Been reading this forum and watching dozer vids like crazy for days now...for hours at a time. I will continue to do so moving forward. Great info. I have a small bar in Houston with a small asphalt parking area and a large grassy area that's mostly flat but too bumpy for cars. I've been getting busy lately and need more parking because vehicles are getting stuck in certain spots. It rains too often and the grassy area isn't compacted. I got quotes and just couldn't afford it. ointhead I have to do this myself due to finances. I have operated skids, tractors and such but never a dozer. I have a customer & experienced uncle who will operate the dozer for free if I rent one. My uncle lives about 4 hours away & it keeps raining during the time he's off work to come and do it. It's a little less than an acre of grassy land. I used a loader (needed a dozer) to spread about 30 loads of dirt and the grade is all wrong and not compacted. When I got quotes they said they'd level, compact, spread the gravel and compact the gravel. This is what I want to do. I'm going to install 4" of gravel on it for now and come back and put another 4" later. I'm trying to do as much as I can with what I have to work with. My uncle said rent a dozer for him so I was going to get a Case 550 or similar from Aztec and a sheepfoot roller (idk what size). I'm buying the gravel directly from the yard, Southern Crushed Concrete, with delivery. It's raining now. If it's not too sloppy, and he's off work, he'll come do it and I'm fine. If not, I have to utilize my customer, myself or just postpone it all. I have a huge Super Bowl Party coming and they're planning to tailgate in that area but it's too muddy and they're worried. I am as well so I'm trying to get something done. If you guys can offer advice I'd sure take it. And appreciate it. I WANT to jump on that dozer and scrape, grade and compact it myself since the area is relatively small figuring I could 'fix' the mess ups. So that's why I'm asking for your advice and expertise. Thanks.
If you are dealing with mud, the water has to go! With enough elevation, you can dig trenches, and install drain pipe with catch drains. Slope away from the drains. You haven't said what your soil is. If fine grained, add stone, not gravel. Here, we get 1-3/4" drainage stone cheap. Machines &autos on this will press it down into mud to make a hard surface. Have a pile to fill any holes that develop. It'll take a few rounds of stone until wet loose mud is controlled. Then If you want, gravel can cover it. You aren't talking about a little job. It'll take days to install drains, and grade. Then lots of trucking, spreading, compacting will take more days. You need excavator, dump truck, dozer, and good grade measuring equipment. Professionals will be efficient. A do it yourselfer will turn it into a cluster puck.
If it was me I would forget the sheepsfoot and get a smooth drum. Sheepsfoot is nice for dirt but a smooth drum is better for stone and since you desire parking lot smoothness that will help. Get in the dozer and do it. Go by the seat of your pants. My big concern though is drainage. You say when it rains it gets muddy. So is the area holding water? Are you going to make it completely flat? Will it hold more water than? Where will the water go? To make a gravel parking lot hold up well, it's needs to drain quickly and efficiently. Anywhere it holds water will turn to mud again quickly. Where cars turn routinely is where the holes will start. Once they start, we all know everyone will just continue to drive through them and make them bigger and bigger. This is where knowledge and experience is your best friend Sure you can save some money by doing it yourself, but will it just end up costing you more money because it wasn't built right and requires a lot of maintenance ?
Houston is FLAT, gets heavy rain and has drainage problems to start. You might have to bring in a civil engineer to design and STAMP your drawing to include a retention pond and interface in the municipal storm water system. At about 210' per side drainage slope into a retention pond won't be big deal, but you will need a drainage system BEFORE the stones go down and compaction starts. I don't think you will have time. Pray for dry weather. Howard
Excavators, engineers and ponds, really? It's a parking lot. First off you will need some slope. Remove whatever material is needed to make the water drain. Next scrape off any muck and vegetation. Lay down some fabric if needed. Place your material in shallow lifts for better compaction. I agree with the smooth drum roller over a sheepsfoot but rubber tire has given me the best results. A skid steer or truck will also work. Drainage and proper fill material will be your two biggest factors for success. Git-r-done!
Talked with some buddies who build homes and will meet at least one later today. They said I have to handle the water and to go ahead and do the call before you dig now. I can't define the soil exactly until later today but it seems loamy, maybe some clay down low. Working on getting someone over for a drainage system. I dread dealing with the City. There's a 'ditch' running the length of the property to the street. The lot doesn't hold water, IMO, the puddling forms from areas not compacted/graded and being constantly driven over. But I could be wrong. The main target area for grading is about 70' wide and 360' long sloped to the fence and ditch. I posted a couple of videos on Youtube for advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iigymdGCU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wv1ZLJKjq0
Also, I was going to put down crushed concrete and not gravel.
I have some questions, 1) I need dimension of the area you want to make a parking lot, long and wide. 2) Is the area flat as a table top or does it slope one or the other, if so, about how much. To find out, drive a 3' stake in each corner and pull a mason line TIGHT between two stakes at 12" above the existing grade at each stake and mark that point, using a line level, level the string from the highest point, what is the difference. 3) How thick is the surface layer that gets muddy. Now we will have the area, the volume of stripping and the depth of material needed to create a surface that drains and the quantity of material required. I suggest using Asphalt Millings, the we give you a surface that will not turn to mud when it rains and will look almost paved after compacting. Any questions, call me 201-362-6004 cell Bob
Make sure your base is hard and draining before you spread any stone. If it's not, your stone can turn to mush.
If that crushed concrete was made from concrete with reinforcing wire in it you may have a real problem with pieces of wire in it. I was on a interstate highway job and reclaimed concrete was used for sub-base. The trucks had 21 flat tires in just one week.
Any pictures of the area? Seems to me, some over thought maybe be going on, but without seeing what you're working with it's hard to tell. Simple is usually the best option but there are times simple needs to be as complicated as some have mentioned. As far as needing a dozer, it may or may not be the best bet, just depends on what is happening. From what you're writing it seems your just trying to make a simple drive/parking area that won't be full of mud and bumps? I would "think" from what you've described, a decent base with your crushed concrete over the top would be fine, but then again without seeing the area it's hard to tell. Any of your patrons have/run machinery, sometimes the local bar guy can be a big help? How hard is the ground now, has it been driven/parked on a lot, are folks just getting stuck on the small humps during wet season or does it hold muck?
Wow. Found a local dozer owner (and other heavy equipment) and operator...wallah...problem solved. He's gonna do it for the normal prices I've found on this site and elsewhere. He's going to grade and put a slope on it for drainage to the ditch and I can handle that later. I don't need any city permits or anything because the 'disturbed area' is less than what's required. Now I have to find the right material. I was initially going with crushed concrete but after Bob suggested asphalt millings I researched it and wanted to use that. My dozer guy called his dump truck people and they quoted $30/ton of asphalt millings delivered. Ouch, not what I read on the internet. Higher than crushed concrete. I'm currently about to make my own calls to get a price here in Houston. If I can't get something reasonable I may have to choose a different material. Thanks all for your input!!!!!
Asphalt millings will be more than crushed concrete, but worth it for a nice surface. For the base, I'd go with crushed concrete if that's what's cheapest there, bigger size if you can get it for the base, you will be covering it eventually. I've never had a problem with steel in recycled concrete, I bet the road project didn't have a good enough separator to get the steel out, like a stationary outfit would. But I've only bought the stuff a couple times... Anybody else get wire in crushed concrete?
That is interesting, in New Jersey Tilcon sells millings for $1.80 per Ton at the quarry, trucking is about $6.00 per ton, so $7.80, and we have them coming out our ears. RCA will work just as good, just compact it with a smooth drum vibratory roller and add a little water to aid compaction, around 3 to 5%, it will be like "concrete". RCA here in The Peoples Republic of New Jersey is $6.50 per ton at Tilcon, trucking is the same, $12.50 ton. Good Luck, Bob
Here in VT we buy bank run gravel at $3.00 per yard (2900 LBS, 1.45 ton) Crushed stone calcium carbonate is $6.00-$8.00 per ton. My personal favorite product is 3/4" screened river stone. I like the look as top dressing. One must be careful with screened round stone it isn't too thick. It's loose under foot if too thick. If they offer crushed concrete screened to 2" that'll do, if spread to a final grade. Then top dress with something that packs well.
if the concrete recycler has the proper equipment and magnets the steel should not be a problem you make have a few pieces that (floats) to the top after spreading but they should only no bigger than a pencil.
Steel in crushed concrete here isn't an issue at all. These companies around here all want to do business with the state of Texas, and the state has requirements, so apparently that's why our prices are higher and better quality. Apparently. So the contractor is scheduled for 6:30am tomorrow morning and he's also coordinating the crushed concrete delivery with trucking service. He's going to do the scraping, grading with slope for runoff and spreading. He recommended I break the install of crushed concrete into two installments which I was going to do anyway. He's going to grade to 2% slope and compact the entire property and the part not rocked will be partitioned and cordoned off until I'm ready. After this is done I will immediately look into pipe drainage and city tie in, if needed. What's required I'll have done myself. Prices are (for location reference and noob researchers who read all of your posts): $1500 to dozer owner/operator and he will do what I need done and continue to do more up unto 10 hours total. (At 10 hours for that amount it equates to $150/ h)It's $1000-$1200 with add-on costs here to rent a big dozer, $550 for the dozer but delivery both ways is hell plus insurance and tax. I have a Chevy 2500 avail with the trailer brakes installed but my uncle advised against it even before I found the dozer operator. He'll also bring a small compactor. I think I'll pickup the good one for good measure although with all the last minute preps I have to see if Aztec Rental will be feasible. Paying $400 a load of crushed concrete by standard dump truck with 15 cubic yards, about 20 tons, delivered. The crushed concrete company requested cash which as a former general conctractor I felt was a red flag but you can guarantee I'll mete that out appropriately. Really wish I could have done the recycled asphalt/asphalt millings but I couldn't as for now. Maybe after phase 2 that will be phase 3. I will update you guys later. SOME OF YOU POSTERS/CONTRIBUTORS WHO ARE IN THESE FORUMS SHOULD REALIZE THIS: You answer repetitive questions. You are acknowledged. You are respected. You are helpful. You spend time for others vs yourself. You do what is not required. ...................THANKS AND THANKS AGAIN I haven't gotten anything done yet but I can assure you that because of reading the threads, getting SPECIFIC feedback as it relates to my project, I will sleep good tonight. You can bet I'll jump on that guys dozer when he breaks to at least go from zero to one hour while he eats. I LOVE heavy equipment!
our crusher run here is about 7.00 per ton makes a nice compact topping. Sherriod; well put, I'll 2nd it.
Don't disappear we want finished pictures and how it worked out.!!!
Got started about 10 minutes ago. I haven't been this happy since I got a new ice machine at the bar! Pics coming!
w
......we're still waiting for Our Super Bowl invitation. ...... Ps You're Supplying the refreshments right ?
This isn't going well. The grading is rough as before and it seems he's using rocks to compensate for it. Plus I'm 2 loads short, no one has come back. The coverage isnt near what the projection based on material. Ruts. Humps. And I did most of the compacting myself. May not walk tomorrow from the groin pain.
Tough call. I've had customers upset with me half way through a project but super happy with the end result. A good contractor knows how to complete a project properly. OTOH there are a lot of hacks out there so be careful. Just because you own a piece of equipment doesn't make you a good contractor.
That's cheap. We can't even get millings here anymore unless it's a private milling job. All the millings from the local and state government jobs go back to the plant and the contractor gives a credit back to the government for the tonnage. We used to be able to get all we wanted until they caught on to the value of the millings. #57 crushed limestone is over $11 a ton at the quarry and trucking varies but is in the $5-7 a ton range depending on location. A 25 ton load (legal here on secondary roads in a tri-axle) will run $400-600 depending on where it's going.
I pay $9-$10 per yard for class 5 gravel here. It should be standard but I know who has the good stuff, but some have junk. A good class 5, properly compacted, will carry a forklift the next day. I've also bought modified 5 (more clay) with great results. Rock and stone is fine if you have drainage but with nearly flat ground, go with a gravel/clay mix to shed the water so it doesn't pool and cause issues. my $0.02
There are 6 limestone quarries within 75 miles of me, with the closest being 15 miles. In the last few years, they've started a program where they put fine ground limestone into the scrubbers at the power plants and run the smoke through it. The limestone, (calcium carbonate) absorbs the sulfur out of the coal smoke and becomes gypsum, (calcium sulfate). It then goes to a plant beside one of the power plants where it is made into drywall. Before this, limestone was $6-14 picked up at the quarry, now, it is $28-36!!!!
5 miles from home, in my youth, White Pigment Corporation made pigments, etc. from calcium carbonate. A waste product was 6" blasted rock. All septic systems, back fill, and mostly swamp fill projects were done with this free product. Roads rarely needed drainage structures. two feet of this stuff dumped on top of mud made a base for any driveway. Top this with bank run gravel, and York rake the loose potatoes to the edge, you got a fine road. One day a younger quarry owner from 100 miles away made an offer. "I'll take over, pay your salary for life, and turn a profit." The owner agreed. The new boss ran both facilities using a helicopter to commute. Now excavators from 50 miles away haul constantly. All size products come from there. At $6-8 per ton they show a handsome profit. The material is processed 20 miles away, from which a constant flow of trains haul limestone slurry, a wet mess that looks like very thin drywall joint compound. Here, the scarce product is topsoil. All manner of crap is sold as "top soil". One local mixes sand with a little bit of cow manure, and sells it at $16 a yard as top soil. It does grow grass.
I hope you aint wrote any checks /
From the pics it's hard to tell the quality of the work especially since it's the "during" phase. If you estimated the amount of material without a waste factor that will be where you're off. On a job like this I would estimate a 15-20% waste factor, which means it will take 15-20% more material after you've calculated the LxWxD in a perfect world.
Compaction can be a big factor. 10%-30% depending on the material and what percent of compaction.