Hey guys I've been fighting ac gremlins in my skid steer loader. 2005 ASV RC 100 Blows ice cold then after running for an hour or so the clutch kicks off and will not kick back on. Tested the voltage to the compressor and i got nothing. Fuses are good the condenser and fans are mounted on the roof and condenser is clean and fans are running full force. The other day it did this and i stopped got out the meter and tested while it was still running. No power to the compressor or clutch. I unplugged the Binary Switch from the evaporator or dryer as they call it on the parts diagram. When i unplugged it it has 2 ports or pins. Tested one pin and no power " that must be going to the clutch, tested the other pin and had 12v. I plugged it back in and bam the clutch kicked on and was working great. Today it quit after about an hour of operation and i sweat my butt off in that thing. I stopped and unplugged the switch and plugged it back in and the clutch kicked on for about 30sec then went off. I poured cold water on the canister or dryer and it kicked back on for a bit the n went out. I think the switch is good.... could the dryer be getting too hot and causing the switch to cut off the compressor ???? The exhaust side of the turbo come out within 8 to 10 inches of the canister. If so any ideas on keeping the heat off the dryer ? OR..... i checked the freon also and it was quite a bit low, could it be that there is just not enough freon in it and thats the cause ? Seems to me that even with the freon being low its blowing ice cold in the morning then after it gets hot it quits thus making me think its heat related but i don't know squat about ac stuff.
do you have any way of checking the pressures in your system?
If the freon is low, below the operating range in the system, the compressor won't kick in. I would start with the simplest solution and go from there.
Most auto AC systems I've worked on don't have temperature sensors in the system except for the temperature control sensor at the evaporator. What they do have is pressure sensors (switches) for excessively low or excessively high system pressure. Only way to know what your system is doing is put some gauges on it.
I would suspect low freon. It works until all the freon that is there is evacuated which then trips the low pressure switch, kicking out the compressor. Once the compressor kicks out, the freon accumulates again allowing it to cycle until the gas is gone again. Pretty common indicator of low gas.
i was kinda thinking the same. Low freon causing it. But man i felt the canister or dryer when the compressor kicked off and it was burning hot. Probably cause the exhaust is 8" from it. Poor design if you ask me. Think i could wrap the turbo and down pipe with heat wrap and put some heat reflective tape on the dryer ? __________
You could do dang near anything, but why would you when you know the freon is low? Find the horses first, then look for zebras. BTW, the high pressure components in an A/C system normally get hot enough to burn you on their own.
8" is plenty of room if there's moving air in between. It could be cutting out on high pressure too, I'd guess it would cut out sooner than 1 hour if it was low pressure, just a guess though, I know refrigeration, but not automotive. If you can find and identify the pressure switches, you can see if they open up (electrically speaking) when the AC shuts off. An electrical schematic/diagram would be helpful but not necessary.
On an AC system, whether an accumulator system or a filter/dryer system, the lines at the accumulator or filter/dryer will be warm/hot, that's normal. The line doesn't get cold until the refrigerant passes through the orifice tube on an accumulator system or the expansion valve on a filter/dryer system. The fact that the exhaust lines and turbo are in the vicinity of the accumulator (or filter/dryer) matters little when the refrigerant gets to the orifice tube (or expansion valve).
I bought a new lo pressure gauge and a can of 134-a. I checked the pressure while the clutch was engages and it was @ 40psi and in the green. The clutch kicked off and it jumped to 80 or 90 then cycled on. It stayed running for a while clutch engaged and the dryer started to cool down but not ice cold. So i worked about an hour then noticed it not blowing cold air anymore. Condenser fans running full force and no clutch engagement. Checked the freon and it was spot on 40psi when the clutch would engage. The clutch engages now every 20 to 40 sec and runs for about 5 to 10 sec then clicks back off. A few times it would click on and off very quickly on off on off on off and stay off for 30 or 40 sec then click on for no more that 20 or 30 sec. Dryer is fairly warm to hot but not too hot to keep your hand on. Im stumped...... Would it be the switch ????? Im thinking about wiring it up to just keep the compressor running all the time if it won't hurt anything. Because when the compressor clicks on it blows nice cold air and its in the upper 90s here and I'm root raking and stacking debris on a fire and boy is it hot. __________________
With out hooking up manifold gauges you are just shooting into the dark. Getting the proper gauges on it will answer all the questions you have and keep you from getting hurt . Adding freon may be the solution if the low pressure switch is operating correctly. Adding freon if high pressure is kicking the switch out likely would not happen and be dangerous if it takes the freon. Sometimes high and low pressure switch is one in the same. Restricted air flow across condenser could create high head pressure as ambient temperature increases mid day.
You must have both gauges. If you did what was "high" side reading.
Agree with partsandservice. But you've expressed that you're in a bind and probably will be hitting it hard tomorrow. With that said, I can only add this, I can't help much as I know nothing about the system on an ASV RC 100, but if you're maintaining 40 psi (+/-) on the low side when it's compressing, then jump to 80 (+/-) when not compressing, sounds like the refrigerant is at proper level. There's no way I can tell you what to try as I don't know the system, but since the refrigerant charge looks good, you could pull the plug connector at the receiver/dryer (low pressure cutout switch) and put a jumper wire in the plug. That way you take the low pressure (low charge) switch out of the operation. If it continues to operate, likely a faulty low pressure switch.
where are you in Florida? i have manifold gauges if you can bring it by my place we can hook them up and see what it is doing i also have a sniffer so if its low there is a leak and with that we pinpoint maybe where the leak is. if you can check the low side what pressure do you have in the a/c system when the asv is off? id like to know its strong indicator if there is leak
agrees with willie use a jumper on the pressure switch plug sounds like it could be having issues. usually when the clutch cycles on off excessively its low pressure usually but without knowing what your system pressure is supposed to be it is hard to say , usually you need to the pressure on the low side and high side ,most cheap gauges that come with refrigerent cans only test the low side.
Right, the pressure valve on the evap side does have a low limit and there is usually another switch for high limit if the pressure is too high. If you have the can with a gauge, you could add a small amount, one second shot and observe how it performs as far as cycling. You really want a combo gauge that shows high and low at the same time but you can try adding just a bit, most of the offroad systems are tiny and easy to overfill
Simplest solution, don't work more than and hour each day!
Thanks i really appreciate it. Im near Tallahassee. Did some mulching in the forrest today and was better off with the windows open lol minus the red bugs i probably got
This time of year, those red bugs are off the chain prolific in the deep south! :yup
I have a binary switch on the dryer, reads both high and low press, at least on the parts diagram it calls it a binary switch and i haven't been able to find any other, so I'm guessing this one switch dose both high and low.
I have the same year model and sent it to the dealer for a similar issue. After much $$$$$$ I had an ole friend whos an electrical brainyackkkkk look at it and it was a relay in the main panel that kept kicking out. This was discovered by checking each relay when the system went out. It took several hours but no more issues...
Another method I've seen on some small machines is the sight glass on the outbound side of the condensor (radiator side) system filled until the bubbles are almost gone from the stream.
there is probably a freeze switch somewhere near the evaporator that can shut you down. Why not just get it to an ac guy who can diagnose and repair it safely? Remember,its illegal to release r12 or r134a to the atmosphere intentionally. ....and for the last time, ITS NOT FREON!!!!!!
Friend who worked around JPL during the day got a chuckle, yes its now illegal to release R-12. What's not well known is that Freon 12 (r12) was an excellent solvent and cleaner and lubricant as well as a durable refrigeration product. JPL needed tens of thousands of gallons to flush the shuttle fuel/oxygen supply system of nearly a million gallons of O2 alone. It was the only oxygen safe solvent and everyone used a lot of it. Folks worried about shaving cream cans when industry had thousand gallon chilled tanks to dip circuit boards in, loosing hundreds of gallons a day to make sure things were clean. Home/consumer use was the smallest of smallest fractions. Some say it was a dupont ploy, banning a single very cheap product in order to promote several very expensive ones. A tank of R134 costs me $130 for 30 pounds where Freon 12 was about $15 in bulk. 50 cents a pound versus $43.
Everyone knows it's not Freon. Freon is a DuPont trademark name for dichlorodifluoromethane. And it is in violation of federal law (40CFR Part 82 Subpart F) to work on any Type l, ll, lll, or Universal system unless you hold a RTRC certificate or are under the direct supervision of someone who does. The maximum possible fine is $ 32,500 per incident per day. With a $10,000. bounty , but you really have to know if its outside of the " de minimus" clause. So why can almost anyone buy refrigerants and use them? Because they can. Sales are not very restricted. What is little known of, is the "bounty". Yep, you can be flipped by your buddy for ten large. If you can use $10,000.00 here is the form to fill out. http://www2.epa.gov/enforcement/report-environmental-violations
His system is new enough it should use R134a. The only time you need a certificate is to actually purchase R12. The only time it becomes an issue is if you actually "vent" the refrigerant into the atmosphere. BUT- If these machines use R12, I am happy to help you with a conversion to R152a (canned air - yes the air for cleaning computers). It acts very very similar to R12 and in fact is still compatible with the oils.
Did you look to see if the Evaporator was freezing up? Make sure your condensation hose is leaking water the whole time and keeping the condenser drained off. Really need to see what the high side pressure is. You should have plenty of charge in the machine if it was reading 40 psi on the low side.
You need a certificate when you open any system to the atmosphere. Nice white paper on R152a: http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2008/manhoekim.pdf
Check and see if your evaporator (the cooling coil) is clogged up or if there is anything in the duct system that would impede the flow of air through the evaporator. It is easy to blame it on the "freon" being low and just putting more in but sometimes the problem is deeper than that. I know this from experience. I have a background in refrigeration and air conditioning, and it still took me a while to figure this one out. I bought a new to me 2007 NH L190 that was exhibiting the same symptoms as the OP's skid. I told the dealer about this, they checked it out and said it was ok but they put in a can of R-134 anyway. I cranked it up and it blew cold air. A few weeks later I was grubbing mesquite in a field in Texas in 100-105 degree heat and man was it hot in that cab. When I got the machine home I removed the cover to the evaporator coil and found 1/2" of dirt and other crud caked up on the intake face of the evaporator. Obviously there was dirt caked in between the fins also. I went to the air conditioning supply store and bought some foamy stuff that is supposed to clean out the coil. After carefully scraping the crud off of the face of the coil, I used the cleaner several times along with water and compressed air and finally got some air flowing through the coil. That seemed to fix the problem however I don't think the evaporator is as clean as it could be. I think the best way to clean one of these evaporator coils is to use a pressure washer to clean it. Watch out though, the pressure washer has plenty of force to close the delicate fins of the coil. If you close those fins, you got more trouble than just a dirty coil (think coil replacement). Fortunately for me the cooling coil on my L190 is situated such that I can spray it clean without taking it loose from the rest of the air conditioning system. If you can't clean yours without opening the refrigeration system (releasing the refrigerant), it should be done by a professional with all of the required resources. What I figured out with my machine is that the only air that gets filtered is air that is drawn in from outside through the outside air filter. My machine does not have a pressurized cab, so a lot of dusty air creeps in through the cracks around my door and other places in the cab. This dirt winds up in the moist evaporator where it eventually clogs up the system and must be cleaned out. I will make cleaning out the evaporator coil on my skid a normal maintenance item to be done every hundred hours (or sooner if operating in especially dust conditions). Good luck, I hope you are able to solve you problem as easily as I was. Tim
I can vouch for that tmc_31, seen it many times on dirt equipment. The fact that when you're using AC, the evaporator is cold and condenses moisture (humidity) on the coils, then add the dust of jobsite environment, dust particles mix with the water on the coil. Over time this (mud) builds up and will entirely block air flow through the evap.