Hello - Recently started working for a rural township in northern Wisconsin. Have been doing a fair amount of grading of our gravel roads this fall but the outgoing guy didn't give me a whole lot of advice on plowing snow with the grader. We have an International truck/wing setup as well as a John Deere 770 with cable wing for maintaining the roads. Was wondering what everyone's opinions are on plowing snow with the grader....do you let the blade float while on paved surfaces. I believe my predecessor would drop the blade all the way down then just lift it a hair. I wonder if that really accomplishes anything versus letting it float. We do not have carbide blades on the grader so they are changed fairly often. Thanks for any advice.
You can let the blade float on blacktop unless it gets packed in then you have to stand on it and peel up the hardpack Front plow also? On gravel in the right conditions sometimes can float the crown and control the shoulder side, the outside is always softer where they don't drive Watch your wing cable it needs to stay taught don't let it get slack or it will brake when it has a chance make sure to have extra cable and clamps available study the cable routing now take pics with your phone its not hard to replace but even easier to mess up when its -30 and blowing
Thanks Jonas. No front plow other than the V plow that is used a half dozen times or so per season. Getting the seal replaced on one of the lift cylinders this week so already took a bunch of pics of the cable path. For our gravel roads....some have good gravel....some aren't much more than a cow path so I'll likely be holding the blade up a bit on those.
I'm guessing that you have significant accumulation of snow judging by your location and accessory equipment. Do you have tire chains? A shop to thaw the machine out in? Snow mitigation with a grader is serious business with the speed that is necessary to keep things moving well. The blade is not designed for give, even in "float". Puts a lot of wear and tear on the machine and the road. Get to know your roads and priorities, (school bus routes, traffic patterns, hills, etc.). What are you going to do if you get stuck? How will you handle driveways? In my situation I chain up early, (4 sets on the tandems), and leave them on until I'rm ready to go back to grading. My roads are usually soft until after the first snow, so I am careful to just expose enough road to faciliate melting and hope they freeze up to a hard surface soon afterwards. Here, sun and low humidity will "evaporate" the remaining snow and ice even in freezing conditions provided some of the road base is exposed, (all of my roads are gravel). Problems show up in the spring when they begin to thaw unevenly. Best to have clear roads by then. Good Luck, you came to the right forum for good, experenced information and advice.
rsherril - sorry it took so long to reply. Yes, we can get a fair amount of snow here but outside of a major snowstorm the typical snowfall at a time will be maybe 1 - 6 inches. We have a mix of asphalt and gravel roads the majority being paved. The town quit plowing private driveways several years ago so that it a plus. We have three sets of chains and plenty of extra links for repair. I don't believe the previous patrolman ever chained up more than one set of wheels in his 32 years there. All the equipment goes into a heated shop at night (or whenever you're done). We keep it about 60 degrees inside. We have very good working relationships with the neighboring towns/villages and help each other out if someone get stuck. If it's really bad there's a heavy tow company about 20 minutes away. In addition to the grader we have an International 7400 dump truck (single axle) with plow and wing.
I never use float, I like to be in control of the MB. I find on float it seems to bite manhole frames harder. I learned to plow on an old 14E so it didn't have float anyway. Once the snowbanks are bigger and harder, you can use your wing like a rudder to get around sharp corners. Until then, a bit more pressure on the right side of the MB can slide you around
Sounds like your in good shape, better than I these days. I would recommend that you consider going no chains or all four tandems wheels chained as I posted a similar question and was told that the unequal traction could result in excessive stress on the chained wheels resulting in damage inside the tandem case, (broken drive chain maybe), causing bigger problems than I would want to deal with. Given that you will going faster under full power, a sudden slow down due to the blade being close to or on the road surface, this was a real possibility in my circumstances. I'm all about avoiding problems, especially in the cold and snow. By driveways, I meant leaving a windrow of snow and ice where the driveway hits the road. Some people can get quite irrate upon discovering their driveway blocked, especially if the previous guy would clear it. I generally slow down and square the blade as I go by to carry most of the windrow past that point. Maybe your township has a policy on this.
One thing I would mention is that once you get the ends of the blades set (I use float to get it level on the ground) use the moldboard tilt to apply or retract pressure as needed. Easier in my opinion than working both ends all day long. Good look on your new endeavour !
As mentioned...a lot of good info here. Getting new seals on one of the wing cylinders tomorrow then the wing goes on. Weather Service is talking about a mix of rain/snow tomorrow and again mid-week. Put the spreader on the dump truck before I left for the weekend. We have a couple roads with steep hills intersecting down onto a state highway so we try to give them a little more attention so people aren't sliding right out into traffic. I forgot to mention we have a part-time guy who helps with the mowing and plowing. He's been a huge help in bouncing questions off of as well. He said the previous guy would float the blade all the way down then "jerk" the handles up just a bit to take some of the weight off the cutting blade. I guess when you think about it, that's a huge amount of weight on the grader blade compared to the snowplow on the dump-truck.
RVR6000, Glad to see some new blood getting in this game! I have been doing this for a while and if I am on new blacktop I always let the blade float, it seems to clean things up pretty good. I usually start out with the moldboard tipped back just a little then every mile or so roll it ahead just a touch. This gives you basically a new edge, once it is rolled all the way forward back it up & start over again. You will want to get on your heaviest traffic roads first before they get it packed down. Everybody has their own way of doing things, I'm sure you will figure it out. We might not be too far apart, I'm in Rusk Co. Good Luck!
The city boys here plow with a big Austin Western, front plow angled left to push toward the divide, blade angled left, wing pushing left and the ass end crabbed over with a grader clearing almost three lanes in one pass and really hauling!
On gravel you have to carry the blade. This is a developed talent. I have good lights, good mirrors, I can glance in the mirror and see what I'm leaving. When I start seeing bare ground I bump up a bit. Better to leave an inch of snow than to peel off all the gravel. As for chains, in 30 years I've never just chained one tire on each side. I don't even understand the point. Other than laziness. I depend on chains to get me out of the tough spots. Why would I want half the traction. This will be my first Winter with a 6wd machine. I'm anxious to see how that works. We have a JD672G with 14ft moldboard, front V plow and a bolt-on wing for equipment. I always hope I never have to use the wing. Last year for almost a month straight I had the plow and wing on. That tests your operator abilities. Speed is your friend. Push snow as fast as your abilities allow. I normally run 15mph when simply blading snow. Snow conditions change constantly and that speed goes up or down depending on what works best.
8 - 12 inches of snow forecast tonight starting about 9pm with winds gusting to 40mph. Will cut out of work a little early today so I can come home and take a nap. Will be going in early and expect tomorrow will be a long day...haha. All the gravel roads were frozen over a few weeks ago but then we got a warm spell and many of them opened back up (was grading last week) so will have to give some extra care on those. Want to thank everyone on sharing your expertise. Will let you know how it goes. We're just south of Siren. https://www.weather.gov/dlh/weatherstory
I spent the last couple days going over my roads again. Might be the last time before they freeze and/or we get snow. We had a very tough year for roads. Two Disaster level rains that gutted them. After running them a dozen times I finally have them back in shape and pretty solid. Sure makes snow pushing easier. Good luck tomorrow and stay safe!!!
Work your drifts uphill wherever possible. When the drift breaks over your vee blade you have a better chance if you are trying to back downhill.
Yep. And better to stop 3ft short than 3ft too far in. I've never got stuck pushing snow. But I've had to rowboat myself back out of a few drifts.
It's been a few years since we've had a bad snow Winter. Probably jinxed myself.....
Done with the first blast of winter. Overall, I think everything went pretty well. Started out yesterday morning about 0330 with the dump truck just clearing a couple of the busier roads running through town. No school yesterday so was nice knowing I wouldn't be meeting any buses. Got done with that about 0600....took a little nap til our part time guy came in at 0800 and then we went out again - him in the dump truck and me in the grader. Hands down, I'll take the grader any day over the dump truck. It may be slower but I think it does a much better of clearing the roads than the plow truck. Good visibility of the wing, can see the kind of snow (wet, dry, slush, etc) rolling off the blade. At least 80% of the paved roads had a decent layer of ice under the snow so I let the blade float a fair amount of the time. In areas where I could see pavement I took some weight off the blade. I only had to do a couple of the gravel roads but no real issues to speak of....held the blade up a little initially then worked it up and down as I went just like when grading. It was windy but the drifting wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. Snow wrapped up about noon and winds died down about the same time. Was out this morning for a few hours sanding and cleared a couple small finger drifts but that was about it. OVRSZD - you mentioned having good lights a few posts back. That's something I think I'll have to look into. It was dark before I got done last night and the lights on the grader are showing their age - not super bright, cracked lenses and are getting foggy, etc. Considering how cheap nice LED lights are now and how little power they consume I think it would be a worthwhile upgrade. I might have to ask the board if I can replace them. Thanks again for all the advice. Really appreciate it. Hope you are all having a good Thanksgiving.
Glad you got along well!!!! In regards to pushing on gravel. If I can look in my mirror and see bare ground I have my blade too low. If you do that very much you'll be embarrassed next Spring by how much gravel you have thrown off in the ditch. I prefer to leave an inch of snow if I can. If you buy lights definitely get LEDs. They are pricey but worth it. I had my roads in very good shape last week. Last couple days we've been in the 40s-50s with rain. There are still some crops left to harvest. My roads will be in real bad shape by the end of this coming week. This time of year I just want the roads to freeze and stay frozen until late February.
One thing to consider is that LED lights do not generate heat so ice buildup can be problematic. There are heated versions but the price goes up as does the power consumption. Either way they provide superior light to normal incandescent’s. Happy plowing !
ovrszd - I hear ya on the frozen ground. We had a blast of cold temps the first part of November that drove the frost down about 6". I still had a couple roads I was hoping to smooth out before that happened - just didn't work out with all the rain we got in late fall - but part of me was happy that everything would be solid for plowing. Then we got a week of mild temps and everything thawed again. Got those last couple roads graded but then the ground was fairly warm for that first round of snow we got this week. Now we're getting a weekend long snow storm. Was out for about 6 hours today clearing the busier roads as best I could with the truck. Still trying to decide what time we will head in tomorrow. Sounds like this snow will run through about noon - 8 more inches possible on top of the 4 we got so far today. If that's the case I don't suppose there's much sense getting out too early.
I've always been Blessed with the ability to "sleep on demand". Partly comes from a lifetime in the Military. I can go to sleep anytime of the day or night. Comes in real handy when I find myself in the position you are in. Traditionally our snow storms and wind lay down at night. So I sleep all day and work all night. Is the snow pattern you are in normal for your area? I don't know what to expect here. We've already had three small snows, nothing that needed pushed. Our long range looks good to the middle of December at least. I'm expecting our Winter to be moderate until late January, then explode.....
Just a couple things to consider. if you have a prevailing wind direction sometimes it’s better to plow down wind to prevent an upwind windrow that will create a deeper drift. Once it starts drifting in you will battle it till it melts or you push out the drifts. Sometimes it maybe better not to plow a spot it to keep the drifts from starting. Another thing I do is, hold up your wing a bit to keep the sholder/edge of the road delineated so drivers don’t loose the edge of the road. In wind blown areas this may not work so well. It’s imperative up on logging roads or where the edge of the road drops off, so you don’t create a “false road/shoulder. Plow out all your turn outs and road surfaces to the full width of the road each time you plow. You might also try to plow in a tall gear to throw the snow as far as possible to prevent drifting. Plowing with the truck really helps with this. I get 6-10’ of snow on my roads and by the end of winter you need all the room you can get early on. Our County puts a high intensity Green colored lazer beam mounted on the cab roof pointing out in front of the truck to show the “Right Cutting Edge“ of the plow. This way they can plow 4” from every mail box and don’t hit any. They also turn on a GPS tracker to show where they plow with each truck. It’s linked to a web site so anyone can view in real time what was plowed after the truck left the shop. Sharq bits are amazing if you know how to use them. not everyone likes them. You can cut really hard packed snow and ice 8-10” deep in one pass. The P300 bit leaves a groved shaved ice surface on the road top that provides better traction and requires very little down pressure. You don’t run these in “Float” or they will not last. I run 6) studded Trygg SMT chains all winter on a Cat 143H. They are the best chain out there! Constant pattern on the ground all the time. I run a lighter gauge chain in the front -less weight on the front wheel assist. Keep them tight. High speeds will drastically reduce their life. White Mountain Chain in Bonners Ferry Idaho ships everywhere. Hope these tips help a bit.
Hi Leighva Great information there. Love the idea of the laser pointer to show the edge of where you are. Happy plowing!
I’m not sure where they get them but they are about 4x6x8 inches in size as I recall. They are in a metal box bolted to the roof with a plate that allows it to be alined/aimed on each truck. It puts down a 6-10” long beam that’s maybe 2” wide. It’s very easy to see. It really stands out on the snow during the day.
Especially bad if you're on a paved surface too.
I'm not lucky enough to get to push snow on pavement.....
So, I guess we're about half way through the winter (I hope). Has been a fairly mild winter so far here in Northwest Wisconsin. We've had a few snowfalls in the 6-8 inch range otherwise they've been the annoying inch or less kind. For the heavier snows the part-time guy and I both head out...me in the grader and him in the truck. It's obviously slower but I definitely enjoy operating the grader far better for clearing snow. Visibility and the overall quality of the plow job seems much better. First couple snowfalls were very wet which quickly turned to packed ice as people drove over it. Cutting edges were getting pretty close to needing to be changed so I let the blade float a majority of the time in these situations. The last few have been nice and fluffy allowing me to hold a little weight off the blade. Getting up to 7th gear gets that snow rolling pretty good off the wing and into the shoulder. Took a long time for the shoulders to freeze up which equated to a lot of sod rolled over during the first few clearings - even the 30+ year village and county guys were saying they've never turned over so much dirt as they have this year. Funny thing - if you go 4 feet off the shoulder the ground still isn't frozen - was pounding in new fire posts last week. So, we'll see what the next couple months have in store for us. Haven't needed the chains on the grader yet but did chain up the dump truck once after some freezing rain moved through. Thanks for everyone's advice - it has been a huge help as I get the hang of this new job.
Thanks for the update. We've had 11 snows now. None big. No drifting. Last one was layer of ice, then 5" of heavy wet snow, then a layer of ice on top. It sucked bad. Roadbeds were not frozen solid. Very easy to gouge the roadbed. A lot of trouble with the grader wanting to lope. Now for the next two weeks we are supposed to be right at freezing daytime and mid 20Fs at night with cloudy conditions. So we are in a stalemate weatherwise. No chance of any sizeable moisture. I expect to come out of this with an extreme swing as it's been for the past year.
Check your tire pressure for loping problems.
Yep, changed the tire air pressure to no avail. Was simply the snow conditions. I pushed again a couple weeks later and ran my roads the fastest I've ever done them. 50 miles of roads in 7hrs. No lope. Enjoyed the day immensely!!!!
I noticed that you said you are not using carbides and find that you are changing edges quite often. Only referring to this part of your question I would share this idea. When running in float the blade is always putting force down to find the bottom. This over time is going to wear your edges faster compared to setting the edge as your predecessor did before. Lowering the edge down and lifting up a bit. I think there is a whole other conversation that could happen with the preferred style of cutting edge for snow removal with grader. But again I am only referring to that comment of your original post. I would be interested what others think about my view on float affecting wear life of cutting edge. Thanks all
I'm not fortunate enough to run any paved roads, only gravel. I carry the blade all the time......
The city boys here plow with a big Austin Western, front plow angled left to push toward the divide, blade angled left, wing pushing left and the ass end crabbed over with a grader clearing almost three lanes in one pass and really hauling!
Get that much snow in Florida...
You sure you don't mean blade and wing angled to the right. Seems counter productive to have the blade and wing pile the snow up in the left lane where the front blade just cleared it. But them I don't know much about Florida snow.
Yesterday I woke up to 1 and 1/2" of snow on the ground. This morning woke up to another 1". Supposed to get 3-5" tonight. We got our first snow last Fall 172 days ago. This is extremely unusual for us. Been lucky to not have any really big snows. But by my count this one tonight will be our 25th tracking snow. What the He**!!!!!
Don't forget, it's melted off by noon.....
Picked up 6-8" of very heavy wet snow. I started pushing at 4 a.m. and quit at 10 a.m. because it was melting so fast. Our ground was warm. Good thing, we would have easily had 12" if frozen.
Yeah we had a wet heavy storm with high winds last week. I think we got a foot no problem, but it is gone now. Lots of sod and gravel piled up though. My grader is still parked for the winter, but they put a new cuttin edge on my box blade for my loader. A few asphalt patches got scraped off.