A friend and fellow contractor got pulled over today in his 26,ooo gvw truck with trailer and mini excavator and the NJ DOT said that the operator needed to have a CDL. We have the F 650 that is rated for 26,000 and pull our machines regularly. My father and I need to get our CDLs now it seems. Rather than just going for the test through the state or through a driving school I was going to see if anyone knew of any private course or class to teach us the proper use of the rig. Were in Northern New Jersey but would travel a reasonable distance to get trained. -Eric
This issue seems to be coming up in our neck of the woods since some of the cities now have their own DOT officers. Do you know what GVW trailer they were pulling behind the 26k GVW truck? I am currently studing for the written test myself and there are numerous practice tests and web sites to go to. Just type in CDL Tests or Testing in the search engine. I have found several that have sample tests for free. I wouldn't pay for a course if you already know how to drive. Just take your F650 with a trailer over 10K GVW and you should be able to get it. Your state may have different rules but that is they way it is here. Check out this website for sample tests www.cristcdl.com The way I understand is if you have a truck 26k GVW or less you can pull a trailer up to 10K GVW without a CDL. A friend of mine was told by one of these above mentioned "freshly trained" DOT officers that he had to have a CDL to drive a GMC 3500 Dually - that was not pulling a trailer! I am taking the road test in a tandem dump with an automatic. I have a 12k GVW bobcat trailer that I am also taking so I can get an A license. I have a 55k GVW tag along but I am leaving that at home and using the shorter trailer. I am taking the written test sometime next week and the driving test April 25.
I think that if you are driving truck with a 26K GVW in order to tow any trailer you need to have a class A license (in NY anyway). Also, if you take your A road test on a tandem with a small bobcat trailer you will probably be restricted to electric brakes only on your trailer. I would say use the bigger trailer for the test anyways, cuz the longer the trailer is the easier it is to back it up, and you'll be glad when it comes time to do the 100' straight line back up, and the parallel park. Good Luck!!:my2c
The rules for our state is you can pull up to 10K GVW with a 26K GVW truck and be under CDL. It is probably different in every state. Lucky for me there is no restriction except you need air brakes on the truck to get the air brake endorsement. I can use any trailer that is over 10K GVW and get a class A CDL. I have 3 different trailers I can take. Here's a link to the CDL manual for Alabama. http://www.dps.state.al.us/public/driverlicense/manual/cdlmanual.pdf
The trailer is 10k lbs. and the truck is reg. for 25,900, I don't really understand why the CDL is needed because then any truck towing a skidsteer, would need a Class A license. I ordered a take at home practice test so hopefully that helps. thanks Eric
Yep, if you want the airbrake endorsement, then you must take the test in a combination vehicle that is airbrake equipped (both the truck and trailer). I honestly don't know what you would end up with if you took the test in an airbrake-equipped truck, but an electric-equipped trailer, but my guess would be they would NOT give you the airbrake endorsement. :yup I found it much easier backing a 45' semi-trailer with only a few hours of seat time compared to my skidsteer trailer. My CDL testing exploits are here: Good luck... Joe
Not that way here. One of my business partners took his test in an F700 29K GVW with air brakes and an 18k GVW electric brake backhoe trailer - Class A CDL. Lucky for me AL doesn't differientiate between electric or air on the trailer- you just have to have air brakes on the truck to get the endorsement. The trailer I will use will be a Trail King TK12. Its 14' deck-over, dual axle with a beaver tail. One of the sweetest trailers I have ever pulled, just long enough not to be aggravating backing up.
From what I understand you can take the test with a pick up and trailer, and get a class A with air brake restriction. But then you can take a writting test to get that air brake endorsement. So in a sense you can get class A air brake endorsement and drive TT without ever setting foot in a TT.
Kinda scary isn't it?:beatsme
Really? :beatsme In PA, in addition to the written test, there is a portion of the pre-trip inspection which specifically deals with airbrakes, and MUST be demonstrated in order to get the airbrake restriction removed. The only way to demonstrate the procedure is to be in a cominnation vehicle with airbrakes on BOTH the truck and trailer. I know in some states the testing is "subcontracted" to private companies (like driving schools), but here in PA it is done by the state, so maybe their testing standards are different. In PA we don't have a 5th wheel restriction like some states do (I believe NY is one), so it is possible to be licensed to drive a tractor-trailer without ever being in one, but you would still have to take your test in truck/trailer combo that is air brake equipped. Joe
In California you can get air brake endorsement using an airbrake truck with a trailer with electric brakes. However, you do have to explain proper hook up and testing of airbrake trailers during the pre-trip inspection. Also, here a CDL is required whenever the truck is over 26K, the trailer is over 10K, or the truck and trailer combination is over 26K. This eliminates using a trailer of any substantial weight with a truck near 26K. There are guys here pulling skid steers behind 26K trucks without a CDL (trailer less than 10K), but they cannot do it with the truck loaded with anything because then their combined weight would exceed 26K. One DOT guy claimed this is a Fed. requirement, but who knows for sure because you get a different answer from different people in the same job.
That is the way I understand it to be here in AL as well. Our tests are given by State Troopers at designated sites.
NY is different, A LOT DIFFERENT! here if you take the test with a truck trailer combo then you are restricted to just that. They call it a class A with a truck/trailer restriction. Also, you are limited to what the tow vehicle is rated for.The max is 26,000. for instance if your tow vehicle is 26K then you would need an A in order to tow any trailer. If you have an 18K Truck then you could tow an 8K trailer and be legal, but if you were over weight and you went over 26K they would shut you down for out of class. We don't have a TT, just a 33K single axle and a 20 ton tag, but I went to a local vo-tech TT program to get my class A, because I didnt want the restriction so I can drive TT if I need to. The other states sound much more CDL friendly that NY, I always thought that all of the states were the same. PS - If any of my info is incorrect someone please correct me!!
Cdl Guys: Please note that EACH STATE must meet the same minimum CDL standards; some states may be MORE restrictive, but none may me less restrictive. The following is taken from the current Minnesota Commercial Drivers Manual: The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986 requires each state to meet the same minimum standards for commercial driver licensing. You must have a commercial driver’s license (CDL) to operate any of the following commercial motor vehicles (CMV) in Minnesota: • A combination of vehicles in which the gross combination weight (GCW) is more than 26,000 pounds and the towed unit has a gross vehicle weight (GVW)* of more than 10,000 pounds (Class A) — * Minnesota law defines gross vehicle weight (GVW) as the greater of: 1. The actual weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles plus the weight of the load, or 2. The manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The whole MN manual may be downloaded here: http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/DLTraining/DLManual/PDF/CDLManual.pdf As a scale master at a gravel pit for a few years, I have had many discussions about what you can and cannot do legally with trucks and trailers and I've concluded that if you're a commercial hauler, get a Class A - eventually, that'll be the law of the land anyway. I don't claim to know it all, but most of the time if you are going to pull a COMMERCIAL trailer, of almost any size, you would be advised to bite the bullet and get your class A license. There is no sense in trying to nitpick with the DOT guys about air or electric brakes on the trailer, as they, usually, will win the argument, and you will learn a hard lesson on the side of the road. If you spend your day worrying, and looking behind you in the mirrors for cops, then you already know you probably need a Class A license. :beatsme srs/MN
In New York this is how I understand it to be; CDL C: vehicle less than 26k but over 18k trailer under 10k CDL B:vehicle over 26k trailer under 10k CDL A: any vehicle over 26k GVWR any trailer over 10k gvwr restrictions on CDL A: not outside NY no air brakes truck and trailer w/ air brakes no tractor trailer (dump truck and tag) truck and tag but truck under 26k truck and tag but truck under 18k You can have more than one restrictions and it is on the back of your license. What you show up in to take test is what you will get restricted by.
I am glad I don't live in NY.
Yeah really. Are there any other states you need a CDL for over 18K?
Yea, I hear you guys also have a "metal coil" endorsement. NY is the only state I've ever heard of with that. Nedly, where in the Adirondacks are you? My sister-in-law and her husband used to be stationed at Plattsburgh AFB, and we used to live in Kingston, NY, so we would make the trip up 87 about once a month to visit. Really nice country up there. :usa Joe
I live off from exit 30, way out in the boonies, in a little town called Keene.:drinkup
CDL requirements in Mi are similar to New Yorks. We also have hazardous materials restrictions too. Our class C license in called a Chauffers license.
I took & passed my class A CDL driving test with airbrake endorsement in PA at a state run facility with an air braked dump truck and an electric braked 18K equipment trailer. The requirement is that the powered vehicle (the truck) must have air brakes, the trailer is not required to have airbrakes. Both are not required, just the towing vehicle.
Honestly I think thats a little bit wacko. The truck part I can see, If you can drive a dump truck you can drive a tractor (if you know how to shift) But a fifth-wheel trailer pulls much different than a pintle hook setup. I drove truck-trailer a lot, and I thought when I got into the TT that it was gonna be just like it. It isnt. I am not saying it's hard to drive a TT but I wouldn't think that it's a good idea to give someone a license for one that had never even sat in one:beatsme
Well, Eric, I am not so sure if you have any answers for NJ, but we've given answers for a lot of other states
I agree. I would not ever take a job driving an 18 wheeler with a 40 van body behind it without training from the trucking company. Most responsible trucking companies train their drivers before setting them free. I've already driven an airbraked trailer since my test, it's a little more to remember, but not rocket science. The PA written test does involve quite a few questions about 5th wheel hook-up, glad hands, trailer brake release, etc.
from my guys being nailed all the time its a combined total gvw of 26k.. my guys with our f-450's and trailers (10k gvw) NEED class A's as per the state police/dot.. that knocks out probably half of the landscaping companies out there. they've nailed my guys and i had to get a lighter gvw truck to get our trailer, luckily they didn't hand out any tickets but they had 3 or 4 guys in the same situation at the truck stop.. so the DOT says you need a class a for a f450 and skidsteer trailer, but yet you can go to try to take your Class A road test and DMV and they wont let you because the truck has no airbrakes. so theres a perfect example of 2 stupid state agencies saying different things.......
I took my written test today. Common knowledge, combination and air brakes - missed 2 questions on the common knowledge. I will be taking the skills and driving test in a single axle 25900 GVW with air brakes and a 16000 GVW electric brake trailer. I will get a Class A with air brake endorsement with this setup. The examiner said all we had to have was air brakes on the truck to get the class A. The written test was easy and from looking at the skills test area, that portion will not be difficult. I take my driving test April 25 at 8:00am, so no :drinkup :drinkup the night before!
Gongrats and good luck.
Most cops don't understand the CDL laws, either. If you have an older F-450, with 15,000 GVW, LEGALLY you can tow an 11,000lb trailer without a CDL. If you have a newer F-450, with 16,000 GVWR, LEGALLY, you can tow a 10,000 lb trailer. The two units, truck & trailer, cannot exceed 26,000 lbs. As long as they're under 26,001lbs total, you are legal with no CDL. Now, let's suppose you had an F-550, with a 17,500 GVWR....and you have a 10,000lb trailer. You would think that you'll need a CDL since the total weights add up to 27,500lbs, right? WRONG. You don't need a CDL because the threshold of 10,000 lbs for the trailer has not been exceeded. So theoretically, you could have a 25,999 lb F-650 dumptruck with a 10,000lb trailer and NOT need a CDL, BUT if you had a 15,000lb F-450 dumptruck with a 12,000 lb trailer, you WOULD need a Class A CDL. Clear as mud?
Thanks. This is the way that I understand it.
New Jersey CDL help Most places the regulations are as interpeted by the officer or examiner on the spot. Once you have the citation in hand you can begin to work on getting it thrown out or reduced. Remember to be always unfailingly polite to those that are checking you and your rig out and don't get angry or mouthy. Do not volunteer any information either. In the area between class B and class A load GVRW's, especially with a trailer behind, there is a lot of room for mis-understanding the regs, and DOT inspectors take advantage of this, figuring most guys will pay up instead of fighting the citation. ALWAYS fight any citation! CM1995, remember to keep an eye on street and warning signs and particularly bridge load limit signs during your road test. A favorite ploy by examiners, is to ask you what the sign you just passed said. Don't rest your right hand on the shifter (keep both hands on the wheel whenever possible), and if you are asked to pull off the road and then pull back on, make sure you check in BOTH rear view mirrors before proceeding. The air brake tests are a piece of cake as are the tanker tests. The tough one is the hazardous. Good Luck!