A couple years ago I bought a '95 F-SuperDuty off ebay from Texas. It's got a PowerStroke, 5 speed, 263,000 miles and not a speck of rust on it. It's got a flatbed with lift gate on it now, I'm going to turn it in to a dump truck. This series of Ford is lighter than today's model, and has the same GVWR, so more payload capacity. Plus, with the luck I've had with my new trucks, I'm reluctant to buy another new one.
The engine is tired, hits on 7 cylinders until it is warmed up good, and leaks oil almost as fast as you can put it in. I considered the engine to be shot when I bid on the truck, so I was expecting this. Rather than put money in to the tired PowerStroke, I've decided to repower with a 5.9 B series Cummins. Thanks to John DiMartino, I was able to pick up a used engine with 76,000 miles on it just 35 miles away, another ebay find.
2 weeks ago I was browsing ebay and came across an aluminum dump body on an '84 K30. The pictures looked good so I bought it, in Pa., 130 miles away. I picked it up this morning, and I was VERY pleased, the body is in excellent shape! Better yet, it's a J&J body, about as good as you can get! I had priced one of these for this truck at $9500, I picked up this body with hoist for $1100!! The floor only has one minor dent in it, otherwise it's smooth as can be. I figure the truck had to be refitted with this body, it couldn't be a '84 vintage. I plan to shorten the frame on the truck to match this body.
This project will take a while to complete, I have to keep the business running too. I'll keep you posted of the progress, and when it's finished show the cost in total. I plan to sell the parts that come off the truck to offset some of the expense. After a lot of thought, it seemed this would be the way to go in lieu of a new truck.
The old F-Superduty trucks are good I have had 3 of them so far and have a 95 PSD. They do haul a good load easily put 8000lbs on them even thou they are 4 wheel disk brakes they do lack a little braking power. I have had a few times I ran out of braking power. You will have a hell of a time regearing the rear axle the Dana 80 in those trucks come with two ratios 4:63s and 5:13s they don't make any other ratios unless you have something custom made. With the Cummins you will find the rear axle gears will be too low and end up over revving the engine. With the PSD its not a problem because it likes to rev to 3000 where as the Cummins has its power as you know in the lower rpms. With my truck I have to use OD or the PSD screams 4th gear is like 3rd gear in any other truck. Third gear is way too low except for pulling hills loaded. I was going to put a dumping flat on my 95 but I'am prolly going to sell it and buy a 99 or newer F-450 they have bigger brakes the rear frame rails are straight so you can mount the dump body lower. The 19.5 tires last longer I only get 18,000 miles or so out of the 16" rubber even the LTX Michelins.
I'm very partial too the Cummins 5.9's myself.They were/are a fine motor,and the old 12 valves w/mechanical pumps could be turn up too really pull hard.(24v probably could too,with chips) Seemed they had a hard time finding trannies that could hold up to the stress that the 5.9's could put into them,though.I think the ones with auto's had their engines detuned for just that reason. Might be tough to squeeze an air-to-air in there also,although it may be alright without one,if gauges are installed,and monitored to keep exhaust temps down. I imagine that the gearing problems could be corrected with an auxilary bolted on the back of the tranny.I've seen many under and overdrive models available for this type of problem. Good luck on your project Steve.
You will love that little 5.9. I used one to pull around 15K lbs for many years before I got my dump truck and averaged about 13mpg. It is a real work horse. LT9000 is correct about the trannys. Mine was a dodge 5 speed which was notorious for loosing 5th gear due to the constant pounding of the diesel loosening up the 5th gear nut. When I beefed up my engine (to 400+hp) and installed a beefier clutch, I inspected the 5th gear nut and found it tight. I peened the nut to the shaft in about 6 spots and never had a problem with it. I also never pulled hard in 5th. I used 4th for that. On the gearing problem with the rear end, I had a Dana 80 that I geared with 4:11s and then ran a GearVendor OD. It worked perfect, giving me essentially a 10 speed (actually there were 8 really usuable gears) and this helped significantly with the mileage. What did the 5.9 come from and what year is it. If you give me the cpl # on the left front of the engine I can tell you some general info on it. I spent a lot of time playing around with these engines and learned a bit in the process that I would like to pass on to you if it would help. By the way, that is a great looking dump bed - and aluminum too. What a find!!!!! Good luck on the project. These kinds of projects are really fun - unfortunately we have to work at the same time and that puts a real damper on the time available to do them.
It wasn't me that meantioned the transmission problems it was Jeff that meantioned and he is right the juicers Dodge used couldn't stand up to the Cummins. I think it was more to do with the viberations the Cummins has over the excessive power. I would go with a 6 spd manual if I was going to do the swap then you have more rpm controll plus you can run a PTO. Also you are going to have troubles with a emergency brake Ford uses the shaft brake its okay you will have to come up with a emergency brake. A local tow truck guy did a conversion on one of his F-Superduty tow trucks he used the Dodge juicer said its not that strong but he has a few wrecked Dodge Cummins P/Us so it has spares. The rear axle ratio is going to be tough as I meantioned Dana designed that diff for Ford and Chev. The two options were 4:63 and 5:13 its something to do with the housing is the reason why you can't get something taller. My IDI F-Superduty had 5:13s it pulled like a SOB but she was topped out at 50 mph. That box you found Steve looks nice I wish I could find a deal like that. I would leave the chassis as it is leave 8"s behind the rear spring hangers and put a tool box between the cab and the box. You may even might want to put a transfer tank for diesel fuel behind the cab.
that is a good deal for the body...unbelieve how much for that thing new
Steve you sored that body looks great I know how much J&J is i priced out a plain steel and it was alot.I have to say it looks better than the engine but a good coat of high temp paint will make that look nice too.
My plan is to find a Dodge 6 speed, but if that doesn't pan out, I'll get the adapter for the existing 5 speed I have. I don't want to put the L pack box on, I want to shorten up the truck for maneuverability and throw an underbody box on it. The reason for choosing this truck was to keep the payload as high as possible, an L pack loaded with tools would only take away from that. Cat, you've seen my trucks, have no fear, that engine will be real purty when it's installed, I've already located Cummins beige paint, LOL!
You guys are so so lucky parts are dirt cheap in the US you can take on a project like that. Here in B.C. Canada parts are not cheap it costs a fortune to fix up any truck. Just to stick a rebuilt PSD back into a truck like that is minimum 6000 dollars prolly looking at for a complete drop in would be 8000 dollars a new clutch is another 1200 dollars. To shorten the frame up like Steve wants to do would cost us a easy 2000 dollars by the time you cut and splice the frame, make new driveshaft and modify the fuel lines. To give you a idea on prices a steering stabilizer for that truck which you can only buy from Ford cost me 150 dollars. I tried the after market one that was supposed to work well it didn't work. If you are looking for a dump body have it built out of aluminum beleive it or not aluminum is cheaper than steel. I started building a steel flatdeck its 12x8 the steel for it cost me around 1700 dollars and I haven't finished it yet I'am looking at another 1000 dollars worth of steel to finish it. The telescoping hoist cost me 2000 dollars the PTO for the ZF is another 650 dollars the hydraulic pump is 400 and the hydraulic tank is another 200. Sad to say my deck is sitting partially done in the corner of the shop till I get more funds scraped together plus I'am so busy with my part time gov't job I barely have time to fart :yup If you can make the 6spd work even better myself I'am not too impressed with the ZF 5spd I don't think it was ever designed for a heavier truck than a 3/4 ton. When you can gross these trucks just with a load on its back to 19,000lbs like I have you need a good transmission. Some loads of gravel I had close to 10,000lbs :naughty
Steve that is one thing i know your trucks are in great shape even that old one ya hd that got hit in the acident looked great. Now i can't wait to see the finished truck. I know one time i wanted to refit my gas e 350 to a cummins and they said it would run about 10K for a recon and then another 2K for the install .
The diagonal stripes on the tailgate make me wonder if it was on a PennDOT truck. If so, that's why it's in such great shape--it never did any work...
LOL, you guessed it digger! The flaps say Penn DOT on them. It appears to have been fitted with a tailgate spreader and the donor truck had central hydraulics. The seller included a hydraulic spreader control valve and the PTO gear drive unit. The reason I'm guessing this body was retro fitted is the donor truck was rotted out beyond repair, the frame had rusted through. There is very little salt damage to the body which is the basis of my reasoning.
When you get to the point of finishing, I have some accessories for that body style. I think I still have a visor, aluminum steps (not running boards) and a bullbar bumper. The bumper is used but the rest are new still in the box. I had ordered when I was going to dress up a truck and then ended up getting the dealer to throw in the items at purchase. The bumper was for a 4wd F350 but I think it would work. I stopped using it because it had to come off for plowing every winter. Let me know, just taking up room here. I can't wait to see the progress.
By the pictures it looks like it could be a 12 valve,w/mechanical inline injection pump,non air-to-air,from a Dodge.But I've been wrong many times before. Didn't Dodge used them around 1996,or alittle earlier maybe?? Come-on Steve,don't leave us hanging man!!:bouncegri
The guy told me it was from an '89, no intercooler, it has the cross tube over the motor. I'm going to see if a cooler will fit in the Ford, I've got A/C and want to keep that so there may not be enough room. The '90 series Fords didn't have a cooler either. I'll get the numbers off the engine tag when i remember, lol
Here's what I found on the motor: It's a 6BT manufactured 12/21/88, rated at 160 hp. This truck I'm building will by no means be a race truck, but the kid in me does enjoy as much power as possible. I plan to tweak the motor a little and attempt to add an intercooler if space permits.
When you meantioned 160hp I looked at the pictures again and sure enough its the the rotary pump on it (yuck) you can talk with some of the Cummins power freaks if you can get rid of the rotary and install the inline pump. The 160 models have the real short power band your going to want the engine to atleast rev to 3000 with the gearing your stuck with in the F-Superduty. With my 95 F-Superduty stock PSD 5 spd and 4:63s the engine is revving 2500rpm at 62 mph or so with the transmission in over drive in 4th gear can easily peg the engine doing 62 mph. With the 4:63s the PSD will pull away in 3rd gear on flat ground. The empty weight of my truck is 8400lbs. With the truck fully loaded grossing 16,000lbs the PSD is pretty gutless I pull the 10-11% grades in 2nd to 3rd gear doing about 25 mph. She burns lots of fuel too loaded up get around 10 mpg.
And I am again,I guess,if it's a rotary!!:bouncegri I noticed they changed the rotary's to the inlines on the DT-466's also.What kind of problems have you heard of with the rotary's,LT? I ask cuz my 466 has one on it.
Should be a nice set-up Steve! Good luck.
The rotary pumps are similar to the ones the International 6.9 and 7.3 use they don't last long they also don't put out the fuel. The one benefit is they are cheaper over the inline Bosch pump. With the rotary pump I doubt you will get any more than 160hp out of the engine being it won't supply enough fuel for bigger squirters. Also with the newer lower sulpher diesel coming in these older mechanical engines are really burning up injection pumps because the lack of lubrication.
maybe an allison. :bouncegri Now if you could only figure out how to put the new allison 6 spd behind that cummins with solid dana axles you would have a real real truck.
Why not put a hookLift on it???
Steve is after max payload a truck with a hooklift like that one is only good for 3000lbs with 4000lbs being max. A local disposal company here has 91 F-Superduty hooklift I seen him pull on a box that must have weighed 8000lbs. Truck was so heavy the transmission powered out (auto) trying to climb a hill . When you see 7.50R-16 14 ply tires flatten out you know its heavy
I looked in to a hook lift when I bought my 550, but you just lose too much payload to the hoist mechanism. I haul aggregates which are heavy and can't afford to give up that payload capacity. Plus, I can use a dedicated dump truck, I've got a flatbed, flatbed trailer and another dump in service and don't really have the need for switching bodies.
Any updates for us yet, on this project Steve??:yup
Nothing more yet Jeff. I've been kept busy keeping working equipment running and maintained, plus some repair issues with the house. The next step will be pulling the PowerStroke and selling the core, that will help fund the project, along with selling the rack body and lift gate. I should be able to provide some more progress reports towards the end of summer.
Actually the VE pump can make some good power. There's a bunch of adjustments you can make, get a governor spring($20), and get it to about 230-240hp with stock injectors.
Very nice body Steve! That is going to be one nice truck when it is all done. LT,you arent up on the VE pumps,as there are many of these in the 500Hp+ range with RPMS well over 3000.There is one making 600rwhp on a ve pump. I advised Steve to buy the earlier 12V,due to its price being very reasonable,and the availability of them is much greater.For what he is doing,it is going to work out fine.With a $3-400 set of injectors,and some pump tweaking,the truck will make 250-300RWHP very easily. RPMs wil lbe the same as the PSD once the tweaking is done.Those early engines got great fuel mileage because the small pump has very low parasitic hp draw,the p7100 in the 94-98 trucks draws over 50HP at 3000RPM under full fuel,the Ve pump draws 15hp.For low hp trucks the fuel savings are real,and with prices where they are now,it makes a difference.I know an intercooler is in the works for Steves engine,and Im sure he going to put a 16cm turbo housing on it for quicker sppol up,and more power.Topping it off with an exhaust brake,and a set of 60PSI valve springs will be the icing on the cake.
The engine will have to rev to 3000 and make power to that point unless he changes the 4:63s that truck comes with. I don't think you will gain much fuel mileage with the Cummins over the stock PSD. When I'am grossing 16,000lbs pulling 10% grades I get about 11mpg. For us in Canada its too expensive to do a Cummins conversion unless you have access to insurance wrecks (old Dodge cummins P/U). The core charge on a B series block is 3000 dollars. A running B series your looking at 5000 dollars a fully rebuilt cummins is pushing 7000 dollars. With this new ultra low sulpher diesel fuel that is going to be used is going to be hell for mechanical injected engines.
im jealous of that body too... that thing is gonna look nice all cleaned up
Any updates Steve?
I haven't been able to locate a transmission for it so the project has been stalled for a while. I want to put a Dodge 6 speed behind it ideally so I don't have to mess with an adapter plate for my 5 speed, this way I just need to fab up a driveshaft. Through the winter I'm going to pull the PowerStroke out and get the flatbed off.
One of the tow companies has done couple cummins swaps on his F-Superduty trucks he puts the transmission that come out of the Dodge into his truck. He had to make a custom piece for the driveshaft brake and be damned if I can remember what he said he used. I know the trucks he had the Cummins out of were both 4x4s I wouldn't throw out the the tail shaft piece off the ZF in the truck you might have to make a shaft and adaptor so you can take the transfer case off the 6spd and mount the brake assembly tail shaft.
Check out www.fordcummins.com , these guys have been doing the cummins swap for quite a while.:bash
Several members have had a lot of trouble with parts from fordcummins.com.I would do some reading on the TDR in the cummins conversion section before buying anything from them.
I heard that guy is sort of a con-artist and read on another site that people have had troubles with the company. I think Cummins offers a kit to put the 5.9 into other brand trucks.
Steve, if you do decide to go with an adapter then try Advanced Adapters . This is the place all us 4x4 nuts use and it is nationally recognised by many 4x4 shows for their high qualiy adapters. They also do custom adapters that are not on the market.
Thanks Countryboy!
Autoworld or something like that makes some beef Cummins conversions. I have seen installs in a 450 and a out of the box 550.