Well, I realize I may only get the "price what you are comfortable with" answers, but ask I shall. I am looking mostly for equipment for personal and farm use only. However, I have realized older and good wont happen. People don't take care of stuff anymore. For this reason I may need to get newer and do some work to help pay for the large expense. I am mostly looking at 25-35T excavators. I also have a D7 dozer. I do math for a living so I have no issue working numbers but I have no idea how people quote, and what wage is typical. I realized in manufacturing, people just straight up lied to me, and that is fine. Told me a machine should make $60/hr..... At that rate, if anything on a machine broke, I would never afford to fix it, and that is on OLDER equipment! What I learned was to determine how quickly people pay off equipment, and that gave me a MUCH bigger clue! I would be selective in work I take, reduce liability, and focus on jobs that optimize my equipment. I am just trying to figure out where the optimal zone will be, and what that rate might look like to see if this would make sense.
Holy ****. Not even sure where to start. You say *excavation work*. Are you talking site prep, road work, underground utilities, basements/footings, or something else? What kind of experience do you have in any aspect of this venture, whether it's running the machines or how to do the jobs? While most on here will applaud you for trying, it will be very hard to get into the dirt business with no background whatsoever.
Ah, I guess from my first post, it would seem I am the FNG with a new hammer....Not quite the case. Whole family in heavy construction, I worked in the industry many years, ran everything from a sod cutter to a D9. Did a lot of municipal work on new concrete bridge overpass and storm sewer builds. I have an engineering and manufacturing education, and even way back as a rookie in construction, I was a key asset to figure out how to build a sand wall with a 1.5mi radius and 3% lay back for a bridge. I own a total station, a laser, and a host of other tools. I am sort of a swiss army knife I guess. No, I am not green to construction, but I am not sure where my assets are best used. Pond work seems to bring out about anyone with an old digger. However, I certainly won't saddle up for high pressure municipal work right now. I probably have connections to get it, but I am mostly looking for basic digging work. Probably not even basements either. Road drainage, culverts, that sort of thing maybe. I am not afraid of complex or high precision jobs, but life (relationships) has stresses me to a point that I no longer want drama in my life. In a nut shell, I was key on the biggest bridge in the biggest city in our state, and I have also manufactured aerospace parts for the biggest commercial jet in the sky, but life has slapped me hard enough that I don't desire the stress anymore, and I am not even old. I'd rather sit in my machine and dig a simple hole. It will come in handy some day.
Best gauge is local bidders charges. Most charge out the gate to back into the gate for machines by hour so a hour one way haul becomes two hours of payday and they can squib a bit on per hour charge padding the ends. Size of machines dictates cost per hour where the operator is at times a second expense per hour. Last quote I received here was $110/hour for a25t excavator for pond work, extra rate for Loader or dozer if required. Some shops set a base rate for 'A Pond impoundment' but then tack on extras during construct for add ins the owner requests as work proceeds. Being able to finish grade and compact a site for a slab or foundation work is a art in and of itself, a crew load is another aspect.
Newer doesn’t mean trouble free . I’ve been on many jobs with new machines that broke down and took a week or more to fix . This is where rental is a plus.
I fail to recognize how you think being a small business owner is a low stress occupation. If you just want to dig holes without stress you may want to get a job for some outfit. The stress of accounts payable overshadowing accounts receiveable is far greater than some boss chewing my rear, and nothing has ever stressed me more than figuring where I'm going to get grocery money to feed the kids.
25 to 35 ton machines dont just hire out for easy jobs around here if you pull that kind of iron out it's going to be a decent dollar size job a 35 ton machine is a grand to mob in and another to mob off It's a matter of what you want today do but small excavating buissness is not low stress in my opinion if you want easy dig a hole and move on get a backhoe and hire out by the hour
a 35 ton machine is a bit of overkill to put an 18 inch pipe in a ditch? Big to move, big on fuel, needs lots of space to work. We have 35, and 50 ton machines, but most stuff like that is done with a 14 ton. We have 3 145 swing master Linkbelts that are great for that kind of work. Even the zero swing 235 will do in a pinch, but I couldn't imagine floating a 350 machine in for something like that. That being said, we have been having great luck with Linkbelt machines. We have 2 350s, a 235, and the 3 swingmaster, 145s. The 350s are only a year old, but so far so good. The other 4 have been trouble free so far. One of the 145s is a 2015, and has been as reliable as the older Maytag washers
Appreciate all the input guys, including the business move! I realize the stress in taking on work. Have been a business owner for 15yrs but this sector may take a little learning. It is looking like I might end up with a 27T machine. I realize that size class can be hard to figure into some jobs. I see lots of guys "make it work" with smaller machines, where a bigger machine is really better suited. I assume so they can subsidize the moving costs and cheaper parts.
I myself make the smaller machine work for bigger jobs cause if your small the key is variety to staying really busy in our area so I make my 314 do jobs that I really need a 325 for but that is 1 out of 10 otherwise I couldn't use a 325 on 5 out of 10 jobs so my investment returns better having less machine even if I have to work more hours to accomplish a job Eventually we will step into a 25 ton size machine but for the most part I am not missing out on most work for lack of a bigger machine
The problem with a 27 ton machine is you can't do residential basements, and it's too small for a lot of commercial digs, it's a awkward in between size for a lot of jobs. It's also a lot more coin to move, then a 20 ton, but in many places the same as a 30 ton. For my 210 I do some jobs for $1500 if I leave the yard with it and i'm back in under 7 hours. Other then that depending on the job I quote it at $500 moving each way, $175-250/hr depending on the type of work. Depending on how much you will use the machine, how much money you have to buy one, and how mechanically inclined you are you can get a good hoe for $60-130k. IMO somewhere around the 8-10 year old mark with 4000-7000 hours is where a good value is. Old enough to not pay an insane amount, new enough to still be very reliable. Totally agree on the point of it being a headscratcher to go into earthworks thinking it will be low stress. Even when things are good, there's still always the stress of wondering if you'll have enough work, and when you're going to get paid. The only part that's helped me a lot is building a good safety cushion so if I have no work I don't have to worry about covering bills.
The jobs I find the most annoying are the one's my 210 is too big for, not the one's where it's a bit small and a 250 could do it a bit faster.
Well, as I said, this machine has work to do for me at the shop. This is not a loan situation, and no kids will go hungry if it doesn't work, but I can really only justify the large price by offsetting with a little for-hire work. Hate to say, but I would probably cherry pick any work I can find. I am not willing to hurt the machine beating on rocks or similar. Most of our local soils are easy clay/loam digs. I am trying to think about certain jobs, but it really does seem that they can get done with a smaller machine. Septics, lagoons, drainage, etc. Hard to factor. Not entirely sure on brush clearing. That does take serious machines and my D7 can help, but I find that work to be very taxing on machines. It has been really hard because I would say 80% of the work does not even come down to dirt moving, it comes down to lifting capacity for me as it's primary use, and the height and extension. Really for most work, a small rubber track would be the deal. Some might say I need a crane or tele, but it is really hard to compete with a machine that can lift 27K, go 30ft in the air, and dig. And with aux hydros, I can find other stuff for it to do.....
Take what you win and run what you brung - that motto has served me well over the last 27 years. At the end of the day it's all about putting food on the table with what ya' have.
Minimize the risk= minimal reward. All business is competitive. Seems just when you think you can cherry pick the nice ones ,the new guy shows up and lots of time hes good,just has a payment to make. I know ive been the new guy, now im the old guy and I still have take jobs that make you shiver if you want to see some cash out of them.Its a way of life to live with the ups n downs.
A couple suggestions that i recommend,is to put a rock clause and a water clause in every contract just to protect your butt. I have worked with MANY contractors that were hurt big time because they didn’t have one.
Without a doubt. Also add "No undercutting of unsuitable soils included", "No import of structural fill" and "no topsoil import". My favorite contract term is BY OTHERS.
It can be pretty hard to pick and choose the jobs you want if other contractors are also bidding on them, especially if they have a more appropriately sized machine. That's why you have to take the good with the bad. Bigger contractors will take on small jobs at less profit just to keep their guys working when things get slow. A long time contractor with a good reputation could probably do it as semi retired but you'd need 25+ years to build that reputation. Owner/operator is hard and and can be a lot of stress. You have to do the jobs you have, look at other jobs you want to bid on, collect payments, order and pick up parts, do repairs and maintenance, pay bills, reschedule jobs due to inclement weather etc. I agree if you just want to dig holes and have less stress, work for someone else.
I have read this a couple times and I am not yet able to wrap my head around what is trying to be accomplished. The work wanted is road drainage and putting in culverts, but a 27t machine is wanted for lift capacity, but I am not sure what is being lifted requiring that much ass. Looking for pickup work with low stress, but with a 27t machine. I am not sure that kind of easy work is very easy to find, but maybe it exists there. I just sense the OP is looking to justify buying this size machine for whatever reason. I don't quite think that machine makes a lot of business sense in what has been shared here, but you have experience in the field so maybe your able to see things there that most everyone else on here cannot. To the OP, you want it, can afford it, so buy it and don't try and justify it 'cause I don't think that it likely can be easily justified up front. Get and see what you can make out of the purchase and if it doesn't work the way you want it to, sell it. Like you said, the kids wont be going hungry in the mean time. Sometimes it is fun to roll the dice and make something out of nothing, especially if you have money to play around with.
I was quite stressed when I pecked out this thread. I have realized now that this is just something I will have to figure out on my own. I think my situation is probably too much to peck out on the net.
Well, we're certainly game to help if you are game to explain. There are many great professionals here, but also several who own a lot of iron trying to make some side bacon with it, whilst not hurting the full timers. Think out loud here.
I think everyone's point especially mine is it's very difficult to take on work at your leisure with that kind of iron especially if the job requires hired help and you will be competing against guys that have to make that dollar to keep there machines On the flip side is iron I have cause the job bought it and we might only use it once a year cause we dont chase that work but occasionally it falls in your lap Once word gets out you have it and are willing to hire out you will get calls in my business it took 2 years to be taken seriously and 3 years before my number started getting around you can only cold call so many times looking for work with potential customers
I doubt it. There are many diverse contractors on this Forum that do many different things in many different fields with heavy equipment. We have 2 - 27T machines both zero swing Cats. Great machines and I think I like our '11 321DL better than the '18 325FL. We do the bulk of our work with these two machines which is normally commercial demolition and site work including utilities. On occasion we'll rent larger hoes if we need more lifting capacity. Don't own a lowboy as our jobs last from 1 to several months at a time so the numbers don't pencil out. We hire all our moves. The average move for one of our zero swings is $250-350 around our metro area - 30 miles +/- one way. Our average mob cost in our bid is $2000 in and $2000 out for all the equipment and labor. Mob day eats 24 man hours at a minimum - 3 guys 8 hours. At $40 per hour labor burden that's $960 a day. I'm saying all of that in order to give some insight on the costs of owning larger equipment - the bigger you go the more expensive it is to own, operate, move and maintain. That's why I strictly do commercial/industrial work as I can't compete in the residential market. A guy with a 305 behind a pickup can put a driveway pipe in much, much cheaper than I can for example.
Amen to that! Then you are vastly overthinking your situation, you've already said the $$$ doesn't matter. There were multiple bidders on the bridge, and there were multiple bidders on the parts. The bridge would have gotten built without you, and so would have the parts. Maybe not as cheap, maybe not as well, but they build bridges in third world countries with sticks and shovels. No ones situation is as "unique" or unicorn as they think it is. You want to be able to unload 27,000lbs at your shop. E veryone that does such things regularly, has a big forklift or a crane. Cranes/ forklifts pick things up, excavators dig holes in the ground. Lattice boom truck and crawlers go cheap if they have some age on them. Excavators stink for heavy unloading. When you have the arm up close where your best chart is, you're out of height. When you put the arm out, your out of capacity because its away from the machine. You can dig with a crane, with a clam or dragline, but its far from ideal. Right tool for the right job. Some part of that must just not make sense to you because you're special? As all the dirt guys have pointed out, no one uses a 27 ton excavator for culverts or a septic tank. They are too big for casual use. The reason all those machines are "worn out", is not because everyone's a bunch of liars, its that the machines actually get used. Its a fixed cost, the owner needs return on investment, so the machines get used. You don't seem to want to listen to the guys that dig for a living in your own area, or the ones on the internet. So here's your "real" answer: You need a 27 ton excavator, that has 100hours on it and has only dug silt from a old creek bed. You will buy this machine for less than scrap price- they may pay you to take it - because they are tired of owning a perfect machine. You should charge $350 / hr. $2000 in and $2,000 out. You will dig no rocks, remove no trees or do anything else that may "abuse" the machine. All utilities, old foundations, and buried junk piles will be adequately marked and removed by someone else. You won't carry any insurance, and will be responsible for nothing. Fortunately you gave nothing for the excavator, so all income will be direct profit. Customers will provide fuel and oil changes on site, as well as fix and pay for all repairs onsite- it wouldn't have broken if you weren't doing their work. Your life will now be all sunshine and roses.
Well my main business is CNC machining. I own many machines. We are currently building a new shop on the farm so I can run the machine shop and farm. The lift capacity of the larger machine is really the only reason for a bigger machine. I think a 200-210 is really more ideal. We crane lift machines as we either sell one and buy anther, etc. Sometimes we will just set a machine on skates outside, then move with a smaller machine inside. We also need to offload very heavy items and raw stock off trucks at times. Yes, cranes and forks are typical, and we have a 20T RT crane at another place. I cannot rely on a fork because of the rock driveway. Really tracks are the only think I know I can depend on. I know I can come up with a better solution BUT my goal here is the employ an excavator as a swiss army knife....doing the job of a digger, crane, and forklift at times. We also have a 10K forklift but would be very limited outdoors even being a solid pneumatic. We have about 4000ft of trench to open for the new shop between utilities, solar, and geothermal stuff. None of that requires a big machine but to get it done efficiently, a 15-20T machine would be needed. We also need it to stand the building and such. Our farming operation is tree farming and hay. I plan to use the aux hydros of the machine to develop specific tools to load hay faster and load trees. Again other machines can do this. I hope some can understand what I am trying to do.... Use/own one machine instead of 5 specialty machines. All of this still would not be daily hours for the machine. Just one of my personal business practices is I want to at least see an ROI on what I buy, then I can at least say "it paid for itself".... If I pay 50K for a machine, I'd ideally like to see that much returned. I do realize it will already be offsetting a TON of expense if I had to rent a machine for the work we need done right now. I think what I am trying to ensure is that I can justify keeping it and not have to sell after some work tapers off here. I am hoping word of mouth will help as when wee had our other machine here, I had 2 guys just pull in asking, but one wanted to "rent" it.... These are usually people that don't know which side of the bucket does the digging.
I sort of did what you are thinking of doing 20 plus years ago. My main income comes from farming. Corn, beans, wheat and a few cows. I started with a 200 Hyundai excavator. Mostly for my own projects. Old trees, abandon farmsteads, rocks and projects around the farmstead. I currently have a 210 Volvo. In my area it is easy to haul around. ND you can be 10ft wide with no special permits. plus 90% is gravel roads. Here it doesn't really matter if you are moving a 160 size or a 210 size machine. I use it for all kinds of thing around the yard. Building fence, lifting broken equipment, cleaning feedlots, site prep for new buildings. they are kind of a swiss army knife around the yard. Fast forward 20 some years, I do a fair amount of side jobs around the area. So i get what you mean by it can be relaxing, Most of my extra jobs are not on a schedule, neighbors will call for a job knowing that I will get to it sooner or later. If it has to be done at a time when I can't do it, Planting or harvest, I am honest and tell them I can not get it done in that time frame. I enjoy doing cleanup/dirt work, Especially when it it not high pressure and no one looking over your shoulder demanding you get it done by Friday. I have a good relationship with the guys around me that all they do for a living is excavating. I will recommend them if I can"t do a job. sometimes they will give me a job if its closer to me than they are. Sometimes we work together on a big job. I realize my situation is a little unique, but you could probably do something similar. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Farmlund your post gave me a chuckle. Around the parts some full time excavators raise cattle as a hobby. It's common to see a crew cab flatbed with a cat tag on the front, fuel tank and tool boxes on the back with a pallet of salt tubs ratchet strapped down. I have several friends in the business that make their money moving dirt or trucking but really enjoy dealing with their cattle.
Ha, maybe I am doing it backwards CM. There is a lot of that here also. guys with regular jobs or businesses and 30 cows out back. The cow are sort of my dads deal. he is 84 and loves messing around with them. Keeps him alive I think. We just help with the hard stuff.
I guess I didn't really address your question about pricing the excavating jobs. When i started out i did alot by the hour, $100/hr or so 20 years ago. Now 90% of the time I just give an amount for the total job. Keep in mind its mostly farmstead cleanup and tree rows. Most are simple to estimate after you get some experience. I try to get at least $175-200hr now. I usually aim a little high on the estimate, if it goes easy I just bill a little less. If I do bid a bigger job with footing, water lines sewer or something complicated than I will make a serious bid/estimate, with everything broke down by the item. I didn't take on any very complicated jobs till I had been doing it for around 10yrs.
To second what farmerlund said above - I find it hard to make money doing hourly work, much rather do a negotiated or hard bid job any day of the week.
Thirded. Once you've got a bit of experience, bid jobs tend to be more profitable in my experience. Hourly around here sucks, and no one wants to pay extra for a machine with a tiltrotator.
I was entertained by this thread. While reading it I could feel myself thinking very similarly on a new piece of equipment acquisition. We always want to justify an expense to the point we sometimes get tunnel vision. I think you have made your mind up. I am only basing my opinion on the evolution of the thread. So buy the excavator! Use it for all of your personal work, once complete offer your expertise and equipment for small local jobs. If it doesn't pan out send it on down the road. As for lifting..... Pour a concrete pad big enough to unload deliveries with a forklift. This makes much more sense from an unloading stand point. You could pour a pad and pickup a cheap bigger forklift to use outside. If you drop one machine or one finished part that pad and forklift investment doesn't seem too far fetched. Or as you, or someone else, referenced an all terrain telehandler could be an option. Now how many loads do I need to haul to convince my wife a dump truck makes sense in our driveway???
It's a different game if the primary use is for yourself, then just make some money on the side with it. Then I would say buy whatever will suit your needs the best, and still be able to hire it out to make it worthwhile. Assuming you won't move it yourself, it might be worth a call to people who move in your area how a machine a few tons bigger or smaller might make a big difference in moving costs though. Just had my dump truck in for inspection, it ran a whole 1200 miles in the last year, but considering the convenience and it probably saved me $20k in moving costs, it's still well worthwhile. Long as you can justify the excavator and pay for it, why not. It's just one of those things if it doesn't run a lot, a few repairs on a 27 ton machine can get real expensive real quick so the first few years could hurt. I think dirt work as a part-time gig can be great. That's how I got started, and if things are decent will be back homebuilding in 2022 and split my time between it and dirtwork. Makes it a lot easier to schedule too being a 1 man show if it's not always jobs back to back. Also once you've got a few years in and all the equipments paid for, it pays incredibly well you don't need to do a lot of jobs.
Main problem is so many people are so dahm cheap. One customer had the nerve to complain about $400 for bringing out my 6 ton mini for an electrical trench (this was an add on to excavation or I would never bother at that price). Like they think you're getting rich at $400. It's 3 hours by the time you start loading up at yard until you're back. I rarely do hourly work, i'd rather let my equipment sit then waste a bunch of time for a few hundred bucks, and those are the jobs it takes even more time to collect.
You need to change who you work for. I have repeat commercial customers that understand what it cost to build a project and aren't scared to spend the money to get it done on time and on budget. I know this sounds simple but find customers who know how to make money with the projects you build for them.
Same reason I got away from track work way to cut throat Now we do really well by the hour but we built our buissness for ot and we run small iron and have built a reputation of doing quality work in tough conditions and its jobs you would never bid to small
You can't convince your wife it makes sense. I've had a dump truck for 2 years now. It has paid for itself with what I've done with it, and my wife still looks at it with contempt.
To answer a few questions. Yes, I do realize that pouring concrete in certain areas will allow forklift action, and that might well be a longer term solution, but if you price just the mud vs what I am buying the hoe for, I think most would understand I am doing this right. Sometimes with offloads, lifting is just safer and easier than forks. Sometimes there are lift eyes and if a machine has a really high CG, forking just gets my nerves worked up. As to wife approval, that is one thing I have written off, even being late 30s. I am not bringing my drama to the site but IMO, this reads like a text book where men get to choose between success or long term ass. I didn't realize how easy life could be once I wrote "happily ever after" out of the books for a lifetime. New tail comes around, they are intrigued by all the "toys" and ask "how did you buy all this?".... They leave shortly when I tell them it's amazing what you can own when you no longer have to buy fur coats, cars, and steak dinners at fancy restaurants.....Just wish I could share wisdom with the younger guys, but that is a chapter that is just set on repeat....
" but it is really hard to compete with a machine that can lift 27K, go 30ft in the air, and dig." An excavator makes a **** poor crane. The range of operation that it can move big weight is woefully over rated in the charts, they do best with the bucket 10' or less off the ground. Add in some rigging and now you can't get that top-heavy machine off a truck bed to save your life. Don't buy a big excavator for that kind of primary work. I say this as the guy who will try and do everything I can with an excavator because it just should. Then I get my arse kicked like today, when I was trying to drag out a loaded 40 yard trash dumpster with the 120 and running smack up against that chart problem. I've slung plenty of 6000 pound steel sheets around on a short chain with it, but I had to have the bucket 10' up to clear the dumpster. If you are getting a machine to do bid work, something smaller will work more jobs.
27klbs with a 27 ton machine does seem like way too much. I know my 210 with thumb without bucket will lift 9500lbs at max reach and just starts to tip over the side, but I highly doubt it would lift 20k very well to be of use. If I was lifting that kind of big weight much with a hoe i'd be getting a lifting adapter made up to reduce weight and make it safe. That's way too much weight to be trusting on the eye of a bucket or what not.
No guys, I was just mentioning the "max capacity" in the sweet spot. I realize there is a wide range. We also have a crane in another location and I am usually the guy spec'ing the lifts. If I really needed to lift 27K, I would not employ this machine.
That was just one really bad customer, once I get paid in full for this job I will never do work for again. But so many are like that and short sighted. Commercial grade beam, they went with someone else, apparently he does all their excavation and they thought my price was high, but they asked me to quote because they weren't happy with his work lately, I asked if they were comparing apples to apples and of course was told yes. Now the pile guy and cribber are pissed because it's a mess and refuse to do anymore until excavation is fixed and they want me to come clean it up because the guy is too busy and "it just needs a bit of cleaning up". Guy didn't leave enough room, not level, didn't scrape interior for slab, piled all dirt on site instead of hauling away, and a million other details that I included in my quote. Now I told them I don't even know if i'm interested based on my original price because I don't know how big of a mess it is. I do enjoy when things like this blow up in people's faces though. I quoted $54k for the job, the guy who did it rented a 8 ton machine and figured he could send a operator to excavate it in 2 days, and then 1 day to just push in the backfill later. No one is quoting that kind of money if a job can be properly done in that amount of time. I would love to witness him trying to backfill in january with a 8 ton machine though.
When I go to fix someone's eles job its strictly by the hour and there are a lot of coffe breaks
What a bummer fixing someone else's half butted job. It would definitely have to cost more than the original quoted price!
I had to remind my boss today that if a plumbing job takes me two days to dig, it will take just as long to restore it. Everybody seems to think you just toss that dirt back and hit it and done. I am working around all those plumbing stubs, I have to bring out the excess that is displaced by bedding, and i have to grade it at least as good as I found it. Those stubs are plumb and need to stay that way too.
They don't want anything hourly. When they first mentioned about fixing up, I said I won't do anything for you for less then $5,000. But I will be figuring on $400/hr for my 6 ton. The reason I had to go high was it will be backfilled in january and needs 98% compaction so I had to figure on buying good clay for it which isn't easy that time of year. It very well could cost more then my original quote. It's got quite cold here in the last few days, so they pulled off most of the snow and dug some out, so now it's going to freeze badly and areas like the elavator shaft were dug, but too small so all the banks will be frozen making it more work then originally. The other problem is they are in the huge rush now and are trying to convince the pile guys to weld on the caps before the excavation is fixed, which I said means my 210 can't get in and it will all be 6 ton machine which will take probably 3 times as long. Last winter I fixed a much smaller site in feburary with piles and learned my lesson how long it takes and not to give anyone a deal for fixing someone elses mess. It's not 100% the other excavators fault, when I was quoting and asked for existing elevations they had no idea so the shot the site myself, it varied by 19" and this is after the piles were in. I asked why didn't they level the site to the slab grade before piles because it would be a heck of a lot cheaper and easier without 130 piles in the way. And he complained his quote was based on starting before winter, mine was to as I quoted the job like a month ago.
It really depends on the backfill, but yea generally takes longer then it does to dig it. This one will take easily 3-4 days because it's about 1200' of gradebeam to backfill all to 98% compaction. Or maybe not compacted, apparently the other 3 buildings on the site none of the backfill was compacted and they were like 10' cuts for parkade so who knows.
If they would have left the snow would probably have made a big difference since we got a big dump after being quite warm the day before. Clearing the snow and driving on the site just pushes the frost deeper. It sounds like one of the jobs where you dictate how it's done or they find someone else. Classic case of... A lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. Some jobs just aren't worth the hassle. What if they don't want to pay your price at the end?
Get lots of progress payments.
Looked over a large complex job with the boss yesterday. He's thinking 6 weeks. I think 5, but we will stick with the 6 and overperform
It's impossible to explain to some people how badly the frost goes down from driving on it or even removing the snow, they just don't understand. If they don't want to pay my price they can find someone else, I won't even book the job until I have a signed contract for the amount I want. I don't need or care if I do the work. I know how frozen it's going to be and it's hard on the mini so if i'm doing it, i'm gouging them badly for it for their stupidity. The way they told me I didn't get the job pissed me off, to the point I was about to tell the estimator thanks for wasting my time and having me organize your job, don't bother coming to me for quotes on your other stuff coming up, i'm not interested. First telling me I have the job, then saying my price too high when they never had another comparable one, and just deciding to go with their current guy "because he wanted it and brought a machine to site", and being in such a panic for the price 2 times but not getting me information, then hearing nothing for weeks after they have the price.
I'd walk and tell them you're not interested. The weather has been weird lately too. Warmer and melting and freezing and then melting and repeating the pattern. There's probably going to be a big sheet of ice on the ground to deal with. You might need some Powerblanket ground thawing blankets but you could add them to the cost if you really wanted the job. Ground Thawing Heated Blankets for Harsh Climates | Powerblanket
Well i'm getting the joy of doing a ton of trenching there, but it's all by the hour so I couldn't careless that it's a complete **** show. So far 2 days and 14 billable hours and machine has worked maybe 6 hours, plumbers electricians and cribbers trying to figure out how the hell they can get it done all trying to work on top of each other. They are trying to put the gradebeam in, while i'm trying to trench services in for plumbers which are suppose to be stubbed into the building 1m, but only found the sanitary which was stubbed .5m outside of building, cannot find the water, if the measurement is correct a screw pile is through the storm. One of the plumbers is confident there was no shut off in the asphalt and there may not even be a water stub anywhere. Completely on hold right now because they need sumps dug which was part of the excavators contract, but they don't want them back they want me to do it but they never issued the plumbers a PO. The best part I like is i'm all by the hour, I don't care about delays, waiting anything. I show up and if I run out of work i'll leave and it's minimum 5 hours. I showed up at 8 and sat around for them to show up to start at 830, and they pay for the half hour lunch. I am perplexed how they make money, they must be charging the general a fortune. The general expects the gradebeam, plumbing, electrical, and slab on grade done by january 11, which is comical. Frost is down 1-1.5', some spots not too bad. The worst part is piles everywhere and sticking up too far to drive over so it's all done with the 6 ton mini. Probably going to be a months work solid to trench for plumbers and electricians.
Are you getting progress payments or some money up front? Based on their past I'd be worried they're going to try and dispute your bill.
The PM on that job tossed us under the bus, he quipped to the customer that he thought it was a 3 week groundwork. Nobody else, not the owner, other PM, or the plumber think so. Luckily it has not started and I we got that big grease interceptor cut right out of the schedule by doing it early. We knocked it out in two days, one to dig and set the shoring, then crane set, pull shoring and backfill the next day. I won't try to do a big structure on the same day as the dig. You never know if you are going to hit a big footing or pipe nobody knows about, or need to set up a pump show if you get into water.
No, there is no way anyone would do it and you need a prepaid license to take deposits, that's one thing the government takes really seriously, if you get caught they will give you a ban on incorporating a company, know someone it happened to for 5 years. I'm not working for the general though, i'm working for the plumber, electrician (and cribber who's my brother), both the companies are big i'm not worried about getting paid from them and it's not going to be a large amount of money, maybe $15k. They are a nightmare and cheap, but my brother did work for them through the summer and no issues getting paid once they have issued PO's for something.
You do have to be bonded to get money up front but I don't believe you have to be to get progress payments for work completed. Lots of people plain wouldn't work for a contractor like the one you described. Not worth the hassle. If 15K isn't a large amount of money why not work on your big money jobs instead?
Ya'll must not be in Ontario. Unless there is an established relationship, or some other very specific circumstances, we wont mobilize without some money up front. When I'm feeling particularly generous, I'll make the first milestone when we mobilize to site. There's enough work for us that we will kill a deal when our payment terms aren't agreed to. Bit different with government work, but we've had similar arrangements on federal, and municipal projects.
I need to change my buissness model majority work is net 30 only for big big jobs can I get a mob fee otherwise its draw on results
Yep mine too. Mobilization is a line item on our pay apps but we have to wait 30 to 45 days depending on when we start in the pay cycle. It sucks to start work on the 27th of the month when the cut off date for monthly billing is the 25th. 2 months until you see some $$.