My first youtube ! Whatcha think? Low on power & smoke. A4-236 Perkins, 1990 model. Exhaust stack is off as it goes through the hood. Thanks for your thoughts, Joe H
The white smoke leads me to think you have an air leak in a fuel suction line. Check for that first. If the tank is higher than the pump, look for wet/damp spots on the lines when the engine isn't running.
What's the history of this thing? You could try loosening the injector lines at the injector one at a time with it running and see if any of them make the smoke go away or drop a bunch, and/or don't affect the sound of the engine as much as the other injectors do.
Looks to be a bad injector possibly. Make sure you don't have an air restriction on the air intake system also. Is this engine turbocharged?
All injectors respond the same, don't see any fuel leaks between tank and injector pump. Air filters fairly new. Non turbo. How would an air leak cause the smoke? Diesel dummy here. Joe H
Air will cause the injection timing etc. to be messed up and it will misfire, resulting in unburned fuel going out the exhaust. How many hours? how long have you had it? how many hours have you put on it? how long has it been acting like this?
Hour meter says 2200+ I've had it about 6 years, put a couple hundred on it. Always smoked but got worse both smoke and low power. Used to belong to an Indian reservation, used and abused? Turns over unevenly like a low cyl. I'm guessing hours are right as it still has one OE rear tire, a made in England Goodyear. Unless they used to import them? Joe H
Was this machine sitting long time? Could be fuel quality issue.
If it’s cranks unevenly than check the cylinder compression.
Check the blowby on a cold day, you'll see water vapor puffing which is expected, but you want to see if it blows a big puff in time with the engine, and also if it's blowing any oil mist out with the blowby gasses. comparing to another engine is the best way to judge blowby. Probably time to pull the injectors, get them checked, test the compression. You could try playing with the timing, and check the fuel pressure. There's a screen inside the inlet on the injection pump, check that after you've checked the fuel pressure, filter.
Has not been sitting, fuel is fresh. Blow by is minimal. Probably time to pull the head and have a look see. Sounds like fun. Maybe I can be this month's entertainment asking for help & then ignoring the advice. 30+ years a mechanic, but Jags not diesels. Joe H
You can try and use “cylinder leak down tester” try to adapt it to glow plug threads. Got to time every cylinder for that though.
No glow plugs. Pulled the head, ton of fun. Bore looks good, these valves not so good. Looks like sucking a little oil down the valve guides. Joe H
Perkins parts where? Google gives me dozens of so far useless links, but no OE parts that show what I want. Except this one https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/valve-train-components-for-perkins-4236-engines They list 5 different intake valves from $10 to $43. All are Perkins OE but no info as to what they are, all are for a 4.236 engine. Found a couple of kits cheap, valves, springs, guides, keepers for around $100 so I'm guessing China. Better OE than Chinee he said. Help ! Joe H
Like most manuf. Perkins goes off of engine SERIAL numbers.. gotta have that to get the right parts. THEN call the dealer parts counter.
Nearest dealer is about 200 miles. Last time we talked the parts guy told me they really don't want to know about 1990 backhoes. Sent the serial number with a request for quote to dieselpartsdirect, see what they say. Maybe I should send the pump off to the guy with the invisible new shop and have it looked at as long as I have it apart? Joe H
If you are talking about thepumpguy on the forums I would suggest talking with him, or who ever you might be sending it to, before starting to remove it. Some times a little information up front can save hours of trouble latter on when installing rebuilt pump.
That's the guy, still waiting for a picture of the new shop though. How do I send him an email? Or is that the "Start a conversation" thingee? Joe H Edit - found his email with the search thing. Magic
I thought he put up some pics of the plywood painted.... unless I'm thinking of a different shop...
Is there an Agco/** dealer near you? They would have Perkins parts or could get them.
I'm here.. just click on my name to "start a conv" or just put @ a o l dot com after my screen name in your home mail server.
More stuff that needs fixing, hoses to steering. 4 hoses, all look tired and as they are cleverly hidden behind the fuel tank out they come. 10PM last night I ordered from discounthydraulichose.com, just got an email with tracking number for my hoses. In the mail in 12 hours. Joe H
Always find it amazing that people in other countrys can do searches and find stuff where people in that country struggle . ok googled and found this https://www.ebay.com/str/DIESELREMANANDPARTS/PARTS/_i.html?_storecat=18719646017 Caterpillar owns perkins now , so right spare parts person at a cat dealer may be able to help
That link leads to another web site with no parts listed. Contact them for prices ect. Dozens of sites like that, not what I want. No Cat dealer local either, I'm in the booonies. Found what I need, it's all on the way. Pump went to thepumpguy this morning so all is well at the moment. Joe H
PM me the full engine number and i'ii see if I can dig out the valve p/n's
Thanks, but found them. These guys had them, https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/valve-train-components-for-perkins-4236-engines just no place on their site to enter the engine number. Contacted then and found they had everything but the intakes, had to come from England for an another $45. Found them on Ebay, AE brand. I've used AE valves in Jags for 30 years with no problems so should work for Perkins (I hope). Joe H
Know you found good evidence of failures BUT when you crank it back up and it still smokes change your intake injector, hopefully you can get a good new one.
I've never seen a bad intake heater/glow plug / thermo-start ,blow white smoke.. Its & I hesitate to say this, "always" black.. freight train black.!!! THATS been "my" experience anyway.. BUT theres always a first.. Keep us posted..
pumpguy I know you are the expert, respectfully. that been said can show you my forklift if i knew how to load video, did the same thing more than once. new injectors dont last that long, need another supplier than perkins. been owning cat forklift for about a dozen years.
Thanks for that.. I don't mean to second guess anyones experience.. its just that "I've" never seen it.. I'm not doubting u 1 bit.. Do u think that maybe u have electrical problems that are toasting the plug?? maybe a residual feed from the keys switch?? I'm just throwin things out there.. I'm sure u checked seeing its happened more than once.?? Its a strange problem to have.. Wait a minute.. are we talking about INJECTORS or the cold start glow plug that screws into the intake??
cuz if we're talkin about INJECTORS that go in the head & connect to the injection pump.. I can rebuild them, NOT using Perkins parts.
cold start glow plug screwed into the intake with diesel line attatched is what im talking about. even ran engine with injector out, engine ran away, turned switch off and engine reved so high, didnt know which way to run. ran to the other side of engine and saw diesel pouring into intake, moved line away and engine stopped. have been around other run aways before but i think this was the first one i caused.
I saw no raw fuel in the intake from that cold startit gizmo. Far as I know it doesn't work at all. Pump sure looks nice pumpguy, but it ain't even close to running. Still waiting for parts, those dieselpartdirect guys didn't ship for 3 or 4 days and sent it UPS ground. Something that would easily have gone priority mail for $8 & 3 days cost $12+ and taking a week. I'll let you know when it makes smoke again. Joe H PS, thanks for the $20 change, did my check bounce yet?
LMAO
Make sure you glue it to a brick so it don't bounce too high!
Caterpillar sold Perkins a bit ago. You might have pulled up an older page.
Parts came yesterday, all OE Perkins. Project on hold, my well died. Pump putting out a trickle for a bit & then shuts down when sucking air. Hope to pull pump today. Bet this pump cost more than injector pump rebuild. Joe H
I had mine "done" & he jammed it in w/ no lube. Lol.. I had NO IDEA HOW to do it but after watching them, I coulda done it in my sleep.. & saved 1400.00.. What REALLY pizzed me off was I looked up the cost of a pump & it was somewhere less of 200.00 & 10.00 in pvc pipe..
No they didn't. Don't know where that came from, the factory is five miles from home and they're still investing in upgrading the factory and the research and development side.
No grease Pilgrim. $1400, sounds like what it would cost to R&R the injection pump and go through it? Rocket science it ain't, think I have figured out how to do it. Got to town & collected some needed pieces for pump pulling, did no pulling today. Looked at my new Perkins valves, stuck them in the head and determined guides are worn. So, look in factory shop manual re replacing guides. Lo & behold, not a word about it. Manual sez "replace valves with oversize stems" available in 2 sizes. ***? Whoever heard of that? Look in factory parts book, not a peep about any oversize valves. Got 1 number for intake valves & 1 number for exhaust valves. Does however list valve guides. So guessing I need to look for those next. This ain't good. Tomorrow pull pump if my cludge idea works, order guides too.
Don't know about Perkins but oversized valves while not common do exist for some engines A close look at your head should make it easy to determine if it has replaceable guides. A quick Google search showed these: https://www.ebay.com/i/282885657370?chn=ps There are others too!
Pumpguy, called Johnny at Superior Diesel. First question was NOT "what's the serial # " but "What state was I in?" Says he can't sell out of state. Joe H
OH, dam.. I forgot about THAT.. Perkins is a REAL STICKLER about that.. NO crossing lines..
Caterpillar to Sell Majority Stake of Logistics Business to Platinum ... https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304203604577396360660089078 Similar May 10, 2012 - Caterpillar plans to sell a 65% stake in its logistics business, which it values at ... for engine businesses owned by Caterpillar , including Perkins engines, Solar turbine ... Caterpillar will continue to operate the distribution for its …
That is 7 years old. Can you put the unedited quote in, I"m not subbing to WSJ just to read the one article, but it looks like it refers to the logistics side which supports the engine businesses. Anyway, Cat still owns Perkins and Solar.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/caterpillar-sells-65-stake-in-logistics-business-for-750m
Thanks BV, that clarifies things. I can see where the misunderstanding comes from, but it does just refer to Cat Logistics. Perkins isn't, and wasn't up for grabs.
This thing is pissing me off. Finally got back to it & more mystery stuff. Injectors have a copper seal washer in the bore. Got new ones in the head set. Start cleaning off the injectors and find this. 2 injectors have 2, 1 has only 1 & 1 has none. They're about .050 thick, so 1/10". I didn't see them until the head was on so don't know what they'd look like installed, but the injector tip would be be up inside the bore. The sealing washer in the kit match the old ones, about .020 thick. So what the hell are these doing? And why? Thinking they shouldn't be there, repair manual says nothing about these, only the sealing washers.
Holy ****.. I think u found your rough running problem.!! Doubling up the washers changes the timing drastically on the individual cylinders.!!! For every .008-.010" it equals 1* of timing.. so u can imagine the thickness of the washer changing the timing. I've seen this before.. that thing "hammered" so loud u woulda thought it was coming apart.. ONLY use 1 washer.. Glad u found it..
Someone years back that worked on it never checked to make sure all washers were removed from head before in stalling new injectors. Found the same on a DT 466 before. And {over sized vale stems were common for rebuilders years back}. Most of Fords reman gas engines came with over sized valve stems. Cheaper to just ream the guides than replace them.
I have an old steel inj. line about 6", that I sliced down the middle.. & insert a piece of ScotchBrite pad & using a drill motor, run the pad up & down the inj. tube while spinning the drill.. it gets the tube very clean.. Then a quick inspection w/ a mirror & your off to the race's.. I like to put the gasket ON the injector before I insert it in the head.. a small dab of vasoline will do the trick..
Seen this 1000 times.
Damn, I'm getting stupider. I have one of those but I made it from solid rod. I think I even know where it is. So, back together with single thin washer from kit. Gotta find some injector seals today, another thing I don't have and can't find on line. As many engines as Perkins made the parts are like hen's teeth.
Pumpguy, if I had 2 of those washers on 2 injectors it's changing the timing 10º ? And 1 with just 1 = 5º ? And one had none so timing was right? Pump was bad, couple burnt valves & this? Hope it runs a little better if I ever get it back together. Joe H
NO.. your SUPPOSED TO USE 1 WASHER.. All that timing engineering stuff is already figured in.. SEE POST # 50..