I just repacked my swing cylinders and thought I would share my experiences. As always, dealing With New Holland was a trip, but Messick's made the ride a little more doable. That said, the extra parts that I needed were delivered to me 1 day. Not bad for a 20+ year old machine. This is not the first time I have been able to get parts the next day delivered for this machine. I am attaching this as a PDF file. Messick's sent me the attached bulletins, so I figured I would share.
Thanks for sharing. I made a folder and saved them all. So did your tractor have the earlier cylinder or one of the late ones? Will the early units have to have a new cylinder?
Great job..... A quality write-up !!
From the looks of it, you didn’t actually take the cylinder off the machine? Interesting.....
my 98 555e developed a leak in the pass3nger side swing cylinder over this winter..looks like i have tobadd this to list of summer times fixes to do..lol..thqnks for the writeup!
NH575E, The quick answer is that I had the early one (Before SN: 031024289), by a hare. So, mine is the welded trunnion style that is known to leak...LOL. The good news is that mine does not seem to be leaking. If it were to develop a leak you can be sure I would weld it before purchasing a new one. The cylinder that was installed as a fix (After SN:031024289 But Before SN 031044515) was, in my opinion worse because it was unthreading. I guess 3 times was a charm for the swing cylinder, and it was finally fixed after SN: 031044515! Your machine should have the same cylinder as mine, according to the bulletin...all prior to SN:031024289 are the welded, but I wouldn't know for certain. I know we have had different dimension cylinders in past discussions. Unlike the crowd cylinder that I did, I just looked up the kit for my swing cylinders and there was a note ( Welded Trunnion; {SN Break} Before 031024289 ) that identified my correct kit, and it fit .
Thanks T-town!
cosmaar1, Yes, you are correct, I did not remove the entire cylinder. I would of had to if I could not crack the gland nut loose. I have repacked all but one of the cylinders and have not removed a single whole cylinder...that is just too much work...LOL
Toxic, Hope my writeup helps you! Crack those gland nuts first so you know if they will come out. If they do, no need to remove the barrel of the cylinder. This saves some major work. Also, keep in mind you will need a way to crack the piston bolt...it is tight and has Loctite on it. Worst case scenario, you could take the whole piston rod assy. to someone that can zap it off for you. I used a 1" drive impact like you see in the pic.
A little more about the "snap ring." It really isn't a snap ring it is a flat washer that is staked to lock the gland in place. Mine broke when I unthreaded the gland. I did not expect this, and this is the part that I had to order from Messick's. Messick's did not have it in stock, so they had it drop shipped from New Holland. There is a $7.00 charge for this (in my mind worth it for 1 day service). This is in addition to the UPS (if it were USPS I would still be waiting ) shipping charge. I purchased 2 because my luck is not good, and of course the other one was not broken...LOL I used both new ones anyhow and saved the good used one, just in case. The 2 flat washers (4.5" id x 5" od) cost me a total of $108.88. I feel this is crazy money, and that they should be in the kit as a consumable, but it isn't. And in the grand scheme of things an extra $100 wont kill me.
For a hundred bucks those would have got left out on my machine. Guutentite and wish it well.
Wow good for you. I’ve seen people remove the gland as you suggested, but never heard of someone replacing all of the seals while still on the machine. Great job.
NH575E, LOL... I honestly put an O-ring on the gland. there is a grove just behind the head, I have seen many cylinders on aerial lifts with just an O-ring in the groove. So, I put it in and assembled the cylinder. The problem it the staking notches cut the O-ring as it was tightened...again, no luck!
Swetz..i do have a 3/4 IR impact...if thats not enough i will go buy a one inch. im like you in that i have no intentions of taking the barrel off unless absolutly necessary. i am curious why there are 3 hydrolic lines going to the swing cylinder tho.
Toxic, Look at the pic below. There is really only one feed and one return to the valve bank, at a time. However, because the cylinders work together and one is extending while the other is retracting , the oil is moved between the cylinders. This is very different that the 2 cylinders on the front loader that extend and retract together.
ah makes sence now after seeing the diagram..Thanks Swetz!
Just an FYI, if you ever have to replace the hoses going back to the valve block, you will never find the same type of fittings, but I was able to save $100 by getting them done locally. You MUST make sure that the hoses still have a swivel connection in them, or they will potentially twist and rip off.
Swetz, I’m about ready to replace my seals, but wanted to ask a quick question. If you didn’t destroy the washer, can they be reused? I’m going to buy the kit you suggested to me on another forum and was wondering if I also need to buy them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/85802570-S...6533?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs_0
You will not need them if they are not broken like mine was.
Ok great thank you. I didn’t know if it was a crimp type washer. Merry Christmas!
you do bend it...towards the barrel and towards the gland, to lock the 2 together. In the pic below, you can see that it broke at one of the bends. The other washer did not break, and could have been reused if flattened out, and turned so that it will get staked (bent) in a different spot. Merry Christmas to you as well!!
Good advice thanks.
Swetz one more question. On your outer wiper seal (blue one) did you press that in or beat it in with a mallet? I saw a YouTube video that pressed it in, but I don’t have one and was wondering how you did it.
I tapped it in with a hammer, being very careful to keep it square in the bore. If it starts to get out of square, it can be removed and repositioned. I guess if you had a large driver, you could use that too, but the seal part (blue part) protrudes from the steel ring that holds it in the gland.
Interesting. On the video I watched it looked like it was recessed about 1/4” into the gland. Thanks!
Just went out and tool this.
You are the best!!
Well I went out and tried to get the gland nut off so I can rebuild the cylinder. 3.5 hrs later and I don’t even think it moved. Tried a little heat, used a 4 ft breaker bar, peend a little, used penetrating oil, and still nothing. I really do not want to take the cylinder off the machine. Any other ideas on how to get it off? It’s not near a shop and if I go a compressor route I’m only able to use a small 15 gallon one. I did find interesting there was two crush spots on the cylinder. The other swing cylinder only has one.
I would swing the boom as far as possible to give you the most room at the gland. Do not be shy with a large size hammer to do your peening. Be sure to clean out the pin holes (I used a drill bit by hand). Be sure to get the pin that is closest to the size of the hole in the gland. Don't remember which pin it was at this point, but as close as possible to the diameter of the hole in the gland Be sure the ring staking is removed with a punch. I use a large breaker bar, like 4', with a pipe on it. I think the pipe is 10', but I slide it all the way up on the handle of the breaker bar. You may need a helper to keep the tool square with the gland as you pull on it.
Gland seals need to be seated on the bottom of the bore they are put in. If the lip of it extends beyond the gland face, is flush, or recessed it will be determined when the seal is properly seated.
Swetz, for the sake of asking, do you think these cylinders really need the locking ring? Reason I ask is because I’m finding them backordered online and the hydraulic shop I am using is willing to use all the seals I bought for it. Obviously if my ring is broken, which I assume it’s going to be, I’m going to need a new one.
Well, when I did the cylinders, many on here commented that there is no way they would pay the $$ I did for the rings. My only concern, is without the thickness of the ring, will the seals be in their proper position? If yes, I suppose they could be omitted. I did a search on Messicks, and they are 3 to 7 days out if you order them. I wonder if a skilled welder could weld the washer back together, and grind it flat?
To be honest I would not try and weld that lock ring back. I bet its not even steel, its probably some sort of compressible material. I also hate paying $50 for that ring, as its even more than the cost of the entire seal kit I bought!
Look for a plain ole external snap ring and grind the ears off of it. Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of people selling them. Here is link to what is available.
The problem with this is that when you begin to torque the gland against the snap ring, it will open and come out of the groove. I thought about reinstalling the one that I had break, but as soon as I torqued the gland it came out. Cosmaar1, I think it is steel. It looks like a large diameter steel washer. NH specs it out as 116MM ID X 127MM OD.
Couldn't the ring be left out, tighten the gland slightly and then drill a hole in the gland and barrel, and install a screw to secure it in place ? Case did that for many years. They used a self tapping screw a 1/4 " long. I rarely ever reinstalled them and I never had a gland get loose
Not sure. Maybe cosmaar1 could give it a try and let us know if everything is good. Honestly, I don't think you would even need the screw thru the barrel. Cosmaar1 is only using the hoe on his property as I understand it.
This is a good example of the retaining screw that Case cylinders use. It would be easy to install one and it is cheap insurance against a gland getting loose. Although the gland isn't shown, 1/2 the width of the screw hole is in it. For those that are new to cylinder resealing world, the gland does not need to be stupid tight against the barrel end.
All this worry about a gland nut coming loose that a 20 mule team and a 8 ft cheater bar can't loosen?
LOL...I am with you! I used to rebuild hydraulic cylinders for bucket trucks, and we never worried about them coming loose. Never saw one come lose either. Have seen the bolt on the piston come lose.
Ain’t this the truth!!!! Swetz, my thoughts exactly, I was going to see if the hydraulic shop would install it without if it’s broken. I called Messicks today and it was $53 plus tax and shipping. No thanks. Tried searching online and it’s not a common item. Tink, you have some good ideas. I’m betting that might work.
Dropped the cylinder off at a hydraulic shop today. Come to find out they are a subsidiary of Cat which is nice. The guy I talked to said that if the lock ring is in 1 piece they will reuse it, but if its broke, he sees no reason to put it back on. I trust his input as he has done a lot more of these than I have. Not to mention if I can't get the stupid thing off now, in 6 months it's not going to move anyways.
Keep us in the loop how you make out at the hydraulic place. If it turns out good, I am sure there are members in the area that would give him some business. I am just hoping that the rings are fine, and my broken ring was an oddity.
So I dropped the cylinder off last Wednesday and got it back yesterday. I have not run the cylinder yet, but the shop said it was bench tested and all worked fine. They were able to use the seals I bought from Chris at CEA and also honed the tube and polished the rod. $450 later and it’s back on the machine now waiting for my hydraulic tank to be redone. Below is a link to the place I went. They are part of Cat, but they kept their own name and have separated themselves so that they can work on all equipment, not just Cat. The guy you want to talk to is TJ as he manages all the of cylinder work. https://www.google.com/search?q=com...ymAEAoAEByAEJwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp If any of you remember I found out that my 555e toolbox was leaking water and then drained into the tank. I sealed it up temporarily with caulking that was high temp and water/oil resistant and it worked for the last year or so. Since I am low on fluid because of the leak, I am going to fix it up by cutting all the rust out and welding that stupid toolbox shut like it should have been in the first place. I’ll post pics once it’s all done.
Ahhh, yes, that dumb leaky toolbox that I assume I have as well... I guess now that I store the machine inside its probably time to redo the hydraulic fluid again.
I would tell anyone that has a machine with that stupid toolbox to weld it shut after the problems it’s caused me. I’ve changed the oil twice since I found out it was leaking. Today when I drained it, the oil had very little water in it. I’m hopeful that took out the last bit of water that was in the system. It’s been sitting for about 2 - 2 1/2 months due to bad weather and the cylinder issue so not seeing any water is great for me. Luckily I bought 10 pails of TSC fluid before it skyrocketed to 53 + tax locally. I got it on sale in November for 29.99 + tax.
That is great news. I guess that cylinder nut was no match for the equipment they have. Perhaps, because my machine spent most of its life indoors, the toolbox did not rust thru. When one of the members (I think NH575E) started talking about it, I checked my machine out. It was in the early stages of rust. So, I was able to POR-15 it, and then put the bedliner that they sell for a pickup on top. So far, it is still 100%, but I do keep my eye on it...Hopefully, the guy that designed that toolbox is gone...Wonder what else he can be credited with...LOL Thanks for the update!!
I guess I got lucky on my oil tank. I cleaned it out early on and painted it but later sprayed a coat of rubberized undercoat in it and repainted it. Mine has always had a little pressure escape when I loosen the cap with it warm so I guess it's void of any holes. I keep the drain holes open and use the tool box to store chains. I did use to get water in mine when it lived outside but i think it was getting in around the old cap and from condensation. Haven't had any water issues since it moved into the barn and installed the generic cap. It has the sound of pressure escaping hot or cold with the new cap.
I don't know that I would weld the tool box lid. Depending on how bad the floor is you might want to just fiberglass it or something and enlarge the drain holes so they don't clog as easily. If you do weld it don't forget to weld in the drain holes. Mine has one in front and.rear.