If a person that is retired is thinking about purchasing a machine of some sort. Just curious what are the risks of a loss of dollars on the 40 plus to 50 year old high priced stuff out there? Not knowing for sure where the economy is heading as well as regulations against older diesel engines, and then of course all the mechanical problems and old machine that age can have. I'm just worried the day may come a rule is made that to use that old tractor or what ever they will make you retrofit a tesla electric motor and battery pack that all costs as much as an almost new machine. Looking for some thought on it. I just don't want to end up with thousands of dollars of over priced scrap metal.
sometimes to live you have to dream and take a risk. I think that the older the iron, the less likely that A) you are going to do production work with it. B) any authority is going to view it as a production piece that needs to meet regulation. If you yearn for some old iron, get it.
One thing I have found, on here, and at work. If you are going to own the machine, you gotta be ready to spend some serious cash for repairs. There was a post on here not long ago about a $3000 forward reverse switch on a case loader. He found internal parts on line, and was going to attempt the repair of the switch, but what if a customer was waiting? Cash bolt on vs a couple weeks wait for overseas parts that might not work. Bushings for my Volvo grader, 300 each for 2. wiper motor on one machine $1800. Not saying don't make a leap, but have lots of cash in the bank for that repair that hopefully will never come.
Looking at the OP, nobody buys a 40~50 year old machine to do production work. Waiting is the name of the game and doing your own work, being very handy or having very handy friends.
If I was purchasing a machine to work on my own property, I wouldn't be too concerned about regulations
Shop, dont buy the first one you see. Do what you want the way you want but not sure I would be interested in tossing retirement into equipment unless you have a fistful more than you need. Cheap enough and enough biz sense a guy could come out ok if he has something lined up but this is a foreward looking biz, often takes a long time to recapitalize unless there is some expertise hidden in here,,, in that case a guy probably not asking beginner questions on a forum.
Forty plus year old machine means pre 1980. What makes you think you have any chance at all making any money on something that old? Emissions regulations started in 1996. That was twenty five years ago and no engines have been produced for any machines that are Tier 0 which is pre 1996. All were required to be destroyed if turned in for core. The best that could happen is someone may have parts to rebuild that dinosaur engine. If you want a toy or a yard ornament then OK. Going into business requires a minimum amount of capital. It is a hurdle that weeds out the pretenders and shows other businesses your commitment. A company using a forty year old machine to dig a ditch is showing others that it is likely they may not survive long enough to complete their first job.
"All were required to be destroyed if turned in for core." I still see lots of ad's for rebuilt D353's, D342's and such? And I think there are still some D399's and smaller powering boats and gensets? And all demanding pretty top dollar for the rebuilds. So was that at the Cat dealerships that they had to destroy them? I'm not looking for a full time business deal just a niche part time deal.
We run some 30 year old iron I have some 25 year old iron that works 2 to 3 days a week if you are going to push old iron for a biz you have to have your own backup machines your own parts inventory and be able to do the lions share of the wrenching and then it can actually be fairly lucrative if you have 4 of the same thing and parts for all of it bit it takes a hefty sum of money to get there
You can rebuild nearly anything so far. You just can't manufacture things like engine blocks, heads and crankshafts if the engine can't be made to meet current emissions regulations. In any case things are changing and you can't be sure that there won't be some edict come down that says all diesel engines must meet a spec or they can't be used. Ten to fifteen year old stuff is fine for the time being. But it costs more than scrap value.
I fully agree with what your saying John.
IMO anything older then about 25 years isn't good for anyone trying to make money with it. Older stuff is ok for a acreage or farm for someone who doesn't need to get anything done in a hurry, and is very mechanically inclined and doesn't value their time really highly, or someone who's had the thing forever and it keeps going without issue then it makes sense to keep it. It's not easy to find but there are still good used equipment that won't break the bank, even 15-20 years old most companies won't touch so prices are decent and it's still modern enough to do decent production and not new enough to have a bunch of emissions or electronics on it.
I am not knowledgeable on the emissions and rules of older equipment. Aside from that my opinion is don't buy anything you're not prepared to rebuild. Are you going to run it enough to justify the expense of fixing it if it breaks?
And that is why machinery older than 30 years should not be priced what it was 20 years ago.
Not everything has to be rebuilt. If its working might be fine as long as the guy needs it. Does this really sound like something gonna have 2 shifts every day on it?
Completely and totally disagree. I could write a novel on machines that are beyond that age, and still better than anything made today. Now, if you had said 40 years old, I can accept that, even though I'm sure there are more D7Gs still working that some want to admit.
We had a G, worked every day. Replaced it with an RXL. Can't do half the work the 7 did.
Gosh even the old manual transmission clutch lever dozers like a 2U are priced at crazy prices, makes no sense, one of those sure is not going out on a city or county job site. I guess its that gold dust in the paint jobs that are the reason.
If they did not have any value you would not be looking at them. Value in scrap metal, value in parts and value to a person trying to be cheap like you are.
The 7G is a bad example as of at least 2008 Cat was still building them .The military used these into the 2000's and surplused them out and alot of those had the Armory rebuilds like new machines. Although parts are out there rebuild prices are about the same as newer tractors. Bob
My cousin still runs around 4 46a configuration cats for development of subdivisions they have owned that stuff since grandpa and great uncle were in partners 50 years ago
Just a question for the OP. What prices are you considering crazy? You might post the a link to an ad you are looking at.
With unknowns, like coming regulations, things breaking on the machine (can happen no matter how good you check it out), the slippery economy, you can spend 30 or 40k on something tomorrow that will be worth next to nothing next month. So the less the original outlay the better, correct? Value in scrap metal would be $9200 today for a 40 ton pile of scrap steel. How much time and gas to turn something into scrap? So the value is less than scrap value. But paying 12 to 15k for an old almost 50 year junker lessens the impact. Its just being smart and common sense to me. "Trying to be cheap" an older retired guy with only a few eggs in the basket can only gamble so many of them.
Not saying this is you by any stretch, but cheap asses with zero heavy equipment experience that think they should go buy some yellow iron instead of paying a professional to do work are the ones that suffer these fates.
So I'm trying to remember, I think all together I have over 20 years of heavy equipment experience, operating and mechanics. Its not being a cheap __________ its being smart. Some people are proud and brag about how much they spend, some can't gamble like that. If there is a major disaster all the so called professionals will be unavailable. Here is an example.
Short of having a crystal ball buying any equipment a gamble even new equipment is a risk new old in between it all breaks down I have more confidence in my equipment from the 90s than I do the stuff made 2 years ago Prices are high right now will be till either the market crashes or the manufacturer of new equipment out paces demand the generation of machines being produced today is likely to be the best stuff turned out in a decade maybe a little more because they are removing egr and the electronic components are starting to be reliable and not field trial I dont know of anyone that's ever bought equipment to do a job that said well if all else fails I can scrap it and get my money cause the only value it would have is about 70 percent of the scrap and never before have I seen small equipment particularly priced if it was functioning in a fashion
This is why I run 95E tractors, an old 1150G dozer, and a ISX with a disabled EGR valve. The 2014 excavator that we bought new has had more issues than all our other equipment combined. My tractors are reliable, and I'd much rather put the $150k in my pocket instead of spending it on newer tractors.
"Trying to be cheap" an older retired guy with only a few eggs in the basket can only gamble so many of them." Why bother?
True with anything in life. I guess the video above best explains it though.
What is your point in this conversation? The video explains nothing concerning old worn out equipment and points to nothing that you have said. If you have the experience that you claim, you would have answered your own questions before posting them here.
Video was an answer to questions from someone I did not reread the thread. I asked questions for more input I guess and to see what others have to say. A recent death of someone very close has clouded the mind I suppose.
It depends on the particular machine and how hard it's been used. There are plenty of 60-year-old overshot muckers still in use, and 50-year-old machinery isn't unusual to see at a small mine. I know of a 1953 Gardner Denver piston compressor that was putting in great service at a gold mine last year. Fixed process equipment is another matter entirely - hitting the century mark isn't unheard of. The real trick is to find old iron that hasn't been run hard for long, but hasn't sat long enough to develop issues from rodent damage and water intrusion.
A lot depends on the operator. A good experienced operator could do more work on a 40 year old machine than some "rich" guy could do on a 5 year old machine.