Good evening Guys, I hope you are all doing well tonight! I have a few questions about the project tractors I just bought. I just got the 265 home today and I still have to return to pickup the 235 when the weather gets better. We are supposed to have about a 3 day snow and ice event starting tomorrow so it will probably be a couple of weeks before I can get it home to start playing with. After the snow and ice event we are supposed to have high temps in the 30s and 40s for a few days. Now I know you Guys who live in really could areas think that is a heat wave, but it is not to me. I'm here the NC Triangle area (close to Raleigh) and if it get below 75 I start shivering . Well I am almost that bad! The 265 runs good but they say the 3 point lift does not work. Now I have a lot of shade tree mechanic experience. Building motors, body and paint etc, etc. But very little tractor experience other than building tractor motor as well. I know the 235 needs a ring job at the least and I'm sure I will find several other small things it needs when I have time to start on it. For the 235 my first question is: Is the oil pan a part of the frame like on some of the real old ** tractors I have worked years ago? I could look I at it and come up with this answer pretty quick if it was here but I haven't picked it up yet. I know the rear lift on 265 does not work. For the 265 my first question is: How do I determine if the hydraulic pump is the issue or if the 2 stage clutch is the problem? If you Guys that have a lot of experience with these tractors could help me with some guidance on these tractors it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!! Bobcat Crazy
No frame rails on any ** that I've seen, the 235 will be a stressed block, reinforced oil pan just like the old ones, and the 265. I'm not familiar with the hydraulic pump drive on a 265, but I'll guess it's simple enough that the problem is unlikely to be the pump itself. Most likely to be something with the controls not set right, and the seller not aware of how it works. Also, plugged intake screens, air leaks if there's suction tube, that sort of stuff, is more likely than a hydraulic pump failure. Is the pump supposed to shut off if you use the PTO clutch, is that what you're saying?
Hi Delmer, Thanks for your reply. In reply to your question highlighted above, if I understand correctly, my answer would, no, that is not what I am asking. With the 2 stage clutch I know if I press it all the way down it is supposed to stop the lift and the PTO shaft. It is my understanding that the lift does not work at all. So I need to determine if the pump is the problem, which is one repair process. Rebuilding the pump, which I don't mind doing myself. But if the 2 stage clutch is worn out it will not drive the pump, which is certainly a different repair process. That means splitting the tractor housing to replace the clutch. That is a job I really do not want to tackle. My brother had a ** 165 which is the predecessor to the 265 (I think). When his lift got to the place it would not work he had to have the 2 stage clutch replaced. I have just bought these tractors and it has rained and or snowed ever since I got the 265 home so I have not had time to even get it off of the truck. So while I am waiting for the weather to become more favorable to shade tree mechanic work I thought I would reach out to you Guys to see if you could lead me in the right direction when I get the chance to dive in on these things. Hopefully this explains a little better what I am asking and/or searching for. Thanks All! B-C
This is not shade tree mechanic weather but at least the rain has stopped and the dry, fine snow is beginning to look pretty! It is suppose to snow all night so I hope that snow cream bowl sitting on the wife's car gets full. YUM YUM!!
So the clutch does shut off the lift, easy enough to check that, turn the PTO on, then engage the lift, if the PTO stops, then the clutch is shot. If the PTO keeps spinning, but it doesn't lift, some other problem. Still wouldn't start with rebuilding the hydraulic pump, that would be the last suspect after everything else is checked.
Thanks Delmer! That gives me some direction on where to start when the snow melts. B-C
Good evening Guys! I got out in the snow today and managed to get the 265 off of the truck and do just a little checking on the lift. What I learned is that the PTO shaft does not turn when I put the PTO gearshift in any position. I can actually move the PTO gearshift through all 3 positions with the tractor engine running and the clutch fully released without any grinding or any noise of any kind. I can feel the 3 positions the gearshift rests in so I know the gearshift is still connected but that is all. I think this (no PTO and no lift whatsoever) tells me the second stage in the clutch is totally gone. Is that what it sounds like to you Guys or does that sound like something else that you experienced Guys have seen before? Thanks! B-C
That's a possibility. If the clutch is gone, then there will be fluff and chunks in the bottom of the bellhousing. I don't have anywhere near enough experience to say what is likely, you could try searching farmingforum.uk, or maybe there's a ** forum in the US? I'm a little suspicious that the PTO doesn't move, even with a bad clutch, there would usually be enough friction that if it was in gear, it would move from the shaft running inside another spinning shaft and the plate still making some contact with the flywheel and pressure plate. I'd try turning the PTO by hand, in gear, engine off. Is there any PTO clutch adjustment?
265 should be independent PTO. If you’re sitting on the seat by your right inner thigh there’s a small rectangular plate with 2 bolts. Has a weird raised area and a pipe plug. Throw a gauge in that pipe plug hole and that will tell you if you have hydraulic pressure. If you can find an I&T manual it will tell you how to check that stuff and set the draft control on the 3 point. If it’s an adjustment thing you can play with draft lever and lift lever to get something out of it. It won’t be right but it’ll tell you what the pump is doing.
May have stripped the splines on the shaft or twisted it in two if he was running something on the pto
The plate on left side where your pto shifter is located can be removed, you can now see the pump there will be a screen type filter in pump pickup unscrew wing bolt from top.might need to drain a little oil to get below opening, start tractor and see if main shaft is turning pump if so coupling issue with pto. Sounds like a clutch problem to me, pick up a manual tractor supply, dealership or online. Splitting and clutch is not a bad job but tougher to do outside or at least needs to be on level surface.hope this helps been a few years since I have done one.
Thanks Guys for all of the input. After playing with it a little more I feel sure it is the two stage clutch. I can put the PTO gearshift in the center neutral position and turn pto shaft without any resistance at all. I put it in the up position and I can easily turn the shaft with my hand but I can feel a slight resistance. I put the gearshift in the down position and I cannot turn the shaft and when I drive the tractor with the shifter in the down position the pto shaft turns. So I think this tells me the shaft is still in tact, and when in the down position and driving tractor the shaft turns tells me the gears are good. So I am pretty sure this means a tractor split is in he near future. PS. Have you ever thought about being a fisher of men? B-Crazy!
I answered that call many years ago and my Lord has bless me and open many doors in my life. That pto has ground, neutral and engine speed, ground turns in relation to your travel.Really good for raking and kicking hay, I have a newer John Deere that only has engine speed a little fast IMO. I think that fly wheel has a step so if you get it surfaced make sure you take the same of off both if pto clutch is not bad may be out of adjustment.
I am glad you answered the call we need all of the help we can get!!!! Thanks for the info, you Guys are so knowledgeable!
Hi Guys I hope you are all doing well! I had a chance to get back to my tractor toys Friday after work. I had been trying to decide if was going to take the ** 265 to someone's shop and have them replace the clutch pack. The cost was quoted to be about $1500. I would look at it every evening after work to see how big and how dangerous it would. I had real concerns about the engine half tilting and maybe even fall over if it tilted to one side. I watched the Canadian Redneck on You Tube do one of these working on a concrete slab outside. He made it look pretty easy but I was still concerned about the potential for injury when separating it. Friday afternoon on the way home from work the notion struck me to jump on it and see what was inside. (I am a notion person no matter how many projects I have waiting I just can't get started until the notion strikes no matter how much the wife complains !) But once it strikes I am going to do that job no matter what it take or who complains . Well the notion struck and about 2 hours later I had the clutch assembly laying in the shop. I thought that was not bad for an old shade tree guy on the first time I had ever seen a tractor separated in person. I have attached a few pics below. I hope you enjoy the update. Oh, I all most forgot, a couple of days before that the notion struck to pull the hydraulic steering valve off of the ** 235 that I bought in the same deal with the 265. I have also never done one of these and I may never get it working again but I have it fully disassembled and waiting which are supposed to arrive tomorrow so I will see if I can get all of those parts back in the right place. But HEY it wasn't any good the way it was so what do I have to lose? Just my time and the cost of the kit. I could not steer it at all, had to drive it the best I could with the brakes to get it on and off the truck. No steering and the fluid was running out just under the steering wheel and running down the dash. So if I can't get it back together correctly I will send it out for repair. But I don't give up easy so if I were a betting person I would wager that I will get completed (however I am not saying how many times I might have to take it apart!) The 235 also needs rings and wiring. It runs good but has blowback and has old oil all over it. Well I should say it did have before I cranked up the HOT WATER POWER WASHER!! Man I can set that on 200 degrees and it will clean up an oily mess. I know that well because it seems that those are the only kind of machines I buy. Dummy I guess I am! Hey but they are cheap and it gives me something interesting to do when I get home from work. If i don't keep something interesting to work on I fall in the recliner when I get home from work and hold it down until bed time and that is not good for the old body. It is lazy enough already! I can remember when I was younger I work all day and half the night, get a couple hours of sleep and do it all again over and over. Haha now I have to work to stay out of this chair. It is like it has a strong magnet and sucks me right in if I get close to it. Do any of you Guys have a chair with a magnet in it like mine? They did not tell me it had that feature when I bought it! Anywho maybe we can discuss the chair features at a later date. I hope you enjoy the update and the pics. On another note remember to give Him praise He is worthy of it all!! B-Crazy
Happy Super bowl Sunday Guys! But I don't waste my time watching it any more. When those spoiled, rich, privileged sports stars started kneeling when Old Glory was brought out I stopped watching. When I thing of all our people that have died on foreign soil so that unthankful people like them can misuse this great freedom I can hardly bear it! I realize it is not all of them but I can't bear it when such an organization allows this type of actions without throwing out offenders! Remember Pete Rose? They throw him out for life for betting on the game (or something like that)! I was no Pete Rose fan but what he did was much much lower on the scale than kneeling for the symbol of America and yet they are allowed to continue their disrespect of freedom as they please. I wonder how they would feel if it was their brother, sister, mom or dad's bones still laying over there somewhere and still listed as MIA. Oh I'm sorry, I signed on to update you guys on my tractor projects. When I mentioned sb Sunday at the beginning of this post those thoughts overtook me and I had to share it! Okay lets see if I can get back to what I came here for. I got both the 235 and the 265 washed down with the hot water power power washer, wow that thing can strip away the years of grease and grime! As you can see from the pics above I split the 265 and got the old dead clutch out. The new clutch pack came in on Friday so I put it back together yesterday. I'll show a few pics at the bottom of this post. While I was waiting for the 265 parts to arrive I decided to play with the 235 a little. As I stated earlier it could not be steered so I pulled the steering valve off disassembled it and rebuilt it. There are a lot of parts in that valve and this was my first one so I learned a few things on it but I haven't had time to even crank it and see how it does. I know that turning the steering wheel without the engine running it is a lot tighter than it was. If it works good I think I have a couple more of them to do as the steering is a little iffy on my other 2 as well. I already had a ** 265 that my parents left me when they passed. Dad had owned the 245 since I was a teenager back in the seventies. Man that was a longgggggg time ago!!!!! Back to the 265, everything went back together good with very little trouble. This job was not half as bad as I was thinking it would be! I do have another issue with the lift, now it comes up and will not go down. I have read enough to know that this could be as simple as a stuck lever just inside the inspection plate where the lift speed control is. Or it could be more involved than that. Whichever it is I will eventually get it figured out but I am certainly hoping for the simple. See pics below! I will give another update in few days as I get the chance to do some more work on them. If you have the sure fix for the lift that now will not down PLEASE CHIME IN! Have an Awesome evening. Give Him praise for He is worthy! B-Crazy
A couple more pics of 265 clutch and maybe 235 steering valve.
Hey 955, You were correct on both counts. It was the clutch and it was not anywhere near as bad of a job as I thought it would be. It was relatively simple even for a first time job. I guess it is a little unfair for me to say it was a first time job as I have replaced clutch packs on cars and trucks, but it is still true that it was my first time splitting a tractor to do it. Thanks again! B-C
B-C , glad your job went well I didn’t think you would have much of a problem. Those lifts can be aggravating, do you have any weight on lift arms ? I agree 100% about SBS I have not watched a pro game since they started the kneel. I love my country and am very thankful for the many men and women that have given their life for my freedom.Two older brothers that fought in Vietnam and many other family members who served they have all my respect.
I don't have much weight on the lift, I put my 200 plus pounds on it but I have not had the chance to hook up anything to it yet. My daylight ran out before my to do list. Be sure to thank your 2 brothers and other family members for their service to our Country! There are many of us out here that still hold them in high esteem! I was a little too young Vietnam and we were very fortunate, all of my family who served came home in one piece. However we lived on a short dirt road with only six families on it and in small town America back in those days you knew all of your neighbors. The family at the other end of our little road lost their oldest (and I think) their most promising son in nam after being drafted. I remember as kid that it took them so long to get him home that they had him sealed under a thick sheet of glass in the coffin so he would not smell. It is a same that some of these kneeling snow flakes didn't get to experience something like that they would have a different attitude about the freedom that we are easily throwing away. When I travel to the county seat about 20 miles away I always go by the nam memorial to see his name. As a kid I didn't really realize the loss that family suffered until I got older and could better understand the loss of a sibling. And that is not to mention the loss the parents felt. Anyway enjoy the freedom guys like him gave his life to preserve for us. B-C
Hey Guys! I hope you are all doing well and having an awesome day! I need a little help on my 265, the clutch job went great and that part is good. The lift goes up as soon as I crank it, so that part is good! The problem is, it will not come down! I have a shop manual but it does not have a great lift troubleshooting section. Well compared to other manuals that I have used anyway. It seems from reading, the best I can tell maybe, the main control valve is stuck. I have looked at the illustrations and still can't tell where to start with this issue. Could some of you get me started in the right direction or a better link that you could hook me up with? Thanks for any help!! B-Crazy
Those won’t power down. Do you have anything attached to the 3 point? If not, lower your lever then stand on the 3 point draw bar.
And the lift shouldn’t go up when you crank it unless the lever is pulled up when doing so. It sounds like the internal levers are not in the right place.
youtube is much easier to understand than an old manual, if you can find the right video. Some of those old **'s had to raise the three point to use the hydraulic remote.
I know they do not have a power down feature. I have both the lift lever and the draft in the down position but still as soon as it starts it tops out.
The levers are moving things inside however I do not know if they are in the right place or not. Thanks for the input.
Yes I am still searching YouTube to find a video that addresses my problem. I certainly agree that YT video would help me greatly if I can just find the wright one. I do have an a hydraulic remote on mine, I can move the remote lever in one direction and that hose jumps showing that it is getting pressure. But moving the lever in the other direction has no affect on the other hose so I know that that valve is not working correctly either. If I can figure where to start I will get there eventually but starting on my first it is a little hard to figure out. Well back to You Tube. Thanks for the input Guys! B-C
A buddy off mine has an old Massey with some kind of shuttle valve. It is top center around the front of the seat. Have to move it back and forth to go from 3 point to loader function. There seems to be some kind of odd sequence to it. An old Ford of mine was parked for a couple years before we rebuilt the engine. Then the lift would not work. Had to pull the 3 point lift assembly. Clean all the spools and such.
Thanks TW, I will look for the shuttle valve but I don't think mine has one. However this 265 is new to me so it is possible. I will be playing with it again tomorrow afternoon and all day Saturday so hopefully I will be able to figure it out. I have searching You Tube all night and I still have not found a vid about the issue I am having. So I guess I will be learning scratch. I can do that, and have done it many times before but it sure saves time if I can start off headed in the right direction. Thanks Again Guys for the input tonight! I have to work all day tomorrow so I feel the sandman calling me. B-C
http://www.haapasalontila.fi/mfhydren.html Tell us if this makes sense, or how yours is different. Seems some of the parts are the same from a to35 through 265, 275 even 1080, so there's not much different, but there are options. A lot of the remote hydraulics in those days were one way only, and that seems like what your remote is set up for, so that it would lower without pressurizing the other hose if there is only one hose.
Hey BC, google hydraulic pump for 265 it might show a break down of pump I think the control valve is made in it.some of those you could take the plate off of right side reach in and move control valve manually by hand or look and see if your lift quadrant is moving your control valve.
Hello Guys, I hope you are all doing well! I haven't been on in a few days so I thought I would say hi and give a little update. I got the 265 lift trouble out the hard way. I could not find any of the levers, linkage, or anything else in the wrong place through the side opening. I did everything I could figure out to do the the side at the response speed adjustment and it was still the same. Finally I removed the top cover pulled it off and checked everything I find to check by reading the Massey manual and watching Youtube vids. I still could not find anything wrong after working and studying on it for a couple of days I reassembled it making sure everything was positioned in the correct place and now it works like a charm. Either a lever was in the wrong place that I could not find through the hole and I managed to get it back in the correct place when reassembling or there was a stuck valve that I managed to loosen with all of the vibration from disassembly and reassembly. I don't like not knowing what the cause was but hey it works and that was is the main thing. The hydro steering valve I rebuilt on the 235 worked great so that is a few major hurdles out of the way. Where I stand now. On the 265 I am waiting on the correct color Massey Ferguson Silver Mist Gray paint to paint to paint all of the chassis/torso whatever it would be called. I have the Massey Ferguson Red paint for all of the Sheetmetal, and I have just painted the black dash panels for both the 235 and the 265. 235 I have the engine disassembled, it was blowing oil out of every crack, hole, and crevice on it. Some of the rings on the #3 piston were broken along with a part of the piston for about an inch that separates two different rings. Most of the broken rind parts were still in the piston grooves but not all of them and the part of the piston that was broken was totally missing. Now how all of the broken parts can get out of that cylinder and only leave one tiny scratch in the sleeve is beyond me but that was the outcome. I had to hone the # 3 cylinder more than the other 2 but now it is ready to reassemble as soon as the arrive which the internet says will be Friday. If they arrive on time I can reassemble the engine on Saturday and these two machines will begin to look like actual tractors again. The will both have all new paint, wiring and gauges when I finish so they should look great. I am have trouble finding quality gauges for them though. It seems everything I can find online on eBay or Amazon is cheap junk from India. I have already bought 2 sets and I would not use either of those unless I was building a toy tractor! Does anyone know where to purchase good quality gauges without going the Massey Ferguson dealer? I will post some more pics after this post just to show what I'm playing with. Thanks! B-Crazy B- Crazy
More pics of the 235.
Just 2 more pics! This thing was so nasty, I think it had ever been power washer but as you will see once I get them painted it has had enough power washing to make up for lost time!