New guy here, and I can't find any info on what kind of fluids the transmission and the chain box's use, or the capacities? I've got a 50's era Allis Chalmers Model D Deluxe I think! I want to go through and replace all the fluids before I get her busy!
Whatever you put in the chain case is usually the same as what's in the rear end. Most stuff I've been around uses 80/90 gear oil. You would be able to tell by the smell. Not sure about the tranny.
80/90 is the lube for the transmission also, the lube has to climb up the gears to the main shaft so a little Lucas (yeah here we go, flame away) to help it climb up is a help. The transmission only oils the shafts when the grader is moving so be careful not to idle excessively.
Thanks! I use Lucas often, and haven't had any issues caused by them! Will synthetic oils do any good in this old stuff?
No, if you want to spend the $$ for synthetic oil go ahead, it isn't really a necessity though. I have made a few post responses about Galion 503's and the information is the same for your D. There is a lot of parts interchangeably between these two machines. A few years ago, I repowered a D by using a 503 transmission, it is pretty much the same except for the engine bolt pattern. That machine got a 4.236T Perkins diesel in it a ~ 100hp. or so, it was a stout little brute. With a 14GPM hyd pump you could fine grade at idle speed or a little above with ease. Who needs a power shift transmission when you have that much torque rise?!
Thank you, I'll use a basic brand then and change it often to catch any shavings and hope there are none!
Do you have any of the specs on the hydraulic system, like system pressure? Or even what pump you used? I need to liven up the hydraulic system on my D
No sir, I haven't found any kind of "manual" on line! Can't find much information either! I finally drained the transmission gear box and discovered there was a LOT of water in it! It had to come in from where the shift handle meets the case! There was no rubber boot over it to prevent the water from coming in! I'm letting the old oil drain over night, then I'll refill and run it an hour or so then change it again... probably do this a few times! In hopes of cleaning things out! Then I'll find a CV boot or something to put over the shifter! Might try a flushing of the system? Maybe install a pressure gauge?
The system pressure is in the 1500 psi range or so. You may go higher but there isn't a real need to because the front end will come off the ground with blade down pressure. You can up the GPM some, but the belt drive will be a limiting factor. I'm not as familiar with the D valve body but I think you can do 12 GPM ok. The D I spoke of with the Perkins had the hyd. pump from the trim mill I took the engine from, whatever Cat called a Raygo Barcomill after they bought them out. I'm sure some of the Cat gurus will know. When I did one of these, I direct drove it off the crank like a old mixer truck. A Galion dealer (Komatsu) will be your hookup for most driveline parts. Equipment Salvage in Cambridge Ohio can get most anything for a Galion like the shift boot or other parts new or used.
Turbotexas, I posted this over at the AC forum, but will post, again, here for the benefit of Silveroddo, too: Found my operators manual, today. Says 50 weight for the tranny, rear, and gearboxes. 90 weight EP, in the steering worm, and 10 weight, in the Hydraulic system. Also says if operating in cold weather, hyd can be thinned with kerosene... Also, I remember, manual says 2-1/2 gal of hydraulic oil. I will check to see if it has the specs, for Silveroddo, too, but sometimes I forget to look, gots other things on my mind, too...:drinkup
Yeah, don't run 50 wt if you're in south Texas. Replace everything that says 50 wt with 90 wt GL1, not GL5. It has additives that don't get along with bearing material. I have the last of the Allis M65 motor grader and that's what I run.
Thanks guys! I am in south texas, so I doubt I'll ever need the kerosene! I had to replace the rubber shift boot cover with a CV boot! The transmission was mostly water! I'm flushing with 80/90 weight from tractor supply! After a few flushes, and the oil comes out cleaner, I'll get the good stuff, mix a gallon of Lucas in it! I did find a good amount of metal shavings and pieces! Well a bad amount, enough to scare me! I don't see any way to post video or pictures here?
It took three gallons to fill the tranny box
I'm not getting email notifications on the AC forum?
These transmissions put out a lot of metal trash due to the sliding gear (grind it in) engagement. I put in a magnet in the bottom of the transaxle just for that reason. A magnet in each tandem chain case is a good addition also. If you do increase the GPM of your hyd. pump, you'll want to up the oil tank a bit. Those little tanks are way too small as is.
The hydraulic system is week, I can't run two controllers at once?
Does the AC transmission not have an oil submerged cluster gear which turns whenever the input shaft turns like regular transmissions?
OK guys, here is the rest of the info from the specs page: Fuel tank 18 gal coolant 3 gallons engine oil 1-3/4 gallons Air cleaner 1-1/2 pints Transmission and rear 4 gallons Tandem gear cases 3 gallons each steering gear 1 pint Hyd system 2-1/2 gallons Engine serial number location right side engine block behind and to rear(slightly) of carb, stamped into block Hydraulic pressure (relief pressure) cracks at 900 PSI opens at 1000PSI pump puts out 12-1500 PSI, no gpm figure given, but I would hazard a guess at 10 gpm, or so... As this was from an operators manual, and not a service manual, there's just not much more, other than the relief valve adjustment procedure. Good luck, these are fun little graders to operate...:drinkup
No Check, the upper shaft doesn't run in a oil bath. When you are in gear and moving, the gear train carries the oil up and it flows and splashes into the bearings. These transmissions are tall and skinny, a odd shape at first glance, but necessary given its purpose. A oil pump would have been a good idea, but the engineer didn't deem it worth their while. Given today's stance on idling, it fits right in. A block I ran into was the 101 chain in the tandem case, all I ever got was a blank stare when I tried to buy master links or new chain, where do you guys get it?
Great info! Very much appreciated! I put three gallons in the transmission the first time, sobthere must have been quite a bit of sludge left in it after the first dump! Guys check that you still have a shift boot cover at the top! I had several gallons of water comebout of my tranny! I replaced mine with a CV boot cover from a parts store!
Does it show where this relief pressure valve is? I'd like to go through it and clean it and insure it's working properly!
For photos y'all will have to go here... Until I can figure out how to post here! http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/...&PN=1&title=new-to-me-model-d-identify-please
She looks like a dandy
Your D looks like it's in nice clean shape, do you do dirt work with it or road maintenance with it?
I believe it on the valve bank, somewhere, I'll check the manual, again...
I just bought this two weeks ago! Once I get everything up to par, I'm hoping to be able to pick up some extra work doing road work! Just build a small ranch roads and driveways etc.
Thanks! I'm guessing this is it!
I can tell you from experience that those hydraulic hoses in the pic above will blow very soon; usually when it's about 100 degrees outside and then you get a YUGE oil bath LOL.
Well the reason i asked was that with some new sharp bar lug tires on it that lil darling will move some dirt if you get it off road, if you are only maintaining gravel roads, I'd prolly save my $$ and get some new hoses like d9gdon mentioned.
Yes, they're next in line to be replaced! my neighbor has some new military tires in a 900x20" size! They're a little taller than the 8.25x20's that are on here? These are the old school keep tires from WWII era! I'm debating on those, but wonder if it will take away some of its low end grunt?
He's got six of these, and is willing to do some horse trading! He's not new property, and I told him if he'll buy all materials I'd grade out a road for him!
TT, that's what I have on mine, BUT: 9.00 X 20's, that are new will squeeze to a taller profile, on the OEM rims. Either get a set of these, used, worn to about 1/3 tread, or find some wider centerless IH Rims, off'n an old farm truck or bus. Not real sure how wide you can go, but I do know that I got as set of the 1/3 tires from Gensco, And they had about 2 nickels worth of clearance, where the tires meed, on the tandem drive...
Yea I found a website that showed they'd be about three inches bigger in diameter! Which would be real tight... so I might just spend a day going around different tire shops looking for a new or used 8.25x20... then I can always true it down to match the other three!
If you are going to spend some $$ on tires, get a price on some bar lugs, Specialty Tires of America makes them from the old Goodyear(I think) molds. These tires will bite well enough that you will wish for more umph in the motor department. It will also make it easier to steer in a tight circle as the front end won't plow nearly as badly.
I was hoping to trade off these tires for the work on his drive? Thus no outbof pocket expense? But if the 900x20 is too tall, then I will either ask him to get something else or just find the one I need to make a can you show me some photos?
TT, seriously, see what Gensco has, they had great prices (I thought), when I put 'em on, about 10 years ago. Gensco is the tire company that advertises in farm magazines, for used multi-ply aircraft tires... If I can find a link, I'll post it, later... On edit, googled gensco, still doing business, but their site don't show used military tires, any more, you might want to email them, though... Here's a link to M. E. Miller's site, they DO have 7.50X20 military, but the rears will set you back $ome... http://www.millertire.com/categories/truck-tires/?sort=featured&page=3
OK, Finally got back to the manual re hydraulic relief setting. First, you are looking in the wrong spot, for the RV. It is on the rear left side of the valve bank, sticks out horizontally. Next, check the pump drive to make sure belts are tight, not slipping. install a tee fitting, and a 2500 psi hyd gauge into the pressure line, from the pump to the VB. Next, start the machine, get it up to operating temperature. Drop the blade to the ground, then apply downward force on one of the blade cylinders, the gauge should read 900 lbs. If not, loosen the jam nut, on the RV, and the acorn cap, that covers up the screw head. To increase pressure, tighten the screw, to decrease pressure, loosen the screw. If you screw the screw in, and pressure doesn't increase much, or any, your pump is weak or the belts are slipping. Manual don't say a thing about what RPM the test should be done at, so I'd say, try middle throttle setting. If it won't put out 900 PSI at high throttle, then your pump is prolly bad... Good luck.
This is great information!has anyone ever scanned this manual? I'm kinda clueless without photos! Again thanks for this!
http://www.millertire.com/products/...ck-tires/8-25-20/8-25-20-power-king-traction/ I like these, but $250.00!
This must be what you're referring to! There's one on each bank!
That should be the one. It may be a newer VB, than the one pictured in the manual I have. My guess, would be to back off the outer jam nut, while holding a screwdriver, in the slot, then take the cap off of the valve. if you see a spring, under the cap. and not just threads and another jam nut, just put the cap back on, and do the adjustment as I wrote above. If there is no spring and just threads and another jam nut, underneath the cap, then use the nut underneath the cap, as the jam nut. The nut that is on the one in your last picture may just function, to lock the cover on, sometimes things are changed, on a 60+ year old machine...
Would this be a vent? I'm trying to figure out how to "change the lines"? As in do I need to just swap them out and top off the hydraulic fluid? Or is the a way to "bleed the system" like when doing brakes?
This is a 503A that me and my dad rebuilt and repowered and heavily modified from a core some years back. I know you only asked for pics of a tire, but, well here you go!
That's a damn good looking machine! I'm amazed at how much the rear looks like mine. Where'd you find them tires? Those would be the bomb!
The tail end of the machine is pretty much interchangeable with a D. The transmission internals are the same except for the input shaft, Galion used a hollow shaft so they could drive the hyd pump. I used a 503G model transmission to make a engine swap in a D, it will bolt right in. The Perkins I used was a little more difficult to bolt to the transmission. The tires came from TCI in Columbus, but any decent tire dealer can get them. They are Specialty Tires of America brand.
I've got a good friend of going to tire shop, didn't get them for me at cost… I'll try them other ones that are going to be free for Brooke for now but these are definitely on the wish list
I used a CV joint boot as well on my D grader. Your weak hydraulics could be caused by belt slippage. With the belt super tight i could often stall the pump. The sheave groves were worn on the crankshaft pulley. I had an adaptor made to fit the pulley and moved the pump to direct drive off the crankshaft.
I have a 1949 allis chamers model d grader and can't find the transmission fill plug. Is there any way you could take a pic of plug so I can find it. having same problem as you finding info. Also the level check plug is located on the tandem chain cases just above and a little to the right of the drain plug. I really appreciate your time helping me out.
The fill plug and level check plug are one in the same! It would be on the back side of the pumpkin!
If there is any water with the old gear oil, you will need to buy a CV cover from an auto parts store to cover the gear selector! That's where I found water to be getting into the case!
The only ones I could find are the two in the picture. They are located above the clutch and under the starter that's below the seat at the top end of the transmission. Kinda hard to get to. Could the top one be a fill plug and the bottom one be the level check? I hope the pic comes through okay. What year is your grader? Thanks for your response and help, Bob
Mine is a 56 model I think? But if you're behind the machine look at what's known as the "pumpkin" or where the gear box is... that's where mine was at! I can't get pictures now because the machine is at a tire shop...
It'll be just like the rear end of a pickup truck
Look for a pipe plug on the ring gear cover on the back of the transaxle, the oil level really isn't that high. The machine moving in gear carries the oil to the top of the transaxle. The tandem drive check plug is about 4-5" above the bottom of the case. The oil between the two is separate.
Looks like TurboTexas snuck in before me !
Is this it? So the rear pumpkin and the transmission both share the same gear oil? I let a little drain out of the transmission drain plug to see if any water came out and none did but the oil was a little creamy with a white'ish color not sure about that. Also What is the drain and fill plugs for from the first pic I posted.
On another subject the grader had a wix 51101 oil filter that has a little plastic tube down the center. i got what was supposed the be a direct replacement that had no little tube and installed it and got no oil pressure. I put the old one back on and oil pressure was back to normal. Does anyone know of a replacement oil filter for a Model D with the 201cu engine with that little stem in the middle.
That's the fill plug! Not sure about other photo and what those were
The pivots on the tandem drive trunnion caps are dry! Please grease them before they start breaking off the 1/2" bolts in the chain case.
I thought I found all the zerk fittings and greased them. I found one zerk fitting on the top of the tandem drive trunnion cap on the right side but not on the left side yet. It's not in the same location as the other side. Need to clean some more dirt and dried grease off it. Thank you very much for spotting that out and calling it to my attention.
Re the oil filter, Are you talking about engine oil filter? If so, there should be a hollow steel spike, with a little hole, at the top, that sticks up, from the oil filter base. If the spike is missing, you need the spike part to get adequate oil, into the filter. It can be fabbed out of rigid copper tubing, crimped and soldered at the top, with a 1/8" hole drilled about 1/2" below the top as long as it is a tight fit, into the filter housing base, and doesn't hit the top of the filter, when you tighten it down. The little plastic thingy in the original filter might have been a field expedient repair, some shade tree mechanic did, in the past, or the stick that used to come with these filters,is now plastic, as packing. You have to remember these filters, the correct ones, are stuffed with cotton rag media, the stick is used to keep the cotton from settling, and filling the hole, for the spike to go in. There have been problems with the wix and napa filters, (not enough media, or paper media), these will result in a no oil pressure reading. AC-Delco and others make the right filter, it is an oddball, with mayonaise jar threads, on the bottom (external threads). I think the correct AC-Delco # is like PF459, but don't rely on my memory! Look up any A/C gas farm tractor, in the following list, to find the right filter #: A/C- B,C,CA, D-10, D-12, D-14, D15(series 1), Early D-17, WD, WD-45( the last 3 tractors at least, the gas versions) motors will bolt right up to the D-grader. Also, I think a D-15(series2) you can rob the oil filter housing off of, to convert to a newer style filter(fram PH8A?). You might have to drill and tap the mounting holes bigger, to do this, again fault my memory...
In reading your past report you mention that the hydraulics are slow. The piping from the supply piping for the mouldboard lift and lower valves has a small orifice in the pipes to slow the flow possibly to make it easier to make fine adjustments when grading. Also some of the steel fittings used for the hydraulics are only regular steel pipe fittings that are not designed for very high pressure hydraulics. Yes, it is important to find all the grease zerks and lubricate everything. As for the drive chains, they are available at any chain supplier. I changed out the chains on one chain box on my grader as they got stretched and would jump a tooth now and then. The problem was caused by someone leaving a lost socket in the chain box. Some suppliers on allischalmers.com have reproduction manuals for these graders.
Thanks for the reply and info. Do you happen to know if that steel spike was threaded in place or crimped to the oil filter housing. There is a oil filter housing on ebay with the spike for a WD tractor. Would that whole housing fit on my model D or could the spike be removed and put in my existing housing.
Yes, should be a bolt on thing. You will need a cork gasket(1/8" or slightly thinner) to go behind the housing, and don't over-tprque the bolts, its a pot metal housing that will bend and crack easily, or crush the cork gasket and make it leak. The spike, itself is just a tight fit into the hole in the housing...