long story short... demoed a 289Cat with Cat HM315 mulcher. worked great!!! Bought used FAE UML SSL 150 (same as HM315 just older) It was setup for a 299Cat and had 1" hoses and quick connects.. replaced 1" quick connects with standard 3/4" but left 1" hoses. I also did nothing to the electrical connector for trap door. ... My question, Will a mulcher that's setup for a Cat 299 work to capacity on a 289? Something is wrong. I am bogging down in very light material. The 289 with HM315 that I demoed seemed to turn much faster with more torque. Any thoughts? thanks!
The UML is set up for a high flow machine, spec is 34-53 GPM. The HM315 is roughly the same, 31.5-36 Both CAT models 289 or 299 can be 22 GPM standard or 33GPM high flow. The high flow version is just barely enough to do the job for a UML 150 I should think. The FAE DML 150 is smaller and will run on 13-25 GPM So, I'm guessing the machine you have is standard flow? The high flow version it seems is also about 700 psi higher, for more torque.
With hydrailics flow is speed, pressure is power. So if it is bogging down may be you it needs more pressure or change the pulley sizees These things don't need to run at 2000rpm to do a good job. For the last 7 years I have run a Fecon head at 1600rpm and it chews through timber a heck of a lot faster and leaves a product just as good if not better than the original setup. Don't let the socalled experts(sales people) tell you any different. Changing the quick connect 1"to 3/4 will alter the flow even if the hoses are bigger you have lost 25% of the flow. Quick connects should match the hose size.
The 289 I'm using is high flow. If I change the hoses to match quick connects will I increase pressure?
Was set up for a 299 D2 XHP which is 40gpm and 100+ hp. What do I need to do to make it run properly on 289?
Call FAE tomorrow +1 770 407 2014. My guess would be hoses to match your coupler and possibly change the sprocket to a different size probably have to adjust a cartridge for the pressure difference. That's what we had do to a Fecon head when we upgraded from a smaller machine to a larger machine and I would imagine your FAE is similar. Another thing to just verify would be is the machine going into high flow mode? I'm assuming your 289 is a d series? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes it's 289D. Certainly it should be powerful enough to run the head. .. new teeth. .
No, change out the small quick connects back to the original 1". That's two restrictions there. Plus the "standard" disconnect probably is more restrictive design than the 1" that's more appropriate for the high flow. Better yet, take the disconnects out altogether at least for testing to see how it runs, before thinking about changing anything else. OR did the mulcher come with the 3/4 couplers?
What sized hoses do you have?
Mulcher came with 1" hoses and big 1" qc's that won't work with 289d
I don't have anything comparable. Does a 289D have 3/4 hoses and quick couplers? That would suggest that it's just not up to the job, then Tones suggestion to change the speed might be the next step. Going from a 1" to 3/4" quick coupler is more than 25% more restrictive. The pressure drop on each fitting adds up, and I'd GUESS that a quick coupler equals the total pressure drop of half a dozen 90's. That is, enough to make the difference you're describing. I just realized you're talking about two different mulchers on three different machines, so it might have been "geared" up for higher speed for the 299?
FAE uses different motor sizes to match carrier pumps on some attachments. Could be the current motor has too much displacement for your 289. 1" q/c on the 289 would help.
Unit is a 2006 but the pump says 2013 with Gregory Poole cat tag on it.... I thought I asked all the right questions before purchasing. .. apparently not! I didn't know there were 2 versions of the 299. Xps xph...what a mess!
No , the hose size determans the flow. You can have the same pressure in a 1/2" hose or a 2' hose but you can't have the same flow in a 1/2' hose that you can in a 2' hose. Thats why any restruction like quick connects reduces flow but the pressure on either side of it is the same. Hope this helps.
A bigger motor gives a heap more torque which is what you want. I changed my Fecon head from a 63cc motor to 2x 63cc motors giving a total of 126cc.
Truely Mate it's not that bad, somethings just take a little figuring out. It's not like you have to rebuild a new machine to get it to work. Now that tests you but end up with a whole lot of knowlodge which sometimes you can pass on
Going to chat with FAE in morning. I'm actually only 90 miles from FAE USA in Atlanta. Hopefully I don't have to change the motor out. Not sure why it was replaced in the first place.... May be sized for the 299 XHP. Hopefully I can keep current motor and change other cheaper items...
I belive that a Cat 289D high flow is a max of 23 GPM. As stated before the CAT 299D XHP is 40 GPM. I have a FAE 125 size on an ASV RC100. At 36 GPM it is all the attachment it wants. How many QD's do you have on your CAT. You will notice 5 on mine. Top= case drain, next 2 = high flow, next 2 = low flow.
How where you able to have 2 motors? Seems like the hose sized would limit flow and get very hot. ..
High flow and case drain for the mulch head motor, low flow for the door cylinder in the center. High flow is 1" QD.
289D high flow is 32 GPM @ 4,061 psi. Standard flow is 23 GPM @ 3,336 psi, according to CAT
Hi flow 289 has one flow and one return for high and standard flow circuits
I'm curious, since I have no direct experience with this machine, how do you select high flow versus standard, and is there an indicator that comes on to tell you it's enabled?
No indicator just electronic plug
Does it make a noticeable difference? It's roughly a 50% increase.
You should have and indicator lighting up showing the machine is in high flow mode it's number 5 in the attached picture if you don't see that your machine isn't in high flow mode. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
O.K. I give...what is number 14 ? Sunsetting over a large wave at the beach?
Definitely no indicator... only indicator that comes on is continuous flow. Maybe I'm not engaging high flow. I don't see an obvious switch. Just thought the electrical jumper or plug from attachments made machine go high flow...
Pee break.... #2 should be obvious now as well....
14 I believe Is vibratory roller
Fecon/AHWI BH75 heads have mounting holes and the shaft so you can mount 2 motors. I use it on a deicated carrier not a CTL. What I was getting at is that a larger motor produces more touque which then lessons the rotor bogging which is what you were complaining of in your OP. One other thing that causes the rotor to bog is the operator pushing the machine to hard and not allowing the mulcher to process the material in it's own time.
Definitely a low flow problem or a flow restriction problem... even bogs at a snails pace in very light saplings. The same high flow 289D with the CAT HM315 mulcher I rented performed much much better than the FAE head I just bought. Just to refresh, thr FAE was run on a 299 D2 XHP which is 110 HP and 40 GPM. Also had 1" QC
I think that's a safety deal so you don't get high flow to an attachment that can't handle it. You probably can't get high flow without the jumper, but I'm guessing you have to enable it manually somehow. Operator's manual? I found this link: http://heavy-equipment-world.blogspot.com/2014/01/259d-279d-289d-299d-and-299d-xhp_7423.html Talks about engaging constant flow and then using the RH stick thumbwheel to set the flow, push it all the way up or down and hold it for three seconds, then it locks and you can let it go?
Ok if that indicator is not coming then it not in high flow mode and that explains why your performance sucks. Going off memory I believe it's pin k and n that has to be jumped to activate high flow. It's also possible the wiring harness is damaged somewhere I've had to replace a few because of a broken wire. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
New motor and wiring harness in 2013. But maybe specific to 299..
Have you tried it without the QC's? just couple the hoses directly to the pipe and see what difference it make's.
Turn your flow knob to the right. Look at the symbol #5, above it is a symbol fro a flow knob. Right for more flow, left for less, kind of like an AC fan.
Does anyone know if auxiliary supply lines are thr same on the 299 XHP and 289D? If they are, then doing away with quick connects may be an option...
The new 299D XHP has 5 lines. One for case drain, two for high flow, two for low flow. Have you read your operators manual?
f311fr1, your last 4 post have been incorrect or not pertaining to the subject. thanks for trying though....the 299 D XHP has 2 larger quick connects and a case drain. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...3001d1335751605-new-cat-299d-xhp-dscn1213-jpg again, when I bought mulcher sight unseen, I was told it was setup for a 299D not a 299 D2 XHP. Big difference. The 299D is very similar to a 289D so I went ahead with the purchase . Now I am scrambling to find out what I can do to make it run properly on 289D. Whether it be electrical plug wiring, quick connect/hose sizing, pulley sizing, or motor alltogether....
here is layout of hi flow enable connectors circled in red for hi flow sorry added wrong photo for D series couplers
Maybe there is actually something wrong the the pump and/or the motor, A flow test or case drain test would be the direction to go IMHO.
The majority of the newer Cat tractors are not dual stage like the picture but single stage. If i had dual stage tractor then that would be easy. Here is a web page explaining difference... http://blog.quickattach.com/2015/07/
the second picture is of the oversized couplers that my 289D with single stage high flow hydraulics does not have. My mulcher came with 1" lines and oversized couplers. I wish I could change out the fittings on my 289D to the larger size or like someone said earlier, do away with them and plumb direct to see if that helps with flow...
Do your connections look exactly like this? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
not at all... https://www.gregorypoole.com/used-equipment/equipment/machinery/2014-caterpillar-289d-2/
Did you try jumping pin k and n on the machines electrical hook up? That will tell the machine to turn in high flow and it will show on your display when you role the thumb switch forward? If you do try to jump it be careful not to touch anything else or you'll blow out a fuse. Or you can get a high flow plug from cat if you don't want to try jumping it with a wire. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tried the high flow plug thats tethered to the connector and also plug on mulcher but neither made light come on when thumb was activated...
Then you have some type of electrical problem either on the work tool or the machine. I keep a spare harness for my machine and work tool on my truck because they do go bad from the wires rubbing together or the wire breaking. You can get your electric meter and test for a broken wire. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
will hook up and check again. tractor only has 70 hrs...thanks
Probably wouldn't hurt to check the fuse as well maybe it got blown. If you look in your manual it will tell you which one it is. Anyhow let us know what you find. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is that the exact machine you bought? Looks to me that you do not have a high flow machine. Cat is proud of their editions. Usually machines have all the stickers on the side. That machine says two speed as in two speed travel period. No more, No less.
Not my machine but same setup with high flow
Have you tried to have Cat help you? Or whoever you bought it from? It only has 70 hours isn't it under warranty? Do you have a manual for this machine?
Have you posted the serial number of your machine yet in this thread? With that info it should be easy to tell you what you have.
Don't have serial handy but machine was bought as high flow and says hi flow. Ran rental mulcher great!
The serial number gives us all of the technical break down. There are serial number breaks where machines have different build specs. If you post yours, it gives us a much clearer idea of what to look for.
Can you get your money back? Obviously the attachment you bough was misrepresented and does you no good, in others words you didn't get what you thought you were getting. I would think it would be easier and cheaper to buy a properly setup mulcher rather than buying a new motor, hoses, couplers and whatever else it will tale to make it work as it should.
I agree to a point, but the first thing you have to do is verify the machine is producing proper flow and pressure, if it's not then putting a different attachment on it isn't going to solve the problem. Could be nothing more than a wiring issue or hydraulic malfunction, it happens.
The other question that I didn't see asked, do you know the mulcher was working propey when you bought it? Did you see it working? I would think that even witha shortage on flow the mulcher wouldn't bog down in little stuff.
It's a new machine so take it with the mulcher to your dealer and them to have a look at it and tell if there is an issue and if they can resolve it for you....done deal...
From the link to the dealer used website in post #46 on Page 4 by the OP the S/N is TAW00710 if that is indeed the machine he bought.
R If the O.P. really wants the forum's help, he should post the serial number as has been requested. No need to waste members time playing detective.
Ok, going right back to the first post, my understanding is that you demoed a cat mulcher on the CTL ( Cat289) and it worked ok. Then you purchased a used mulcher, older but the equalivent to the hired mulcher and it won't work. Before you end up looking like a goose check out the mulcher. Check the casedrain flow to find out it the motor has worn internals( scratched lens plate, worn rotating group are things most common). Check motor manufractures spec's. Most info is online.It should have a control box with counterbalance valve, pressure relief valve, loop flushing valve and a break valve all of which have a heap of O rings that bake hard and can leak causing oil to bipass.To test this pressure test the carrier then at the outlet of the control box. The reading from the control box should be 10% lower than the carrier,any more than that is where the problem is. Hope this helps
motor is new, I've been away with no internet access. Intend to get mulcher to Cat and check on one of their machines. May not help though, since none of their machines have the larger quick connects with separate piping...
The 289D is only 75 hp. So depending on the conditions that you used the CAT mulcher in, there might not be anything wrong with either the FAE mulcher or the machine. Certainly checking the hyd motor spec on the FAE and comparing the spec against the carrier will help. A 75 hp machine running high flow is not going to give great performance mulching, marginal at best. Typically the biggest issue in the couplers is the generation of heat. Big hoses with large couplers reduces restriction which means better performance and reduced heat generation. The number 14 is Ride Control.
Maybe it's just me but somethings weird about this thread. He doesn't post the serial number or pictures of the machine. And seems evasive when asked .
Ha ha! I have nothing to hide... I will get the serial when I return home after holiday weekend. Meanwhile, will see if I can upload picture of machine. Not sure importance of serial though. According to CAT service manager, all 2016 Hi Flow 289D machines are the exact same on the hydraulic side.. Unless he is mistaken
Can you also post pic's of the plumbing inside the mulcher?
With the Serial Number the factory build data can be accessed to see exactly what it is you have. In the case of machines like this that have a myriad of options there is always a chance that something could be different to what you think (or have been informed) that it is.
hope this works. Here is tag on mulcher motor
here is 289 with the cat hm315 mulcher
this is only picture of FAE unit. Notice how hoses were rerouted. Won't fit through original hokes in center of machine
The holes in the center of the machine had bulkhead type fittings in them. You will want to cover up those holes and louvers as the head will fill up with debris pretty fast. I built boxes for over the louvers with perforated metal on the sides for heat escape.
See attached pictures of factory hose placement. The new units have solid plates on top and the hoses are on the machine hook up side.
Just had a chance to snap some pics of plumbing.
Does the pressure gauge on the mulcher work? If so what pressure is it showing when the mulcher nearly stalls?
OK it looks like you have a diverter valve that is electrically operated to work the door (second row right habd picture). When I first got mine the valve block that is bolted to the motor had an internal crack and I had to replace it. When you hook it up what does the pressure gauge on the mulcher read? If the Cat is putting out flow but you do not have pressure at the mulcher pressure gauge try to find a hot spot. That will tell you if you have an internal bypass in one of the valve blocks.
Or buggered O rings in the valve cartridges. It would be best to pressure test the Cat as it will give you a benchmark to work from. If you haven't got a seperate test gauge then jerry rig the one on the mulcher to the input hose before it goes into the control block and block the end
Are these tests and procedures my local Cat dealership ought to be able to help with?
You can do them yourself easy enough. Take the input hose off the block, take the pressure gauge off the block the couple the two. Start the Cat, engage the hiflow and rev the engine to max RPM's. That should then give you the benchmark. Recouple the hose and pressure gauge to there original places. Then place a block of wood under the rotor so it remains stalled, engage the hiflow and rev to max RPM's. The second reading should be 10% lower than the Cat. If the pressure is any lower then the problem is in the hydraulics in the mulcher NOT the Cat. Seeing as the hyd motor has been serviced the control box may not have been and that is the first place I'd look. Adjust the pressure relief valve and see what difference that makes. Your FAE operator manual should explain how to do this. If there's no change it may only a O ring problem a cost maybe $20 to do yourself. I assume the Hydraulic motor service has some sort of warranty so if it's any more that what I have explained then it should go back to the last fixer and you are armed with some facts.
Thanks so much! Trying to find a manual... taking it to CAT dealership first thing in morning sonce they are willing. Maybe they'll find a quick smoking gun
Finally !thank goodness....blown o rings and used up pumps on the mulcher is my guess.....
OK Pair of Hounds, fess up. What is the verdict?
Nothing yet, hope to know tomorrow. ..
Any update on what the problem is/was? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Did they show you how to run your mulcher pair of hounds ? Com on man !
Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe we can learn something.
Just got back to computer.. Mulcher checks out fine. 289 has hydraulic problems. High flow circuit will not activate. thats all I know.
Thanks for the update
Nudge!
Okay, I just found out today that my 289d has major hydraulic failure. Even after a new pump and throw flush at dealership they are still metal fragments getting into the hydraulic filter. I now have a loaner 289d that runs the Mulcher very well although the 289 is a bit undersized for the FAE 150 head.
In a nutshell, the mulcher is fine. 289 wasn't actually pushing high flow to it..
299D2 XHP would be the proper machine for the 150 head
Well, at least you know... sorry to hear about the mechanical failure though, sounds like it might get a lot more expensive
If still under warranty this is not a big deal, if not, this is about to put a very serious dent into your wallet. We have been running 299XHP with mulching heads for the last few years and also hung a few mulchers off of 289D and the 259D with no machine failures at all like you describe here. Something had to be seriously wrong or very neglected on this tractor. Can I ask how many hours of your 289 D ? Also for what it is worth the 289D is too little HP and flow for the 190 mulcher IMHO. Yes, it will operate it but not nearly how it should or can....wishing you the best on this matter..
Machine has 74 hrs... 2015 model
I just bought a 2017 cat 299d xhp and a afe eco mulcher the mulcher will never go back on any job we do . but my machine is throwing tracks andonly has 33.7 hours on it i pump grease and in four hrs or less they are ready to pop off again any help would be app.
What are your issues with the AFE mulcher?
Check the track frame allinment. There have been problems in the past, take it back to your dealer.
I think its a great mulcher .... : ( , the problem i have is it throws mulch"not a fine product,but large stringy pieces" 500-600 ft. sometimes.I think maybe its just too "BEASTY" for where i intend to do most of my work. I think this mulcher is quite a-bit more dangerous as far as slinging the ever-living-hell out of debris. Somtimes tooOOO large of tree pieces that should have definitely been mulched....
I have not run an AFE disk mulcher but have demo'd the Diamond and own a diamond brush mower. You need to keep the flywheel spinning, the faster it is spinning, the less likely it is to sling pieces large enough to cover any distance. You also learn what direction is the danger zone and it's normally easy enough to work around hazards when you are able to direct the debris in a safe direction. But yea, it's not a tool to use around houses or people, but it's really productive.
I know this is an old thread but need little help. Putting a FAE mulcher UML 150 on a Cat 299 skid. This mulcher is off of an Bobcat. The hoses match up but i need the wire harness for it to hook to the Cat 299. Anyone know what i am talking about ?? Thanks guys
Talk to Skid Steer Genius. You’ll find them on the web. They have custom harnesses for pretty much every application.