Hey all, thanks for putting together a great site. Have been lurking for a while and found lots of great information as I'm contemplating shooting myself in the foot once again I found myself the owner of 40 acres of mixed hardwoods, pines, hills, valleys, and a nice little creek in South Carolina. My new best friend is a DR All Terrain brush hog (thanks Dad!) that we have been beating back the underbrush with. With the DR and a chainsaw, I've been clearing paths and opening things up a bit as there are scrub pines, sweet gums, and vines galore. But now I've got about 30 brush piles to deal with and its time to cut in some roads and clear out a spot for a shop and cabin. My first call was to have someone come in, put in a road and clear out an area of about 2 acres. I can do the rest after I get settled and I was given some fair prices to get this done, but it also got me thinking that for the same money I can get a dozer (whether it may be working or not is another story, hence, lurking on Heavy Equipment....) In the mean time, the guy with the dozer kept getting delayed so I started looking harder at equipment. Looking at equipment led to the typical questions, what type, size, model, cost, condition, etc, etc, My first thought was a backhoe like a Case 580 thinking it would be a good General Purpose machine. I could dig stumps, scrape the ground, and move piles of stuff. One thing that really concerns me is that this red clay is like iron when its dry and if its one thing that I have learned is that too small a machine is nothing more than an expensive paper weight. I've got a Ford 8N that can barely plow a hard snow and won't pull a small stump out of sandy ground. It will skid logs if I cut them short enough, but that kinda defeats the purpose The two things that this site has reinforced for me, and hopefully all that lurk about is 1: Speed costs money, how fast to you want to go? and 2; Its going to break and its going to cost! So after another delay, I still think that I want a small dozer and start looking. Again, one thing that reinforced this line of thinking is reading through this forum. "Digging dirt is easy, moving dirt is expensive" "A tractor is not a loader, and a loader is not a dozer, know the difference." Kind of like Dad when I bought a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. "That's no 44 magnum so don't treat it like one. If you want a 44, go buy a dang 44!" Knowing nothing about them except for what I've been reading, it seems that the purchase price is the least expense incurred in the life of a dozer owner. Like the foundry industry, heavy equipment operates in a constant state of self destruct and it is the nature of the beast to wear out. So, looking at my situation, I start to think a dozer is what I need the most to grade in a road and a pad for construction. I can cut trees, skid logs, and the small stumps should be putty in a dozer's blade. We might have to work at some big ones but with a blade and a chain, something will eventually give. Hopefully it will be the stump. So I've actively started my search and am still learning as I go. I actually took my first test ride this weekend on a Komatsu D20, looked at a worn out Ford 655 backhoe, and talked with a lot of nice people. In the mean time, I've rented a mini excavator for a week to get rid of some stumps and get a feel for what machines will do. Its about a 8K lb machine with a thumb and 6 hours in I bust a main bucket pin and bend the ear on the bucket quick attach. What was Rule #1? Its going to break and its going to cost. They replaced it with another machine and 4 hrs into it, I bust the lower fitting on the thumb hydraulic lines sending fluid all over........ What was Rule #1 again? As I'm adding up the repair costs for these items I can't help but think, "I'm not paying for the use of the machine, I'm paying for it to go away!" Yet, I still sit here and think I need a dozer......:Banghead Hopefully the Heavy Equipment Disease hasn't fully taken hold and I can still be saved...... Uh Oh... just got a text from a guy with a D31 and D38 for sale...... and the BD2G guy dropped his price..... AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRG ointhead Thanks everyone! H
in my opinion for what your doing a track loader is the correct machine for the $.....953-963 size...
Welcome to the Forums hmc710!:drinkup I would hate to have to pay that rental bill...:cool2
A dozer has always been my favorite piece of equipment, however if I could only have one thing it would be a backhoe. They may not be the best at every job, but they can do a little of everything. A good one can be had for a reasonable price if you are willing to spend some time searching.
I personally use an Excavator on all of my clearing jobs and the tractor and Excavator combination have worked well for me. I have done clearing with a dozer and a backhoe. I love both machines but would never want to use the backhoe for clearing and the dozer is nice but for a home owner I would imagine you want it for other around the property uses after. If you just want to clear the best machine for the job would be an Excavator. They work the best for brush clearing stup removal etc. I would look at for a home owner like a 12-15 ton machine. Something like a 13 ton would work well. I don't know your price range but this is one that would work well for a homeowner ( http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9806865 ) As others have said a 953-963 sized track loader would be better then a dozer for land clearing. This would be excellent ( http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9921655 ) Now if you are planning on keeping this machine when you are done with your project get a CTL. Something like a Cat 299c-289c would be ok. Good for brush, horrible for stumps but It is the kind of machine you will be able to reasonably keep after the project is done ( http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9952407 )
You can buy a big piece of iron for the same money as a little piece of steel. Honestly If you are tearing stuff up like you are I would suggest hiring a pro
:iagree It would be nice to have one of everything...... But if you cant afford that a backhoe will get you by. IMO I dont see an excavator alone getting everything done you want to do. A dozer might if its big enough and/or the stumps are small enough and you can use a truck or something else for compaction.
I agree the backhoe is the jack of all trades, master of none. Looking at a D20/D21 size is wasting your time for clearing. I own a D4e dozer, which is over twice as big, and it's not enough for clearing. I do own a D21, I bought it because it was a screaming deal, I was going to sell it, but it's nice for pulling it to a logging road with my Fsuperduty and spreading a load of rock. I clear with a 49,000 lb excavator, it works well. It will almost certainly be cheaper hiring the work done, but if you are going to do it, you need a hoe, a track loader, or an impractically large dozer.
I agree with the others comments. After reading the damage to the mini-ex's, you'll destroy a D21 trying to clear - I would destroy it on purpose if that's all I had to clear with. A backhoe is a jack of all trades, a master of none as Mitch said. It will be one of the most expensive pieces of equipment to operate for what you want to do, however it does have it's usefulness in other tasks. My suggestion would be a 953B, tough as nails and can take a beating..:cool2
Track loader Track loader Track loader! A 953 is the exact machine for the work you describe.
Thanks All, Impractically large dozer.... Great information and I really appreciate it. The guy that came out and picked up the mini ex with the broken pin told me that was the third time on that machine. He said the original pin lasted a long time but the replacements have failed right away. I didn't think I was being too hard on the machine, I was only running half throttle but I guess you never know. I've got the 8N which is good for running the brush hog and an old Case 1845 Skid Steer. I figured with a grapple bucket or rake on it I could move the brush piles and lift up logs to cut for fire wood. The guy with the D20 had some nice roads cut in and could skid some large logs. I agree it wouldn't touch the stumps tho so that is a consideration. Why a track loader over a dozer or back hoe? Thanks again, H
I'd say backhoe, but then you mention you have a skidsteer and ford, and "issues" with the rented mini excavator. My guess is you're expecting too much from equipment and you'll have almost the same issues with a backhoe. OK, maybe the pin wasn't all your fault, but it's pretty easy to rip a hose off a backhoe.
as stated by others..a backhoe is a jack of all trades and master of none.....a trackloader will # for # and $ for $ be in my opinion the best tool for the job you describe........with the elevated bucket you can push trees over that would take twice the dozer size ....the bucket curl is works great at stumping.....the teeth on the bucket makes a great root rake......you can pick up and carry with one....you can dig a great bury hole and cover with one.....you can move material with the bucket....you can grade fine with one..............and YES a big excavator will do tree work faster ....but at twice the price...and they are not a proficient grading tool.....a track loader is a farmers delight .... we own....two backhoes...2 skidloaders....3 dozers..D7H -D4H size...953c.....a myrid of tractors....jd 240 excavator.... to selectively remove small trees 8" n under i use a backhoe and thumb wait for damp soil and just go pull them up by the roots..and carry them to my disposal area.......anything larger its the 953.....
A while back I saw a clean looking 977L on CL at asking price of 7K or some such. I almost bought it just to give it a home.
Thanks ttazzman, great perspective. There are a few track loaders listed around my area. H
Lots of machines out there, called on a IH 500, IH100C, Cat 955, Case 450, & JD 450. Have info coming on a couple of Cat953's. Haven't busted anything in a couple of days so there may be hope for me yet.... H
Friend of mine has a Case 580 Super E, does all he needs from it save mowing the fields so he also has a farm tractor. Me I have a 70hp farm tractor with a loader attachment then a tracked loader old Allis but serves well for the money in it. Along with buying it and a spare broken tractor I have close to $10K in it but still using it and enjoying the time keeping it functional as that gives me insight as to what to look for in its replacement. I too passed on a 977L, had a paint job overhaul, would be needing rails near future and had an issue I could not put a finger to as to steering, seemed to react oddly but was told by the owner had always been soft at turning so I passed at $11800, that was last year, also passed on a 977K that had not ran in years and the fella that had it was upping the price IF I got it running before I had bought it, $6500, another pass.
Been learning a lot checking out machines and talking with people. Looked at a 450 Case the other day and everything was there with no real leaks. Had a JD 450 parked next to it and you could see the difference in size. I made an offer but it didn't go through. Kinda glad as the Case 450 is not even close to a Cat 953 mentioned above. It just seemed similar to my 1845 Skid steer (old and ugly) which has served me well. Hopefully after all this information I'll get over the bug and be all the wiser for it. (I guess miracles do happen ) Going to try and look at a Cat 955 this weekend..... H
Looked at the 955 but starter was froze up and would not start. Messed with it a bit but no luck. Nice looking older machine, but without it running a big gamble. Looked at a JD450B and should have pulled the trigger on it but it didn't work out. Ended up with a Mitsubishi B2G dozer. Not too bad of shape and cuts a nice path through the brush.
Been playing with the machine and starting to like it a lot. Not a big horse so have to understand the limits, but getting the hang of it more and more. Definitely need fluids changed so have to get my filters lined up. Pins, bushings, and sprockets are all worn and finding replacement parts on ebay etc. Had it overheat once so looking at pulling and flushing radiator when I do the fluids. Take it easy and runs nice and cool. Anyone have a Napa filter cross reference sheet for this unit? H
Those Mitsubishi's aren't bad dozers. My friend has one. Prefer a cat, but you still did well!
Found a link for Baldwin Filters and took it to local NAPA store for cross reference Baldwin engine = BT292 = Napa 1786 Baldwin fuel = BF1110 = Napa 3394 Baldwin air = PA1667-FN = Napa 2222 Got some Gunk and cleaner and will hose things down and see how it goes.
Enjoy your Mitsubishi, remember it isn't a d-8. Stay safe
Ran the machine last week and it wouldn't start back up right away. It usually fires right off. It took about three long cranks before it fired and ran fine after that. I bought the Napa filters and went to start it up today to warm it up change the oil and it would not start. I went ahead and changed the fuel filter and used the plunger to fill it back up. The plunger filled the filter, but it leaked diesel fuel while doing it. The engine still would not start after changing the filter. I cracked open an injector line and cranked the engine but didn't get much if any fuel from the line. I opened the throttle and tried it again with no change. The 24v solenoid at the pump is operating when the key is turned. Any suggestions? Thanks, H
Starting fuild just a quick spray as you are cranking
I'll be real surprised if your not starting issue is fuel related. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but I'm leaning on blown head gasket / cracked head pretty hard from the overheating and sludge in the radiatior.
I hear ya SJ, the head gasket crossed my mine and I beat myself up for letting it get warm, but I kept an eye on it and didn't think it got that hot. So..... went out today, cleaned all battery terminals and cables, fired up the generator and put the battery charger on each battery to make sure they were all charged up. While the batteries were charging we pulled the floor board covers and cleaned up below there and under the seat. The universal looked ok and gave it some grease. The hydraulic system was a bit low on oil but I did not have any 10 wgt with me so I put that on the To Do list. We loosened the fitting going to injector pump and primed the system. The plunger still leaked but I did get some air out of the fuel line to the pump. I tightened the fitting and pumped the primer a few more times. I loosened up two injector lines at the pump and hooked the batteries back up. I cranked the engine while my lovely assistant watched the lines..... and, no fuel. Maybe it had lost its prime so I cranked it some more and let it crank. After about 20 - 30 seconds I let off the key and the darn thing fired up! It was missing a bit and the loose injector fittings were spitting fuel so I thought Bingo! air in the line was all it was. I tightened up the fittings and topped off the radiator looking but bubbles from a blown head gasket......... None! We let the machine idle for a bit and it sounded fine with the tightened injector lines. I looked for leaks and the machine kept running so I figured I would push some dirt around for a while to warm the engine up so I could change the oil. Ran about 10 minutes at an easy pace and checked temperatures. Radiator and head were both warm but not hot. Ran the machine for another 30 minutes and still not hot so I decided to park next to the generator and shut it off. Now if you remember a few posts ago, the solenoid at the injector pump would cycle, but I didn't know what was off and what was on. Because it pulled in with the key on, I figured that was on. But...... when I looked at the machine the before I bought it, it would not shut off when you turned the key off. To shut it down you put it in 3rd gear and let the clutch out with the brake on. That's what the previous owner showed me and said he's done that "for a while". So I parked next to the generator and put it in neutral so I could look at the injector pump when I turned the key off to see what would happen. I turned the key off and the darn thing quit! The 24v solenoid energized and "pulled in" when I shut the key off and the engine quit immediately. Amazed, I wondered what caused that because I thought pulling in would let the fuel flow. When troubleshooting and turning the key ON, the solenoid would pull IN! Now, about 30 seconds after I turn the key off, the dang solenoid pushed out! While I contemplated that, I pulled the engine belly pan (only because a big stick was jammed up in the oil drain hole and I couldn't get it out) and changed the oil. The copy of the operators manual I found said it takes 1.8 gal of oil. I drained out 2.5 gal.... I put 2 gal back in and it read 1/2 between Add & Full. So, to see if it would fire again, I watched the injector pump and turned the key 1 notch and the solenoid pulled in. That shut the fuel off last time, so I turned the key off. Now, when I turned the machine off before, I turned the key off and the solenoid pulled in. But, after about 30 seconds, it pushed back out. Hmmm, must be on a relay..... So this time I turned the key 1 notch and the solenoid pulled in, I waited....... 30 seconds later it let back out and I turned the key to "start" and Bingo! fired right up. So somewhere along the line, the fuel shut off solenoid started working and that was the problem all along. Apparently, when you go to start the machine, there is a built in time delay while the glow plugs get hot, shuts off the fuel, and then lets you start. Imagine that! I'm real glad it wasn't a head gasket....... Thanks every one! H
Hmc, I'm glad to hear that you were able to restart your machine with a little work on the fuel system. Solenoids first start to fail when they get warm, now that you know the start and stop positions you will have a better idea of whats happening. Now your having some extra oil, and being short coolant still worries me. "I put about half a gallon of antifreeze in" - surprising that that was the same amount that the oil was over. Keep a good eye on both of them. I've lost a head gasket in a 4-390t deere motor that was in a 550g dozer, it didn't blow bubbles, the coolant just had an oily film on it, and the machine would overheat. Your over heat issue could have been caused by low coolant, and high work load, and the previous owner could have overfilled the oil, so it may not be an issue, but still check all the fluids very frequently. I don't mean to check everything right after a 15 minute break but if it sets long enough to cool down, and definatly before each days use.
You mentioned trying to pull stumps with an 8N. Be very, very careful with that. A lot of people have died on those darned things doing that, more have died pulling logs. At 2300 or so pounds the butt of a log catches in the dirt or a root they can flip on you in the blink of an eye. I have 2 of them that are in constant use. Rick
Hey All, Yea, those little tractors can get you in big trouble! I didn't see any signs of water in the oil at all and ran it pretty good yesterday with no overheating. I'll definitely keep an eye on things, don't need any problems that can be prevented. Next is changing oil in the hydraulics, gear box and finals. Plus check for pins & bushings and find someone to flush the radiator.
Something to consider: A few years ago my dad bought a basket case JD450C dozer for next to nothing. We put a new undercarriage under it. It came with a backhoe attachment (which we won't ever use, because we have a JD310 backhoe), and the 450C had the option of a bucket in the trackloader configuration... If you were to find a 450C with either the loader bucket or blade, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to find the other attachment. And I may just know where you could get a backhoe attachment for it.