Been to the local Hydraulic shop more than had in the last four years, shop is nuts, stacks LITERALLY stacks of cylinders, motors, pumps for repair or inspection, machines In the shop and on the yard where allows for little parking. Four issues, available technician shortage where seems few to any want to enter, shop is EPA permitted and to add on or build anew or even to just swap to a larger facility will take MONTHS to Years of EPA evals, other shops are shutting down due to age of owners, age of employees or both and unable to entice the remnant workers into this shop, last, the dealerships for HE are sending out their own work due to SAME conditions where he is getting much of it. Pretty sad to see, and the techs are burning out.
I just don't understand why anyone would bother with them. If you have an up and running place, just open a shop somewhere else that no public traffic would ever see. Take the extra work there, then bring it back to the 'retail location' when completed.
The fines are fairly severe WHEN caught. Oils, Solvents, cleaning materials, trash with oil contaminates, metal residuals from building cylinders or rebuilding them, it all ends up poorly.
If one is conscientious with safety and environmental practices, that should be a non issue. What judge would grant a search warrant in a private farm/home/garage for a potential 'business venture' that may or may not be 'up to snuff'. Keep the 'other location' on the down low and one would never have any issues. I would laugh at any prosecutor that would attempt to prove a business venture was happening vs. a home hobby.
One way around this would be for the techs to be mobile. That way all the dismantling and reassembly is at the clients premises and that is where most of the oil is spilt. Any machining and fitting of parts takes place back at the hydraulic shop. I know of an out fit who does this mostly because of a lack of space.
These guys are already road techs. The overflow from those that CAN bring stuff to them is what is at the shop. As I picked up the PTO shaft pieces they were accepting a auto parts factory(Henninges of New Haven MO) load of machine cylinders and control valves, FOUR heaped pallets of goods, they then picked up the last load that was ready to go back. About the same time a excavation company from MN called as to the cylinders their local Deere Dealer sent from their machines, estimating time of return shipment, two to three weeks. Any and everything under the Sun as to hydraulic or hydromechanical even had an old White farm tractor sitting outside getting a pump replaced. Trash trucks, electrically safe boom trucks, not seen the likes of it and has five service trucks running amok Every work day. Local trucking company has two trucks sitting there to get unloader blowers installed aside the already installed Hydraulic pump drives, doing double duty dump truck/wet kit or dry bulk trailer deliveries. Only seventeen employees on the floor and five wives of employees doing the office work.
That's OK, I can work anytime I want to or not. I can almost name any price I want now. Life is getting expensive for everyone.
Sounds like an opportunity for someone that likes working with hydro cylinders & such . For me it was cost prohibitive to remove a cylinder & take it to a shop for repair . Hydro shop cat's in my area are pretty proud of there work when it comes to money $ . Always the long sad story of how hard it was to rebuild the cylinder ……. " We ran in to this " and " Had to do that " , " took longer then expected " . After one episode of that BS we decided to keep it all " in house " on the repairs . It aint like were tryin to put another feller on the Moon , just need a cylinder rebuilt cost effective fellers . HeavyEquipmentForums
This shop is the most effective I have been thru as to least expense and best service attainable. They are now getting 75% of their business from the HE dealers in the region as those shops cannot compete time or quality wise. Pretty amazing when a 17 man shop can out perform even overloaded the structured dealers.
There is a severe shortage of experienced service techs in all areas, and its not going to get better anytime soon.
Most every shops problems start at the top with poor management just like everything else it the mechanics that get the blame If they started treating them like there business depended on it quit whining that they don't have the time and money to train on the job instead of only wanting to hire experienced mechanics there is just not that many good experienced mechanics wandering around looking for a job there never has been they either are happy with a current job, have issues and cant keep a job , or go on there own your only choice is to work people up and you will lose plenty that cant do the job thats part of doing business same as any other industry but because that sounds like a lot of work and might cut into the bosses time off they just keep leaning harder on the guys that keep the place afloat
Ever hear the term helicopter parents from the nineties, well these days the term is bulldozer parents. Unfortunately this work problem started years ago and has progressed to the point where we are today. Parents have bulldozed the obstacles out of the path of their children and spoiled them rotten in many cases, not all cases but a very high percentage of them. The work the people do on this forum is dirty work and most of it doesn't come with six figure income either. Face it the main population have become lazy and followers. JFK said it well {We do things because they are hard}. I find it interesting people going to the gym to stay in shape, 40 years ago they stayed in shape because they worked and earned their food, today they don't work and the food they eat is garbage and it shows on the waste line. Physical challenge and pride in workmanship/skill has taken a back seat to phony personal gain and ego. Something my dad would say from time to time, {A mans success should never be deemed by the amount of presidents he has in his wallet}. My dad, Charles W. Flake 1st Sargent Master-If you didn't believe the army was the army Charley would point it out to you real straight and right now. Truck Shop
This is hard work and people are allergic to that. We have classes of high schoolers walk through the shop on tours and very few apply We see very few incoming experienced mechanics. Not that I’m complaining for the value of my skills and knowledge will only go up.
I know at least two boys that will grow up knowing it and one girl who’s watched it her whole life, she’s not going to bend wrenches but she knows what I’ve done to provide for her and she appreciates it. Right now that’s the best I can do!
I believe it was Thomas Edison who said "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in coveralls and looks like work".
I just got off the phone with a local Freightliner service manager, there offering a $7,500 signing bonus to try to hire mechanics. Truck Shop
Our retention and recruitment manager came around asking those of us who had been there 4-6 years why so many were leaving the company I flat out told her that other places were paying more, offering sign on bonuses and yearly bonuses, better profit sharing, better perks (tool allowances, for instance) and so on.
I think 5 years from now a true mechanic will get paid 6 figures to many old guys on there way out and even people fill there spot with no depth of experience they can't do a lot and are to scared to figure it out cause the laptop wont tell them I know some plumbers that are just hired hands that make over 70 thousand without over time I think that trend will continue
Thing is a lot of the wrench business is just thinking logically. I've gotten thrown onto quite a few jobs this past month where guys have spent hours troubleshooting faults with no success. One or two of these jobs I had the issues fixed in under an hour. Most of it was basic stuff like chaffed wiring harnesses causing sensors to ground out. One harness was literally right in plain sight!
True story here, I saw job posted for a local dealership so I applied, after MUCH hassling around with the online 3 party recruitment people, I call the dealers service manager directly and he says he hasn't seen my resume, but please come in and talk. I arrive and we have a nice talk and discuss my experience and what not, so he asks what the $ expectations I have and I reply it's posted for $20-$30 an hour and I need the upper amount or very close to it. He answers the job pays $20, MAYBE $21 an hour, I thank him for his time and say if I'm changing jobs, it won't be for less or the same amount of $, I'm only moving up. I realize I'm a unknown quantity, but 35 years in the trade should be worth more. It isn't different at other places really either, then they whine how they can't find good help, with tool requirements that go from 3/4" drive down to 1/4" with all the sockets in impact and chrome, deep, mid, and shallow. Wrenches from 2" down, Torque wrenches, 100 kinds of screwdrivers, and everything else you have to have, and generally multiples of all the above because time is split between shop and field work in a truck. This isn't 5 years ago where 10 people applied for one job, now they have two or three openings and no takers and wonder why, you have to get out of the old thought process and realize you are going to have to PAY WELL then you can get good people. Rant over.
Actually real talent is being able to free hand drill out the three long thermostat bolts through both aluminum sections on a 3406 and keep that drill dead center. lol Truck Shop
If you hit the threads they were bad-stripped anyway! Helicoils are made for a reason!
What was her reaction/reply to your comments ?
Spoke to a shop mechanic where I worked LONG ago, all the 'Old Guys' retired or moved on, the shop has sold to the Third buyer and they cannot get decent help. Turns out the top wage in the shop is $21.35/hr at chargeable rate, most of the guys are starving as the shop only draws those jobs that nobody else will work, RVs, Old obsolete machines patch jobs, conversions that failed and those jobs are thinning as they cannot get them done quality enough. The dealers are not much better around here, have a entry level wage for Anyone that comes in no matter the skill sets or levels, cannot draw talent. In our little corner of the state I am seeing more field mechanics, trucks well set up with booms, welders, even parts supplies as the guys that are tired of the crappy conditions and low pay fend for themselves. Their biggest complaints is the manufacturers trying to keep the electronics work and diagnostics proprietary where the computer laptop software has become so expensive and constantly changing/upgrading.
We buy distressed mobile homes, rehab them, and use them for rentals. We find it nearly impossible to find good help. We have 1 good guy. We would like to have 3 crews running. At this point, because of past experience, I refuse to pay someone $25-$30/hr to start. It is too expensive to give them a week to settle in and produce only to have to fire them, then go back in an fix everything they did.
I can only hope that at some time those in charge of some of these companies come to the realization that the systems of equipment has evolved faster than they understand. Seems to many upper level people still think the systems are just a slightly modified version of say the electrical system on my old Farmall BN tractor. I would say your average heavy equipment machine like a 773 Cat or 988H Cat loader or such is built with more technology than what was needed to send a man to the moon! Heck a two year old cell phone probably has more computing power than NASA had back in the early 1970's! I would be interested to hear from people from different areas of the world to see if this is a common problem world over or just in certain areas. On a somewhat side note to this problem. A couple weeks back I was at the quarry where I retired from and was talking to the guy got stuck trying to take over my job with only a couple weeks working with me. Being for the last 15 years I was a one man shop, chief mechanic and floor sweeper I knew where all the tools and parts were stored. No way in a short two weeks I could pass on all the information to him! Well he happened to mention that the "subscription" for Cat ET had expired about two years ago and the various layers of management had not got around to renewing it! What the *&^%$! While this is not a super large quarry with hundreds of Cat machines there are about a dozen various Cats there that are new enough to have ports to connect to the computer and they don't see the need or advantage to have ready access to Cat ET? Add to it that this quarry is part of one of the two or three largest aggregates/cement producing companies in the world, not just some small mom and pop operation! The only hope I have for this part of the company is that the regional manager is set to retire in February of 2019 have my fingers crossed that who ever comes in to replace him has a different outlook on what is important. Then again I would not be investing my retirement funds in this company!
Can feel that pain Hansen, all too many managers have absolutely NO CLUE as to what is required and another many do NOT CARE to learn. They expect the shop tech(s) to take that ball and run with without their having to spend a dime or the time to invest in the details.
Well if you can do that three time in a row I bow down to your skill! I got pretty lucky getting broken bolts out but not 100% of the time!
At the company that I worked for back in the 70's as a road mechanic my wage was $9.50 / hour. The company rate was 21.50 / hour. When i finally moved on I was at 12.50 and the company was at 42.00. Today the mechanics don't make 20.00 and the company rate is 150.00. They keep on loosing customers due to the fact they can't draw interest from good qualified people and they think a mechanic should supply even very specialized tools and test equipment. I carried my own personal scope with me because of some of the specialized equipment that we worked on. This kept most of our customers and picked up quite a few more due to the fact that we actually diagnosed problems rather than just parts changing. When my scope started to fail, mainly due to road travel, they didn't want to replace it. I found out they even charged extra to the customer for the "convienience" but of course none of it ended up in my pocket. I believe today they still have the same attitude, go figure.
It's amazing how top heavy college degrees make a company why it take so many managers to run a dealer is beyond me not to mention I know some managers that make 3 times what the floor help makes and doesn't know what side of a tool box opens To many places have hired people that read a book about managing a business and they think it's as simple as that as most on this forum know to understand how to run a shop you need to be in one for a while and you should work for a good one and a bad one then you can really learn how to do things You can't eat experience but you will never beat experience either
In navy parlance that is known as being top heavy. You what happens when a ship is top heavy? It rolls over.
Last guy I worked for had a teaching degree. He couldn't handle teaching third graders let alone manage equipment.
Nige's theory of management - "**** floats" ........ Truck Shop's comment about people now going to the gym after work where years ago work was their gym. "If you have enough energy to visit the gym after work then you ain't workin' hard enough". I said that to one of our managers the other day and got a reaaaaaally weird look in return. But hey ho, he ain't my boss so I really don't give a rat's ***.
I've got 4 people above me, barking out orders Mon-Fri. Sad thing is everything goes smoother on weekends when its just us 3 field guys working. We handle it all no problem, no drama.
Some people have to justify their existence. Add to that ego and underlying inferiority complexes and you have a manager! lol. I actually had a Cat tech call me when he was sent out to work on a competitors Cat mounted drill rig! I laughed and said have a nice day, good luck. Click. It wasn’t him so much as the competitor. No way I was helping them. If a business savvy guy with experience in shop work could assemble the right guys and pay them well I think he could make a killing. Question is.....how long would it take to assemble that team? Most of the dealerships, yellow iron or trucks, have such ridiculous overhead they have to charge what they do to keep the lights on and the doors open. Honestly I don’t give a rat’s *** if they have a Kureg for me to get a cup of coffee or seven 40” flat screens touting their latest development. I just want the parts I need and an informed opinion when I need it. They’re so caught up in selling the sizzle the have forgotten about selling SERVICE!
Just to add it is not that much different for us that are self employed. I have a customer I started with a couple of years back with that started like most with the call " so or so gave me your number could you take a look at..." Well things go well and I repair and do maintenance on his equipment right to the point where his operators will call me direct so I call the owner and ask "so or so called me and this whatever is doing this or that, can you take a look at it?" The owner replies " Ya just do it, do whatever those guys need" Well recently I handed him an invoice, he looked at then looked at me and said " You know I don't know what the hell I'm paying you for nothing is broke."
Time to back up and let his guys call him for repairs for awhile. Some just get tired of footing a bill when they do not feel the pain.
Is there any chance that's just him being sarcastic? Like, you're doing such a great job nothing's ever broken? Or is he just that much of a d!ck that he won't really appreciate what you do until he has a few machines and employees sitting on the sidelines???
Same attitude I dealt with from the top man in the state for the company. About the first thing he said when being put in his position after they fired a great manager was to say,"I don't know anything about making stone, BUT I know how to make money!" This is the same guy who felt paying for Government required annual safety training qualified as training for maintenance personnel. Sure we knew not to climb in an enclosed space with out breathing apparatus or not to lean a aluminum ladder up against a 23,000 volt line on a rainy day but did nothing to help learn how to diagnose the electronics on a 980K Cat loader! I'd say that in my last few years working there I learned as much here on HEF as I did from any company supplied training. Back when I started in the shop when there were eight or ten guys pulling wrenches every year at least half of us went to a week long factory class on some machine and during the year there would be a few one or two day classes at the shop by various vendors.
My current employer thinks they can get away with having me part 48 a/b trained for Underground, then send a 46 guy with when I need a hand. I explained that he/they are discounting not only the 46 guys safety but mine as well. Having a hard time figuring out how to push this much further as every "little " talking point usually escalates into a confrontation. Don't want to involve the union if possible. When it comes to mine and quarry safety , and MSHA, I ain't interested in fu@%$ng around. There is no grey area in their little books.
And quick as a flash the smarta$$ reply should have been..... "Nothing is broke because of the work that invoice covers"
When any of them start barking, ask 'em to show you their dog licence............
This probably happens in some cases, but in my experience, it's often the opposite. Experienced shop floor guys will get all up in arms that the company went outside and hired a recent college graduate to be the manager. What they don't realize is that the new hire kid is probably making half the salary of the guys he is managing. That's very common in industries with skilled employees. It's not like working at McDonalds where you run a cash register for 6 months and then get "promoted" to fry cook, then after a year they give you another $.25/hour and make you manager. A skilled guy with 25 years in might make $35/hr or more. The 25 year old manager might come in at $20/hr. Since the manager does nothing for the actual bottom line, it's easy to justify cheeping out. I'm saying it's right. The skills gap will close right up when the pay matches the skills required.
I've been through three of these cycles in my life and this one is completely different. First off there are a whole lot more jobs more lucrative and easier on the body than fixing equipment. The economy has more jobs than applicants to fill them. There has been no major war that finished and spilled thousands of highly or partially trained people into a work force that could absorb them. The people in education have thumbed their noses at the trades and the trade unions don't have any clout anymore concerning apprenticeships and training. The only way a tradesman can make a good living wage and have a satisfying experience is being on their own. That unfortunately takes experience and business acumen. Add to all that a permissive society that doesn't require accountability for poor morals, ethics and work performance and you have the perfect storm.
HERE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions Good description of feminism and personality disorders within our worldwide gynocentric societies; the teachers, media talking heads, HR department staff, most gov office positions-city, county, state and fed blah, blah... 2010 article quotes by Cat's Richard Douglas, "New generations prefer working with computers more than with their hands. The rapid growth of computers, computer based games and wireless technology has reduced the available pool of people interested in doing difficult manual labor ”. "In addition, engines and systems are getting very complex, difficult, and expensive to service. New service technicians must be more intelligent and better trained than ever before". Reference: https://www.fuelsinstitute.org/geta...Fuel-Filtration-for-Off-Road-Applications.pdf
Dick Douglas, now there's a blast from the past. A very knowledgable man where the Cat world was concerned. Unfortunately when he retired, like everyone else of his generation, everything between his ears went out the door with him when he left for the last time.
↑ John C Add to all that a permissive society that doesn't require accountability for poor morals, ethics and work performance and you have the perfect storm. StanRUS Good description of feminism and personality disorders within our worldwide gynocentric societies; the teachers, media talking heads, HR department staff, most gov office positions-city, county, state and fed blah, blah. Todays labor market, through government regulation , coddles the meatheads. Some people weren't meant and aren't capable of performing the work that we do. I've had to work along side folks where I wondered how they survived this long. Darwin should have taken them long ago. Safety regs being what they are, have kept this joker alive to risk your life in the workplace. Some are just a trainwreck of drug abuse and poor decisions. HR says,"its a disease. " No , it's IGNORANCE! Then there is the poor fella that just got a bad hand in life, not his fault, but a risk nonetheless. We all know at least one. The guy who gets his job through a well meaning friend or family member. Just doesn't have the cognitive skills required of the position. Problem is, he's now your problem. You have to pick up his slack, cuz he can't hack. You try to teach, but nothing sinks in. He doesn't have the basic building blocks in his head to move forward. (By the way, that's all fed gov't education guidelines fault, ie sight reading, and whatever that new core math is) . No comprehension, no vocabulary, no writing skills, HELL, these people can't even make change at the drive thru. But you're supposed to work along side them?You're supposed to trust this person with your life and well being? And don't take me as an anti-feminist. I have no problem working along side a woman. If she does what I do, I expect she should command equal pay. Most women have stronger analytical abilities than us. BUT If I have to stop what I'm doing on a regular basis, to help, instruct, explain, or otherwise do their work, I feel that she works at a reduced rate. Same as a man! The only exception I can think of , is if she's a spot on troubleshooter and saves everyone lost labor and wasted parts. Rant over, I'll get off the soapbox and yield to the next speaker.
The threads are the easy part, I was referring to the four inches of bolt to drill before you get to the threads. Truck Shop
Part of the problem is not just loss of talent. With the complexity of modern equipment with all the specialization a field mechanic has to learn and understand how it all works. Also it seems that manufacture have to change things constantly so just finding the correct replacement part is a real time killer. Hell just last week I was on the phone with the dealer parts guy for what I would call a ignition module after two hours he said "Do you mean ignition UNIT? You don't need that they never go bad." So I asked what the part number is so I don't have to go through this again and he said " I can't give you that just come to the counter and give them your name and it will be there waiting for you." Sure enough when I get there nobody knows anything about it so more time wasted at the counter. In the end I had two hours in diagnosing and repair and over four hours in getting the part. How the hell am I going to bill for that? By the way the part was less than $100.
Face it-they way things are now, are not about to change in the near or distant future. Every industry micro manages every aspect of every job, even small business's do that. With the skilled labor market and ambition levels shrinking everyone just as well accept that the boss will always be asking you to put 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag. Do more with less. Truck Shop