just wanted to start a post to help get some opinions on what oil to use for a break in for a 188 I’m in the process of rebuilding. I would guess a good conventional 15/40 diesel oil but thought I’d ask for some opinions as I have never broke a fresh diesel in before. Also how should I do the initial break in to get the best results. Engine is a case 188d in an old 580ck. ( late 60s from best I can tell) has the 4spd gearbox and a shuttle transmission. Installing a out of frame rebuild kit so all new liners, pistons, rings , bearings ect. Any tips and opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.
My opinion on oil would be to run what you plan on using in the future. Looking at the way you are doing this job, very meticulous about cleaning things, I might suggest changing oil and filter after about one third to half the normal recommended number of hours and cut open the oil filter just to see what is in there. As for break-in procedure it will be interesting to hear what others suggest but for myself this is a rough idea of what I might do. Once it is all together and you fire it up the first time run it at a little over low idle while checking oil pressure and checking for leaks. If everything seems good and no strange noises put it under a medium work load of some kind while watching oil pressure and coolant temp. Vary load and rpms while doing this. It's been awhile since I worked on a small Case like this but would guess that a retorque of the head bolts and resetting of valves would be a good idea after a couple hours medium to light work. I always preferred to retorque heads by going through the original torque sequence and back off each bolt/nut then maybe squirt a little oil under nut or bolt head and retorque. Once that is done go through the valves and set them to spec's. The one thing I would NOT suggest would be to start it and set at one speed and let it run with no load! I'm sure others will join in and make suggestions and I have no problem if they don't agree with my off the top of head thoughts.
Agreed. Use the oil you would use in the tractor under normal circumstances. Give it a few hours of run time under varied conditions and watch for leaks and anything unusual. Then put her to work. It's a backhoe, so maybe do some digging. Start at 50% throttle and work your way up. I don't know about a "break in", but the rings and valves will definitely seat once the engine warms up and does some real work. You'll notice a small boost in power associated with the higher compression from the seated rings and valves. If it was smoking at all, it should clear up quickly.
So, minor overhaul or major? You doing Cam and followers, anything in the gearcase? If not, I agree with everything stated above. Personally, I'm a bit of an animal when it comes to first fires. Probably from all the gas jobs. My grandfather taught me to fire it up and break it in the way you'd expect it to run. So, for me, WFO fully loaded. As soon as I got oil pressure, throttle gets buried and I'm riding around in 5th gear foot on the brake to jack the boost. If she's gonna get hurt, it's gonna be then and there . Of course that's in a truck, for a backhoe, I'd curl the bucket over relief and exercise the arm in and out. That way your hydraulically loading her without burning up your oil. Just my 2cents And I'm a big fan of Delo or Rotella. Whichever is common to your area.
Minor kit I guess it would be technically. But an out of frame kit so has crank bearings and seals. No head work just a good cleaning coming. Engine ran well with the head, just developed a knock that was a destroyed rod bearing. Not just spun but vaporized and gone completely. Cam bearings look fine as do all the lifters and their bores. Was unsure if I needed to do “heat cycles “ as I do with two stoke racing engines. Or just get it warm and vary time load and Rpm. Gradually increasing load to wfo I have read that synthetic oil is a no no for brake in and didn’t know what guys use. I had been running rotella 15/40 before the rod spun. Was unsure if that lead to the failure or if it was just old and wore out to begin with and no oil would have helped and maybe the rotella got me a few extra hrs lol.
Seeing that block on the engine stand brings back bad memories. When I was a young man I was rebuilding a similar engine in a case 1150b. About the time I was setting the cylinder head down on those ridiculously long head studs my coworker decided now would be a good time to slap me with a rag. My fingertip got pulled under those threads 8 the tip of my finger off and it's never been the same since. I guess I'm just trying to say be extra careful protect your fingers they're the only set you get.
So was the first job for the 1150b digging a hole to dispose of the body?
If it were mine it would've. Took almost 30 years to look "that good" I guess that's why I preach safety so much now.
Ouch Yup. Safety first I agree. “ never put your finger where u wouldn’t put ur pecker” lol.
For diesels I've always fired and ran till mid warm. Ran throttle up to high idle at that point oil operating temp and then put as big a load as I could get on it for an hour or more. Put it work after that and changed oil and filters at around 40 hours. Run another 40 and take a sample. In my experience there is always a lot of rebuild junk in the first oil change so I don't worry on the first change. The second load of oil should be clean.
Ok. Thanks all. I will run conventional oil and feel a lil better about the run in or break in process on it now. Glad I asked cause I would have idled it longer and not been so quick to load it up.
I don't know what you used, but lot's of early tractor rebuild parts come from China. The problem is that often those rings don't have a bevel where ring meets liner (taper face in image, second comp ring). So you have a flat on flat that gives too much surface area to seat and sometimes they never do. The taper face provides a small surface area which breaks in quickly. I would use a non-detergent oil to break it in and put it under load right away if you have the type of ring that lacks taper. It helps to hold the rings against a straight edge to determine if it has a taper.
I used a kit made by reliance power parts. Appears to be good quality. Unsure if it’s made in china or not. I will look closer to see if they say the county of manufacture on parts or boxes anywhere. I have not removed the pistons from the sleeves yet so I cannot answer as to what type of rings it came with. They came installed inside the liners “ to protect them in shipping “ it said in some paperwork that came with the kit. Has a short blurb on how important the run in process is. But didn’t give any instructions to how to do it. I have heard of and used special break in oil on gassers and two strokes but again. I have never built a diesel before and was unsure how to get the best results on this engine. I will be removing the pistons and cleaning them well before final assembly. I Want to check the ring gap and staggger as well as remove all the packing oil and re lube with engine oil. As well as install them on the rods lol.
Just looked over the boxes and don’t see a “made in” label on any thing. Googled “reliance power parts” and it appears to be an American company that supply’s good quality parts. Hopefully that’s the case and the rings r the better style. I will look closer when I have them out for final cleaning and oiling before assembly. Thanks to all who replied. Appreciate the input. Really wanna do this engine to the best of my ability and budget as I cannot afford to make a mistake and ruin the engine from it. This site has given me lots of good info and tips that make me feel confident I’m not doing something so wrong that it will cause the engine to be poor or worse blownup again The old backhoe is just for work around the property and will not see heavy daily use or anything. Just some landscape work and general chores. Stump removal and log moving, driveway maintenance ect. As long as it runs decent I will be happy and it will be good enuf to do what I will ask of it. But I also want to do the best job I can afford to do and hope for the strongest , longest running engine I can get with what I have to use. Anyway. Thanks all. Some good run in and oil tips. Thanks
Reliance stuff is pretty good. Probably Mahle rings. But the pistons and liners were likely India or China made. Not much choice. Short of having them custom made, I doubt you can buy all US made parts for that old of an engine.
Yes installing on rods will be a good idea, should be much easier to get it to start with those in there!
My thoughts have always been to not let it idle for extended periods of time right after a rebuild. Diesels are built to work you won't hurt it a bit.
On a new rebuild we bring it up to a high idle ( 1,000 RPM ) . Let it warm to operating temp & then let her rip ! One item we did start using was Lucas oil additive for flat tappet cams . https://lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus
Everywhere I've ever been high idle is wide open throttle with no load.
I'm not letting John borrow the Ford Galaxie 500 . LOL ! Now hand over the key's
I'm thinking what td25c really meant was a "fast idle", yes "high idle" would be running at the governor limited top speed. Like he said about 1,000 rpm, that keeps oil pressure up but does not make things move too fast. And once warmed up and then if there are as the local Cat dealer back in the day would say "no leaks or squeaks" put it to work.
The top ring is chrome I believe, the second ring is a beveled ring. And the oil ring is one piece style. Took a close look when I had them out of the sleeves to see. It’s hard to see but there’s definitely a bevel on the second comp ring.
"fast idle" or about 1,000 RPM is the lowest speed that an engine really smooths out, IMHO, that's what you use for starting a questionable engine or warming up a really cold engine. "high idle" is maximum no load speed like John stated. Don't be afraid to work it, remember this is a low output non turbo engine, full output is a fraction of what it would put out in a modern engine.
Sounds like good rings. Disregard my advice.
OK … OK . Got to feeling bad about that . You can have the car Friday night old buddy after we install the MSD rev limiter . https://www.msdperformance.com/products/rpm_and_timing_controls/rpm_controls/parts/8728 And don't be winding it up in the driveway at 2 am when ya bring it back !
My mother had a Galaxy 500 back in the sixties. The rings were well seated in that 352 V8.
If that 353 was like the one I had in my, I believe it was a 1962 convertible, half the horse power that engine produced must have gone to running the fuel pump. It was the worst gas hog I ever owned. Went from that to a full sized Dodge with a 383 and mileage and power both just about doubled!
Pushing the throttle pedal to the floor could be compared to flushing a toilet. But back then gas was $0.28 per gallon.
Meant to type 352. $0.28 a gallon sounds cheap but back then I thought making $2.89 an hour was good pay! And I guess it was, as that was my starting pay, to just be a laborer shoveling under a conveyor all tools provided! When I retired after 45 years I was only making a bit over $25.00 an hour and had to supply a large box of tools!