Hi everyone, new here and having trouble on this dozer I inherited from my Grandpa years ago. It worked find when I got it but the injection pump finally gave out, so I put a new injection pump on a while back but never could get the timing correct. I have a few issues, one is the user manual that came with the dozer contradicts the general service manual I have. The general service manual says to set the timing mark on flywheel to TDC, but to refer to your "user" manual for engine specific timing specs. Now the user/operator manual that my Grandpa had for this says "Case 350 Crawler Operators Manual 9-2057" It says to set the timing to 8 deg before TDC. So I am confused what is correct. I think this 350 Crawler is for a different tractor, and I searched here as well as Google for a service manual or user manual for a D310F Case, but no luck. Serial number is 3020421 and there was also 4082110 on another tag I found. The other issue I had when trying to set the timing is a way to look into the small sight window on the bell housing to see the marks. The main 1" thick steel frame is in the way blocking a straight on view into the hole. There is no service windows anywhere that would allow one to peer into the hole to see the marks. The manual shows a technician setting the timing with the engine out of the tractor, which isn't any help to me. The manual just says to simply crank over the flywheel with a screwdriver till marks align. Hopefully there is someone on this forum that has worked on this model or someone who has the correct user or service manual for my dozer. Thanks in advance for any help
Might get a small mirror like a denist uses to see the timing marks to get that part done.Don't know the answer about the pump,but can it be turned when mounted to advance or retared the timeing.Good luck
FIRST THING we have to figure out is what injection pump you have..Stanadyne[roosa master] a Delphi[cav] or Bosch [inline]. and what are the #'s on the pump tag .. that way we know what engine we're working with.. The rest is EASY..
Oh, I wasn't aware these came with different motors. I thought it was gas or diesel. Mine is diesel and the injection pump bolts to the left side of the engine (if your sitting in the seat) held on by 3 nuts and the pump has elongated holes to allow rotation for timing. It has a little light window that you line up marks for timing. I believe its the roosa master, but will check for sure. I understand the process, just need to know if I line up flywheel to TDC or 8deg before TDC or maybe something else? I tried using a flashlight and a mirror to look in the hole, but it is located in such a way that even if you get it lined up perfectly to the hole, its dark inside and the flywheel is dirty so there is almost no way to make out any marks. If I were able to directly peer into sight hole, I might stand a chance. I could at least rotate flywheel till i saw something and maybe took a rag on a stick and tried to clean off the area. There has to be another way I keep telling myself. I can't see a Case mechanic yanking the entire engine just to time the IP.
Any ideas? Going to try working on it this weekend, so any help would be awesome! How about a user manual, or someone with knowledge of this dozer that can tell me what is the correct timing for the injection pump. 0deg @TDC? I can't find any where online to download the timing info. Hopefully someone has one that they can verify the timing for me.
So I just verified it has a stanadyne on it. Looks like the engine is a case 188. I looked threw the stuff I got with the tractor and found the user manual for it, but there was no timing info like on the case 250 user manual that also came with tractor. Can anyone shed some light on the timing specs of this engine?
Anyone have an idea? I am at a stand still till I find the correct timing specs.
I don't have any specs for that particular model, but it will be one or the other of the 2 different specs you have. My guess, & I mean guess, is that it is 8deg BTDC. You should be able to get this done by using some power of deduction. May I suggest you fit the pump - with the pump fitted about mid-way between the adjustment slots - look at the timing marks alignment in the pump side window at TDC & then 8 deg BTDC. Where the marks are the closest - that is where it should be timed. As for the visibility of the timing marks - it has to be done with mirrors. Use a mirror & a good torch to put some light down in the hole TIP - try marking the flywheel with chalk or spray paint.
I bought a lighted mirror today to get a better look. Everything is so dirty on the flywheel that you can see anything. The "pointer" isnt really pointed, it looks like a long blunt metal dowel that protrudes from the bell housing in the middle of the sight hole. So if I do by some chance find the deg marks, what exactly do you mean by marking with chalk or paint? I can barely get a mirror or a screw driver in there, I dont know about a spray can. What is the idea here? To just mark the 8deg BTDC? In my manual it says to use a screwdriver to rotate the flywheel. What is this referring too? I thought maybe I was to stick a screwdriver in the hole and pull up or down to rotate, like how you would adjust drum brakes on a truck. But the flywheel edge that is visible is totally smooth. There is nothing for a screwdriver to grab onto in order to turn over engine to proper timing marks. Maybe I am misunderstanding this? Also what is the best way to determine if you are on the correct TDC? I think the manual said to physically remove valve cover and check rocker arms? Is this necessary? Or is there an easier way?
I usually turn the engine by hand, grabbing the fan & depressing the fanbelt to help it grip the crankshaft. Turning with a screwdriver takes a lifetime...... The crank turns twice to each rotation of the camshaft & injector pump, so it is possible to time the pump 180deg out, so it is always good to remove the tappet cover to see what is going on & be certain you are timed correctly. #4 valves should be rocking + this will help you locate the marks at the flywheel. What you are looking for is a couple of heavily scribed/indented lines on the little flat area of the flywheel, beside the ring gear. By getting it close to TDC you can mark that area with some chalk or paint & that should make the lines stand out a little more to see. I cant recall 100%, one of the lines should have a '0' or 'T' the other would be the 8deg. Somethings in life are easy, some aren't - Welcome to the world of Machinery!
Your engine is a G188D and case calls them "crawlers" I thought FOR SURE someone would have chimed in by now with the correct timing *'s.. Is there any plates UNDER the flywheel hsg you can remove to get a better look? I think Alrman is correct..8*BTDC but that's not going to be much help if you cant see the marks.. OH, JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING!! remove the side plate from the injection pump..rotate the engine over until the 2 lines line-up..THEN look at your timing lines on the flywheel..This method is "backwards" from what your trying to accomplish BUT if the engine starts and runs, you know your on the right stroke and cylinder, you just need to "tweek" the timing.. ACTUALLY, you never said what your problem is....just that you couldn't get the timing "right" after the injection pump install...does that mean it wouldn't run ??? you have lots of white smoke ??? DO you know about the dot on the end of the drive shaft that HAS TO line up with the dot inside the pump when you put it back on??? IF NOT, your pump is trying to fire on the wrong cylinder and it wont start w/out "some help" and will smoke you out of the garage..
Well I will also chime in, Has the machine ran since you installed the pump? when you removed the pump did you scribe the pump housing and front cover? did you install your rebuilt pump or exchange your pump? did you slide your pump off the shaft or did you remove it from the pump drive gear and leave the shaft in it. Did you line up the dot on the shaft and inside pump tube drive. A little more info would help, alrman and thepumpguysc are on the track, valve cover needs to come off and engine turned to tdc with the valves on the rock, them look in the pump window for your marks. With 8 degrees you should see both marks close, if it has not run at all mite slip the pump of and check the dots on the pump shaft and drive. Also if you rotate the engine to tdc you can sometimes remove the #1 injector and install a rod to watch and measure piston travel, measure the size of the crankshaft pulley, take a paper plate and make a degree wheel, draw your circle, draw twenty equal pieces of pie, mark your 0 tdc on your plate them 15 degree lines before and after. Take a marker at the crankshaft pulley and place a mark where you can get to it on the outside edge, cut about 1/4 strip from your plate and match up your tdc and mark the 8 degrees point on the pulley, install a fixed pointer to the o tdc, Mag base for a dial indicator (what ever you can make up) rotate the engine counter clockwise to 15 before, then bring it back to 8 degrees. Check again the pump marks, while trying to see what is on the flywheel, don't forget what alrman said, to try and mark and find those lines on flywheel to be sure.
A Google search found this. http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=56141%3E ON THE CASE 350 CRAWLER THAT HAS THE 188 THE TIMING IS SET @ 8 DEG. BTDC. IF THE 580B LINES ARE TO LINE UP ON THE PUMP WHEN #1 CYL IS @TDC, WITH THE TIMING MARKS ON THE FLYWHEEL ( ONE LONG MARK IS 10 DEGRS.& THE SHORT ONES ARE 1 DREGS. THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD. HOWEVER FOR THE TIME BEING I HAVE MY 580B SET @5 DEG. BTDC AND IT APPEARS TO HAVE A TAD MORE PEP. YOU MUST HAVE #1 CYL A TDC, WHAT I DID WAS PULL #1 INJECTOR AND USE A DIAL INDC. TO CHECK THE MARKS ON THE FLYWHEEL. THEN ADVANCE THE MARKS ON THE FLYWHEEL THEN THE PUMP AND THAT WAS IT. AS I SAID IT FIRES UP QUICK AND HAS A BIT MORE SNOT. I ALSO GAVE THE PUMP A TAD MORE JUICE BUT WE WON'T GET INTO THAT NOW. WELL HOPE SOME OF THIS MAY HELP YOU, I'M STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT THE CORRECT TIMING FROM CASE BUT FOR NOW SHE RUNS FINE.
Well a few years back my dad an I bought a new IP and put it on, but I don't remember exactly what we did. We followed the manual, but don't remember much else. All I know is after we put it on, it wouldn't start. I probably need to remove it and check for the dot your are referring to. The reason why we replaced it was because fuel wasn't getting pumped to the injectors. We replaced the fuel filters but no change. So I think we concluded it was the IP. I do remember finding allot of rust chunks in the filter so I planned on temporally rigging a rust free clean tank either on the back of the seat or something and blowing out the fuel line to ensure the pump is getting fuel. I have read of some tanking the tank off and cleaning rust out and use a tank sealer to coat the inside. But that's allot of work. If I get it running and timed correct, I will most likely take the time to do this.
It was a while back and I had so much going on in life at that time that I don;t recall what we did. I do know we paid about a grand and exchanged our pump for another. And I am 99% sure we just slide pump off the shaft and slide the new one back on. But I don't know or remember if we lined up the dot on the shaft. I guess I need to take it off and start all over from scratch. Will I need to get new copper washers for the injection lines that mount to the body? Some say you can some say you can't.
I am in the middle of replacing the starter, as I found it would only work when hit by a hammer. I replaced the solenoid and it would turn over, but once you let off it wouldn't turn over again. I am going to take it off to have it rebuilt. But have no clue how to get to the bottom bold that holds the starter on. I can barely see it from the side, and it is obstructed by the frame so there is no chance to get a wrench in there. I thought maybe go from the back side of starter, but the oil filter is in the way. Am I missing something?
Not sure if this is relevant, but thought I would mention it. I had a 310G with a 188D motor in it and it ran out of fuel and I could not restart it. After refueling and bleeding and still no luck, I though it must be the injector pump and ended up having it rebuilt. When I refitted the pump the motor still would not start. It turned out that due to the Case having no lift pump it was paramount to have the fuel tank absolutely full to get the fuel to bleed correctly to the pump. I thought I had bled the system of air but it would only run after I filled the tank full and tried again. Good luck.
Ok thanks for the tip! Anyone know how to get to the lower bolt of the 3 that hold the starter on?
You could try removing the belly plate & going from underneath.
Ya I thought of that, but sense it does't run, the bucket is on the ground and there is no way to get under it. I was able to use a couple of extensions, and squeeze it under the oil filter and guide it with other hand to the bolt. But found when its backed all the way out, the back of the socket hits the body of the starter, so you can only back it off to a point and then undo the other two to allow the starter to separate from the tranny. With a little persuading I was able to get that last bolt out and had to pull the starter along with the socket/extensions. I have absolutely no clue how I am going to put that bolt back in. I though the service manual would be of some help, but all it says under the removal is, "remove the 3 bolts to free starter" thats allot of help! I already knew that. Any tips for installing that bolt? And for the guys helping with the timing, I just finally got around to pressure washing the engine (with hot water) so I can remove the valve cover in order to verify TDC. Which leads me to another question. I found a few people on other threads that said you can remove the #1 injector and with a rod placed down the bore, you can rotate till it goes up and stop where it peaks and starts to go down. Is this easier to do then remove valve cover? I'm thinking maybe it is, because once I take off valve cover, I have to buy gaskets to reseal the cover. Unless I can reuse the gasket? The engine has been overhauled many years ago and doesn't have much time on it. It more or less the sitting and drying out of the gasket that worries me to reuse it.
I would rather remove the valve cover before taking an injector out. I have reused those gaskets more than once and they didn't leak. You will be able to wiggle both of the rocker arms on #1 cylinder when you get the piston very close to TDC. A few degrees off either direction and one of them will no longer have any clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem. Injectors can sometimes take a very long time to remove without damaging them.
Thanks Tinkerer, Ya it was a piece of cake removing the valve(tappet) cover. I was just trying to avoid it because there was so much gunk built up around everything. But with a pressure washer and hot water it came right off. So I was able to find timing marks (finally) and set it to 8deg BTDC. Front cylinder's rockers were loose and I checked the timing on the lil' window on the rossa master and only one mark was visible. So I think I must not of got the dots aligned when I put pump on and its off 160deg. I plan on taking off the IP tomorrow and realign the dots and try to set timing. But I had one question..... I have been reading up on other threads about tips and such and I read that it is best to wire the throttle wide open before removing the IP? Is this correct? What is the purpose of this?
OOPPS..Forgot to mention that in our previous conversations.. Yes..by all means wire it back to WOT..It prevents the flyweights from falling out of the weight cage. IF 1 becomes dislodged and the engine is started all *ell will break loose! Don't worry tho, just wire it back and don't forget to UNTIE IT before restarting the engine..
Thanks, I figured it was correct, but was more curious then anything for the reason to do so. So I just got the pump off and looked at the dots and what do you know! It was off 180 as suspected. Now I just got to reassemble everything. Im having some trouble tightening the nut behind the IP. A boxed end wrench wont fit because it hits the IP body, I tried a stubby wrench, tried crows foot socket and but it on end of an extension. But that didn't work. How do you guys reach this? I took it off so long ago, I cant remember how I did it. When I took it off this morning, it was loose from years ago when I put it on. There is like no room to get a wrench in there enough to get any degree of travel to tighten it. And do I need to get new washers for the injection lines that attach to the body of the IP?
You can grind down a "box end wrench" or go to the store and get an "offset wrench"..I have a "1/2 moon wrench" that fits around the underside of the pump body..it looks like a "U".. You "can" reuse the washers..but they are a "crush fit"..if they leak after retrying them, don't try to over tighten..you'll just have to get new ones. Glad you found the problem..
I was able to get the hidden nut tight by using a 3/8 inch drive universal joint socket and an extension of a length that would fit in at an angle. I didn't know that crush washers were supposed to be used. Mike could you post a picture of your U shaped wrench ? The socket and extension is real pain to get lined up properly. Hopefully I won't need to remove that dam pump again.
I got it off the "strap-on" truck..I looked in their online catalogue but cant find it.. They do have one for the cummins pumps that's similar,but its a 13mm, just type in diesel in their search box. I ordered mine special w/ a 1/2" on one side and a 9/16" on the other side of the "u"..also an "off set" wrench can be your best friend..
Do they look like these ? There are quite a few offered for sale on Ebay.
YES..but like I said, I had mine special ordered for 1/2 & 9/16 [most common size nuts on the smaller pumps]
Guess what guys! Finally got that pump timed to 8deg BTDC, cleaned the fuel lines out, replaced fuel filters and cranked it over and after 4 or 5 rev she fired right up like nothing to it. I was so happy! The thing had been sitting for some time now and after spending some time installing the pump correctly, she runs like a champ again. Just sat there and purred. I am so glad there are forums like this and nice knowledgeable guys willing to help out newbies like me! I can't thank you guys enough! I tried out the hydraulics and one of the main lines that feeds the selector valve sprung a leak that shot 20 ft up. Made a huge mess. Dohhh!! Just about every line on this is cracked and most likely going to go. Does anyone have a sugg or know of a good place online to get theses lines? I can go to my local trucking co that will make them, but its pricey because its all special order stuff. I was thinking maybe there is a place that sells them at a bulk price if you buy them all or something. One more thing that I could use an opinion on is the gas tank situation. I was able to get it running off a small tank that I adapted and ran fuel line generically just to see if it ran. So the problem I have is its rusted, but doesn't leak. I was thinking about getting some of that tank coating stuff, but the tank is part of the seat and is fairly large as it houses the batteries as well so I don't know if that would work or even be possible to jostle around enough to properly clean out the rust and be able to apply the product to the inside. I took off the cap/bowl on the bottom that catches junk (held on by 4 9/16 bolts) and used a pressure washer to blow out everything until water was clear, but after I did that, I reached in the hole with my finger and can feel allot of caked up rust on the bottom. Now when looking down the fill hole, the sides are not rusty at all, but if you are familiar with this model, the back slants back and forms the bottom of the seat area. So its is impossible to see down to the bottom or get any kind of tool to scrape or vacuum out the tank. Oh and I did spray the tank down with diesel fuel after I pressure washed it so it wouldn't rust. I would really like to have the tank functional again so I don't have to rig a temp tiny fuel tank that could possibly leak or get in the way. But I also don't want to mess with plugged fuel lines and fuel filters. So any sugg or has anyone encountered this and found a good way to get rid of the rust? After some research, some say apple cider vinegar will eat rust, or plain vinegar, some say a type of acid (don't recall the type) one guy had used electrolysis and rebar which takes the rust and basically plates it to the rebar. Im sure there are many more ways, but I don't really want to experiment with it and waste allot of time. I think I am going to start a new thread about this because this one is on injection pumps and hopefully Ill get more feedback with the correct subject title.
I have a 450c case dozer I see timing marks but timing pen is missing I have tdc andi compression stroke how do I make sure it doesn't s in time I know this is not how this fourm works but i can never post a conversation if I don't get block can anyone tell me how to time a 450c Case dozer my email is [email protected] and if anyone can help me learn to post a question about. Let me ino
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