Yair . . . In have had nothing to do with power angle and tilt but yesterday I used up a bit of data watching various clips of little PAT equipped jiggers pushing trees. Those blades are apparently pretty tough as some of the operators were giving them a hard time tilted and angled digging cutting roots . . . none of the tractors I saw had a ripper. Anyway the operators would get the roots cut and then they would straighten the blade and have a go at tipping the tree out. I would just point out that it would be more effective to leave the blade angled and push with the top corner In the "old days" if we didn't have a tree pusher we always ran blades angled for pushing as obviously (or maybe not so obviously) the top corner when angled gives extra height and, if not at full lift puts the tractor back a bit, perhaps on firmer ground not disturbed by digging. You put the corner tip right in the centre of the tree and, if it is leaning you push from that side if possible. Just watch a leaning tree if still unable to push it and screw sideways as you disengage as they can follow you when backing off. Take care for your own and the machines safety, apply power gently...definitely none of that charging stuff. Cheers
They aren't that tough, Scrub. A couple of years ago I was rooting out some pines with a six-way and the way the blade flexed it wouldn't be my weapon of choice if there was a semi-U available. Those angle Rams aren't the most substantial, either. To me a lot of new medium dozers seem to get specced with a six way and then Spend most of their lives on work where a semi-U would be far more efficient.
I've used one on a rental, knocked down some big mesquites with a jd 850 doing exactly what you said..angle blade and hit em high
I recently had the job of diagnosing why a D6 PAT hi track wouldn't hold angle position. I could tell it was pushing one way but was soft on the other. I pulled the suspected cylinder rod loose and sure enough, the operator had pulled the nut and threads clean off the end of the rod. $1500 later they were back in business. I later found out that the op had been pushing a stump with the opposite corner and the pull pressure is what pulled the failed cylinder piston off.
Power angle tilt blades are handy for fine grading in the dirt . Not knocking around in the rough slamming trees or on a rock ledge . I don't have one & doubt that we ever will . For the rough stuff proper dozer with outer push arms to the blade is best . We finish up & fine grade behind the dozer with a farm tractor & box blade or skid loader . Would never take a PAT blade in to a clearing job as we would break it off the tractor the first day Mate .
The guy that says the nut came off the threaded end..lmfao...that b.s...it's possible, but more often then not you'll shear a pin or pop a weak line..you'll be ok..trust me in s. Tx all we have is pat blades and they work fine..I've been dozing for 15 years and like them better than side mount
Yair . . . Gotcha fellers, all I was pointing out is that you can get some extra height pushing with the corner of an angle blade . . . if the manufacturers can't build an assembly to take that occasionally it does not say much for the design. Cheers.
Yeah, when I'd spent as long on equipment as you, I'd seen it all as well. 25 years further on I realise that I haven't, so I'm not so quick to call bs on someone else's experiences. I've known the nut to work loose inside Rams as well, not just on dozers, and once they work loose, they can strip, which is probably what happened on wrwtexan's machine. Off the back of your post, do the D9's, 10's and 11's in south Texas have pat blades as well?
: They'll stand that, Scrub, they're just garbage at shearing roots compared to outside push arms. Mind you, if all you're knocking down is tumbleweed or cactuses.......
In the past 40 years of dozing and grubbing trees. Mostly used straight or semi-u, which were more heavy duty. Would even torque the ball off the tilt cylinder on occasion. The Pat blades were very handy, but were built lighter, and would eventually show the abuse, in worn pins and bushings. Or blown hoses.
I always push trees with the center of PAT blades. The extra height isn't worth the extra leverage on the tilty-bits, at least for me. I've never run a dozer with an outside c-frame, but i'd probably still push with the center. If i really need more height i doze a ramp, takes time and space, but it works. I like to push into trees at about 90% blade height and lift after it bites.
Yair . . . I was just trying to be helpful. If folks don't understand that's okay. . . a gentle prod with the corner of a tilted blade occasionally will be easier on the tractor than the farting around I saw on a couple of you tube clips. Cheers.
That's the best way to do the rough work with a PAT blade hvy 1 ton , the center of the blade is the toughest spot on it when full hogging . Have to back off & use some judgment when pushing on the end bits .
Dig out trees/stumps all the time with mine. Don't break often but when it does-I fix it. Some of us have to make do with what we have..........
Spot on Scrub ! Angle & tilt the 6 way blade to push taller on the tree to gain a little advantage pushing it over .:thumbsup
Aint that the truth , gotta knock them out with what ya got on job site .
Thanks for the trash talk StxRancher! I was merely adding to this discussion with what I had seen happen. You want pics? I was told by the manager that the inexperienced operator was trying to push a stump with the opposite corner, heard a loud pop and then it wouldn't hold position. They had started to take the valve apart before calling me. My apologies though, as it was a bolted on piston and it pulled the bolt out of the end of the rod, threads and all.
I pulled the bolt and part of the threads out on the stick cylinder on my 931b backhoe. I think the bolt was a little loose and when I went over a little hill the bucket hit it and I heard a pop. No stick cylinder after that. The shop wanted to make a new rod and weld the old eye on the old rod since the cylinder had a very slight bend(less than 1/16"). They said they could straighten it but would have to polish it up after. I suggested drilling the piston bigger and re-tapping the rod for the next bigger size of bolt. That's what they did and it saved about $200. It was still about $1300 by the time they were done. I don't think it needed to be polished as much as they said but what can you do. I think they charged 1 1/2 hours for polishing the rod at $130/hr.
Don't worry, mate, you've just kicked off some healthy discussion. You are right, with the blade corner lifted and angled you can gain a bit of height, that's how I do it when I have to. One weakness with the Cat pat blades is the centre pivot bearing, which they've recently redesigned - be interested to hear of people's experiences with this new bearing. It looks stronger.
Yair . . . Thanks ih100. I see things going on in the real world and on the tube and I sometimes think some of the old tried and proven methods have been forgotten or perhaps never known. Cheers
Wrwtexan, no trash talking here...look in the mirror
This assuming their is no hoe onsite, ,,, much faster and more efficient with a hoe, as well as safer and disturbs the site less than building ramps,,,, but either way, I have used both semi u and pat blades for jobs. You use the tools you have available to get it done. . I agree the sound of a pat creaking when pushing on a tree makes me cringe a bit. However the blade on my D5M would probably take more abuse than the gutless powerplant in it could ever put on it. ..
Your D5M must have had an issue with the engine. The same power plant is used in the 6N and 963 which are considerably heavier machines , the 63 being the heaviest. I felt like the 63C was underpowered. The 5M I had seemed to have plenty of power as well as the 953C which is heavier than a 5M. If you got rid of it that quick in the mid 40s you did good. Someone else's problem now. I've cleared a lot with a VPAT , push in the center of the blade spreads the stress.
If it had an issue with the engine, I didn't know it. It always ran like that ever since I got it. I wouldn't sell something to anyone if there was any issues with it. At under 5000 hours in excellent shape, if it wasn't with 40s then CAT must not have that great of resale. I assume the engine was capable of more output but cat had it detuned too much.