Hey everyone , I was wondering how hard it is finding a automatic pre emissions service truck. I would like to do my own thing at some point. I know what you want won't always be there I would love to have a automatic Kenworth t300 service truck with a short body 12-14 but I know that won't always be there. Would a emission/def service truck be worth owning in the future?I feel like pre emissions service trucks will be gone before I make my move.
Just have to look they are out there
What would you say are good places to look. My CDL is automatic I don't really care to get the manual restriction taken off. I know some old timers may disagree with that statement Savannah traffic is a pain after 3pm.
FWIW I'll take an auto over a stick any day of the week and the weekend. Couldn't care less what others think about autos since they are so much easier to drive in traffic. However I'm not a real "trucker".. Just class A CDL holder with no manual restriction.
Facebook eBay Truck paper Purple wave Ritchie Bros and their other auctions A t300 sounds like it shouldn't even be CDL territory unless loaded super heavy but idk If your a mechanic there's always a mechanic special going around I'm not that sure but shouldn't a t300 be powered by pickup power trains so an auto should be easy to find
All the ISC , 5.9 Cummins , 3126/C7 T300 I see are usually sold or they have a 6/8/10 speed Eaton Fuller
May want to look at T300 box trucks of that vintage. A quick search on Truck Paper showed a few. You'd have to build the truck but may be a better and possibly cheaper answer. Plus those boxes make great storage buildings. Pardon Our Interruption
Get a t300 gvw at 26000k for non cdl
Why not just get a non cdl service truck? There is no less than 9 billion ford f650 and f750 service trucks out there with a 25,999 gvwr. Then you could have an auto or manual? at this point to get pre emissions you would need 2007 or older and most of those trucks are in hard shape by now.
We would typically order the T270 vs the T300 when trying to stay under 26k, but I don’t remember why.
Stop trying to be sensible. Sometimes, we just want to rock the K-Dub. For the cool drip, brah. . Happy and grinning with a Kenworth full of women. Knowwhatimsayin?
A non cdl t270 or t300 is way better than anything pickup based
Yeah. Conversely, you can score a lot of booty, with a big Superduty.
Agreed. When you start looking for something very specific in the medium/heavy truck market, it's often best to find the truck you want and build it from there. This is especially true if you want something pre-emmissions that's in good shape, at least in my experience. A year or so ago I picked up a very clean 2000 IH4700, 25.5K gwvr, auto trans, Dt466, air brakes for like $8000-9000. It had a weird non-removable side stake bed on it with a lift gate that was used to deliver vending machines. A couple days in the shop and I had myself a nice flat bed to haul materials on and pull my equipment. Pick the cab/chassis you want, the bed you want, and upfit it from there.
At least they're coming down in price to something realistic. Couple years ago clapped out mid-2000's F450 service trucks with 400k+ km on them were going for over $50k.
Hey I’m all about rocking the K-dubya. That’s how I roll, ya heard?
Did kenworth ever build a non cdl truck? I don’t know if ive ever seen one with juice brakes.
A truck requires a CDL based of weight
The truck I linked above is 26K and air brakes. Here in AL no CDL is required to drive that truck. I have had several International single axle trucks 25,500 and 25,999 with air brakes. Ordered a 4300 that was derated from 29,000 GVW to 26,000 GVW from the factory so I could get a locking rear end. 2003 model. All the manufacturers make 26K trucks with air brakes below the Fed CDL weight rules. States can be more restrictive.
The oil company I was previously employed, ordered a couple T270 models with juice brakes. Set up as short box vans. Ridiculous rigs.
What's AK's rules on air brakes? Do they follow the Fed rules or more restrictive?
I’d have to ponder that. I believe Federal. We have some unique state exceptions with HOS, ELD radius and GVWR limits.
I've driven all kinds of medium duty and I sure liked the T300 / T3-whatever it became way better than anything else. So it may well be worth it to find one. Never seen a T270, not sure what difference there is. But when juice brakes get old on MD rigs parts get hard to find, air brakes are much better.
I do, too. The T370 is my first choice for medium duty. Very trouble free. Besides A few blend door actuators, window wash buttons, electric horns, door courtesy lights and rear hood mounts. Easy stuff. Nice to drive, great visibility, tight cabs. I’m impressed with the PACCAR Ste-Thérèse Assembly Plant in Canakastan. Even during the pandemic. I ordered a bunch of them.
Driven past this one in the yard at a local spot that mostly sells service rigs. USED KENWORTH T270 MECHANICS SERVICE TRUCK W CRANE 2012 for sale in Springfield, OR | Oregon Auto Group Find USED 2012 KENWORTH T270 MECHANICS SERVICE TRUCK W CRANE for sale at $74,500 in Springfield, OR at Oregon Auto Group now. www.oregonautogroup.com
My biggest fear even though it's part of business is buying a post emissions service truck then having to pay 1200-4000 grand for a bad emissions sensor then getting codes cleared it's literally an EPA ripoff I've been doing this wrenching for almost for 5 years emissions is almost a bigger scam then social security. Also if you get code on a Kenworth or a Peterbilt you have to have the "paccar scanner tool" to see the code which I think is completely BS.
Something pre emissions could be beat to depth and need expensive repairs too. I think the early emissions trucks had the most problems and they've been improving since then. With vehicles you never know what stupid problems you'll run into.
Honestly most iron I see these days that's 20 years old is beat to ****.
If you are looking for a service truck, I'm sure you are servicing machinery or vehicles and no matter what turn you make everything will have it. So might as well jump in feet first with experience by having your own vehicle with the BS on it and learning the basics or getting acquainted with it as it's only going one direction. You are either in or you are hanging up your tools.
I agree with Spud, contact member on here Kisst Diagnostics, he sold me a Texa setup on my own laptop which I use for diagnosing off road engines and with another software module it would cover pretty much all trucks including any KW along with the engines and any other ECMs, you should have this in your arsenal anyway so you can basically work on anything you show up on.
Rather show up to a customers shop with a emissions laden truck so if I need to run the PTO for air/hydraulic such as compressor/crane inside the customers shop I'm not fumigating myself with pre emission truck. Yeah I can rip the DPF/DEF off my current truck, but when I bring it in the shop to work on or use it as work rig I rather be able to close the doors right away and keep them closed when it's -40° F outside.
You can have $10,000 worth of emissions equipment on your truck or a $1200 hose that never breaks for that Yes they typically are or a arm and a leg, or you pay for it with the new trucks, you pay either way. I would rather buy a old truck and put money in it to have a nice simple truck that I can rely on and if the blinker breaks it's a $79 part and not a $600 part
And the stuff that's an arm and a leg is usually still **** but with fresh paint on it. Its not often I see anything old with a big price tag that's actually worth that money.
I can agree with that
The several automatics I've run, I'm not a fan. Never in the correct gear and/or take 3 business days to shift. The Allison RDS4500 in the T880 I run tries to be in top gear (6th) at around 30-35mph, lugging the engine to barely 900rpm. 4th is the correct gear, around 1600rpm.
That hasn't been my experience. Had two Granites with 4560's that were smooth and powerful. One in a tri-axle and one a hook lift. Pulled equipment with the tri-axle and the hook was always loaded heavy. Both these were late 2000's trucks FWIW
It's been in the shop 3x for a funky 2-3 shift and was told the ~8-900 rpm in 6th is fine... it almost stalls the engine. It'll hold 2nd too long, then nothing (neutral) and bang 3rd so hard it chirps the fan belt.... like break the crank hard. They replaced the trans controller and not sure what else. But even the old 500 series Allision wasn't awesome at shift timing. have replaced several at545s in several water and dump trucks that couldn't handle 25-30 tons with only a DT466 or M10 Cummins. Had an 10 speed UltraShift aka UltraShit in Merc/Freight Liner dump truck. Thankfully 500hp 60 series, but thst trans is super slow to shift vs a person shifting. Takes forever getting to reverse too, which irritates the loader man. Probably better now I'd hope, that truck is 20 years old.
I've driven a couple trucks with that Ultrashift. Not a huge fan but I can see why manufacturers are going that way. I found it easier to drive an autoshift Cascadia than I did driving my own pickup with a cargo trailer.
I've heard of those guys before
We had the windshield washer tank break in the T880 due to an CAC clamp installed so the bolt end would hit the tank. KW refused to warranty it, claimed that was correct and it couldn't hit unless the truck was "abused". Over $500 for the tank and apparently non replaceable pump (all 1 piece). "Abuse" being normal Prudhoe Bay dirt roads, nothing worse than logging roads.
I have a Ford 800 or 900 10 wheeler 80ft bucket truck with gas engine, 5 and 4 and hydraulic brakes. But has an air system still for the boom. (Air over hydraulic for high voltage insulation I guess). No idea why they'd spec hydraulic brakes. The park brake is a Mico Lock, so it relies on the hydraulics to hold pressure to hold the brakes. Dunno but when 80ft in the air, it's not too comforting!
Wheel chocks for that one lol These new trucks are out of hand with repairs, used to be off the shelf parts for everything now they are proprietary parts and 10x as much
Its technology for the sake of technology.
When I stopped being a fleet manager for the leading fuel & lubricant distributor in AK in 2020, my average annual cost to maintain a post 2011 medium or HD truck aftertreatment exhaust system, per unit, was $23,000. Weeks and weeks of Downtime not included. Why? Excessive idle time, retarded drivers, remote field repair and Alaska parts & labor prices.
What year model T880?
IMO, pre-emission or deleted trucks aren’t going anywhere for quite some time as demand for them is high. If you’re working for a company of any size, they’ll probably go with the newer model that has emission controls because typically they can absorb the downtime. I own a 2007 KW T300, 8.3 Cummins and a 10 speed. Had a couple of peterbilts with Allison autos when I worked at dealer, thought I’d hate the 10 speed as I do a lot of city driving but you get used to it and it becomes 2nd nature. I like it much better off road than an auto, just my experience. If you’re purchasing for yourself someday, I’d chose the pre emission truck and do the rebuild work it needs. I run my truck 12-14/6 days a week most of the year and have for several years now and it’s taken me home every day, not much more than normal maintenance items. As noted above, emission trucks are a lot nicer for running inside the shop, it’s just something you have to deal with. I’m on the road and in the field 99% of the time so it doesn’t affect me. Reliability has been 10/10 with the kenworth. No complaints from me. The biggest thing for me is not having to tell my customers I can’t come because my truck is down waiting on parts. In conclusion, I’m probably above average with emission controls on equipment and I wouldn’t trade my truck for one that has them. My .02 and opinions will differ.
Completely correct----with a heavy/large side of--retarded drivers, hold the onions.
Probably makes a big difference who's paying for the fuel and maintenance of the truck. I saw a KW dump truck listed on RB's site that wasn't that old but the hood had damage all over the place as did the bumper. It looked more like something that got a little too close to the wrecking ball than a road worthy truck. How can people have so little regard for equipment like that?
All that Allison stuff is completely programmable. Back in the hydraulic trans days they seemed to be pretty good, the early World series were good, but later when everything started to get technified those same world series were coming with a very sluggish shift program. We would have the guy from the Allison dealer (which was also Cummins) come out and reprogram it to closely match the torque/power curve of the engine and it would operate great after that. It would make uphill upshifts at low speed that you could never make with a crash box, the truck would come to a stop during rev matching before going to the next gear, the Allison power flow is uninterrupted.
I speced Allison in almost everything, I had built. They have been just rock solid reliable. But, I spent extra time with MHC and with Allison to make sure the axle ratio was correct, along with programming. I was insistent, in a couple cases, where I had to explain max speed is 45 mph and in one case, 25 mph. I don’t want her trying to figure out what gear She wants to be in, while cruising 25-30. Yeah, but what if you want to go 65? Dude, this girl will never leave the Island.
Allison's are exceptional at what they do except on cost. If it's a bush truck or something that goes off road a lot I'd get an Allison as they are way easier to control, will keep you from getting stuck, and have a way better chance getting you out when stuck
Initial cost maybe, I feel like ongoing cost they are probably cheaper to run, in rough service. No bent hard parts and clutch replacements and stuff like that.
Possibly but a old Allison 750 is a 10k reman while normal transmissions are like 5k No broken u joints though
How often do Allisons need rebuilt vs crash boxes though? I don't know the answer to this question in large fleet terms, but from my small experience it seems like most Allisons last the life of the truck.
I don’t know. They just appear to last forever. They eat an occasional TCM, more than anything. Very rarely, a valve body. I take that back. The 2500 is more susceptible to abuse and they die occasionally. The 3000 and 4000 just run forever. Have to watch the PTO’s closely. The attachment cap screws loosen for some reason. Even with new hardware and Nordlocks, torqued properly.
I came across this article a while ago when I was looking into the oil. A trash company in Germany did a study where they only serviced their Allisons never changed the oil for 7 years with pretty much no extra wear. https://autodeadline.com.au/Content...any - Allison along with,nine for hours a day .
The T880 we got new in 2022 I think just hit 10,000 miles, but it's at around 3500hrs. And it's normally parked indoors, so that run time is all driving, pumping product or idle while dropping stuff off, swinging into camp for lunch in winter, etc...cause I'm certainly not shutting it off when it's -40*! Was working in Fairbanks last week and their T800 decided it needed a regen in the middle of filling customer tanks so it just shut off. Had to put the hoses up, pull the truck over to a parking lot and sit there for an hour so we could get back to work... and already were right on time before it decided to save the planet. Looked at a pair of ex Conoco cab and chassis for a guy I worked for, he thought about making a dump truck. Was a vac truck and I guess ran 24/7. Both had ~125k miles, but near 60,000 hours on them. And looked like orginal engines.
Depends on who is driving them, if you never over heat or over load them as long as check the oil they are only going to fail on a defective part. Automatics use planetary gears which have 3-4 time the contact patch than a manual transmission gear set do there is way less wear and you can change the filter to get the crap out of the oil.
I have one in a 73 Pete behind a 6V53. Doesn't get much use these days but still trouble free. We started spec-ing them in mixers in 2002 and were the Allison poster child prior to the sale. Now you can't find a mixer on the West Coast without one. We have a hundred in service six days a week and also use them to drag bottoms, end dumps and transfer boxes behind CNG power. A good fit with the 13L. Had three failures related to factory defects that I can remember. There's been other failures, but all caused by "the mechanics using engine oil instead of transmission fluid." A couple of weeks ago there was one in the shop at the plant I work out of when the mechanic flagged me down with some complaints, one of which was there was engine oil in the transmission. The truck was transferred to us from another plant. I was skeptical of his diagnosis so he showed me. Yep, looked like engine oil, but of course it wasn't. We had a similar transfer from the same plant years ago with the same problem. If you don't do any service work for four or five years, the filters will plug and the fluid will burn. The previous truck ran another six months before tear down. Not sure how long this one will last. So to answer your question, notwithstanding the occassional factory defect, they will run for decades with normal maintenance, unless you have idiots working on them.
I run 15w40 in my Allison's and it's a factory spec fluid, you just have to let it warm up when cold, I'd have to check the manual it's either unter 30 degrees or unter 5 degrees 15w40 is not recommended. If you have a transmission that's slipping 15w40 will nurse it forward.
I've not seen 15w40 factory spec'd but by no means an expert on them. Mostly dealt with the AT545 and 643.
Moved a lot of BP Autran' Syn 295 out of the Anchorage Warehouse alongside Shell Spirax S6 ATF A295, as a more affordable option. Both flavors come out of the same tap in Houston, then are branded. Good stuff.
Back in the 90s they would sometimes spec SAE 30 engine oil if one had a retarder or other severe service. I suspect with Transynd and what not the use of engine oil has declined but the internals have not changed much since then.
I've ran 15w40 in clbt 4460, 750, 4500ofs They will all run it and run better with it except cold. Find a manual it's in there. I with I could run it in my 5r110, lol I'll ask one of the engineers of that transmission