat, L10 Cummins, 350 Cummins, M11 Cummins, etc) Good luck
thanks willis!! I plan on looking at several others this week. I was thinking though that more hp was better for getting around in the hills we have around here. Oh yea can't say i've ever seen a guad around here, only tandems and tri.
the 425 is fine with the 14 foot dump. Yeah the fuel mileage might not be as good as others , but unless you get an electronic motor your milage won't be that good. It all depends on how you drive it. With the hills we got up in this neck of the woods it's nice to have the power when you need it. Remember the pedal doesn't always have to bottom out on the floor. That truck is speced right. Nice thing is you have the heavy speced truck with a good hp engine that if you ever wanted to put a 3 rd axel in you can. Bring it to Osgoods in Charlestown NH. I have a 14 foot body and room to put a third axel for around 5500 for a brand new unit. Or you can lengthen the frame a little and put a 16 foot box on with a 3rd axel. The main thing is that the truck could handle more weight, it is speced for it.
dump trucks and hills You might be correct on the hill and big engine thingee, but if you dont have much experience at trucking, ask alot of questions, to the guys in your area. You are better off with a true factory dump, not a converted road tractor, the specs are better on the factory dump. If you see a dump truck at a fuel/gas stop, swing in there and ask the driver what size engine, tranny, rears and dump bed the truck has. Most drivers, are working for the owner of the truck, so it doesnt matter to them, what they say. Ask them what engine, they like? They probrably can tell you about possible jobs you can get. Dont be dissapointed if you get Mr Gummy and he doesnt want to talk, just keep trying. Be careful about buying any truck, I drove over 300 miles to buy a truck that was in great condition, when I got there it wouldnt start (batteries) A/C didnt work, lift axle was bad, lights didnt work, engine had a lot of base compression and the guy wanted $25,000 for a 89 Ford L9000 quad. Last week I drove another 300 miles to look at a 90 Ford quad with a bad rear end (bank repo) was told it was a good trruck $5000, engine was completly worn out and so was the rest of the truck. I wouldnt have hauled it off, if he would have given it to me. So make sure you know what you are looking at:Banghead Good Luck
Thanks again guys!! Willis I am only looking right at the moment. I have several that I plan to look at before I make any kind of decision. I know I don't know all the things to look at, but I do know a few things maybe not about trucks but am learning.
trucks Its all about learning and that is why we are here
for some reason I thought Riichmond was was in the northwestern part of st. My mistake, and considering how many times I went to Monadnock Speedway , and the Swanzy Fair in my younger days I am surprised that I thought that Derry is about twelve miles from Mass border,Rt 93 just touches one corner.Going north Salem - Windham - Derry- Londoderry- Manchester.
You might want to see if Global Truck traders has anything decent. They are right in your area.
I've looked, nothing I care for. But I keep an eye out there.
I'm new here so my opinion might not weigh as much as others, but here's my take on big engines with smaller loads. There different ways to look at the situation but I'm a firm believer in over-doing HP, here's why. An engine is under the most stress under high load and high RPM. With a smaller engine, you'll find yourself holding the go pedal down further trying to pull a hill, taking off with heavy loads, and trying to maintain highway speeds. Larger (higher HP) engines won't have to be run wide open to pull small hills, take off with heavy loads, and will maintain highway speeds easily in top gear, even with OD transmissions. So, which engine do you think would last longer... the smaller engine that was run hard or the larger engine that was overly-capable of handling the load? Also, in my opinion, an engine coupled to an 18 speed will last longer than one with an 8 speed. Why? Closer ratios. Instead of pulling onto the highway with an immediate grade that requires revving the engine out to make the next shift with an 8, an 18 will let you split the shifts in "normal" RPM ranges. No matter what speed, grade, or load, there a cog for it with an 18. Again this is just my opinion, with no factual data to back it up. Just something I have thought about driving trucks with engines and transmissions ranging from the DT466/6 speed synchronized to an N14 Cummins with 18 speed. As usual, there are also exceptions. A quad-axle with a 300Hp/8LL may long outlast a tandem with a 475/18 speed according to how hard the driver ran the truck, maintenance, and on-road/off-road usage of the truck.
Thanks downeyC&E!! I have same thoughts on hp. I also thought it would help with fuel mileage also for same reasons.
Most of the guys around here have gone to high hp and 18 sp due to the hills. I was always leary of the high hp deal and didn't like the 18's, but they all seem to agree the combo works good for pulling hills. And like they have said, you need not keep the pedal on the mat, ease into it and shift it easy, you'll be suprized at how much better the mileage will be. I've been looking at trucks all year. Have yet to see much of a drop in price scince i started in Jan. I'm waiting for the right deal, no rush. On another side, another big outfit up here just laid-off the last of it's hired trucks. I don't know of any hired trucks running locally except for pavers, and DOT just ran out it's paving budget for the year due to high cost of material. Step into it easy. It is a good time to buy, but make sure you don't have to make any $$$ for a year or so.
The guy with the 88 international called me back today says he'll only go down to 15,000. I am in no rush to buy. I still have a bunch to look at. But if it was a kenworth or western star I would buy it, it's in great shap for an 88.
In the last 5 years I have bought 2 used dump trucks. Both have turned out to be excellent investments and trouble free. I found both on the internet. It took 6 months of looking to find the first one and 7 months for the second one. Here are some of the things I learned in the process. If looking for an older original dump truck, about the only ones not pretty beat up are municiple trucks that had a good maintenance department. They are usually heavy duty, have been well maintained, and have low miles. This was the first truck. I got a great deal on it and sold it 2 years later for a larger one. I got $2,500 more for it than I paid for it. The Western Star I have now started out as a heavy duty tractor and was converted to a dump. I could not find an original dump speced like I wanted that was in decent shape (unless it was almost new and was way too much money). Western Star makes a good vocational truck as do many other manufacturers. If you can find one of these converted to a dump, you will end up with something equivalent to an original dump but in much better shape. Here are some of the things to look for: heavy duty frame or double frame, 4:11 or 4:33 gears, non air suspension (mine is a chalmers), air ride cab. As far as the transmisson goes, my best choice would be a 13 or 15 speed. An 18 speed is overkill in most dump truck applications if you are not low on power. With 4:11 or 4:33 gears, you don't really need all the low gears found in an 18 speed. My rear end ratio is 4:33 and I have yet to find a hill I can't start out on by just letting out the clutch with no throttle. My transmission is a 10 speed, and I have never wanted for more gears in the low range. With my 500hp engine, I have never wanted for more gears in the upper range either, but the 13 speeds are nice being able to split the top range in the hills if necessary. I live and work in the hills and and have driven 13 speeds in them. As far as horsepower is concerned, I am with the larger is better crowd. Although 500hp is overkill for most dump truck applications, it is sure nice to have. I get great mileage with mine because I don't really have to work it that hard. For those times when the truck is full and I am hauling my equipment trailer with something on it, I am forever greatful for the extra hp. I believe that with 400hp or more coupled with a 13 speed, you would be fine in the hills and get decent mileage. In the hills, the torque rating is more important than hp, so I would make sure you don't get one of the lower torque motors found in some on road trucks. For instance some 400/430hp motors come with about 1300ft/lb torque and others come with around 1450/1500ft/lb torque. A 430hp motor with 1450ft/lb torque would be just fine for you. The pre 1990 (approx) trucks, although turboed, don't have air to air coolers and usually get poorer mileage as a result. It is possible to ad air to air coolers to the older ones, but sometimes it can be a pita and expensive. I would look for 90 and newer for this reason. With fuel prices the way they are, a 1mpg difference can really make a difference to the bottom line in a years time. One thing about taking your time and doing a thorough search is that you learn a lot along the way. When you do find what you are looking for, you will have all the knowledge you gained along the way and it makes it easier to make a decision and pull the switch. Good luck.
Thanks great advice! Thats what i'm doing now just out looking and learing.
IMO, this is spot on. I've always said an underpowered truck not only will not have the longevity compared to one of higher horsepower, but the "fatigue factor" of having to drive a toilet all day is also a major issue. I've driven a fair amount of different types of trucks in my day, and have done the math along the way as well. Fuel milage is a big concern nowadays as much as scheduled maint. Bigger HP doesn't necessarily mean 500-600 horse, but a 380-400 N-14, or a C-13 Cat in that range does a heck of a job at decent operational cost as opposed to smaller, less HP. I just left a job where there was a '99 4964 Western Star all 100% Canadian built dumptruck...spoke wheels and all. It had a 3406E and an 18 spd., 20K front 58K rears. That thing was a nice truck to drive. All the power you want, all the range of gears, and with that Chalmers rubber pad suspension, you couldn't make that thing lean with a load if you tried. And it got 5.5 m.p.g. around town. Sure was a big leap from the B-61 I learned on.
I agree with lowboy and downey . I would also point out that when driving an under powered Trk. it gets easy to drive to fast trying to keep momentum up. Also having had a logging operation you should be familar with off road operations The pictures of that Int . look like a clean trk. But some of the Int. cabs were not very good. Take A RIDE in it and make sure that you want to spend the day in it. I had a customer who had an int. that the truck was great . But he also said the engineer who designed the Cab should taken out and shot! And He refused to drive it himself - this is not to say that all their cabs are bad because they are not
Coming Home to lunch today, There was about a 2 mile traffic bacK up where there should not have Been.Contiental Paving (one the biggest in st.) had a triaxle delivering hottop to another Co. fixing a basin. - There are a lot worse rds. in town, so I DO NOT know if this is road repair or prep for paving
I meant to add I doubt they would tie their own truck up with such a time comsuming job if they were overloaded with work
I think thats one of the things that worries me about it. Cab looks ok but it is just a bare bones cab, not much in the way of creture comforts. But mechanically it seemed pretty good.
Well just got off phone fiding out max gvw can register for, 3 axles max of 55,000# with over weight 65,000#. Over weight with 4 axles is 73,000#. Guess that really puts things more into perspective. sure don't need no 78,000# tandem if all I can register for is 65,000# or an 88,000# for 73,000#.
truck This is a great truck, I had one of them. These Cummins are tough engines. I installed a Red Dot A/C unit, about $1500 and it would freeze you. I did sell the truck and up graded to a newer model, but the older truck did the same work and got the same money per hour. I just bought a 2000 Sterling and it has computer issues, taking it to the computer doctor tommorrow, always big bucks. Im not famaliar with a 444 Cummins, mine had a Cummins 350
Not being in a big hurry is a great idea, we got our tandem this year, and almost pulled the trrigger on a few "marginal" trrucks but waited on it and ended up with exactly what I wanted, paid a bit more but in the end its worth it. Another factor is that it is fall, so the truck work will slow down in a couple months, you will probably get a better deal as dump truck season ends, you could haul logs until spring works starts up again. Good Luck!!
Another thing to keep in mind is the hydraulics, or lack there of. A 'direct mount' pump is better than a driveline driven one. Make sure that it is a '3-line' system. For a tri-axle, make sure that you have at the very least, a 70 gal reservoir. If its an automatic tranny make sure it has a 'hot shift pto' etc.
Thanks Scrodo Baggins!!
Your welcome. If you have any questions regarding the components or the equipment feel free to ask. My specialty is not on the truck end of the industry but on the equipment side.
By "direct mount" I'm sure he's referring to a Commercial Shearing or equivelent setup that uses a PTO/Pump that's "married together", not having a shaft between them. It's not life threatening to have a shaft driven pump, but the most common nowadays would be a 1 piece unit. Remember also, the higher the PTO percentage, the less you'll have to rev the motor to raise the body, so if you're thinking of putting a pump on, keep that in mind. You can buy 115%-120% PTO's from the dealers. Nothing worse than having to mat the pedal to get the body to go up. Also, that 444 Cummins was common for it to fog up the entire neighborhood especially on initial startup in the morning. They had issues with that because of the variable step timing, injectors, etc., but they were still a great motor all in all.
Wet Line I am in the process of looking for a single axle dump truck. I've seen on a number of postings for the bigger trucks - but never for a S/A - that it has a 'wet line' setup. A post earlier in this thread said the same thing. So my question is: what is a 'wet line' setup?
wet line Wet line is hydraulics installed for either dump body or dump trailer. I dont think I have ever heard of wet line used in relations to a dump truck. Now its common to hear of wet line on a single axle road truck/tractor, it is used to hook up to a dump trailer, lowboy, etc. Its a automatic statement, that a dump truck must have a wet line/hydraulics to operate the dump body. The only other idea that comes to mine and Im not familar with them are pup trailers, I'm thinking the truck must have a wet line to operate the pup dump trailer Hope this helps
Wet Line Ahhh, OK, that makes sense. Thank you!
Some Websites to Check Here are a list of the website I've been looking on to find a dump truck: * http://www.ebay.com * http://www.mylittlesalesman.com * http://www.craigslist.com * http://www.ironworkscorp.com * http://www.equipmentready.com * http://www.truckpaper.com * http://www.trucker.com * http://www.equipmenttraderonline.com * http://www.rockanddirt.com * http://www.truckertotrucker.com * http://www.truckntrailer.com * http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com * http://autos.aol.com * http://www.oodle.com Of these, ebay, craigslist and commercialtrucktrader seem to be the best. Truck N Trailer's website is really terrible, but you can subscribe to their print magazine from their website. Good luck on your search!
Hydraulic pump with storage tank run by the trucks PTO which could be used to raise a dump trailer hoist or power a walking floor on a trash trailer/ bark mulch/wood chip trailer. Usually on a tandem axle tractor.
'Wet line' is just referring to the hydraulics. I'd be interested to see the context in which it is being used. Typically one would say, "2 line or 3 line", "wet kit" but different locations use different terminology. A standard 'wet kit' for an end dump would include the following... PTO - Power take-off Dump pump - hydraulic pump cab controls - to operate the pto and pump hoses - hydraulic lines (plumbing) Hydraulic tank - reservoir Filter - hydraulic filter setup on the return line to the tank additional components my include a selector valve to operated a pup trailer.
Was looking at a 2004 Sterling 10 wheeler today. I think I will buy it, just waiting for a check from the current job I am doing. Am I nuts to buy anything in todays economy? I can pay cash, so no payment.
I don't see why not if you have use for it.
As PSDF350 said, if you have work for it and it is a good truck, then why not. If you are paying cash for it in todays down market, you should be able to get a real good deal on it. Not many are in a position to do that, so you are in a good negotiating situation. Good luck.
Unless you are an excavator and need dump trucks for your own work stay away from them. Drivers are the worst headache. You won't make any money doing custom hauling and they take more time to maintain than everything else I have around here put together.
My experiences... First of all the HP! Big HP id the way to go. It's better to have too much HP than not enough.You ca always back off the throttle, but once you hit the floor, that's all there is. As for the cab, I like the Ford LTL for comfort, and I'm 6'2" and 389 lbs. If you want to see something funny, watch me try to fit into a R model Mack! Those R's are a size 30 regular and I'm a size 60 driver! The newer KW, Pete's. Mack Granites, Sterlings, Freight Shakers and Internationals seem to be made for a bigger driver! Here is the things about older L Series Ford trucks: The cab is engine specific. The doghouse is made to fit the engine that is in the truck. If you should find one in your price range, keep away from the 2 stroke Detroit, and the 3208 Cat! Transmission. Most dump specific are equipped with the 8LL also know as the 9 speed with 5 under! Watch you can get the OD (overdrive) version where the right 2 are backward. From second you move the shift lever over to the right and BACK for 3/7, and toward the dash for 4/8! After about a day you'll get used to it! Also try to avoid automatics. They are great for plowing snow, but loose too much torque for loaded road use! Anything less than a quad doesn't work as much! 5 axles including the steer are a perfect size! Big enough to haul a payload, and still small enough to maneuver in tight places!Make sure that you lift/pusher axles are steerable. Then you won't be lifting and dropping your axles to make turns. Also while on lift axles, some won't operate until the parking brake is off! Also make sure the PTO, bed, gate and lift axle controls are in a comfortable place, and you can operate them with out smashing or pinching your fingers! Our Mack CL700 has the controls all within reach! But if you go PTO, Bed, and Gate, you'll also get an ouch in there because in that order they hit each other! As for the rear differentials, stay away form the 38,000. They are to light even for a tandem. Look for the 44,000 to 46,000 rears. Also look for a 4:11 to 4:33 ratio. The steeper gearing is to get the load moving faster. I don't care about a triple digit truck! The speed limit here is still 55 for trucks! I'd rather be able to get from 0 to 55 in 2 minutes, than be able to go 85! Get a STEEL BED. With a steel bed you can haul anything! You can't haul demo or concrete in an aluminum bed and have it last! If you need a P Hook, bolt it on! One of your best bets is to get signed up with a paving company! P hooks tear up paver and berm box hoppers! In Ohio we have to have 1 yellow flashing light or strobe beacon type of light to enter and exit the work zone. REMEMBER to turn it off, because once out on the highway, a yellow beacon means 1 thing OVERLOAD. Either you over width, length, or height! You don't want to get pulled over for not having the OVERSIZE LOAD banner displayed! Springs are the best way to go! Never tipped one from a broken spring! If you get a deal on air or double air, ALWAYS dump the air ride before you raise the bed! And no matter what suspension you have never raise the bed at more than a 5 degree angle! That rule usually keeps the tires on the ground! If you plan on hauling hot rock (AKA asphalt) the truck MUST have a tarp as per EPA regs. My philosophy is: I don't crank start my car, kick start my bike, and I'm NOT going to hand crank my tarp! ELECTRIC tarps are the way to go. More I finding on State jobs, single arm tarps are not meeting the states requirements. Therefore I recommend a sliding bow tarp (aka a roll tarp) Also look for a bed heater. These are nothing more than a valve on the exhaust that you flip manually that directs exhaust into the bed cavity heating the bulkhead and floor. Great for keeping the asphalt hot and the bed so the hot rock slides right out! A couple of quart spray bottles for cleaning the apron and latches with diesel, and your ready to make some money. The rest you'll learn from doing it! Sometimes you can make out hauling tonnage, but its better to find hourly work, and paving usually pays by the hour, and the rate is determined by how big your truck is. Our rates are: 50.00 an hr for 3 axles (including the steer) 55.00 for a 4 axle 60.00 for a 5 axle *** My Choice 65.00 for a 6 axle 70.00 for a 7 axle or semi! Oh I almost forgot about the Flowboy! These are end dumps where the floor is a belt that pushes the load out of the gate! The bed stays on the frame! Their problem is they are asphalt specific! You can haul material, but you'll have a mad loader at the dump end because they don't stack very well! Feel free to PM me for more info!
You get what you pay for there Greg! If you're only paying $9.00 and hr with no OT, then your going to get a driver that is either ready to retire, or one that can't find work in the with a good company because lack of! A motivated driver will be in the yard checking fluids and pre-tripping daily! when a motivated driver tells you there is a problem, and the problem is not taken care of, the this drive becomes less motivated! Motivation is like a disease. Positive motivation catches people as much as negative motivation. Driver are people too. If you feel that drivers are a dime a dozen, then you get those 10cent drivers. Just don complain when your equipment is not pre-tripped, drivers show up late and try to leave early, runs into things and plain just don't care! The morel here is drivers reflect the environment they are in! REMEMBER that!
Thanks Rino great post lots of great info. Thanks!!! As for number of axles though around here you have single double and tri. There are no quads or more rear axle trucks running here. Again thanks!!
Give me a break!!! $9.00 an hour? Didn't pay that 19 years ago!! Can't find people around here worth a s--- for $20.00 an hour.If you are sending out quads for $60.00 an hour you are loosing your backside with fuel prices where they are. Mine only go out on my work where I can bill them at $75.00 to $80.00 an hour. Drivers or nothing else around here is a dime a dozen. Maybe in Barberton, Oh where you are, but not here.
While on subject of big hp power, why is it so many macks seem to come with 300hp and 6 speeed trans?
I often wondered that too Dave. I used to drive an Autocar with a 6/71 Detroit rated at 238hp. I could never understand why a Mack DM600 with a 237hp Maxidyne could walk right away from me with the hp so close. A Mack that has an all Mack drive train has their horsepower measured at the ground, where other trucks use various components and advertise flywheel horsepower. There are power losses through the rest of the drivetrain that don't get measured in this case, and horsepower to the ground is much less than at the flywheel.
I always heard that a purebred Mack would make 50 more HP than they advertised? Is that true? does Mack still figure HP this way?
Thanks Steve!!
I don't know if it is 50 HP or not, but my Bull Dogs would leave a 6-71 Detroit in the dust and a E6 300 Horse would pull away from a 350 Cummins. As for now, as far as I am concerned all bets are off with the 2007 emissons standards and the big changes the Volvo ownership has put into the Macks since its purchase. Mack has lost a tremendous amount of business here because of the changes. If I were to buy today it would have to be a Mack built prior to probably 2002 or 03 or a Pete 2006 and back.
Thanks Greg!!!
Hey Willisbushogging saw this on ebay it's in your neck of the woods. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ryZ63734QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Dump truck I used to own that truck, I traded it in on a 98 Int quad. This was and is a good truck, yes its a 79, but its been through a bunch of DOT inspection stops and passed everytime. If anyone wants a cheap quad axle, this is a work horse. I just put a new pumkin in the back rear. Great 18ft bed, with high sides, I installed a 2 way tailgate (barndoor) for trash/debris. OK I sound like a used car salesman, The ONLY reason I traded was I got a good deal on a newer truck (with automatic) If anyone needs a cheap truck in the NC area, this guy buys them from the bank (repos) I have bought 4 from him and none of them has had a major problem. I will be glad to pass his phone to anyone thats wants a truck, car, equipment,trailers, dump trucks, etc, just send me a PM. If the business doesnt pick up, I might be selling one of mine.
Small world, guess I was right though that you might like it. Or should I say liked it>
Greg: I didn't mean to sound the way I did in my post! Usually if you have turnover, or just a lack of interest, around here is an indicator of a problem. There is one outfit here that hires their drivers as "independent contractors" then doesn't pay them overtime! They withhold income taxes and SSI taxes as well as unemployment! But they get Drivers year after year! Go Figure! If your case is the latter, them the drivers around you are spoiled! The average wage here is $12.00 to $13.00 to start. Some of the higher paying jobs only pay about $17.00 to $18.00! Union jobs pay more some in part to Prevailing Wage! Mostly, if your non-union, you don't get Prevailing! Again I meant NO offense!
Problem around here is the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country. If you acceptthe premise that 5.0% of the population is unemployable and we are almost always below that figure than we are beyond full employment. Locally we have a lot of state jobs, college jobs, etc. etc. So, we are beyond full employment. Add to that the "nobody seems to want to work" syndrom and it totals out to nobody to get here that is worth a s---. Oh, ya, as far as prevailing goes, if you put out a truck on a "white sheet" job with a hired driver in it you just plain hemorage money because of the truck hourly rate. I have seen a lot of trucking operations start up around here and fail within 2 to 3 years because of the driver problem. As far as the outfit that hires as independent contractors, no OTT but holds taxes I would hate to be in their shoes when the "man" knocks on th door for an audit. He will call them all employees and look out baby cause both shoes will fall.
Here in OH Ten, the wage and hour division is supposed to do the audits according to the Feds. The state says its the feds job to conduct audits! Because of this difference, I don't think Ohio has been audited in over 50 years! P.S. Glad to hear your state is doin good!
I am not talking about a state audit. I am talking about the Feds. I wouldn't say our state is doing a good job. It is more like pathetic job in everything they look at. Only way anybody gets audited for "white sheet" jobs is if somebody turns them in. Several years ago one guy out here tried paying all his drivers in cash. No Federal or State witholding done, no unemployment paid in, no workers compensation insurance, no nothing. Then one of his laid off guys went into sign up for unemployment. You can't imagine the pile of stuff that hit the fan. Lost his trucks, sand pit, everything there was.
Greg: Was that after the State sent in their bean counter to effect payment? A company I worked for in the past laid of their drivers and forgot to pay one drivers unemployment taxes! The State froze the company assets, then sent out a bean counter. The owner couldn't sign a check for 50 cents with a dollar cash! This well seasoned woman went over the books for the previous year to figure out if the payment might have gottten mis-directed! When she got done she'd been there of more than a month and notified the company of a Federal audit! The Fed's never showed up!The company has changed names 3 times since, and the only ones who got the bad end were the rank and file employees! I got out of there as quick as I could find another job!
I think Fed-Ex is finding the independent contractor thing to be very difficult- IRS is all over them saying their drivers are not independent- even though they own there own trucks.
Willis- Are you still looking for a single axle dump truck? I have one for you. I Have a great little truck for you.
Welcome detrckin:drinkup I think it's important that you find out early, if you are going to strike up a conversation about equipment that you have, you need to post a pic of it to keep us all happy, so what I am trying to say is you need to post a pic of your truck, and tell us a little bit about it :thumbsup
Quiet understandable about a pic. My problem here is, it's been too cold too start the truck. No block heater-its inside but too cold too try an start. (cold meaning -10 ta 5 above. Next chance I get I'll start her an get a pic. Truck is a 2000, 4900 single axle, 12000-21000, 210 hrs. powerstroke, auto. air, cruise, new rubber, 64000 miles, spotless, never seen the salt. white cab, black 10 ft. box-with air gate,an brakes. Budd wheels. With receiver hitch. Elec. tarp comes with. Came from the city of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Inside an out new condition. Drives an shifts perfect. Truck is like new. $25,000 firm. Hope this helps. Dave
I'm buying a backhoe and need a dump truck too - to load gravel out of a creekbed and haul to a private road less than a mile away. Will all be done on my property - not on any public roads. I've been thinking a single axle "2 ton" would be best to get around in the creek bed - but someone told me yesterday a dual axle would be better. Any suggestions? Due to the short haul, and that I will be working by myself, the size of the load is immaterial. Thanks.
The independent contractor is a very simple thing to utilize. An individual is an independent contractor if they own, maintain and provide the equipment which they use, provide their own insurance and provide proof of it to the company they are contracted to, pay their own unemployment, federal and state taxes and oh ya, one other thing have a written contract in place with the people you hire as independent contractors.
I guess if that's all you need a truck for,I'd buy a older tandem. It all depends on how much material you have too move. I guess if it was over 450-500 yds. I'd pick up an older tandem for $3-5000. You can always sell it. If you buy too small of a truck, you'll only have problems. A tandem on uneven ground would be perfect for you. Loader up.. Hope that helped. EXPERIENCE COUNTS
His truck is nice, see it around town a lot. Are you getting a big truck again?
:thumbsup
Hey thanks for the compliment. I'm looking at getting just a nice tandem. For what I'm doing, it would suit me perfect. You can't make money working by the hour with fuel as high as it was. I got a chance too sell my quad on May. 15th. And I let it go. Right now I have my eye on a really nice tandem kenworth.
Watch out for Fords detrckin KW's are nice, they have room and the stigma of still being a KW! Make sure you'll have enough power! Also since you planning to work a creek bed, try to find one that not only has diff lock but wheel lock or inter axle lock to boot! I'm not saying for example to pass up a 2007 with a c14 cat and 8LL trans for $5,000.00 from the Truck Farie! But also don't jump on the first Ford for $3000.00 just bcause of the price! REMEMBER: a split HP Cat or Cummins in a KW cab will NOT go into the high HP mode unless the cruise is armed! The computer keeps it in normal mode which is the lower HP! Example a C13 Cat is 385/430 HP! You'll never use the 430 HP mode until the cruise is armed. It's just the way KW does things! There are millions of the L series Fords built! Ford is their own animal! The exhaust is a cluster**** of engine man. and Ford! Lighting is like a car with the turn/brake on the same circuit! There are 3 or 4 different dash packages offered, and the p/s system was designed to leak! On the older models with the hyd steering assist cyl. on the passengers side is prone to blow the end cap off, since it's only pressed on! The newer LTL's have 2 leaking steering boxes! If you buy a Ford, make sure you buy a extra large bottle of asprin too.
rino, I'm not the one doing creek bed work. But you advice was great, I agree completely.