So it's been a couple of years building back the work load and customer base, using what we had to complete projects and renting track hoes when they were needed. 2013 was a good year and it seems the private commercial market is picking up as we are the most busiest during the holidays as I can ever remember. 2014 looks stable, let's hope it stays that way. Add into the decision are the Tier IV machines hitting the market and all the issues that go with them. Not only are they more expensive to purchase but all the other hassle and maintenance that goes along with it. I wanted a non-Tier IV machine that was in good shape with low hours - something that is getting harder and harder to find. This is the main reason we decided to pull the trigger. If the Tier IV crap wasn't hitting the yards and you could buy a new D model anytime, I wouldn't have made the purchase. I think non-Tier IV machines will hold their value better going forward. We need a machine to last us 3-5 years and put 6-8K hours on it and then we'll go from their. So here she is, a 2011 Cat 321DLCR. This was in my local Cat dealers rental fleet and had 1800 hours on it when I got it. Normally I wouldn't buy a rental machine but this machine spent most of it's hours rented to 2 different companies. On the lowboy coming into the local yard - This was it's second project, a 1500' long rip-rap project. I'll post some of that job in my other thread.
RPO'd (Rental Purchase Option) this machine. The deal is you can rent it for 3 months and either convert it at the end of the third month or turn it back in. The monthly rental rate is the same as if you were just renting for a month. 90% of the monthly rental goes towards purchase if the rent is paid on time, the % goes down if the rent payments are late. The real kicker is, if you decide to convert to a purchase at the end of the third month, you don't have to pay the third month. In other words you get a free month if you buy it. Financing was very reasonable at 4.3%, which I thought was a decent rate for used equipment. I basically bought this 2 year old machine with 1800 hours for 2/3 the price of a new one. A lot of thought and business planning went into this purchasing decision. What we'll have in the machine I can put it on Machinery Trader and move it quick if need be.
Nice machine, were you set on a cat machine or were you looking at other brands as well? what persuaded you to the cat?
Thanks HItachi225 and Welcome to the Forums! :drinkup In a nutshell, the relationship I have with my dealer. We have all the major brands represented in our market but I have been all Cat since moving into the heavier side of the construction business. I have a great relationship with my salesman, parts counter, product support rep and the rental store. Everything from my salesman helping me find borrow pits to the PSR finding used parts to calling the rental store at 11 AM and having a machine their at 3 PM because you had a machine go down and had to get a job done. They go out of their way to take care of us. I have had good service out of my Cat equipment and good product support. Our area is dominated by Cat with Komatsu taking second place. Deere is not represented by a large dealer nor is Kobelco or Case. Our region gets some of the best pricing in the Country from Cat corporate as my salesman explained to me. For example, back when I was buying machines new back when the economy was booming, I could buy a tractor new for less than nearly new ones listed on machinery trader. It's been a good business relationship so far.
Congrats on the new purchase, Good time to be buying. I am getting ready to do the same for 2014. Mechanical or Hydraulic thumb? 42" or 48" bucket? Regards, CD
Thanks CD. It has a 42" bucket a Cat manual thumb. They have redesigned the stiff arm on the thumb and it's a breeze to put it up or down. There are ears on the stiff arm that set into notches on the plate on the stick to line the pin up. It can be a one man job now to put it up or down, although it's much easier with 2 people. It is a good time to buy. We took advantage of the bonus depreciation that is ending this year.
Good little machine you have there CM. Works good in close quarters, no tail to wack things with. Later Bob
Congratulations CM, I was thinking along the same lines but with a 328DL CR. I don't need the advantage of accelerated depreciation this year, but really want to get a pre-tier IV machine. I may pull the trigger after the New Year.
I don't know how much rock you have down there but none the less, all the clearing and demo you do, it will be really helpful. I know out of the 3 large hoes, the two with thumbs get used more and are the preferred machines. I feel the 42" bucket is perfect for that size machine. You probably weigh in at 52k or so.. maybe a little more. I just got back some numbers from my CPA that I had requested and even though I bought the Volvo Dump truck I could still by a little more. Maybe a mini or something. I have been so conservative I almost prefer just to stroke the check in April and keep myself out of trouble. I have put the call in for another 210 and a 3.5cy wheel loader for March. I will do the same and take them on a RPO. If the year goes well then I will buy them. My dealer does it a little different, He will give me up to 6 months and we negotiate the percentage he keeps. Last time it was z 0% back in 2009. I am sure he will be wanting at least 10% this go around. Used equipment is really going up in price and buying now or in the next few months is probably a good idea. You must have some work line up for that hoe to have pulled the trigger. Regards, CD
Congrats on the new hoe, I've spent a lot of time in both the 321 and 328 and the 321 is by far my favorite. It's quite fast for a 20 ton class machine, I liked everything about it other than the size of the cab, I'm 6'6" so it's a bit tight. I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with it. Ours have 4-5,000 hours on them and they are just fine. Only downfall I found as far as performance was concerned, when working on 2:1 slopes, swinging uphill and down gets sketchy.
Thanks Bob and Oxbow. CD we do have a fair amount of rock down here, varies from limestone, slate and sandstone with some iron ore in areas. We have so many different types of soil and rock in a rather small geographic area being at the tail end of the Appalachians and the beginning of the coastal plains. 30 miles south and the soil becomes a sandy clay, 30 miles north and it's limestone ledge. That's why I went with the 42" bucket. I too think it's a perfect size bucket for the machine. Good breakout force and I think it's 1.3 CY capacity which with side cutters makes truck loading fairly fast. Most of the storm sewer we lay is less than 36" so a 42 with side cutters makes a tight trench but still able to only pull one bucket width. I thought 90% of the rental going towards purchase was equitable. I purchased this through the Rental Store so the RPO was different than going through the dealer side, they are under one roof but two different in-house entities. If the dealer side would have had a 320DL or 321, I could have rented it for 6 months, however it would have been 80% of the rental and no "free" month at the end. We haven't purchased anything this year other than my F350 and since it's been a fairly good year, the bonus depreciation will be helpful. The private commercial market is seeing an upswing in my area. I have bid 3 jobs in the last 2 weeks and finishing up #4 today. Got a larger Family Dollar site that I am working on now. The subsoil is pure crap, undercut the building pad (8000 SF) 5', all unit priced change order. The hoe is in the chert pit loading trucks with engineered fill. We haven't started on the parking lot, just demo'd the buildings and it's the same wet expansive clay 3' down. Water poured into the holes when we removed the old footers. Should be a good job. Bigshow are those C or D models? I had an '05 321CLCR that I sold in '07 when the downturn started. The C model cab was a bit tight but still manageable. The D model cab is bigger, the best I can tell is they added space to the rear of the cab which gives more leg room. I am 6'2" and find it comfortable. Having owned a C model before, it made the purchase easier as I was familiar with the size and operation. The only downfall I have is having to hire out moves. I only have a 54K tag. I have considered sending it back to Better Built and have an air lift third axle put on and new plates. Better Built trailers is about an 1.5 hours away. CD I know you move your same sized hoes on triple axle tags. Do you have an air lift third axle or all of them fixed?
Nice looking machine CM. Being that you have already owned one I don't have to tell you how nice it is to have a machine in that weight class in a zero tail swing. I see yours doesn't have pluming for a hammer. Is that something you will get add later or do you find that you don't realy need to run a hammer?
D models, one of our 328's has a standard cab on it. It's the first machine I have ever run that I didn't need to have the seat shoved all the way back.
Buckfever, I don't normally run across the need for a hammer. If I do, I prefer to rent them as they are maintenance headaches and I don't use one often enough (haven't rented one in two years) to justify the expense. My C model did have a hyd. thumb, which was nice but it's heavy and expensive. I find a manual thumb does just fine. Bigshow, the D model cabs are a major improvement over the C's in CR machines.
Nice choice on the 321. I bought a CAT 320DLRR (used through my dealer) for the same reasons in August. Really like the reduced radius. Our SC CAT dealer sounds like yours. No other dealer comes close here. I have an Eager Beaver 25XPT tri-axle trailer (no lift), bought new 13 years ago. Still serves the purpose for our smaller hoes/pavers/etc. Move our CAT 330D on the Eager Beaver 55t lowboy (with OSOW permit).
Drummer do you have an issue with tire scrub in tight turns with the triple axle tag? Do you pull it with a tandem or tri-axle?
We do get 'some' tire scrub but not to be described as being eaten away. My tire wear on the 25XPT is acceptable for the amount of use we put these trailers through. I have a 20XPT also. We pull the trailers with tri-axle trucks (3rd axle is a lift). Eager Beaver did not offer the lift axle option when I purchased the 25XPT (or I didn't know they did). Either way, I have been very satisfied with the life span of their products. We have replaced the brakes/drums once since purchase. Pintle replaced twice (just for safety's sake). We move the 320's, D5's, loaders, pavers, multiple rollers, really anything. I do have the aluminum ramp extensions for the low profile load. They actually come in very handy in the Shop for servicing. "When" I replace this trailer in some future year TBD, it will be with another Eager Beaver and probably w/lift axle (but I will do some homework then).
The second project I did with the machine. A 1500', 4K ton rip-rap project. Had to muck and shape the ditch, place fabric and then rip-rap 1.5' deep. I did this project by myself, as I had time in between the two end dumps bringing me stone.
Thanks for the info Drummer. I don't do much residential work where you find yourself turning in cup-de-sacs or other tight places, the commercial projects we usually work on have easy access. Currently I can get the machine moved by the Rental Store for $150 a move around our working area, which is cheap IMO.
Congrads! I hope it serves you well!
Thanks digger! I plan on keeping this one for a while as I get attached to machines and don't like change - unless it's a Bobcat but that's another story. My 953C turned 4K on the clock a few months ago and wouldn't trade it for a new D model. The D5G turned 4K on the clock a few months ago as well. Well maintained paid for machines make you money, something I know you know well. :thumbsup The short term plan is to pay for this in less than the 4 year finance period.
All great news. Let's hope it holds out for good. The new Cat is a beauty. Looks very well taken care of, like most of the Cat rentals. Good to know the cab has more room too. Can't imagine any job it wouldn't perfect on, just like the Link Belt spin ace. Great price you have on transport too. I'd never buy a lowboy at that special rate you are getting.....and hat's off to those moving 50,000lb + machines with a dump truck. I couldn't imagine that regardless of axle count.
CD, Congrats on the new excavator, it will serve you well. Myself, I prefer the 200 class over the 160. I always like "bigger" anytime and with your rental store moving the machine for $150 - hauling is not even an issue for you. In my area a move would cost 250-$350 min. I have my own lowboy and tractor for that reason and the convenience of being able to do it the second I decide to.
Thanks Fastdirt. I hope what we are seeing now just holds it's course. I don't want to get back to the rush like it was during the boom. Steady workload's will get our pricing back to where it needs without it going crazy. May 2014 be a better year than 2013 for everyone!:drinkup Thanks JB. If I could have found a 315 I might have gone with it, having owned 2 prior. I like that size machine and I can move it easier. However the size of a 200 class hoe for what we do fits better. Most jobs require removing poor soil and importing structural fill so the large machine is naturally better at loading trucks. I can stomach the mobilization charges since we don't move the machine that much - much being it stays in one place for more than a week at a time, most of the time it stays there a couple weeks at a time. Mobilization is included in each bid and it usually covers the cost and sometimes it's a profit center, albeit small but still a profit center. Right now the machine is in a chert/dirt pit loading trucks for the project we are currently on. Another 300 yards loaded out and it will come back to the project to lay storm sewer, that's when the rain stops.
CM, My triple is on fixed axles. I don't really have a problem with tire scrub but I used to have a major problem with my front axle always locking up when braking unloaded. We didn't have the trailer perfectly flat and it is much better with my new set up. Our moves around here are, at the most, 40 miles. So, I am in a different situation than most. It is pretty rural and our highway is a State Highway. I am not really comfortable moving our big stuff long distances behind a dump truck. Just for that reason I would like to have a 160 class hoe to take care of that liability. moving iron around here is expensive, usually $350-400 for an up and back 80 miles loop. At first I was scared shiftless, being the turn off the highway onto the frontage road to our yard is a crappy, uphill almost U-turn sort of deal.. off camber. Then the turn into the yard is similar but downhill. I usually move stuff on Saturday morning or if it is during the week, middle of the day when there is less traffic. Other people only care about themselves and it is real bad up here with all the rich folk feeling entitled. They all forget what it takes to build their mansion. We keep up a couple of seed bags on the trailer with state sand mix, which is 3/8 pea gravel mixed with granular mag chloride. This really helps in the winter and lot's of times we will run a chain through the lifting eye on the bucket of the hoe and then run it through the two front D-rings on the trailer, then pull ourselves up on the trailer. It all kinda suck this time of year but it is nice to be working. Regards, CD