Hi Guy's I have a d6c power shift 47j272 towing an onions 9/11 box you have always been very helpful on here and solved many problems last season!! I am finding that the torque converter oil gets hot nearly to the red after 5 hours of heavy work. but interestingly the oil cools a little when on a heavy dig ? and starts to climb when traveling ? I have checked the breaks and backed them off a bit in case they are binding. if it was a torque converter issue it would cook up when digging ? I have also checked the quantity of oil in the torque after running and it was the correct amount so the scavenge pump must be working. I have also changed the white metal shells in the trans pump as they were warn and cleaned out the oil cooler o the side of the engine however this model dosent have the oil cooler under the radiator! does any one know if it is possible to fit an additional oil cooler ? thanks again jason
Jason, stall the torque until the temp comes up on the gauge, put it out of gear with full throttle and watch the gauge. If the gauge climbs at high idle you have low oil flow to the torque converter. Likely the seals on the tube feeding the trans valve at the RH rear corner of the trans. Clean and remove the top plate to check, start and you will see oil coming out. Common cause of overheating. Later Bob
hi bob, I have checked this pipe before and there was no leaking. by stalling you mean dig the blade in and select 3rd gear and increase throttle to full ? and then watch the gauge ? it should climb to hot and then when taken out of gear it should reduce to normal ? Jason
Put the machine in 3rd speed forward, foot on the brake. Accelerate to full engine RPM and watch the TC gauge climb. When it gets up to the point at which it gets close to the red zone flick the transmission into neutral but keep the engine RPM at high idle. Watch what the gauge does. If it continues to climb for a while before starting to fall then, as Bob say ..... "you have low oil flow to the torque converter. Likely the seals on the tube feeding the trans valve at the RH rear corner of the trans. Clean and remove the top plate to check, start and you will see oil coming out. Common cause of overheating."
Hi nige, I tried to stall the torque I put in in 3rd gear dug the blade in and foot on brakes full throttle waited 4 mins and gauge only moved 1/4 inch I didn't want to break any thing so I gave up !!!! what do you think how long to stall the torque from hot/cold ? regards Jason
Was everything at normal working temperature when you started the test..? You can't do it from cold because if the coolant temp is well down it will suck whatever heat the converter will produce straight out of the oil. With all systems at normal operating temperature the gauge should be in the red within 30-45 seconds approx.
Another place oil flow can be lost causing over heat is the steering valve. Check adjustment if a valve is open slightly it can leak oil and not release a clutch. Later Bob
hi guys, Right I have just stalled the torque !! This is whats happened I got the machine warm after half a days work all working well I put the blade in the dirt and machine in third gear then with foot on brake I went to full throttle and counted, after about sixty seconds the needle had not moved !! then it moved only about 1/8 ' at that point I chickened out worried about doing any lasting damage !!! then put the machine in natural with full throttle and the needle climbed to the red fairly quickly and then droped slowly to 1/4 below the red. I then did 2 or so boxes and noticed the heat was creeping up near the red and the machine was down on power ? not from the engine as that is fine when reving out of gear. it just felt a bit sluggish ? so I have now parked it up and need some help ! I have noticed some oil leaking from various different locations around the converter. Also don't thin its a clutch problem as I had both of them out last lear and also when in gear if I pull both clutch levers the machine stops.
If the needle climbs as you say with the transmission in neutral go back to Bob's comments above - "You have low oil flow to the torque converter. Likely the seals on the tube feeding the trans valve at the RH rear corner of the trans. Clean and remove the top plate (of the transmission) to check, start and you will see oil coming out. Common cause of overheating." Time to get the spanners out by the look of it.
I have checked this pipe last year when the machine was doing the same thing. took of the big plate on top and started the machine there was no leaking I remember this as I made the mistake of putting the machine in gear and getting covered in oil !!
Suggest you check it again. Why did you check it last year..? What problem did the machine have..?
Could be one speed clutch that is leaking also, what gears are you mostly using when traveling versus dozing?
Basic thing first mate; does engine temp rise along with converter temp. these girls only have oil to water cooler so engine should rise along with converter temp. If engine temp is unchanged; fit a new converter temp guage. Often just the gauge is faulty :notworthy If both temps rise; tc first then engine; pull radiator and clean it; well probably water wash core first in place; if that doesn't work tubes are most likely internally blocked and its radiator out. ok if new gauge still rises we have problems and have to go to a full pressure test to check things; including lube pressure as if its low, often flow through the converter is low. Pump first feeds sequence relief valve then t/c inlet relief valve. both are mounted together on front r/h side of converter these need pressure testing along with converter outlet relief valve on opposite side of converter. Everything the others has told you is correct also; im just starting at the easiest things first. fwiw Early 6Cs had oil to water only. The 140hp models with the turbo had a oil to air cooler added as well; this continued with early D6Ds; later Ds just had a bigger oil to water cooler. I had similar problems with both my Ds one early one late; both would overheat in hot summer conditions 30C plus; in the finish both got new radiators, end of all problems
Merv, I seem to having the same problem as you did with your Ds. I have been on a job where I was ripping up an old house lot (constant steady pulling), then clearing a small grove of belt high stumps with my 6C 69J with a 3306. When root ripping and stumping, I had her stalled for short periods quite often. It runs and pulls great even when hot but after everything is up to operating temp in 90F+ weather, the converter and engine temp get close to hot together. Bit of health history for diagnosis, I dug a pond last fall in 60F temps with no overheating issue either side. I have a temp marked gauge for the engine and the original green(go) red(stop) converter temp gauge. I let it the engine get up to around 210 and the converter within 1/4" of red before letting her high idle and cool back down to ~170, and the converter temp drops back to half green range at the same time. Cycle time is 10-15 minutes of heavy work. They seem to rise and fall together. I thought the radiator core might have been restricted so I powerwashed it out with no change. I was set on pulling the converter when I got it home, but after your post, I am leaning toward a the radiator core tubes being blocked instead. I've had that problem on my D8H and IH TD20 and saw a drastic improvement in cooling upon rodding and cleaning. I can do pressure testing before yanking, but would the rad. be your first suspect? If so, is it much of a job? The 8H was an easy pull despite its size.
yes to cleaning the radiator internally first. And even externally they can get a lot of dust etc that dries into mud and sets and insulates them and prevents radiating heat. I had cleaned all mine like this, but finally came to the conclusion they just weren't getting rid of the heat, possibly because of dirt outside the tubes externally. New radiators completely cured all problems. Guages never get past halfway up green even in 30C + temps; your 90f. radiators are easy to pull, just like the D8H, but easier ! Just one other quick thought. the TC has a bypass valve like a thermostat that sends tc oil through the oil to air cooler when hot. check its working. oil pipes to the cooler in the radiator should be hot when the tc temp gauge is hot. hope you sort her out; cheers :drinkup
Much appreciation for the advice. I will dive into her when I get her back to the shop.
I vote to forget working on it at all. I never saw one C that would not run hotter than the gauge said was "green". most guys I knew would pay no attention to that gauge at all. If it takes 5 hours to get up to the "red" zone but still not in it I would say your tractor is running as well as can be expected unless you put another trans cooler out front.
The converter temp isn't what I'm worried about as is stays in the green. I DON'T want to put a head on it because I cooked the engine down. When it gets up to 210 and I can see it going higher, it's time to stop, let it cool, and later when time allows, find the overheating problem. If I were running in our typical August temps of 105, I could forget about getting anything done. An analog gauge with marked gradiations doesn't lie. Something is wrong and needs to be fixed.
Our D6C 10K does the same thing as far as heating up & I did the test Bob recommended this afternoon when it was hot & the gauge goes way up into the red on stall after about a minute or so & comes right back down when it is back in neutral. Ours must be another problem then. Never a problem in the winter, just in warmer weather.