:drinkup thought it would share what i caught in action
more pics
What is the cable attached to the boom for?
Im gonna guess that the cable is to assist in hoist speed. The water probably makes alot of drag when hoisting a full bucket from 35'+.
I was wondering too, maybe some kind of a safety line? I think I seen that on the History channel a while ago.
Being the material it's lifting wights almost 3x's as much as normal dry material, its to assit the boom in the lift
wow thats a machine any vid on it
I seen that on the discovery or history channel.
I wonder if that cable has something to do with distributing the load on the barge that the excavator is mounted on?Seems like it would counterbalance all that weight on one end of the barge.It would be interesting to find out.Ron G
That's what I was thinking. Look at the rigging at the back of that boom in the first picture. I don't think that 996 needs any help lifting a little mud.
Well.. don't know if you've seen the film on the tube and I don't know if an old 996 is that slow but when it comes out of the water and hasn't got the lift from the water anymore it goes like lees sh*t. (read very slow)
What makes you guys so sure that it is to assist in the lift because of lack of power? do you know something that everyone else dosen't....or maybe you have ran the machine or one like it? not being a smartass, but they are your pictures so I just wondered if you knew the logistics of the rig or was just driving by and clicked a couple of great pics (thanks by the way ) and the lift assist is just an assumption I am totally with ron and Specialtool, I believe its for ballast,.....Water is not the most stable underfoot you know lol Pj
on another note, can you imagine the sway in the op station 15-18' ontop of that platform......I am not one for getting motion sick but I bet 10hrs a day in that thing would wear on a guy emotionally. Oh, and one more supporting thing on the ballast theory for the cable, look at how much the platform sway's around depending on where the boom is........I believe its for ballast Pj
Naaah - n ot for lift. That is the smallest bucket they could POSSIBLY put on that machine - no way it can't lift it. Look at the bucket width compared to stick width. I am sure it is to even the load on the barge - digging in the wet sand causes huge suction which that machine has the power to capsize that barge....I mean look at the list even when he is JUST SLEWING!
Great photos again of the dredge. I've heard several sources that said that the cable is indeed for assitance in lifting the boom... as far as the barge the 996 sits on, I am pretty sure tehy have spuds (I think that's what they are called) to help hold it in position.
Double post... sorry about that, Steve feel free to delete this one
Dredge NY Ive been retired, for about 10 years, before that I worked with GLakes (union work) I worked mostly running the survey boats and I was the first survey boat to work with the NY. Great dredge, did you know about the first 6 months, a hydraulic line burst and caught the cab and hydraulic room afire, not pretty. I havent contacted anyone since I retired, but is Capt Phil still the Capt on this dredge? He was a good Capt. to work for. Good pictures and good to see stuff from the past. Someone posted RonJons dredge a while back.
not to pick a fight but just because something is slow dosen't mean it isn't powerful. gotta remeber that boom,stick and bucket weigh alot more than a machine most of us have operated. also moving a heack of a lot of material. Chaps my butt that people dog the 385 for being slow. its not a 330 thats for sure.~Z
Well for my 2 cents. My guess would be for extra lift ,not speed as such. But that has got to be a special extra long boom to get good reach for dredging and would certainly test any hydraulics. If it was for counterbalance why not just put a suitable weight down the other end and there would be no need for the cable and why a lot of weight up high so I'm going for lift assist. :cool2Compare the length of these two booms and bucket size:drinkup
I have been told it IS for the lift NOT to balence it. Here is a video, the last clip that looks slow is its normal speed YouTube - Liebherr P 996 - Editied clips
definitely has a longer boom than normal.
What's the name of the guy that told you that?
I know I am :deadhorse here but I believe Special Ron and I were meaning more of a counter ballast for the whole float to balance the rig and actually put weight on the rear of the float is what i am thinking. not necesarally the excavator itself. but I dunno? Pj
Well it doesn't work like that. Adding dead weight just reduces buoyancy - it makes the barge sink a little, in other words. The cable in this application, on the other hand, deflects the load without compromising buoyancy.
here are 2 more machines WITHOUT the "lifting cable" so that leads me to believe it is more of a barge issue......maybe the channel was to narrow or shallow? for a larger barge? Pj
Nice pics there
First name is John, can't say the last name.........
What material are they lifting....?
Isn't it obvious that the cable is "loose" when he is booming down and then "tight" when he is lifting the material when there is weight on it.
I am thinking that you are right for that reason. I would think it would be in tension both ways if it were moving a counterweight.
I tryed to explain it the simplest way possible
You explained it just fine.
Hey if that cable was for extra lift dont you guys think it would be maybe at least a two part line and maybe a tad bit thicker? I saw a show on the discovery channel (or maybe the history channel?) a few months back featuring what i think is this machine. I beleive the operator said that the machine was so powerful that if the bucket were to catch something solid and he laid into the sticks that the machine would tear itself apart.
It isn't doing all the lifting, it is only an assist due to the weight of the loooong boom and stick. Remember, that "small" bucket is probably about 25 yards or so, and wet river muck is as heavy as anything you will ever dig. Slack cable on the down shows that it is not counterbalanced to anything, or else it would be tight all the time. Cat 328d lcr Thank for the pictures and video of this. It is not something you get to see very often, at least for most of us.
Yeah - but that is a TINY bucket for that machine! Look how small it is compared to the stick! Its a joke. And...its doesn't need to counterbalance on the return because its not to offset the weight - its to offset the HUGE downward force of overcoming the suction. If you caught that bucket on something steadfast, THAT machine would immediately capsize that barge. You guys think it can't even lift that tiny bucket...harharhar.:Banghead
You obviously don't know the size of this machine. I'm pretty sure that's the 25 yard bucket, and if it's not, hes easily packing 25 yards in it. Now if it is 25 yards, then he's packing even more. He is not lifting a light weight material such as sand or dry dirt. Its wet clay Do you not know it wieghts more then dry light materials? That is carrying a long stick and look at the boom, its not only somewhat long but its thick. Since you seem to know so much about this machine, calculate the weight of the boom and stick with all the cylinders and the linkage, plus the bucket, with the material in the bucket.
Dredge NY I worked with that dredge, since it was built, of and on. I really dont remember that cable, that is hooked to the boom. Ive been retired about 10 years ago, so Ive lost touch with this equipment. This dredge was built, just to dig rock, in the Kill Van Kills, NY harbor. It was one of the strongest machines, for dredging, when it was built. The bucket is sized for digging rock, not mud. As for the machine turning the barge over, no way. If my memory serves me correctly, the barge is 200+ft long and its supported on three spuds. There is very little barge flotation, when the unit is digging, its load is on the spuds. If I remember Great Lakes website, with all the info its www.gldd.com lots of info about the company and equipment This unit digs by computer screen only, it has a picture of the bucket like a video game and you dig by the video screen, It is guided by a high tech GPS system, so the bucket, digs by this info. Of course, the operator, is doing all the control movements, to match the info on the screen. When it digs out a section, the center spud is what they call a walking spud and it moves the unit to the next set, usually about 30ft or so. I worked with Great Lakes about 15 years and everyday was something new and sometimes exciting. Hope some of this info helps
Some more....
not sure but this might be the specs on this machine. very impressive machine. http://www.gldd.com/FleetItem.aspx?type=3&id=17 thansk KoO Published Author
first, this is proof that operators love to argue. second, that cable is about 1 1/2" or better. third, it is there to lift. that setup would not affect stability, the fulcrum is still under the hoe.
Dredge NY You know, someone could email Great Lakes and ask them what it is, Hummm what a thought
Email sent
While it might look "flimsy", in actuality that cable is pretty thick. I have seen specs for a similar Komatsu base machine setup on a barge, an know for a fact that the cable is there to assist in the lift portion of the work cycle. That's it. Tony
Dredge NY Cat328d, why dont you call Great Lakes Dredge & Dock Co in Staten Is, I think Richmond Terrance and ask them about the cable. I see you are from Staten Island also. Ask to speak to someone in the maintenance dept, or just swing by there and ask
I agree with Qball its for lift/speed. It doesn't look like it would help much with digging/break force judging by the 2nd pic in post #2.
Alright - all you geniuses who think it is for lift assistance - that's going to require a powerplant at the base of that boom - where is the powerplant?? Don't make me drive down there and take my own pics....I am close.
Theres one of the hoist drum's, its in the left corner. There's also about 75-100 more feet of the bardge/ponton left that its one
Good luck finding it, it's not in the same spot all the time and not everyday you can see it this close to shore
You trying to tell me that that little yellow canary is lifting a 996 boom??? C'mon, dude - its getting silly now.
Being that someone has emailed them, if they get no responce, I will try to get down there
I said that is one of the hoist drums, never said what it was for. The one ASISTING the boom lift WITH the cylinders is the grey box sitting on the boom of the crane
Here's a close up
328, John's last name begins w/ a T.If it is the same guy,we worked together prior to him going to Weeks.In talking w/ John,the cable is used for lift support.He's been doing that for a while now.
The guy I knew just knew ALOT about the machine. I meet him at a model show. He's into dredgers and aqua diggers so I figured I would ask him- he would be the guy to know...
Nice pictures :usa
For fear of getting yelled at I will add my 2 bobs worth.If you look at the companys web site with the pics of the machine it does not have the cable on it.Well I reckon that they rig it on depending on where they are digging ,what they are digging and to what depth they are digging.It appears that this machine is digging to the maximum depth and every one knows that the main lift rams have to work their hardest when they are pushing from a fully retracted position .So I think that to save flogging the rams in this fast cycle loading from a max depth that the winch is set up (on this job)to help the machine to do the initial lift from the bottom so as just to make the machines life a little easy.When the rams reach a certain extension usually past the horizontal point then they can look after them selves .It is a mechanisim that they have set up to help the machine from working harder than it needs to . on a different note.I actually have pics of a big Kato getting lifted out of Sydney Harbour not long ago after he dug deep with his big bucket on, stuck it out a bit before he cleared the water and then because the bucket was so full of wet dirt and concrete we over balanced and went swimming.You just dont know what you are picking out of the mud do you?
Where they took that pic is all rock. I know that because, they have to blast the rock under the water.
I'll have THE reason for the cable tomorrow after work, i work with a guy that worked for GREAT LAKES .......
This was added by Great Lakes in order to increase our payload/productivity. Sincerely, Richard T. Smith Mechanical Project Engineer Plant and Equipment Department Great Lakes Dredge & Dock Company, LLC 2122 York Road Oak Brook, IL 60523 (630) 574-2928
Well - that can be interpreted 2 ways, unfortunately. He definitely DID NOT say breakout/lift - he said "payload", which leads me to believe that its equalibrium. The term "payload" usually refers to dead weight (as in a rocket), not active force. There is a chance that he refers to breakout, but its a small one.
Any which way anyone says it, your still going to think it's not to assist the lift. Even though numerous people said it was.
pay·load (pld) n. 1. The revenue-producing part of a cargo. 2. a. The total weight of passengers and cargo that an aircraft carries or can carry. b. The total weight of the instruments, crew, and life-support systems that a spacecraft carries or can carry. c. The passengers, crew, instruments, or equipment carried by an aircraft, spacecraft, or rocket. 3. The explosive charge carried in the warhead of a missile. I think he is refering 100% to weight and the cable assists production...cycle times
Your definitions enforce my position. Weight does not equal force. Thanks for posting that, kiddo.
duplicate post
http://www.pitandquarry.com/pitandq...f-Terms/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/521391 Breakout force: Maximum vertical upward force created by the curling action of a bucket attached to an excavator, loader or backhoe, measured 4 in. behind the tip of the bucket cutting edge. Of course it wouldnt affect breakout force, breakout is all in the bucket linkage and cylinder, not lift. The winch would strictly assist in lifting the load to the surface.
Just the bucket linkage and cylinder, huh? What about the stick hydraulics? When you are digging ben46a, how much stick/bucket piston do you use? You use Cat or Deere controls? Long throw with right hand or short with left? Let us hear your preferences.
ointhead
The way its breakout force is measured is the bucket curl force 4" behind the leading edge of the bucket, it has nothing to do with how me you or anyone runs a machine, thats just the industry standard of how it is measured. I run cat or john deere controls, but i prefer cat. 90% my digging is in shot rock so if you go full bore on either stick boom or bucket too much your going to break stuff. And yes i use the boom and crowd when digging, just stating how breakout is measured and how the cable wouldnt affect it.
Arguing with special tool about this is like wrestling a pig in the mud. You are not going to win, and the pig enjoys it. As for everyone else, I think the cable is settled. It helps aid in getting more material moved, so it makes more $$$.
Well, you got that right. And I agree with you that it helps get more material moved.
Plant corn : Get corn
YouTube - MONSTER DREDGE
I can now post a thread
Some new pics from this week. Would love to see a P9800! Does anyone know the location of Don Jon's Liebherr P995? I know its out there somewhere
That is one heck of a machine!
going through a few teeth a day huh?
hey 325ccr, boy am I glad you posted these photos because I was working in bayonne motby running that brand new 365c loading all that sand and upon occasion I used to see this enormous hoe out in the hudson. So one sunday me my wife and my daughter tried to get a closer look but only got so close and until now I didnt know what kind of hoe it was. thanks, I believe it is around jersey city now isnt it?:usa