I have a Pel Job EB 12.4 with the mitsu L3E 0,95 liter 3-syl engine. The machine have done more than 5000 hrs, and have not seen lots of maintenance. Overhauling this engines cost a lot because of expencive parts. I have got an offer for a L3A engine. This one is 0,7 liters and does have a little less power at the same revs as my L3E. The L3A is good for 3200 rpms, and the original L3E 2200 rpm, so the L3A is rated with higher HP. The higher revs have no interrest in a mini digger. Power at 1500-2000 is probably what I need the most. Will the lower torque in the L3A be noticeable? Is the L3A a good replacement for the L3E? Known issues with my engine : Noisy Smokes a lot 1 glow plug is 24V Hard to start under +10C (the glow plug have some influence, but I suspect low compression) Impossible to start below 0C (freezing) Uses 1 liter oil for every 40 liters diesel. Injectors probably not working well. Suspect worn head gasket Low power.
A top performing .7l engine could perform about the same or better than a worn out .95l engine. If the injectors are bad on the current engine, that will account for poor starting. low power and the smoking as well. Before you condemn the motor, do a compression test. I would replace the 24v glow plug with a correctly specified glow plug and test the others to make sure that they're working. Replace or rebuild the injectors and you'll probably see a significant difference in starting and performance. If you're not putting that many hours on the machine, I wouldn't worry about the 1l of motor oil/40hrs that it's burning(as long as you keep adding to it )
I agree pull the injectors and do a compression test as a first action, then you'll know what youre facing.
I will try do to a compression test on the engine. Sadly, the cost for 1 glow plug, 3 injector nozzles and the work fitting them in the injectors will accually take me half way to the L3A I've got an offer on.
If the compression is good, it's a lot less work to change the glow plugs and the injectors. As far as price is concerned, there's got to be place where you can get a fair deal on parts. I know that for my Volvo V70, it's much cheaper for me to look up Bosch parts and buy them than it is to go to the dealer and by the same part made by Bosch in a box marked Volvo. What you save in money is going to cost you some time and research.
If you did put the smaller engine in - will it fit right in where the original engine fits?? or will you need to 'bodge' it into place? Is the actual engine noisey?? or is it loose components vibrating e.g engine cover/other panels?? - if it is loose parts then obviously adding a different engine will not really fix this, it may even make it worse if the newer engine ends up needing to spin at 1000 rpm more to allow you to dig in your hard clay !!
I have already spent a lot of time researching, and bought 1 set of glow plugs that were supposed to fit, but didn't. It seems very hard to find the right parts. Unfortunately, this is not a car, and the after market is a little different. The L3A I've been offered have done 400 hrs, and I can have it here, included shipping and Norwegian VAT at approx $1800. The problem is, this engines doesn't grow on trees, so I think I can't spend to long time to descide what do to. I agree that fixing what I have is normally better than replacing the entire unit, but in this case I am not so sure. The L3A and L3E is supposed to be the same block with different bore. The stroke is the same, I've been told. Shuld fit like a glow. The actual engine is very noisy. It's hard to describe the noise, it is just... loud. It dosn't sound good. When I got this machine, it did not have a air filter fitted. It has been a rental machine in England, and it seems like it's been neglected for a long time. Who knows how long it's been missing its air filter? I've had a price for new piston rings, new head gasket, new all other gaskets one glow plug and three new injector nozzles. That was more expencive than buying the L3A I've been offered. I am a little concerned about the power in the L3A. If the L3E is running like it is supposed to do, it will not stall even if all 3 pumps are working full time (i.e. when a function does not go any further, but the control is not released), but mine does even if just 2 of them are.
I can see your predicament, missing an air filter no doubt has caused most of your engine issues - who knows what has been sucked in and grinded up in the engine??!! even if you did replace most of the parts you mentioned you may still end up with the same problems. If the engines are a straight swap then that is good. Is the engine close to you?? ( all I am thinking is would it be worth you taking your machine to the engine and checking it will be a straight swap and then if the seller is willing let you run 'their' engine in your machine quickly so you can see how the power is delivered and whether it is any good??) I know its more time and effort but it could save you some money in the long run!!
BTW, here is a cold start of the engine at around 0C (freezing) : YouTube - vrabg At 47 sec, when the revs drop, is when I let go of the key and the glowing stops. It would start easier with all glow plugs working, but is it supposed to smoke like that??
Not at all. I am in Norway, the engine is in the USA. Shipping isn't very expencive with jetcarrier, but trying the engine before I buy won't work. I don't find any of this engines in Norway. Their not easy to find at all.
Im only picking this up now but is the machine only used for your own use? Indirect injection diesels will put up better with poor compression than direct injection. Before you go spend a fortune get the glow plugs sorted and check your valve clearance 5k hrs they are probably fairly tight. If the smoke is slow clearing is the engine getting up to opeating temp? Is the thermostat fitted or out? Granted she mightn't be 100% put its should still be servicable for awhile.
The smoke is better after the temperature raises. I usually let it run at high idle for 5 min before i start using it. I mostly use it for my own, but I also let it out some. Not mouch, mostly just to cover expences and "for fun" to learn a little business Thermostat is a good tip. I have noticed the air from the radiator gets hot very quickly. If the thermostat is working right, the radiator shuldnt be hot at all before the engine is at normal operating temperature, right? I'll use the machine on thuesday, will try check the temperature with an IR thermometer.
Engine should warm up first give it a check
Poor engine - a sad sight to see.
Sounds to me that engine is running too fast anyway (when it gets going that is!!) compared to the peljobs that I have driven. As you know diesel engines are designed to run at lower speeds where there is more torque (that L3e engine's max torque is at 1850 rpm, the engines top speed should be 2100/2200 rpm) anything over that and you are making more noise and burning more fuel. If you turn the revs down is the machine not any more powerful?? This may help you out - your machine is the same except for the servo controls: http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/7...D-C81941627C3A/0/PJ_SiriusPlus23210039802.pdf
Hello. Thanks for your input. I think the sound is fooling you. Not too good sound on the phone, and that makes the engine sound different that it really is. I can't see any signs of the max rev screw beeing tampered with. According to the manual, max rpms shuld be 2200 rpm. I don't have any way of measuring this, but i almost never run the poor thing at max revs, usually about 2/3. There are no more power in the hydraulics at higher revs, but the engine is less likely to stall. How can I measure the engine RPMs?
Not too sure how to measure the rpms as there is no computer on the machine to do so (my kubota KX41-3 has a rev counter display e.t.c) It is good that it appears the engine hasn't been tampered with however these machines were popular with utility contractors here in the uk (especially the servo controlled machines) and they were prone to turning the engines up to spin the pumps faster therefore gaining more speed!!. Only way to really tell is to have a listen to another peljob EB12.4!! Once your engine starts it doesn't appear to be smoking all the time which is a good thing.
Hello again. I've now been offered a L3E engine. Seller don't have records for it, but they specialice in good engine with low hr count. Seller say it starts up and fire on all cylinders with no smoke. I attach 4 pictures of the engine running. Seller don't have any more info on this engine, but say it is one of the newer ones, because the engine cover is a little different. What do you think? Seller asks for $1195, and shipping to Norway is approx $350. Keep in mind 1 new glow plug is almost $200, and the same for each injection nozzle.
If you are going to go down the engine change route then like for like is the best way. If you can see it running in the pics and hear it running (over the phone!!) and all seems good then go for it. Is that a lot more cost than the smaller engine you were offered?
Price is basically the same (+$100). I'll ask the seller if he can send me a video of it running.
I got the video now. Seller say he start the engine cold, in ambient temperature 70F (21C) without using the glow plugs. It start right a way without any problems. Note there is no exhaust on the engine. I will use the one from my old one. VIDEO What do you think?
I would go for it if you want to. Starts easily, no smoke when running, looks in good condition. Will be better than the 0.75 litre engine buzzing away at higher revs and in the event the new engine is not as good as it seems you have your original engine which does run and you can swap parts over to bring that one up to scratch. I always wait for the glow plugs to warm up whatever the weather.
I think I'll tell him I take it. I use the digger every day, and today it suddenly started to drop coolant. Seemed it came from the font of the engine some where, not from the radiator. I topped up with water and started it. No sign of the leak. I started it, but still no leak. Used it for three more hours, and still no leak. It might have overheated, but I don't think so. My IR thermometer showed approx 50C after 15 min idling.
I would of thought that if the engine overheated it would of stopped altogether and seized so the leak was either a pressure build up seeping out of the system or it could of been something silly like a build up of condensation flowing away from the engine compartment which collected dirt and oil e.t.c on its way out of the engine making it look like coolant!!!! I think with the age and condition (lack of prior maintenance) of the engine there will always be an issue with it!! especially because you are working it hard, so a new(er) engine should give you trouble free days. Have you sorted a better digging bucket yet?? I only ask because I have an 18 inch digging bucket with teeth which should fit your machine sitting in my yard which I no longer require (it has only done a few days worth of digging!! - I had it for one of my Volvo EC15 minis which I no longer own) If you're interested let me know.
Well, it certainly LOOKED like there was 1,5 liter of water missing The bucket would be very interresting. Do you have any idea what the cost of shipping to sweden will be (I have a friend living there)? The bucket works very fine without the teeth. Only problem is that the pins for the bucket are the wrong one, so the bucket is worn where the pins are.
Didn't realise the machine dropped 1.5 litres of fluid (ouch!!) I believe your machine should be using 30mm diameter pins (thats what my bucket takes!!). What diameter pin has your machine/bucket got on it at the moment? or are the pins just really worn? No idea as to shipping cost I'm afraid.
I think maybe 0,5-0,7 liters are more right. I looked at the 1,5 liter bottle today, and there was still lots left. I've used the machine 5 hrs today, and it's been idling for 1 hour or so. No coolant spilled. I can measure the pins tomorrow. The problem is, the pins does not move together with the bucket as they are supposed to. This wears the bucket. Do you know the weight of the bucket? Can it be sent with royal mail?
Bucket weighs approx 45KG Pin issue sounds quite bad! are the tipping/ram links quite tight or are they loose aswell? I am sure I could find a company to send it with, unless you know of one on your end who can arrange collection and then delivery to you.
The pin issue is simply because the pins are the wrong ones. They are supposed to lock into the bucket, to make sure the pins rotate together with the bucket. The rest of the pins are like you'd expect from a machine well past 5000 hrs with minimum of maintenance. Lots of slack. I am in the process of buying the most worn pins and sleeves new. I am also buing some parts for the control arms to get rid of the rest of the slack in the control arms. Maybe I can take the bucket with me on the plane when I attend rally wales in November I don't know who I would ask to pick up, so if you can find someone to ship it with, please let me know.
It could fit in a suitcase if put on its side!! You would just need to pay the extra weight allowance!! I am literally an hour from Wales so that is not an issue. I will make some enquiries next week with regards to shipping costs.
Hello Strott,Frodes, This has the makings of quite the adventure.Looking forward to following the engine swap. Good fortunes to you both. :usa J.
Thank you. I've bought the engine, and forwarded payment instructions to the bank. Hopefully it will be paid for tomorrow, and sent this week or early next week. Unfortunately, I blew the bottom radiator hose on the digger, and that turns out to be a hazzle finding new. It is extremely tight down there, and the fan belt is also in the way, making it more difficult. Apparently, the cooling system will need a good clean. The hose blew when the engine boiled after working hard on moving the rocks in the picture. Those things are bigger than they look in the pictures :-( I suspect the thermostat is far gone, as the temperature is around 50C, but quickly raise when the machine is working hard. It might both be leaking and not opening as supposed. Anyway, that will be sorted when the new engine goes into the machine. BTW : Last time i visited the forum, my computer got infected with some kind of virus that chrashed google chrome and made IE unstable.
Hows this??
New engine is now on its way from USA. It is supposed to arrive Norway approx 15. Descember. I rewired the glowing a bit, so I can glow for how long time I want to. At -5C it glowed for 45 secconds, but i had to run the starter motor for a while before there was any sign of burning diesel at all. I stopped that and let it glow for another 45 secconds. After a little while it started. I don't think it would start at any colder temperature. -5C = 23F
Finally, the winter is fading. We've had a very cold winter, with -10 - -20C all winter. We have not had temperatures above freezing in November, Descember, January or February Anyway. Engine swap is now in progress. Old engine. Old engine behind digger, new at the left side. Better pictures to come. Notice my high tec heater It accually did work. The manifold clearly show that something was not working as supposed. Notice the build up on cylinder 3 and partly on cylinder 2. Not looking too good. I'll clean this and apply new sound insulation. I'll also redo some wires (machine is french, remember) before i put the new engine in.
Glad things are getting moving for you. Notice the original pel-job orange paint in the engine bay!!
Well, today we've had 10 cm (4 inch) of snow ... The weather forecast promise higher temperatures next week, so hopefully I can get more done. I am in no hurry, so I don't want to be outside in the cold, working on it. The original, orange and grey paint is everywhere. The respray was done really badly. I think it would have been looking better in it's original colors.
Old engine : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OZm4npicg New engine : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BPkO89OtmY Slightly better. Still not finished, but as you can see, the new engine is fitted, and seems to work perfectly. A big thanks to Aaron Lewan at Diesel Repower in Tennessee for supplying this engine, and taking the time to anser A LOT of questions from me. He bought the engine from Japan and had it shipped to the USA. He then sent it to JetCarrier in Linden, who took it to Norway and to me. This engine have really seen the world, before ending up here . Hopefully, it will do a good job for me, and the next owner.
Sounds good plus it started nice and promptly. Have you managed to fix the hour clock? if you have then at least you can ensure this one is maintained properly!!
The hour clock was fubar, but I'll put in a brand new one. I'll try to service this engine well. It have already been filled up with premium tri-syntetic engine oil, and I've bought two new air cleaners today.
Nice one
The digger is now digging The new engine is a lot stronger than the old one. It also seems it have some kind of automatic RPM control. Even at idle, it don't stall when all three pumps work at maximum pressure. The old engine would stall even if only 2 pumps were working at maximum, even with full throttle. At idle, it would stall if I tried to do anything. There is a small exhaust leak, but I'll address that later on. I have lots of work for it here, and five persons in queue for renting it. New air filter was also installed today. The maximum RPMs are quite high. The machine picked up an incredible speed The L3Es in the Pel Job EB12.4 have a maximum RPM of 2200, but I've seen it at 3600 in other installations. Will the higher RPM harm anything? I will definitively adjust it down before I let it out.
You have done a good work, why do you want a racing excavator?,2200rpm there is more than enough
I have a Winget TD500HL tracked dumper, and when I race them, the dumper always win. I've figured out, if I get the Pel Job up to around 5000 rpms, it might beat the Winget. That shuld be possible, don't you think? Seriously, I don't want a racing excavator, 2200 rpm is normally more than enough, but it would be nice being able to move it a little faster. As I said, I'll turn it down quite a bit, as I let it out, and I don't want other running it at more than "full speed".
hahaha, maybe you should put it on a gasoline engine or thinking in a little trailer to move it.
A small, italien gasoline engine, revving at 8000 rpms shuld make it do at least ... 8 kph / 5 mph I have a trailer for moving it, I am thinking more about when I move it over to the neighbours or round the house. Too high revs makes it impossible to work with, so it is not interresting running it at high revs constantly.
pel job 12.4 pump flow hi.is someone knows the oil flow for the pel job 12.4?
i have a pel job 12.4 and i have replace the engine with a perkins 45hp. with the old engine i had many problems.the perkins works very good and from 160 max bar now i work in 250 bar . of cource i have transform the body and the pipes but the pel job is very strong .
45 hp Pel Job EB12.4 with 45 hp and 250 bar sounds like fun. Shuld surprise anyone who tries it. NUC1200 : What oil? The hydraulic? I have it some where in my maintenance manual. Think it is 2x 190 bar / 9 liters a minute and 1x 160 bar / 6 liters a minute.
BTW. The new engine was mounted earlier this year. Unfortunately, it turned out to have a head gasket leak, but this engine seems to be in good shape otherwise. It always start easy, and does not smoke a lot. It also sound mouch better than the old one. New head gasket was ordered at mowparts.com (accually ordered for a Toro lawn mower) and swapped some weeks ago. The engine have now been running for a little over 50 hrs with the new head gasket, and it seems to be working fine. Replacing the head gasket was a really easy job on this engine. The only problem was tightening the bolts enough. The data in the maintenance manual must be wrong. The smaller bolts was supposed to be tightened by 6 mkg, but the first one snapped at 5. Luckily, it came loose with no problem. I tested another bolt on the old engine, and it too snapped at 5. The bigger bolts was supposed to be tightened by 11-12 mkg, and snapped at 11. I there for tightened the smaller ones with 4 mkg and the bigger one with 10.
An update. I did change the engine, and it worked well. Sort of. The "new" engine started easily in any temperatures, but the head gasket was damaged. I do not think the seller knew this. He was very helpfull getting a new gasket at a descent price, and had it sent to me for free. I only paid for the gasket it self. Well under 100$. The engine seller also helped me with instructions on how to change it. Luckily, changing the head gasket was quite easy, and nothing like changing on a car with over head cams. This little diesel have rocker arms. With the new gasket in place, the engine have been running smoothly ever since. It starts easy in any temperatures, and does not use any oil nor cooling water. A positive surprise is, it also hardly uses any fuel. The old engine would easily use 3 liters / hr, but the new one hardly use half of that. At the two last rentals, it used 8,5 liters (2,23 gallon) at 9 hrs, and 21 liters (5,52 gallons) at 18 hrs. The last one claims he ran it at full throttle most of the time. (3,8 liters = 1 gallon)
frodes I've read with interest about your engine swap........albeit a little later on. I'm trying to find a rebuild kit for a Mits L3E. (last option is a complete engine like you've done) From what I can find out, the L3 A engine is ~ 17HP and has a disp of .75 liters. Also, it uses the same 70mm stroke as the L3E but can't find what the bore is on the L3A..... (it works out to about 67.5) Whereas the L3 E has ~ 20HP, .952liters, and 76mm bore x 70mm stroke. Does this all sound correct? Also, I searched for a "Diesel Repower" in Tennessee and did not find those exact words can you tell me how to get in touch with Aaron Lewan ? thanks Gatz Nebraska
this is for a Toro Groundsmaster 223D Gatz
Good video. Either you have some very bad injectors in that engine or the air filter is almost plugged solid, and this is probably the root cause of your high oil consumption rate. Excessive amounts of fuel for the available amount of air equals incomplete combustion (black smoke). The excessive amount of fuel "washes" the oil film from the cylinder liners and accelerates piston ring/liner wear. The black smoke (soot, carbon) also is picked up by the oil and held in suspension increasing sludge and accelerating bearing wear. There is also a remote chance that your timing is off, you can do a quick "spill time" check to see if it is. If push comes to shove, you can just about shoe-horn any engine into that machine that will fit that has close to the same power curve. I have a Mitsubishi K3 engine in my mini and if it can't be rebuilt reasonably when the time comes I may just go to Surplus Center and buy one of those little Cat/Perkins engines and fit it in.
Lil Pus : The engine was swapped some 3 years(?) ago. The old one was completely worn out. There was hardly any compression left in it. Gatz : PM me your email address. I'll send you what ever I have. There is some documentation of the engine in the manuals I have for the digger. Sadly, the address I had for the guy I bought from does not work any more, and have not done so for a long time.
Gahh! My bad. Should have checked the date.
Does anybody know where I can get a part number for a starter solenoid for a mitsubishi L3e? I have the part number for the $300 solenoid that comes in Volvo packaging. However, it doesn't cross reference with anything at the local suppliers.
I have manuals with a lot of parts and part numbers for the Pel Job EB12.4. If anyone need it, PM me your e-mail.
for whatever reason, even tho' I'm logged in, I cannot open your profile to PM. Can you PM me ? Gatz
I hope you did not lube the bolt threads before torqueing them!
Hi i have just purchased a pel job EB12 old and well used, i have a house extension i am doing so i need the old girl to be fighting fit and desperate to get hold of a works manual / service booklet etc that i can down load, i have read some old threads and i see you may have some info would you be able to email them me i would be very grateful indeed Kind regards pod [email protected]
Does anyone have the manual of spare parts for this pel job EB12.4? or the reference for the Starter Motor, as my old had some kind of thermic label that has vanished. If you have the references please send it to me [email protected]
Hi, did you manage to have found the refernece for the starter motor of this eb12.4?