Tomorrow I am looking at a used Caterpillar D5G with 3600 hours. This will be my first dozer so I am very unfamiliar with the wearable parts, however I understand that the average life expectancy out of an undercarriage is around 4000 hours. I can see from the pictures that the track shoes are shot and the sprocket is nearing the end of its life. I started pricing out a new undercarriage and it looks like it's over $18k just in parts to replace the tracks, rollers, idlers, and sprockets which seems incredibly expensive. The tracks are $6000.00, the two front idlers are $4500.00, sprockets and bolts are $1600.00, rollers are ~$6,000.00. I'm sure there are more items that I am missing. Does literally every component of the undercarriage need to be replaced around 4000 hours? I expect to only put ~100hrs a year on the machine for the foreseeable future. Are there any decent aftermarket options? I appreciate the guidance.
Pins and bushs are well and truly shot. ITR are the best of the aftermarket IMO.
Only ones worse I’ve seen are the ones already broke in half that I’m welding back together to put on the lowboy. Pins are showing through the bushings. This unit needs the whole package. Where did you price your undercarriage? You could try to run the machine as is but you will break a track in the most inconvenient place possible not to mention beat the hell out of the rest of the machine because the bottom roller flanges are hitting the pin bosses.
Thank you for the blunt assessment. Now that I’m looking closer it’s very clear that the tracks are totally shot and I do see the bottom rollers hitting the pin bosses I went on the Caterpillar SIS site for the undercarriage pricing. If there is a better way, please let me know. The machine is $45k. I’ve generally seen them for sale in the $55k-$65k range so the undercarriage seems to have been factored in.
Idlers seem too expensive but it's likely you don't need to replace them. I think idlers are usually good for at least 2 sets of rails. Some people weld a zig zag pattern on the idlers where the rails ride on them to decrease wear. You need to use what's called Build Up rod or wire if using a wire feed process. It's a medium hardness and doesn't mushroom like mild steel rods like 7018 will. You don't really need to though. The tracks as well as being shot are way too tight, maybe so they stay on. Rest of the machine looks good.
4000 hours is not a mandatory requirement, but only a suggestion. Just like a car, a repair shop always recommends that you perform maintenance after a certain number of kilometers. Whether to replace it depends on the condition of the machine. From your pictures, the carrier and the sprocket are in good condition and can still work for a while, but the track shoes are too worn and have to be replaced. According to your current usage expectations (one or two hundred hours a year), it is not recommended to use a chassis system that is too expensive, which is not cost-effective.
Throwing money away to use worn sprockets on new track chains and the track chains are shot. Carrier rollers are probably OK to keep along with the idlers. Nobody ever said 4000 hours was mandatory. It's just a pretty common reference for life expectancy.
A couple of thoughts. You might get the Cat dealer to sharpen his pencil on pricing if you asked them for a package price for all the undercarriage, rather than pricing each component of the undercarriage system separately via SIS. As @Cliffy suggested, contact these guys - https://www.itramerica.com/products/undercarriage/
Hope the purchase price is correct for the condition of the tracks/ UC. If they ruined them so nicely (pins n bushings) how is the rest of the machine (make sure its not going to throw engine parts etc.)? Gee the one out fit I worked at we'd still get another year on those, and fight them all the way. Yeah half being funny and being serious at the same time. For top dollar pricing I'd be getting some oil analysis done before dumping the $. Those finals could have taken a beating slipping the sprocket etc.
You seem to have a good grasp of what you’re getting yourself into and that’s a good thing. Yes,your u/c is scrap. As Nige says,challenge your Cat dealer to sharpen his pencil.Here in the UK,Finnings are waking up to the fact that not all non Cat GET equipment is rubbish. Price up an entire ITR undercarriage and totally understand that it WILL offer you lower price per hour track running costs than Cat.
After looking closer at your potential D5,the owners have squeezed a good amount out of the tracks,but it doesn’t appear to have been run to death? It looks deceant overall and worth your time looking into it abit futher. I suspect those chains haven’t been allowed to jump too long before it was put up for sale. I’ve seen much worse
There are other aftermarket brands of undercarriage you could look into as well. DCF/Trek and ITM are a couple others.
I agree Welder Dave. I’m not so keen on the DCF/DCR Trek u/c but I’d give my right arm for ITM tracks.Can’t seem to get them here in UK anymore. International Marketeer if I recall
Thank you very much for your suggestions. I visited the Cat dealer late this morning and was shocked that my pricing above wasn't the actual cost of the parts. The prices I got from the SIS system included some NLA parts which were superceeded. The actual parts were $26,000.00 (not system one) not including tax, any bolts, nuts, washers, roller caps etc or installation. Service did mention that the idlers might be able to get rebuilt and/or some rollers might still be usable if I was on a budget. But I should safely plan on spending $30k. I'm going to look into aftermarket options, but I think my best bet is to just spend more money and get a dozer that has newer undercarriage.
I had pm you, may be you can check the conversation
In early 2020 we put the heavier duty undercarriage on a 5g there was 2 different options one what you could buy. Any how it was just about 19000 with out idlers. I think you should look in to itr.
30K seems ridiculously high. I'd bet your idlers are fine and the top carrier rollers too.
Unless I’m missing something,your dealer is suffering from some humour issues. Either way,go down the aftermarket route and forget Cat. To be honest,I’d simply put a new set of trackgroups on it and sprocket segments from ITR or the likes and put it to work. incase you’re unsure,trackgroups are simply the track chains and pads allready bolted together.They will be delivered rolled up and you can wrap them straight around the machine.Sprocket segments are the teeth that engage the bush on the chains.I’m thinking under $10,000 is what’s needed. Unless any of your bottom rollers and idlers are literally collapsed at the shafts,they will carry on working for years and you’ll never need to touch them.
A few pictures of machines that I’ve fitted trackgroups to in receant times. I expect at least 2 sets of trackgroups to 1 set of idlers and rollers. As you can see in one pic.That’s old rollers sitting on nice new rails.The lift gives them another life clear of the bushes.Ive done that to all my D8’s over the years. The D9 got new segments and trackgroups back in March 2022.To be fair,it’s now getting very close to needing rollers and idlers. Other pics show a 963 and a D6 getting trackgroups and segments in a friends yard. You’ve nothing to loose by taking a chance on all your rollers and idlers and running them again.
Here’s some pics of some well and truely worn out bottom rollers and idlers off a D8. I actually squeezed the shells out to the point where they were actually flaking. As soon as the roller flanges starting to rub the outer pins,the tractor was parked up and new undercarriage fitted to avoid unnecessary damage to bogies and eq bar etc.
Nice fence Nicky....!! The U/C parts not so much........
Glad you like the fence Nige, put the bugger up!
We can easily get over 5k hours on a set of cat chains on a D5G. We replaced the last set at 6k hours and we even found a guy to build the pads up also on the cheap. So we did a complete undercarriage, replaced the yokes and everything at 6k hours except the pads. Just replace your segments and you should be good. We lost the transmission coupler at 6500 hours also. They’ll all eventually go out so expect to replace it one of these days.
Did you take a close look at the state of the track pin bushes in the photos in the OP.?
I recently put every piece of undercarriage under a 7 roller D6D Cat and every single piece under a Link-Belt 210x3 excavator. Both for less than the price you quoted. Individually, not added together that is. One thing to consider when buying a dozer is the bigger they are the longer the bottom lasts. I can get 7500 hours out of a D6D. A friend had a big ol' Fiat 21 that used to run a bottom even longer. I love Cat undercarriage, its 2nd to none, but it's too expensive. I buy my stuff from Wilson-Finley. They have a few brands but one called KMJ is cheap and its really good. Pads are crazy hard. I have never seen grousers hold up as good. I have ran Berco too. It's okay but far from great. I don't think any brand necessarily wears a lot longer, but some brands start having parts breaking, failed bearings, etc. One piece of advice I will say is as long as those front idlers are wearing even and not trying to "steer" to one side leave them where they are.
I guess since he gets 6k hrs out of an undercarriage, they all should get 6k hrs. I’ve seen plenty not get half of that depending on conditions they’re running in.
I couldn’t pull the pics up last night but now I can. I’m going to say there ain’t no way that machine has that low of hours on it and the chains be that bad especially if you look at how bad the pads are worn. I know in different conditions undercarriage wear varies but this also aren’t the old chains that cat use to use with the old c models that anywhere around 2k hours you were turning pins. Even my D4 k2 chains look brand new at 3k hours. This is my D5 with 8200 actual hours on it, original pads and built once like I mentioned. Runs like new, zero blow by and doesn’t use the 1st drop of oil. You can’t tell by looking at the outer appearance how many hours is on it but they’ll be signs. We work ours in sand, mud and rock and out of the 4 G models we’ve owned I’ve never put a set of chains on one no less than 5k hours or broke a pin. These model dozers, it’s too easy to just pull the wire off of the hour meter when they’re new for extended warranty and rental purposes. I Know guys that use to do it all of the time.
Referencing the dozer in post #28, it has system one track groups. These wear completely different from SALT tracks which the OP has on his dozer.
I do apologize for the wrong advise. I just assumed our fleet of 2008 D5G we bought new which if I can remember were ordered with system one, was also available for the previous G models. I could be wrong about that also, It’s been so many years ago since we bought them and this is the last one we have left. We got a new rental 6 and it has the noisiest undercarriage I’ve ever heard. Sounds like the old dry chains.
You could try to run the machine as is but you will break a track in the most inconvenient place possible not to mention beat the hell out of the rest of the machine because the bottom roller flanges are hitting the pin bosses. Nox Vidmate VLC
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Don’t try to pawn this off as your own work, that’s my quote and since you didn’t cite me as your source, it’s plagiarism.
X2 what Nige said nice fence. Those fence boards look like pressure treated southern yellow pine. If so I've built a mile or two of privacy fence like that.
In that last pic the track tension looks about right. If they stay on and they aren't catching and binding, especially in reverse it won't hurt to run them if you need to. I always run a bottom until the rails won't stay on. I have ran machines a lot of hours with the bushings busted and the sprockets contacting the pins and I have never broken but one pin and that set of rails wasn't that worn out. But if they start binding and popping they can damage internal things. They will usually start binding in reverse first. And sometimes with those partial guides they will catch and that's no good. Full rock guards will greatly extend the time you can run undercarriage too, they make it about twice as hard to get a flat tire.
Thankyou. The boards are sawn down from various forests over here in the UK and Ireland and generally of the softwood coniferous variety. I’m a timber merchant by trade and also import a fair bit from Eastern Europe as stocks of homegrown timber often gets in short supply during peak months. The fence I have over at the plant yard was actually built by myself as I like things just so,and if anything goes wrong with it,I’ve only myself to blame!!
As Shop Dweller points out,running segments on pins is absolutely fine providing track tension is maintained without undue exposure on the cannon or track adjuster.In the case of hi drive tractors the addition of a top roller can help out. Personally, don’t like top rollers on D8 travtors and above as they just add costs. Last year,we had to mess about with a D9R that was allready fitted with top rollers,and add shims under the pedestals to lift them an 1”. It has worked to be fair,and the tractor is still squeezing every last drop out of the rails. The driver is extremely steady though and works in bottom gear only