Okay, I admit that I'm getting desperate for some advice! I'm new to this and want to benefit from the forums experience before I purchase. As many of you know, I am currently in the process of buying a 250 hr. Tak TL230 with a 76" toothed bucket. With this purchase, I negotiated an option that I could buy any Blue Diamond attachments for this machine at dealer cost. I have decided on the Blue Diamond 72" open brush cutter. I am considering a 72" or 78" toothed 4 in 1 bucket. Should I decide to go with the 4 in 1 toothed bucket, I can return the 76" toothed bucket and get an $840 credit. I am also looking at getting a 72" or 78" rock grapple. I would appreciate input on what I should buy. Please respond immediately, cause I have to let the rep know by Monday morning. Btw, here's a little background. I have never used a 4 in 1 bucket, I own a farm with lots of rock, I am constantly maintaining roads and have plans to build a new road into the back of my property o a new track of land I am purchasing. Also, I have the opportunity to buy an extended protection plan, whose cost can be seen in this thread post #71 : Please leave your input! 1) Do you think the TL 230 can handle the larger buckets? 2) Do you suggest another versatile attachment? 3) Have any of you bought an extended warranty and was it worth it? 4) Any other suggestions that I'moverlooking.
I cant be much help with most of the questions but I find a 4/1 with teeth for dirt work to be invaluable. They can take a good amount of abuse, just watch biting off to one side or in the middle, you may tweak it. Good luck.
Thanks for your response. What size machine do you use one on?
Most of my time with the 4/1 is on backhoes. On one job i was using a bobcat 863 wheeled grading a small lot I was able to bite the rebar sticking out of the old foundations pull it out and backfill and grade. Any time I get on a machine without a 4/1 I feel lost.
they look extremely versatile. I was, initially going to keep the 76" toothed bucket and get a smooth edge 4 in 1, but my wife asked why I couldn't get a toothed 4 in 1. I didn't have a good answer for that question and after looking on youtube we found lots of videos of people using the toothed ones. I've used a 67" toothed bucket on a 773 Bobcat for years, so I think the bigger bucket sizes are doable on this TL230. Thanks again for your response.
I run a Bobcat 863 with a 73 inch toothed bucket... I have used it to dig ponds , take down trees...including some decent sized pines and sweetgums....good tough bucket. Is the tl230 a tracked machine? If so...what type of rock do You have....sharp,jagged rocks will rip the tracks up in no time flat. Good luck.
I use a toothed 4n1 bucket on my Ctl 60 every day. I never change buckets. As said before , " invaluable "
Mr. Ron, the TL230 is a track machine. When I bought this property it had about 30 ac that were clear cut. We have popped the stumps and root raked the area. There are lots of rock, still, in the roots of the stumps and scattered across the ground. Most the rock is flat 2-3 in thick. Thought I could use it to skim the land and burned stump piles for rocks and as a grapple for brush. Only thing I'm not sure of is if it opens as far as a root grapple. dirtmonkey, you've sold me on the 4 in 1. I am planning on having them add teeth to it and they can keep this 76" toothed bucket, in lieu of a $840 discount off the total. What size bucket are you using and what horsepower is the CTL60?
i have a 4in1, a demo grapple, a smooth 72" bucket, and a root grapple, among other attachments for my case 70xt. first off, you want to be just slightly wider than your tires/tracks. the reason for this is the attachment shields your track/tires from impacting trees or other objects. it also blades off a flat area for you to drive while you are setting grade doing finish work. so if you are 72" wide like me, get a 78" 4in1, and a 78" grapple. the smooth bucket only needs to be as wide as yours tracks, so you can see the corner of your bucket easier, and get into the tight areas with ease. on the tooth subject, i would put the teeth on the 4in1. i would not use a 4in1 as my primary bucket due to cost and wear. if you need a regular bucket, use your factory one without teeth with a smooth edge. if you something a bit more destructive, get the 4in1 with teeth on it. after that get the grapple for the really ugly stuff. i have a contractor friend that i subcontracted with for 8 years. we built house pads for the chickasaw nation. he has a 410d deere backhoe with a factory 4in1. he loves it and used it almost every day. but well before the 410d had the 6000 hours on it now, we had wear problems with the 4in1. so i wouldnt nessacerily choose a 4in1 as my primary bucket on a skid steer due to cost and weight. another debate to discuss is the 4in1 versus a grapple. do you need/want both? yes. is this an expensive decision? yes. a grapple will do things that a 4in1 wont do and vise versa. i have both and love using each one when applied to the right task. i use my grapple for picking up loose bulky items like wood, concrete and trash. but my grapple will not pinch a tree or root and pull it out of a fence row like my 4in1 does. i pull 3-6" trees with my 4in1 and leave the fence standing. both are invaluable, you wont know until you own both and try them out. as far as your machine handling the wider buckets, my 7000lb 85hp case 70xt with 2000lb. ROC handles a 73" smooth edge dirt bucket, a blue diamond 78" root grapple, 80" midwestern 4in1, and a loflin 72" (solid floor)demo grapple just fine. i have never used my OTT yet. post pics when you get it all together!!
I'm using a 66" bucket by preference for what I do. The Ctl 60 is billed as 67 hp. I also prefer flush mount shanks and teeth.
Thanks to both you Okies! My TL230 is 62' wide according to the brochure. It has a ROC of 2,149 lbs. with the counter weight kit. Bucket and lift breakout forces are 6,700 lbs and some change. They delivered the machine with a 67" bucket which didn't hold squat, thus the swap for the 76" one. I had to bury a horse Friday and the machine performed well with the 76" bucket backing out a 45 degree incline. I have 67" smooth and 66" toothed buckets for my Bobcat 773. If I keep this 76" toothed bucket for more "destructive work", I will sell the 66" toothed bucket to offset the cost and then sell the Bobcat with the smooth bucket (I'm not crazy about that smooth bucket cause the back is really pitched forward/slanted where the quick attach mount). This will leave me with no smooth bucket for back dragging. I guess that is what the 4 in 1 is for, though. Forgot to add that the TL230 is rated at 71 gross hp and 182 ft-lb torque @ 1600 rpm
you can back drag with a 4in1 but sometimes the clamshell will chatter and move. and yes my 4in1 is new with no slack. my experience with skid steers is limited, but i just cant advocate using a 4in1 for everything all of the time. maybe i just think too much of my stuff and dont want to wear it out. another thing to consider is how am i going to haul all of this junk in one trip? i recently bought a 24' bumper pull with 2 7k axles. my old 16' bumper just couldnt do it anymore. keep in mind that you will probably want to haul 3 attachments at a time to do most jobs. that my 2 cents worth.
I have never used a 4 in 1. Like mentioned I would try and always get a bucket several inches wider than the tracks on the machine regardless of type of bucket. I like using the Rezloh edge on a regular bucket as a toothed bucket. You can google Rezloh and see what it looks like. I run several different types of dirt buckets, a HD grapple with a solid bottom made by Virnig, and a Saber Tooth bucket by Quick Attach. I can cover everything with this set up. As to the extended warranty, there can be some value with them as you can pretty much plan on a fixed repair budget (except for things you break that are your fault). The biggest issues I see with TK equipment is electronic, don't see as much issue with anything else.
Thanks KSSS. I read in older thread where you had mentioned the Rezlo, so I checked into it and watched the video. Why do you prefer them over the flush mounted teeth? The additional cost of the toothed bucket is $200 vs, $900 for the Rezlo Edge. Also, do you think the TL230 can handle the 78" rock grapple? I know those 4 in 1 buckets are heavier, so I think that I will go with the 72" 4 in 1, even though my TL will have the counter weight kit.
I run a Cat 242 which is ROC of 2000#. I recently picked up a used CAT 72" 4N1 planning on using it as my main bucket. What I didn't allow for is the fact that the 4n1 is 400# heavier, and I know it when moving gravel, etc. I had planned on "toothing" my regular 72" bucket, but rethinking that now. Like you, have seen that Rezloh stuff, but can't talk myself into the check. By the way- I have a 72" root grapple. Seldom use it for roots, but have moved more brush and large rocks than I can recall. Width probably isn't a big factor, just depends on how heavy you load it up. A really handy device. Would buy again in a heartbeat for my use around the farm.
Thanks RT. I, too, am using all this equipment on a farm. The extra weight in that 4 in 1 has me leaning to the 72" version, it weighs in at 908 lbs vs. 979 lbs. for the 78", both these weights represent untoothed buckets. At 72" it is still 10" wider than my TL230 tracks and if I use it to load clay into my dump truck it will get pretty heavy. I am leaning to the toothed version, as well for an extra couple hundred bucks. I'm not sure how the counter weight kit translate to real world, seat of the pants use. It's just 350lbs. and increases the ROC to 2149. I wish I understood this better. For instance, does this mean that the machine with the counter weights can operate with a 78" bucket the same as a stock machine with a 67" bucket? However, I think I will go with the 78" Extreme 1083 lb. Rock Bucket for 2 reasons. 1) It has the curved side panels like the root grapple, where the standard and heavy classed rock buckets have straight side panels. It's tines are 3" apart vs. 8" on the root grapple. 2) The rock grapple's bottom is flat like a bucket. I plan to use it to prep new ground for seed by using the float switch to skim the ground and pick up the rocks. They won't be heavy and the extra 6" width will help me cover more ground in a pass. It will be fine for brush and when I'm removing fallen trees, I'll, just, cut them up in shorter sections, so I don't overload the machine.
I have never paid full retail for a Rezloh edge. Like everything else, msrp is a starting point. I like it because it aids in digging projects like a toothed bucket, but it allows you to back drag smooth. I also use it to scarify the ground. It just adds a lot of versatility.
A few thoughts on the Rezloh edge from my end. I demo'd one on my 95 many years ago. At times we put in quite a few cattleguards here in ranch country that require excavation for the bases. In very hard ground the Rezloh just would not dig, and was about as effective as a smooth bucket. If you intent to dig in very hard soils you could be unsatisfied, especially factoring in what they charge for it. When I spoke with the dealer and told him how poorly the Rezloh performed, he said it really just is a landscaping tool. It does do a nice job of backdragging.
I have a rock (or skeleton) bucket without a grapple. Even if it had a grapple, I'd use my root grapple 10 times more. The curvy bottom tines allow themselves to be gently rocked under a large object better than the flat. Also- my clumpy soil here won't fall through the skeleton bucket. The rock bucket has a notch on the end of the teeth- makes sliding out harder too. Now- I had to beef up my root bucket not long after I got it. It was a no-name Pirhana off of EBay and I was twisting the tines. A few pounds of steel in the proper places alleviated that issue.
Its not as aggressive as a dedicated tooth bucket, but its certainly better than a solid cutting edge. I think its a good compromise between the two.
Ok, the rains subsided and I went out and loaded the 76" bucket with some clay. The machine handled it fine and it doesn't, even, have the counter weight kit on , yet. I have to admit, I'm pretty confused on what attachments and sizes to purchase. I dodged a bullet today, as my sales rep was busy and we just played phone tag today. Having never used a 4 in 1 bucket makes it hard to just sink all the eggs into that basket. Using the Tak today,i found myself needing a smooth bucket so I detached the toothed bucket and went to pick up my Bobcat's smooth bucket and it won't fit due to a welded brace. The 4 in 1 might have fit the bill, but I don't know that, yet. RT, how far apart are your tines on that rock bucket? I have a bunch of stump piles that we are going to burn. The roots are loaded with that slate type rock that we have here on Sand Mountain. These stump piles are sitting where we plan to sew down seed for pasture ground. That rock will fall through a root grapples tines. Blue Diamond does make a rock bucket without the grapples that I could get, as well as the root grapple. Just wondering, when you rent an attachment, is their a mixing of hydraulic fluid? Can you bleed the attachment? What if the guy that used said attachment before you had water in his hydraulic fluid?
KSSS, I probably had too high of expectations due to my salesman bragging the Rezlow up as the greatest thing since slices bread. My point to others here on the board being that if you expect to do serious digging in hard soils at some point you are going to need an aggressive tooth bar on a dirt bucket to get anything done. The positive to these SS's is you just keep adding tools to your arsenal as needs grow and the pocket book allows.
If your worried about purchasing the 4/1 can you ask the sales guy if you could demo/or rent it for a day?
My opinion is that on e you have the 4n1 you'll wonder why you never had one before. I have one on my 287 and was able to bolt on top mount teeth and still bolt on the reversible cutting edge, this does two things, adds strength to the cutting edge and allows me to very carefully clean up asphalt surfaces. I don't even own another bucket for it, the thing is just handy as can be. I believe you'll also find the 230 will handle a 78" 4n1 just fine loaded and even better with a weight kit.
Deere, I wish that I could have done this, but they don't have one there at the moment and I need to sew this deal up today. I will be meeting the rep at lunch today. Still am undecided on the size for the toothed 4 in 1, but will get a 78" root grapple and 72" open face brush cutter.
I've had my 4n1 since about 2003. I have over 4k hours on that bucket and loader. I have never once considered the cost a factor. Once you learn how to use this bucket , it is worth it. It is just now to the point of rewelding the clam opening surfaces ( if that made sense ?). I have never regretted owning this bucket. I WILL NOT go with out it. I wil refurbish this bucket and keep it. I use this bucket in residential , light comm , pipeline, and assisting the dozer in clearing and clean up operations. I use it to build house pads , final grades , small ponds , demo , tin horn install , city drive excavation and yes ,even a few basements ! My point is yes there may be a technical trade off as far as weight or capacity etc etc... BUT , it has never been a noticeable factor , not enough to discourage me from ever owning one. There has been a few time I've loaded other attachments thinking ill use them or it will make it easier. They usually just stay on the trailer. Now they collect rust in the yard. The only attachment I really like but don't use as often as I should is the Land plane. I would recommend one if flat surfaces are in your future. If i we're to have one bucket it would be a smooth edge 4n1 with bolt on teeth or a tooth bar ( although heavy ). I'm not trying to discredit or offend the other members experience or opinion. That's my Okie redneck opinion . :my2c
dirtmonkey, you've sold me on the 4 in 1 with teeth. :drinkup Tags, thanks for your response. Do you have any experience with the TL230 and 78" bucket?
The 230 is the same size as my Ctl 60. Now this is my experience and opinion but I think a 78 " bucket is to much. I would stick anything from 66 to 72. I think 78 will " gut " the motor too much. Especially if you're doing heavy digging. I quess it depends on you're operating technique. My belief is pick a bucket that's only an inch or two bigger than your tracks on each side . Less bucket resistance pushing through the ground and more in line with your tracks. Again just :my2c
Fyi. The Tak brochure gives a recommend bucket width of 67.5 inches
You are correct sir, that is the size bucket they delivered it with, but believe me that is not enough bucket. I am getting the 72", toothed, 4 in 1 bucket and the 76" Bradco / Takeuchi GP bucket with a cutting edge and the side cutters. I have been using the 76" toothed version and the TL230 handles it well. Another factor in this decision is that I have a 66" bucket with bolt on teeth and a 66" smooth bucket, already on the farm, that I use on the Bobcat 773. The plan is to use the 4 in 1 the majority of the time, the 66" toothed bucket for abusive tasks, and the cutting edge bucket for cleaning out horse stalls and other less abusive chores where teeth are not needed. I will sell the 66" smooth bucket with the Bobcat. I, also, went with the 78" Extreme Root Grapple for brush and short logs. I plan to figure a way to fixate some fencing, mesh, or expanded metal in the bottom and the back of it for the rock duties that, hopefully, will be brief and short lived. I, also, decided on the 72" Open Face Brush Cutter over the enclosed one, because I can keep it lower to the ground in clearing the sapplings and small trees I have coming up. I am, seriously, considering adding an Extreme Auger with a 9" bit to the package. I have till tomorrow to make this decision. Thanks to all for your help and opinions! :drinkup If you have any suggestions on the Auger and bit size for build fences and a riding arena, please chime in. I'll be using 6" posts for the fencing,except at the corners and 8" cedar posts on the arena. If I decide to build a pole barn, then I'll rent or borrow a bigger bit. I'll post pics once all these attachments get here.
DJ- sorry for the delay, been out of pocket. Probably all committed by now, but for what it is worth my root grapple tines are about 8" apart. My rock bucket is a Blue Diamond, where the spacing is probably 2" or so. With the poor soil quality here I can never get soil to fall through the 2" openings, so I find I never use that bucket. My intentions were that I could use it like a screen. Best to you- and do update us on what you get. Good long holiday wekend coming up to play with the new toys!
Update on Attachments Well fellas, I have received most my Blue Diamond attachments. The 72" Extreme Open Brush Cutter, the Extreme Root Grapple and the Extreme Auger with a 9" bit have arrived. I'm still waiting on my 4 in 1 toothed bucket. I used the cutter today for the first time. I am happy with it's performance, but need to lern how to stay with the contour of the ground better, as I put the blades in the dirt a bit. Not bad, but enough to make me say a dirty word or two Haven't, really, used the auger or root grapple yet, but hope to do that this weekend. Any advice on using that cutter is welcomed.
Had a thought about the float function. Would that work using the cutter to help me stay at the same level from the ground? It works great with a bucket, but not sure if it is applicable with the cutter. TIA, Duke
bold^ I totally agree. I would never own a skider without a root grapple. I've never tried a rock grapple so can't really comment on that but the way you can rake the ground with the root grapple is indispensable - and the ability to leave the dirty behind is big. For my 2 cents, if I could only have two attachments they'd be a smooth bucket and a root grapple. But then, I already have a 4 in 1 on my CAT backhoe. Speaking of that, sometimes I pull steel t-posts with it. You have to be very, very careful doing that as the clamshell will snap t-posts in two before you know it. I still can't believe it'll do that. I'd hat to get my pecker caught in there. LOL That reminds me of an accident here a few years ago. Sorry if this grosses anyone out - chock it up to experience. A guy was standing at the back of a dump truck and there was an unoccupied wheel loader behind him - he wasn't facing it and there was background noise. Do you see where this is going? Yep, loader rolled into him pinning him against the truck and cut both legs off at the knees. Dude had a great attitude about it though and he gets around in his chair - and he still has his pecker. Be careful out there.
DJ...How about some pics?? And now that you've used your brush cutter, how are you doing on fabricating your mar-guard shield (per another thread of yours)?? StumpyWally
Ron, frightening story. You can never be too careful around machinery. Root grapple will be handy, for sure, but it does let a lot of stuff fall through. I've been debating whether I made a mistake, mainly because it's difficult to even pick up 8 - 10 in logs. I think I'll get better at using it, but the rock grapple, with it's flat bottom would get under stuff easier and wouldn't allow the smaller stuff to fall through. I'm going to try and fixate some square fencing in it and see how it does. StumpyWally, I'll try and get some pics tomorrow. I'm thinking about using a gas shock to force the Marguard with some magnets to close against the grey grab rails. I could hold it out long enough to get the roll down door to close and open the roll down long enough to pop the magnets loose. May cut a piece of pvc in such a way that I can pop it over the other grab rail and use it as the pivot. Just some ideas. Feel free to give your input. Got the 4 in 1 bucket, but they did not send the pilot operated check valve and it needs it, cause the clam shell tends to open up due to bleed back. It, also, was sent with short lines. I can not tilt the bucket, but half way, before banjo stringing the lines. I can not open the bucket and see the leading edge, because I can't tilt it far enough. That sucks!!!
DJ- When I'm using my root grapple to pick up logs, etc. I usually open wide, and roll attachment way forward. This let's me come down over the top of the item, then close jaws and roll back. So the fingers of the jaws are going against the ground under the logs closing towards the machine and trapping the item against the tines. Makes for a cleaner pick than trying to run the bottom tines under something and having it scoot. With a little practice you'll know where the jaw fingers are and won't much more than scrape the surface underneath. You can grab ungodly amounts of brush cuttings that way by squishing a whole pile down & clamping it against the ground.
Stay with the root grapple . The curved tines are excellent for digging out small trees and stumps and the spacing lets the dirt fall through. Good for raking too. Make sure the bucket they send is made specifically for a Takeuchi. Apparently Taks have a different hitch height than the others.
phil.... you are correct. The root grapple and the 4 in1 bucket were sent with short lines, not allowing a full tilt of these attachments, which, definitely, inhibits their use. The lines for the Taks are 18 inches longer. BlueDiamond is sending me the longer lines for the grapple and 4 in 1, as of this morning. The cutter and auger do not need the longer lines, as neither should ever be rotated that far. Don't know where the mix up was, but it's being rectified. Also, I'm staying with the root grapple. I'm going to weld on some nuts to the outside tines, so that I can bolt on some expanded metal in the bottom of the bucket for sifting smaller debris. RT..... I will try to apply these techniques when I get the longer lines, allowing me to roll the grapple "way forward", in order to come from the top, like you suggest. Thanks for the tutorial. Don't hesitate to provide any tips, as I am knew to this stuff. Anyone using a 4 in 1 bucket...... Is it normal for the bucket to drift open due to bleed back? I paid for the pilot check valve but have not received it, yet. It is suppose to cut down on this problem in machines that put out a lower psi. Pictures will be coming, when it stops raining.
DJ ....The difference in the buckets I was referring to was the mounting height of the bucket not the hoses . Have a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlLjvEv1Q8 .
Dang phil, you just ruined my day! I, already, bought the bucket and have it here on my farm. No one, ever, mentioned this at the dealership or at Blue Diamond. If they do make a bucket like this, I'm sure mine is not it because it didn't come with the longer lines, which a bucket built, specifically for a Tak would have had. I'll be giving them a call on Monday. If they don't have a good answer about hitch height, I'll trade it in for something else (maybe the 6-way dozer blade) and go buy this one in the video.
For what its worth DJ, I was speaking with a friend the other night who has run a 6-way blade quite a bit on a New Holland tracked machine. He said that it will do an "okay" job, but was disappointing for the most part. He figures these tracked machines are just to short coupled to effectively push around these blades. I've read this from others on this forum also. They say if you want to run a 6-way, you are better off with an actual dozer. I do hope you get the answer you are looking for from Blue Diamond.