Stepping up a bit in equipment - size at least. Got a deal on a 953 LGP, SN 05Z00882. Buying from a known guy who has lots of equipment. It's his 'round the house' machine. My son knows him and has done some work for him (son's a machinist and has line bored a couple of his machines). Anyway, he's been real straight up about the condition. It needs some TLC for sure (exhaust leaks, broken bolt on turbo, etc). Deal is pretty good especially as we are cash tight (in start of a farm build - clearing, new roads, barn/house build, etc). $6500 now, he delivers, we fix issues (I'll get to the main one), we pay final $6k in 5 months or he takes machine back keeping 6500 and repairs we've done. I've got a few Aces in the hole on this too - my son is a machinist, his brother-in-law is a Cat mechanic for a local construction company, and his former neighbor and good friend is an over-the-road Cat diesel mechanic. Here's the machine's current status: starts and will run well. Engine overhaul about 2000 hrs ago. Decent undercarriage, overall probably 50%. Nice cab, clean, front window broke out but he has the replacement glass. Has some hyd leakage at cylinders - needs seals but you could still work with if you kept up with fluid. It started, no fluid used, on a 30 degree day - took some good cranking - but started. Son has driven/worked it. Main issue: Here we go!!!! The engine will sit and idle fine. When you run it, if you throttle back fast or work it just right, it will start coughing and appears to flood itself out. It may cough and spit a while before recovering. Sometimes this is more consistent than others as I understand it. Owner at first thought he had a bad valve so he parked it for a month or two (someone else was running it so it was coughing/spitting consistently). Recenty, he had to move it but then it ran fine. And then it ran fine when my son ran it although he did get it to experience it's coughing fits as he worked it. My 'guys' (son/brother in law/neighbor) current take is pretty wide ranging - bird's nest in intake, injector bad, gasket leak, etc. Son says fuel supply good but hasn't checked individual injectors. So, a couple questions: First, thoughts on the coughing issue? Yeah, pretty vague symptom description so far but should have more after it gets delivered this weekend. Mainly wondering if anyone's had/seen a similar type issue before. Second, thoughts/advice on other 'things we should check' while we are getting this fuel issue resolved? We are going to pull turbo, fix broken bolt, and check turbo internals out with it off. We'll get those exhaust issues, get the window in, and generally clean, lube, and check track tension. Anything else you'd recommend before we start really working this machine. Thx in advance!
sounds like a injector,if it has lines from pump too injector you can crack one at a time and narrow it down to the bad cylinder,is this a 3204 engine, i had one start to miss fire on a 3304pc and it sounded like either was in the intake, was banging and poping could barely kill the engine ,just wanted too keep running ,one cylinder getting way to much fuel and white smoke,narrowed down to #1 cylinder.shut it down restarted 3 days later no pop and bang. replaced injector all is good now
Thx Fest777. Yep, 3204 engine. Does sound similar. I was kind of hoping something simple like this! Will crack lines early on in our tests and see. If I remember correct, my son did say something about white smoke.
First thing I'd think of doing is drain the cr@p out of the fuel tank (I'll bet nobody has opened the drain valve at the bottom of the tank in years) then prove the fuel lines are clean right from the tank to the FIP, paying special attention to any oddball fittings, etc that you come across - there might be a small screen in a banjo bolt somewhere. New fuel filters and see what that does for you. Second - and the best investment you could make. An Operation & Maintenance Manual. They can be downloaded from the internet in pdf format for less than $50.
I would adjust the valves
Thx Nige and Dave. Yeah, the fuel system in these old dogs gets ignored. Good advice and I'll give it a good end to end cleaning. Filters, including fuel, looked fairly recent but good to start fresh and know exactly how old they are. Hoping not to jump into valves if I don't have to Dave. Can you fill me in on why I should go there right off the bat?
I had a 3208 in a tractor that would skip the owner replaced everything he could think of and finally I bought it I adjusted the valves and the problem went away they were a tad tight. they are easy to adjust put the timing pin in TDC adjust the closed ones turn it 360 till pin engages and adjust the rest cat has a chart that shows the ones to adjust
THX Dave. Good to know. We'll give 'em a look as we go over it. Don't know if it'll show up this weekend. Weather going to crap again (light snow and cold). I got a chicken and egg problem - I need this machine to build a barn so I can fix this machine! We also got a Case TF300 trencher that needs a bunch of work. It was given to us after it sat in a field for 10 years. We picked up a spare engine for it so hope to get that Wisconsin two banger running this weekend too .... but we can work on that in the canopy shelter with some heat! BTW, still hoping I can get the Op and Maint. Manual for the 953 for free (hoping owner has one or Cat mechanic has one in their shop). I did find a site to download for $50 (heavy-equipmentmanual.com) so will do that if I gotta. Looking forward to getting this 953 on site and running sweet. Been beating my ASV posi track silly trying to do what I need a 953 for. Thx again for the tips and I'll post how it goes.
Why not be done with it and download a genuine Cat one..? Go to - https://catpublications.com/ When the popup appears click on "Continue as Guest" Type SEBU5758 and click Search. The image below should appear. $49 for a pdf download.
THX Nige. I'll do that. When I was searching the Cat web sites were slow to the point of not working. I'll get the real deal.
Well, the 953 showed up at the farm yesterday. Started fine, unloaded, and we drove it the 600 or so yards to it's parking spot. The hydraulics are great - other than the minor seal leaks on the bucket and arm cylinders. It drove and steered well at speeds from very slow to fast. Bucket and arms move nice and smooth. Undercarriage good but the tracks do need to be tightened up a bit. Plenty of travel left, rollers and sprockets good. The exhaust is gone. Literally! Had a muffler but the flex pipe from the turbo to the exhaust completely gone. Took the muffler off but there's not even enough metal left at the base to weld a new flange on. So, new muffler and flex pipe needed. Starter is missing top bolt and is loose so gotta get that tightened up. Fluids good and all filters we checked were in great shape and clean. There's a leak in the manifold gasket but we'll get that when we get to the turbo! Now the real issue! When we got to the parking spot and throttled down it belched major white smoke. Strong oil burning smell. Fortunately our over the road Cat mechanic stopped by and helped take a look. His first comment echoed Nige - to clean out the fuel system. He thought the fuel/injectors sounded fine as it idled and ran up however ... We took the cold side pipe off the turbo and - it's a mess. Shaft has noticeable side to side movement. Blades (from what we could feel) seem OK/intact but there was a pool of oil in hot side of turbo and oil leaking in several spots. Looks like gaskets, seals, and bearings are shot on the turbo. Bottom line is I'm in for a new (rebuild or reman) turbo. I'll search other posts for more turbo info but would appreciate thoughts on sources, etc. Obviously there is a wide range between lowest and highest cost options. I'm leaning towards 'middle of the road' options but, again, I'd appreciate thoughts/advice. Other big issue is the bucket. It's seriously cracked behind the teeth/cutting bar (but the teeth/cutting bar is in good shape!). Looks like we'll just pull the bucket and take it into my son's workplace. They've got a great weld shop and the bucket is going to need serious work to repair the crack and fix/beef up the skid plate areas. Pins and bores are, for the most part, OK. They kept things well greased up. Final thing I could use some advice on - I need to replace the front window. Have the glass but I need the seal that goes around it. Any idea on sources? Is there a standard size or do I need to measure thickness of metal around window and thickness of glass and size the gasket? I'll try to add a few pics later. Again, thx for the advice/thoughts in advance!
Regarding the rubber for the screen, do you have a windshield company local to you that cuts & fits laminated glass.? They would likely have the rubber (and the locking strip) available in rolls. The turbo I'd go for a replacement rather than try to repair what you have if it's in as bad shape physically as it sounds from your description. Re fuel system. You have to start somewhere. Do that by ticking the boxes of all the easy stuff that everyone else forgets to do - drain the tank, clean the screens, look for banjo bolts that might have a mesh in them, do a proper disassembly & cleanout of the water separator, etc, etc. And if you want to know why you do that, take a look at the photos in post #3908 of this link - HeavyEquipmentForums
And the money pit opens. Pull the air cleaner and you will see why the turbo is sucking oil. Fix the exhaust system. Before you start tearing into the fuel system change fuel filters and try out the machine. Good luck Bob
THX Nige. Yeah, we're going to follow post #3908 and fully clean fuel system. Any thoughts on just replacing turbo cartridge (basically center core of turbo including both blades) vs entire turbo? The casings (which I assume are about the only things you reuse with the cartridge) are in descent shape. Cost savings is about $300-400.
If you can actually get the compressor & turbine housings off the turbo and they are undamaged internally then a replacement cartridge might be an option.
Prepping to remove bucket, clean fuel system, and take off turbo this weekend. Getting parts has been frustrating. The shop.cat web site does not recognize my machine's serial number! I chatted with them and did get a nice email back that 'it'll take several weeks to get it into the system .... but they may never get it in because it is so old'!! The "dealer" shopping web site DOES recognize my serial number but all it does is kicks you over to the local dealer to buy your parts. Not very convenient or cost effective. Very frustrating. Just figuring out what filters my machine takes - via the web - is nearly impossible or takes hours. Never had this issue with any other equipment. Anyway, I've ordered up ALL manuals - service and parts so that should help. Just frustrating to have to spend so much $ on info that should be readily available on the web. Pardon the vent!
Open an account with Offroad Equipment in Alcoa TN...? www.offroadeq.com/
I pulled it up in SIS no problem
Not sure what SIS is Dave. Tried my number in shop.cat.com again today. No go. Works fine in parts.cat.com. The Parts site just isn't as friendly as the Shop site - and surely doesn't have the same prices. BTW the Shop site has some good prices on filters and such right now. My 0714 filter is only $14. Way cheaper than I've found it elsewhere. I'll check out the offroadeq.com site tonight. THX Nige. Time to bundle up and head to the farm. 20 degrees out so gonna be a cold start. Hopefully we'll get above freezing this afternoon as we wanted to pressure wash things down before we tear into everything.
shop.cat is not designed for parts ordering as far as I can see As you have discovered parts.cat.com/ will take you to your local dealer 9unless you set it up otherwise, and this is possible) I strongly suggest that you create an account with Offroad Equipment. Here are the filters to get you going until you have a Parts Manual available. (BTW you can download a pdf version from the same Cat web site mentioned in post #9 above. Search for SEBP1431) 1R-0714 - engine oil 8N-5317 - Air primary 9S-9972 - Air secondary 1R-0750 - fuel spin-on 9M-2341 - fuel primary screen (washable) 1R-0722 - hydraulic filter (tank) 8G-8287 - cab filter
SIS is Cat's parts page Service Information System
Thx again! Nige. Will do on the Offroad site.
Went to Off Road to order up 4 filters. Filter price nice - $33.50 BUT shipping was outrageous $47.60! $81.10 total. Went to shop.cat.com. Same 4 filters (but all Cat OEM) $71.53 BUT $11.26 shipping was knocked to free AND they have a 2021 sale on so -$14.46. Add tax $2.41 and a total of $59.48. I do like Offroad prices but their shipping (from 2 locations) really killed the deal - especially with Cat's current sale. I'll keep shopping both - always good to get the best deal! BTW, spent a very muddy and wet and cold day yesterday pressure washing the 953. REALLY needed it in the undercarriage and we got lots of the oil/grime out of the engine bay to get started on tasks in there. Got the cab lifted but had to make a run back to the seller's place to get the jack off his parts 953B machine. Ours is junk - missing side plug and seals are shot. Also, got bucket off and onto my 350 flatbed. Pins in decent shape and came out surprisingly well. Bucket's headed to my son's shop today to get started on it's repairs. Serious crack just behind cutting bar. Looks like we're going to have to take a big chunk of metal out and weld in plenty of new plate. If I didn't have free use of a commercial weld shop and free welders available, the bucket probably would've been scrap. BTW, BTW. Seller also offered me a 4 way bucket for $3000 including all hoses and the additional control I'd need in the cab. Tempting .......
Here's a few pics of the 953.
My 943's make racket and low power when it needs fuel filter, like it will hardly move, popping throttle. Just sounds horrible.
Bucket will need refloor, welded over and patch paneled will hold for a little while but will be back on it chasing spider cracks OFTEN unless refloor, wear guard plates are worn to non existence. Cutting edge is toast. Idler adjusters not too far out so rails should be decent, shoes will hold awhile. Check lower rollers for play and excess wear. Could not make out segments to tell how worn.
THX DMiller! Yeah, that bucket's a mess. My son is going to do a bit of temporary patch on it (it's currently at the weld shop of his work). I agree, new floor and skid plates, guard plates at a minimum. We are both debating how much effort this bucket is worth. I do have an offer to the guy we bought this from for a 4 in1 he has on his 953B parts machine. He wants $3k and I offered $2k and I'll do all work to remove/haul. I like the idea of a 4 in 1 as most of what we will do with the 953 is clearing. Don't like the extra weight and maintenance of one. We'll see how that offer goes. Next week will be interesting. We've finally gotten past this cold snap (average high for last 7 days was 16 degrees! Pretty rare for us Missouri folk!) so we can get back on the machine. This week we plan to replace turbo (tried to get old turbo rebuilt but had issues getting a compatible cartridge. Turbo is apparently some aftermarket replacement. We decided to just go with a whole new one from Cat. Not too bad at about $500), install new exhaust and flex pipe (BTW, picked up a new exhaust stack for $99 on Amazon! It looks good but we'll see how it holds out). New exhaust manifold gasket. Pull and rebolt the starter (it's currently loose and missing a bolt). New filters all around except air (those were nice and clean). Still ned to purge/clean fuel system as Nigel wisely recommended. We're in a screamin' hurry to get this up and running for about 10-20 hours of work. Need to crush and remove and old mobile home and do some grounds clean up before an appraisal of the property (Son is doing a loan to build barn & house). Gonna be a very busy week and I have no doubt I'll be on here with some questions and asking for more advice!
4/1 is also known as MP or Multi Purpose bucket, have their place but tend to be heavy and awkward. You machine have third valve for that? GP has its place too, having a Either Or condition is not a bad idea.
Check out the total installed price on the 4in1, or how much work is involved. Maybe get the serial numbers and stop by at Cat parts guy and see how well or if you can bolt on that 3rd valve. You could also plumb up a ripper or grapple with that 3rd valve. Make sure that final payment is there or that guys going to get a great deal on his old machine! Best of Luck
I would also consider with the great access you have to a weld shop. Patch up the bucket for now, then do what DMiller was thinking and refloor the bucket. If you get into problems with the hydrostatic pump or motors the wallet may end up feeling a big pinch. If you are planning on keeping this baby, start an oil sampling routine with Cat tests. Cheap at $13 per test, and easy to mail in. If something is going wrong hopefully you can see it in the oil test reports before you have a breakdown that contaminates the whole hydrostatic system. This must be the first series of the 953 have the pumps or motors been rebuilt? Getting to show its age? Buy an infrared temp. gun, $30 at Harbor Freight. After you're done working for the day test the pumps and motor temps. Take notes, watch for changes. Best of Luck
Thx for your insight Cat977. Yeah, we'd have to add the 3rd valve from the machine with the 4 in 1. Not sure how complicated that is but I assume it's doable. Need to search this forum to see if someone has done it! If I do it I'll be sure to post the process/pics for others. From what little we've run the machine, the hydros (drive and bucket) run very smooth and even - but we do have some leaky cylinder seals that we'll need to address in time. According to the former owner (whom my son knows fairly well) and a couple of his workers, this old 953 was one of their favorite machines. Always good running and reliable. Maintenance (except fluids and filters - he always kept up on those) just got away from him as he got other newer and bigger machines and this one became the 'at home' machine just used occasionally to load top soil. When the exhaust rusted out and then the turbo started blowing oil he just parked it and decided to sell it. I was thinking of doing some oil sampling and am surprised it's so cheap to do. I'll ask the local Cat dealer about it. They are a huge outfit here in STL (Fabick) so I wouldn't be surprised they have the test equipment in house or nearby. Would be nice to get a status on the oil and then monitor as you suggest. And I do have an infrared temp gun and will give it a go. Haven't thought of that one but a great idea. We'll dig into this machine starting tomorrow. Also find out tomorrow when our new turbo will arrive. Thx to everyone for the advice and insight. You never know what you are getting into with these older machines until you get some significant hours running them yourself. Fingers crossed I got a good one!!
A 3rd valve would certainly be do-able, but you might jib a bit when you find out how much it would cost and the difficulty of finding used parts to actually make the modification. Using new parts (if they are still available) would make the cost even higher.
Yeah Nige I am wondering how its going to go. My plan (hopefully) is to scavenge all the 3rd valve parts off the 953B parts machine that we are removing the 4 in 1 from. The 3rd valve, lines, etc are all there. He said we could take any of that stuff - well, when he offered up the $3k price! Now, what that looks like 'under the hood' I just don't know. If it's a simple tap off of one of the existing internal lines probably not too bad. If it requires a different manifold or something to get the hydraulic feed it might get pretty tough. I am prepared that I'll be into welding attachment points for hoses and such as well as cutting access holes as required. I did search the forums a bit but so far haven't found anyone who has done this before - kind of surprising ... and maybe that should tell me something!! Still waiting to hear if he'll take $2k so maybe its a no-go anyway.
These are the groups you will need to add a 3rd function on your machine. This is from the build data of a machine only three Serial Numbers away from yours that was originally built with a 4-in-1 bucket. So it should apply to your machine. I'll post some more detail later but for information the Tank Group on your machine is a 3G-8142 not a 3G-8143 as listed below.
Wow! Great info Nige! THX. Yep, I looked those all up and it looks like that tank group may be the kicker. I'm very curious to see guts of the 953B to see the differences. We're pretty side-tracked from the 4 in1 right now just getting the 953 up and running. Got new exhaust stack and down pipe installed. Got starter rebolted tight - those are some fun bolts to get to! Two missing so we had to use standard bolts (correct size per Cat dealer) but not the 12 point like original. While we had air cleaner housing off (for easier access to starter) we gave all that a good cleaning. Got new exhaust manifold gasket on. Amazingly we didn't break off any bolts/studs doing exhaust manifold or turbo! We do have a crack in the exhaust manifold. It's right in the casting where it splits entering the turbo. Doesn't look like the crack extends anywhere external but we'll keep a close eye on it. The exhaust gasket was blown out so bad in two places there was no way we could've even seen if the manifold itself was leaking. Now we should be able to see if it is. Hope not - I'd rather not drop another $150 right now. Painted up some rust on top and touched up the air intake. Also, took radiator fan guard off and got a lot of the oil/dust build up off the radiators (they were 1/4 blocked up!). Pulled access doors and back radiator grill so I can paint those up. Waiting now for turbo (Friday we hope) and son to finish up welding bucket (tomorrow I hope). Once we're running (Saturday we hope) we'll do oil change and fuel system purge. Thank goodness we've had some nice - but very muddy!!! - weather!
Have you checked your PMs recently.?
Got it Nige. Thx. Hope I get the chance to make that conversion one of these days!
Been a while since I've posted on this as I've been just screaming busy. We got turbo in, exhaust plumbed up, and things running. Engine purrs like a kitten! Had some oil leakage at the turbo but it seems to have stopped after about 5 hours run time. Had quite a bit of smoke out of the breather tube. LOTS at times. However, the more we've run it the better its been and lately we've got virtually no smoke out of it. Now that we're running and things have settled a bit, I'm down to fixing the 'nice' stuff to have. As is typical on these older machines, people have buggered up the electrical system. This one had the buzzer, gauges, and Hobbs disconnected or not running. On the bright side, they did plumb in an oil pressure gauge that was working. I've replaced both oil pressure sensors (disconnecting the oil gauge for now) and reconnected wiring. No oil pressure light so OK there but when I pulled the oil gauge they put in and put a sensor back in (and connected the dangling wires) I did not get my Hobbs running like I thought it would. Need to debug that one some more. I have a buzzer alarm working now but my light doesn't work. Put a new bulb in but still need to debug that one a little further too. EMS lights all work at test but I've got a Trans temp and an alternator light flashing when I'm running. Also both temp gauges are not working (but they both bench tested OK). Got a lot of debugging left to do to chase all the gremlins out but the Service manual has some very good EMS troubleshooting guides. I'll work my way thru them and post more if/when I get stuck. Also, I plan to hook that oil pressure gauge back up along with the two sensors. Just got my little screw in manifold for that in the mail today. Once I get that done I'll create a post with full details on what I did. I know a good running EMS should catch bad oil pressure issues but I'm just one of those guys who likes to SEE how my oil pressure is. Like to know if its running high/low and such. Anyway, Thx again for the comments/thoughts. I'm so glad to have this 953 running and the work it's done so far is just fantastic (crushed and dumpstered out a mobile home, cleared a couple small fields, made significant progress on a road build). It's the perfect compliment to my ASV MD-70. With us both running we can really get a lot of work done!