I’ve had an individual approach me about constructing a pond for them. 26 acres, the location was a marsh/lake years ago until they put a county tile in. There is a bank all the way around, 8 feet tall, customer would like to remove 5 feet of dirt on 26 acres. It’s a massive project, and I would be working with another company to complete it. I know how to get the project done, we have the details figured out. The current bottom of the pond, is level within 6” from one side to the other. The dirt is going to be moved 2000 feet and piled. The project location is in Iowa. My question is, what should something like this cost? I’d appreciate any insight on this, thanks!
I don't want to sound negative or discourage you But..... If you have to ask it may be too far outside your wheelhouse. 5 feet on 26 acres is over 200k cubic yards of soil. Lots of variables will determine pricing and with something on this large of a scale, there will be a million chances to get it wrong if you don't already know those answers. Figure out exactly how much of what you have to do, then try to put unit prices to things. Do you have any comparable production numbers from similar projects you've completed?
I’m trying to see if I’m in the ballpark. I’m not blind to the scope of the project. Doesn’t mean it’s outside my wheelhouse. Appreciate your help
$2.5M for the whole deal, not half. That is if you have a hard bottom. All bets are off if it is a bottomless bog.
I would bid it using tracked Steigers pulling tandem pans. Factor how many yards your moving and put a number that includes the subcontract of the guy with the Steigers or rent your machines. There are some industry numbers how many yards you can move in an hour. Those pans typically are around 25 yards per pan give or take. So you could move 50 yards per pull. Pretty impressive. I would then put a number on sculpting the pond, put the numbers together and there you are. It sounds like a fun project. I would jump on that in a second.
Welcome to the Forums Ia966! Glad to have you. Question - What is a "county tile"? Not familiar with the term.
Don't forget $$$ for permitting.
lol missed a decimal point: $250,000
Drain tile. District tile would be a drainage district that has tax powers, like a TIF or other tax district. County tile is a bigger drain tile put in by the county, to provide a deeper outlet to drain better. A big factor is going to be weather and timeline. If you have a dry season to complete this, then it goes easy. If it turns wet and the subsoil is pumping, you could be using an excavator on mats to fill scrapers, or worse. Is the owner willing to put it off a year if it turns wet?
All foreign terms to me as we don't have such down here. A drainage district with tax powers..interesting.
A little over a buck a yard? No thanks. Good way to pay the owner to build his pond. Now at $10 a yard we'd be talking..
Big excavator, 4 or 5 30t-40t haul trucks, a dozer on the other end 35-40 days of work? Maybe my WILD GUESS at equipment rental costs were wrong.
One thing for sure, monthly payments and stop work if they miss
Out west they fight over water, parts of the midwest they fight over getting rid of water: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...l/536632001/&usg=AOvVaw1EK2xrzt67mcyVgqAXGc2B Just read some of Shimmy's old posts, he ditches stuff that has inches per MILE of drainage, I play around with a wet field that has 2% drop and I consider that flat.
Just rough #'s I haven't priced monthly rentals on this sized iron since 2020 so these rates are probably low - 40T artic - $12,000 per month X5 is $60,000 336 hoe - $10,000 per month D6 dozer - $10,000 per month Per month basic rental cost - $80,000 Mob and demob, enviro fees on the rental, rental and sales taxes add another $15,000 Bare rental with mob and taxes - $95,000 for one month. Off-road fuel is somewhere around $4 a gallon for a round number. Burn 400 gals a day assuming 50 gals per piece of iron plus 50 per day cushion and that's $1,600 per day. Assume 20 working day month- Monthly fuel costs - $32,000 So we're at $127,000 for one month and we haven't put butts in the seat or maintained anything then there is overhead and always at the end a profit. My labor burden for an operator with no O&P added is roughly $50 per hour, could be more or less in different parts of the country. So we have 7 operators at 8 hrs per day for a 20 day work month. Labor - $56,000 So now we are at $183,000 but we haven't accounted for licensing, equipment insurance, GL or overhead. WC is included in my #'s above for total labor burden. Rental insurance policy - $5000 rider for the amount of iron insured GL - $5,000 Overhead is 5% of the job - $12,500 which covers accounting, legal, licensing, office supplies, etc. So we're at $205,500 for one month of operation on a $250,000 job that will take more than a month complete. Now some of the rough costs above are fixed for the job but are small compared to adding another month. OP said they have to move the spoils 2,000' which will add to the cycle time of the trucks. Now all my numbers are a WAG as I haven't seen the project or have any idea of the production rates in this soil or the ability of the operators but this project is going to take more than a month and a buck a yard isn't no where near enough. KSS is on the right track to sub it out to pull pans for the bulk work but beware if they want you to provide fuel - been through that before. If you contract to pull pans make them provide their own fuel in the price per CY.
A pull pan contractor wanted you to provide the fuel? LOL! I have never heard of someone trying that. One would assume their cost per hour/cy would include fuel. Those tracked 600 hp Steigers are thirsty I am sure.
Yep. It was one job back in 2007. It wasn't tracked Steigers, they used 8 wheel Case tractors with double pans behind. The cost per yard was cheap and we covered the fuel within budget but I wouldn't do it again as there are too many variables.
Once a wetland, always a wetland. I wouldn't stick a shovel in the ground until I had corps of engineers letter stating the area is non-juristictional. Then the large size of the pond will probably require a engineered dike and corps permit as well. Add in required regular inspections and your customer better have very deep pockets.
Agreed. Vetting the customer's financial ability to pay for the project would be the first on my list for this type of project.
Run Forrest, RUN! Ed
My baseline is $2/yd³ to load the scraper, plus $1/yd³ every 1000' it has to move. That would put this job at $1M to start. ***Maybe*** someone might bid it at $2.50/yd³. But, they probably might be out of business before they finish. We couldn't hardly move dirt for $1 per yard 20 years ago. Sure as hell aren't going to do it for that today with fuel at $4 per gallon. I just finished a 20k yard project a couple weeks ago. My cost for fuel and labor was over $20k, and my Cats run CHEAP.
If you take this project on please keep us updated here. Sounds like a massive and interesting undertaking.
My advise would be to start talking some numbers with the customer before getting too invested. I've been down this road TOO many times! Customers think moving dirt is cheap. Usually around here it comes with the question, "how much for a 5 acre pond?" My response, you can't afford it. They are window shopping. Personally, I think your bid is too low. It's one thing to scrape and move a couple ft of topsoil, grade, etc. Quite another to punch a huge pond with so many variables. Do NOTHING without test holes. You need to know what is down there before you get there.
^^^^^^^^^What he said.