Yair . . . Some old photos of three tractor pulling that have turned up. They are all taken in light Mulga unfortunately . . . much more interesting in heavy going. First one is the custom made "V" blade that allowed the centre tractor to slide off trees and clear logs out of his path . . . we not gonna bend the side arms on that sucker. Just pulled up, I see someone on the middle tractor talking to the operator . . . unusual that the outside machine has his blade up in the air when stopped. If you look close can just see the machines in staggered formation View attachment 122124 Dunno what's going on here, they are working pretty narrow. Cheers.
Yair . . . Sorry folks I blew that #1 post proper. I don't know what I did but you will have to click on the attachment link to get the aerial view to open . . . and the captions are not in the right place right but anyway . . . . Cheers.
Love everything you post, Scrub. You are a wealth of history and information.
Awesome photos Scrub. As always, if you have more post them! I hope I'll get the chance to jump the lake and come see what its really like down under.
Very cool pictures of some very cool Iron....thanks for posting them....
good pics scrub :drinkup Are those HD21As with the 21000 engine; oil converter and wet steering clutchs; or earlier ones. Yes know there was quite a few changes with 21s up until the start of the P series, looked at a mates spec sheets 2 weekends ago. Seems AC marketed both the A and P at the same time for awhile. Contractor up my way had 2 when I was a kid; early 21000 powered one with dry brakes and diesel converter and a later one with oil converter and updated brake kit from dry to wet. Both seemed to go alright. cheers merv
Yair . . . D6 Merv . The one I'm leaning on with the "v" blade was the later series with the oil azz-end, convertor and clutch and a beautiful oil bath front mounted PCU . . . probably the best series Twenty-one they ever made. The other two were dry azz-end and clutch with the diesel converter. They all would have had the 21000 engine, not sure of the hp settings 275 seems to ring a bell. Cheers.
Cool photos Scrub. Where'd you get that hat you're wearing in the first photo...and are they still available?
I really enjoy the photos of the old equipment and men who ran it. I have a greater appreciation for what it required: saw an old crane that had the operator sitting right next to the engine...or on family road trips and seeing highway projects with the operators on scrapers or dozers with an open cab and maybe an umbrella. Keep posting the pics guys!
Yair . . . JNB . I was a bit surprised by that hat too when I saw the photo, I don't remember it. All my life I wore the light white "Texas straw" as we used to call them. Cheers.
Hey Scrub, Great photos. Are these photos really from OZ? A couple of folks down under would make one believe its almost illegal to wear long pants. LOL. Keep posting, I love the photos. Roger
Hey JNB, if you ask really nice,scrub might give you one when that hat has pups.
Yair . . . Thanks for responses . . . when they were taken who would have thought such snaps would be of interest to folks on the other side of the world . . . and closer to home of course. A few more here . . . . First one is loading chain. I think I mentioned in a post wayback about pulling it on with a tractor with a piece of blade-rope reeved around a pully welded under the gooseneck . . . the tractor just works back and forth and the off-sider pokes the end loop through a link and shoves a 1" breaker bar or what ever through to hold it. The old Freighter two rows of eight it was pretty short and it was difficult to get sufficient chain on when we got the D9G's in 1965. . . we had to be able to shift a tractor and its allocation of chain in one trip. Loaded up and heading out. Notice the "horn" on the corner of the angle blade. This allowed higher contact on a tree and made it easier to slide off and was also good for fenceline clearing which we (I) did a lot of in those days. The old netting sheep fences, thousands of miles of them in the southwest often had scrub and trees growing right against them and the horn with the blade angled helped keep timber off the fence . . . notice no brakes or rego on the tanker. The site is asking me if I want to "stay on this page" and acting up a little when I post. I'll give it a miss for now and try and get a few more up tomorrow . . . I mean they are nothing much but may be of interest. Cheers.
That an old B Mack dragging that 21?
Yair . . . Yes DMiller that's the old girl. I believe she had been uprated to 250HP and had the five and three although, in affect, the Triplex was just a splitter. I preferred that set up to the Quad Box for heavy haul. A pretty poor front on picture here . . . . Cheers.
Great picture. I am more than a bit partial to the B Models with a 2 stick. Learned to drive a truck in one. Guess you didn't have to worry about overweight permits in them days, eh. Any thoughts on what you grossed out at on the old girl.
Yair . . . old-iron-habit It was not so bad with the HD21's and I don't really know but, with a D9G and half the chain on that same two axle trailer it must have been around one hundred and sixty or seventy thousand pounds . . . putting one on here . . . . The pictures have been posted on HEF before but you may have missed them. Cheers.
No such thing as over weight back then. If your truck had the balls to move the load it was on its way, and I didn't see any rego sticker on the windscreen of that Mack now I come to think of it.
Reminds me of my old days at Mack St. Louis, worked on many a B and R series, old Thermodynes were hard engines to beat with dry sleeves. Never used chain drags here but do remember a old friend that took his equipment where he wanted no permits, had a D8 unsure what series(in 1976) full 14' semi U with ripper astern, headed out AT NIGHT to another friends farm to dig a pond(65 miles away), luck would have it threw but two chains across the back and as he navigated a short hard turn the old crawler snapped both then slid off side ways, slipped down a hillside taking out brush and tree to stop still on the rails. Got it started(had rolled over once and mangled the sweeps) drove it back up the hill loaded on the state highway and went on to do the pond dig. Old machine was never quite right after and he soon traded it. He towed with a 1974 R600 Maxidyne engine set up to 370hp. At the time he did the haul the limits in MO were 73,280 pounds, no overwide after sun down and never haul the entire machine at once. I dare say had they caught him would have been bad! Will always have a soft spot for the old B's.
Nice pics Scrubpuller.
Did it seem normal to be doing things like that back then? Did you realise at the time that it would be so interesting to look back on later down the track? I can't see that anything that we consider normal now, in our over regulated over legislated life, will be of much interest in a few decades time. Just think how bad things will have to be in the future to make us think back and say "gee it was amazing what we got away with way back in 2014...."
Plant Fitter You have hit the nail on the head. Skill in the trades is being regulated out of existence. Now every job has to be set up so that the thickest idiot can do it without getting hurt. With the progression of that thought, by the time I am truly old, it will be sad to watch how things get done. The other thing missing today is any sense of economy. It seems to not matter how much money needs to be spent in order to do something "safely" that could be done by a skilled person with hardly a second thought. I could go on, but don't have all day. Scrub: Thanks for taking the time to share your old pictures with us.
Yair . . . Thanks fellers for all the comments. Had we known that some time in the future we would have this thing called the "internet" and things we saw as "everyday" and "normal" would be of interest to folks all around the world sometime in the future we would all have taken more photos. Of course back then taking photos was a carry on . . . in the little Western towns I knew you could not always buy film. Then you had to get the film developed. In the larger towns often the local chemist arranged for developing black and white. For colour prints and slides the film had to be mailed away to Kodak . . . there were others but I always found Kodak were the best. All this was quite expensive of course and my Yashika SLR camera cost about three weeks wages. I find it amazing in this digital age that our new camera (relatively) cost less than the Yashica and I can put pictures on sites such as this for essentially zero cost. Cheers.
Welcome to 2014 Scrub.
Yair . . . . Guday Garrie (big grin). I know I am a dinosaur but you know, not all the new stuff and new way of doing things is necessarily better . . . the photography stuff is though . . . bloody hell ..........!! Cheers.
A 55er agrees wholeheartedly,not that far behind you.
There is a lot of talk about how good the B model Macks were. But I have never see one still being used that I know of, and very rarely see any old ones for sale. There are plenty of Fordson and Chamberlain tractors, and Caterpillar earthmoving gear from the same era still in use. So were the B models as good as people say? Or just better than other trucks of the same time?
Yair . . . Good points Plant Fitter but really how much 1960's gear is being used other than for demonstrations and shows? And actually there are a couple of "B" models around. In the last 12 months I have seen one running as a watertruck and another all doe'd up hauling a hawkers trailer of Western Gear heading north. That's just two out of the hundreds that were out there. I believe that in their day they were demonstrably better than anything else available for heavy haul . . . and really what was there? I remember a few ex military Federals, Diamond Reos, and I kicked off in an NR Mack with the Lanova diesel snigging near thirty tons of HD21 and chain. There were various Internationals of course but in Queensland and the Territory it was mainly Pommy stuff on road train work and heavy haul. Leyland, Foden, Scammel, Atkinson and AEC . . . quite a suspect bunch. I got to drive a few of them over the years but never really came to grips with any apart perhaps from a twin steer Foden with a straight eight Gardiner. The oil and gas boom of the early 'sixties saw a bit of "American Iron" around Roma and I moonlighted over holidays/days off on a couple of quite nice Peterbuilt stretched oilfield trucks with 6-71 GMs My day job though was with the dozers and relocations. First off with the NR that was fitted with a 6-71, then a Quadbox "B" model which I did not like and then the Triplex rig shown in the pictures which ended up with a very early Drake four axle trailer. The Macks just kept on going and I remember very few problems. They had cramped cabs and in summer the bloody things would near cook you. We had out own licenced HF radio channel and the receivers were quite large and I remember on one haul out near Tambo all the plastic connectors on the back of the radio near the fire wall melted and dripped onto the floor. It was amazing how those engines held together. There was a big pyro on a dash bracket and I used to hang my hat on it so I couldn't see it way up there in the red. And the gearboxes and clutches too. On those long blacksoil stretches where the road is straight to the horizon and you have had to lift off for a mob of cattle or something and have lost your momentum, well down in the box and she's on the governor but you know if you let off or push the clutch in to shift she's gonna stop so you bide your time till you find a place where there is a bit of a high crown to road and cut her hard down into the table drain and crunch a whole gear through. She doesn't like and bucks a bit but accepts the load and settles back on twenty one hundred and you are looking for the next spot to grab another half a gear as you work back up to speed . . . imagine doing that these days? (big grin) Any way (in my opinion) they were the truck of their era and the two stick transmission and noisy air start imbued them with a certain mystique . . . much as pilot motor start and black fuel (instead of distillate) did for Caterpillar equipment. Incidentally Plant Fitter thanks for instructions re the private message thing. I have printed it out and will I'll give it a test this weekend. Cheers.
I'm enjoying the thread and looking forward to a lot more, Scrub!
I'm not talking about demonstrations and shows, I mean still earning their keep. There are plenty of Chamberlain 9G's and Fordson Power Majors that are still being used on farms. Obviosly not many are the main tractor on the place, but a lot have been fitted with front end loaders and get used for loader work, pto work, 3pl work, the sort of use where they may be used every day for a week and then not used for a few weeks. I know a Fordson that gets used every single day mixing feed for 1000 cattle in a feedlot. Plus you often see them for sale, in running order. As for earthmoving gear, there are still machines that age being used on farms, but it is often a case of "firing up the old dozer" to do a job, and then it might sit unused for the next couple of years. That's what I am trying to work out, if they were just better than the rest. Sounds like that's probably the case. (actually I know a Diamond Reo that just needs a jumpstart to put to work if needed) Thats exactly what I mean. With comments like that, surely you would understand that it always makes me wonder why if they were that good, you don't still see them around.
Yair . . . Plant Fitter . I don't quite get your point . . . I seriously doubt any truck running today will be earning it's keep in 2040. You have to remember that we are talking hauling fifty or more tons with engine outputs that you see these days in pizzy little flatdecks hauling a few head of cattle, refrigerators or whatall. With the technology of the 1960's the Macks held together better than most other iron of the day. Besides, I doubt there's too many blokes out there these days who could or would drive them . . . I can assure you there is nothing like a Quad box to bring a smart azz back to earth. (In my experience) they were unforgiving and it was pretty much game over if you ever blew a compound shift . . . you ended up with two boxes full of grindy noise and neutral had to start again all over. On the trucks I drove we are talking 28, 32 or 40 MPH diffs . . . not ideal on the highway although the trucks on general were geared a little higher. And it's along time since I've seen a driver rocking on the clutch at standstill to turn on a bit of lock. Cheers.
Plant fitter , Just happened to see this today . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmN5Ot8K4gI#t=289
Great thread Scrub! There were still quite a few two axle B models fitted with dump boxes pulling out of the Bradley gravel pit in California in the late 90's. The trucks were different colors but all of the frames were red. Seemed to be a Mack thing. These days the commies out there would arrest the driver for gross pollution. Doesn't seem right to deny a man the right to make a living. Your recollection of the quad box brings back memories.The first concrete mixer I drove was a White with a 5/4. Hauling up the steep narrow streets above Hollywood...hoping some turd in a Mercedes didn't come around the corner and trying real hard not to miss a shift. If either happened it'd be a start from a dead stop and a 3mph trip to the top. I drove that truck for a little over two years til the boss threw me into a new slope nosed Pete booster with a 9 speed. Driving the Pete felt like retirement after wrestling that twin stick.
Those old Quad and Triplexes gave me many hours or work, or should I say the guys who thought they could drive them! Not saying I could shift one very good but I sure could tear one down in short order and stick it back togeather in pretty short order. I've mentione else where on the forum about riding with an old Italian truck driver at one of our small black top plants. I was riding along to see if the fuel line suction hose I replaced solved his power problem. I could not believe how easy he made that triplex go through the gears while talking non-stop in city and highway traffic. Never so much a click going into each gear and he did it all with one hand not reaching through the steering wheel with the left hand like many I've seen. They don't make them like that anymore!
yep you got it right there Jerry; what all politicians have forgotten is that you cannot legislate against stupidity. Darwins theory of evolution. and as a guy once told me. there is 3 type of people in the world 1 those that make things happen 2 those that watch things happen 3 those that wonder WHY things happen. The chinaman aan,t concerned about no3 is another 10 men to replace him. We have so much rules regulations and COST to protect no3; not to mention the environmental bull; that the costs and paperwork of everything are slowing grinding us to a halt. The Chinese are taking over the world. And the truth of it is many of us in all countrys are becoming tenants in our own land. What will stop it ??? world war 3 ??? Way we are legislated we will loose it this time. We are all watching the end of the goodtimes, food for thought. Im lucky NZ is 10+ years behind the USA. sometimes I can, do, and will work barefeet in shorts and black singlet. No pegs, no bull, just get it done right by eyeometry. with just a abney level to help. Bit like you in the pic aye scrub ! And best I get it right, bad news travels fast, could be the last job I get Still another 15 years to go tho ! so best keep working while I can. Time you had some more pics scrub :notworthy GOOD thread :drinkup
You fellas in the great Southern Hemisphere don't know the half of the rules we live by. Pretty stupid when a 'Environmental Impact study' has to be performed to replace a bridge already standing, to determine if bridge pier construction will affect the eco-system, or looking to replace a four lane highway with six, same context as finding cause to limit the road size due to impact. Our industries disappear at a exponentially alarming rate and what do the regulators do, increase attacks on those still in business as they have to justify their existence. They do not concern themselves that the Chinese build all our machinery or that their own existence is on limited ground as the businesses falter they just have a cross to bear to get all clean and perfect for the next group on the Fed dime.
Yes Dave; the problem is all these useless paper shuffling people in the world who have to justify there existence, but do nothing to add any wealth to the countrys. Eventually the canoe has to tip over :beatsme Biggest problem imho has been too many lawyers in government/parliament. All they can do is make rules and laws to feather the nests of there previous life workmates. Scrub !! :notworthy more photos; am guilty your honour of hijacking your thread; will pay your fine with :drinkup
Yair . . . Gotcha D6 Merv . There are a few more, I will try and get a couple up this weekend. And as regards hi-jacking. I believe this site is a valuable resource for information and entertainment, if the conversation goes off on a tangent it is of no consequence . . . I just find it heartening that folks are interested in what I thought were inconsequential "happy snaps". Cheers.
Scrub, your "happy snaps" are exactly that, snapshots of happy times, though you may not have known it as much then. Sort of a time machine for some of us, glimpses of a hard but good life, something to look back on with pride. Curiousity keeps us waiting for the next ones, looking at the pictures and savoring fond memories of our own that they remind us of is what keeps us coming back. Not to mention some sweet iron to look at. Eh, must have had one too many pints, almost waxed poetical there. Steady on!
Scrub, The photo of the chain on the float reminded me of a story an old(er) contractor once told me when he neatly laid a full length of chain down the main street of Alpha one night after it fell through the boards of the trailer. Cheers, Greg
My point is, I am interested in machinery, but I am only in my thirties, so I obviously wasn't around when the old gear was in use. When I hear people talk about how good the old Fordson and Chamberlain tractors were, there is living proof, I've seen dozens still being used and have used a couple myself. I probably became aware of what a B model Mack was maybe 15 or 20 years ago. I have heard plenty of stories and read plenty of articles of people saying have good the old B models were. But in the last 15 or 20 years, I have never seen any still at work, that I can recall. So now, thanks to your explanation, I am able to come to the realisation that the main reason they got such a good reputation, is that they were better than anything else at the time. Because everything else at the time were, as you put it, "quite a suspect bunch" As for nobody these days who could or would drive one, I would love to have a go at driving one. Just for the novelty of it if nothing else. Keep the old photos coming, I love seeing how things were done in days gone by.
In 1977 I was dyno testing a B63 with a transplant Maxidyne the owner had installed, had a Triplex in it. Managed to get it up to speed and set the throttle for testing then was looking about the cab, funny little knob/pull cable on the dash so I tugged. Bad day as the engine roared a little harder than I like, the old man had installed a governor over-ride operated off the cable, tug for a little POP of power, threw fuel like it was a open hose, set fire to the dyno exhaust hood and got my *** chewed by the dealership manager. Still was a slick old truck. Have had my hands on or in more trucks than I care to remember anymore, Mack, Eaton, Fuller, Spicer and other transmissions, 4x4 Brownies, 5x4, 7,9,19 then 13,15 and DLL trans along with the triplex and quads from Mack. Worst setup to shift I ever saw was a KW K100C with a 5x4, oil field truck in Oklahoma, had a air shift 4spd. for deeper reduction behind the two stick boxes. PITA!
Darn poetry right there.
Funny thing about trucks and equipment, it seems you can find some pretty nice low hour examples of older units that were deemed unreliable or unlikeable because they got parked instead of working, while the sturdy machines that got the job done all got run to destruction simply because they were the best for the job, at that time.
Yair . . . Some wisdom and logic in your #44 post lantraxco . . . I have never thought of it like that. Hey Queenslander . I heard the story about length of scrub-chain laying down the main street of some town . . . didn't know it was Alpha. Gotcha Plant Fitter no worries. As far as driving a Triplex goes . . . I made an extension for the hi/lo transfer case lever on the old three speed 'Cruisers (the shift is side to side) and the difficulty in splitting is similar to the Mack box. After a while it becomes a reflex action and the compound shifts just happen . . . if you try to think about what you are doing, say going from second high to third low there's a good chance you will blow it. I always found it to be strange sort of melding between man and machine. A Quad box kept you busier if you used them all but depending on terrain you could skip a lot of shifts. There used to be a good clip on the tube going up and down through the box under load with the two handed shifts but it seems to have gone . . . this bloke is good with one hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uhkygogd1A Cheers.
That could of been the guy I rode with but he did all his shifting with his "right" hand