So I looked around in here for a while, I am sure this info is in here somewhere but it eludes me so far. I just rebuilt one of the front bucket lift cylinders on my 410D because it ate up a seal, the question is, the big locking nut on the shaft/rod I had a good time getting it off, I broke 2 1 5/8 wrenches using an 8foot breaker bar and it just laughed at my 1 inch impact and eventually decided to heat it up to get it off which worked but still even glowing red gave my giant impact a hard time, I would like to ask the knowledgeable forum people here would the heating cause any issues with this shaft under load and I am having a hard time finding a new locking nut for it so what are some thoughts on reusing the nut with some lock tight since I burned the plastic out of it, if anyone could find a part number for the nut my hoe is a '96 410D serial number t0410dg819318 Thanks for any reply
R81866 looks like substituted to: Part Number H170538 Description Nut - NUT, HEX, M27X2 This is the BOOM LIFT CYLINDER, the bucket TILT cylinder might be below, or it might be the same as above. Easy to measure your threads. Part Number H170539 Description Nut - NUT, HEX, M30X2 All this is easy to find on JDparts.com which is now partscatalog.deere.com or something. Typically a nut like that requires a 1" drive socket and long cheater bar, if it has locktite, it needs 300-400F to soften the locktite, shouldn't need red hot. Put the new nut on TIGHT, with a cheater bar and a gorrilla of the proper weight at the proper distance, not bouncing.
Thanks for the reply Delmer, What are your thoughts about re-using the nut with some locktight or without locktight or do not re-use it at all?
Call your local Deere ag dealer with the number to see if they have one, can get one, how much. Then make the decision. I would use it with locktite, but only if you have to. Use locktite on the new nut also. And make sure it's exactly tight as specc'd.
If that nut was red hot, then chances are slim and none that it will be grade 8 quality any longer. I would try to find another one. If you have ever seen the inside of a cylinder where that nut came loose you realize why torque specs need to be met.
My thought as well. If it was warmed up, that is one thing, but glowing red hot is ng. That said, I have seen elastic stop nuts reused (they are usually rated of one use) by adding loctite for the second use, without incident.
Can you borrow or justify a purchase of an impact? I borrowed a Milwaukee 1/2” drive cordless, used a 3/4” drive socket and 1/2” x3/4 “ adapter. Worked great on my John Deere 310B cylinder rod nuts. We did all cylinders on the backhoe, including the stabilizers. The largest one was the boom and it required a 2-1/4” socket, a little tough but a little heat with mapp gas and it came off. Actually we found it worked by just standing on a pipe through the pin hole and using the impact.
I've not worked on a 410D but I'm surprised your 1" impact didn't take it off. Is it a quality impact gun or a Harbor Freight gun? What size airline and fittings are you using? Even the Harbor Freight guns have a decent amount of torque if you run them on a 3/4" ID line with a beefy compressor (or large receiver tank). If you're running it from a little 3/8" ID or 1/2" ID line with quick connect fittings, you're neutering that thing. We have an IR 2850Max at work that runs on a 3/4" hose and it consumes something like 50 scfm at 90 psi. I know the HF guns claim you can run them on a 1/2" line and get 2500 ft-lbs out of 'em but I call BS.
I rebuilt most of the cylinders on a 310 John Deere. I put a punch mark on the end of the threaded rod and nut and removed the nuts with a worn out 3/4" drive IR impact. Tightened them so the marks lined up again without a problem.
That nut can be bought from a lot of different vendors on the internet. Here is one of them.
I missed ‘it just laughed at my 1” impact’ But would agree with Fasttrack
Thanks for all the replies, I put it back together today, it was the first time I found the time to do it, its all back together but one last issue, that springed pin on the tractor side of the cylinder is not kicking out enough to allow me to put the ring back on it,if I push it in it will pop back out to about but is still not far enough for me to get something on it to pull it back out. I ran out of time today before I could look on the inside of the tractor to see if there is somewhere in there to push it out or something, is there a trick to that?
Rednecks use a spud wrench. Use a proper sized impact socket. Cut a triangle of steel as thick as your torch can cut, 20" long. Burn a round hole, big as the OD of the socket. Weld the socket to it. A 10 LB sledge hammer usually does the business. A slightly more sophisticated system has a fixture to secure the cylinder. Another hydraulic cylinder hangs from a track, it has a cup on its end. This second cylinder does the pushing on the spud wrench.
That old homemade wrench has as few more sizes cut in by now and some sledge hammer marks I usually use a 25 ton helper makes those tight nuts drama free I just dont trust breaker bars and bouncing on pipes kind of thing
I'm going to need a picture to understand what's going on here. I've done it on a different size C, but don't remember any trick.
I am not home to take a pic of my machine at the moment, but this is hoe is the same, it is the pin on the tractor side of what would be the passenger side of the hoe front bucket lift cylinder, it is like a hydraulic lifter I can pump it up so to speak, seems to be a spring behind it, I should have paid more attn to it while I had the cylinder off
Perhaps the "rednecks" call it so... A "Spud" wrench has a tapered handle to align the bolt holes. The correct term is "Slugging or Striking" wrench.
A big lady slipper bar should hold the pin out. I bought a full set of them quite awhile ago. They are useful for removing injectors on some engines.
Thanks for the help here guys I appreciate it, I had some time today so I got that pin pulled out, still curious why it seemingly has spring behind it or something, anyway here is a picture of my hoe from today with that pin all pushed back into its socket.
A picture(s) is worth a thousand words ! How is the pin retained in the bushing ? Cap screw and washer ? I never understood why you were having so much trouble. It acts like there is a spring behind it because pulling it out creates a tremendous vacuum in what I think is dead end hole. A pin with a center hole all the way through it would make life a lot more easier. IMHO of course.
Ya reaching around to the inside of that thing there is no access to push it out from there, you would think there would be a relief hole back there or something, it only took about 15 min to jimmy it out, I ended up using the thinnest channel locks in my arsenal and moving it about 1/4 inch at a time and using a big magnet to keep it from sliding back in. I paid a local mobile heavy repair outfit to rebuild that cylinder 2 years ago, apparently, they did not setup something right as I just got thru rebuilding it again, the cylinder and rod look perfect no mars or scratches of any kind. I have not fired it up yet, I filled the cylinder with oil but ran out after that, I need to go buy another bucket to fill the reservoir now so I can check my work, thanks again for all the help people.
No relief hole is another example of design engineers that are too ignorant to realize the problems they create when something has to be repaired. If the cylinder leaks down when you get it running again you may have a problem in the control valve. I just determined that myself after 2 cylinder reseals. I have either a worn spool or a crack in the valve body. I am waiting for a replacement valve section as I type this.
Mine blew out a seal in the cylinder and pissed out oil all over the place, The seal that blew was one of the soft ones it was almost in half when I got it apart so hopefully no control value issues here.
When you start any cylinder that may have air in it, run it back and forth several times without hitting the end of the stroke. In this case with a closed center system, use another big function with no load at the same time, so tilt the backhoe stick in and out full speed, but engine at idle, while you extend and retract this cylinder to flush the air out, without compressing it to ignition point which can damage seals.
Ok will do, I filled the cylinder as much as I could but alot of air still, it only took about a quart of oil as the gland was 2/3 of the way to the back of the cylinder. When you say no load do you also mean without being connected to the bucket or just connected to an empty bucket?
An empty bucket is ok .
@Tinkerer Thanks.
I’d like to hear what you did on reassembly to - clean the bolt threads - was thread locker used , what kind? - how tight did you make the nut and how did you determine the torque you set it to? The service manual is very specific on this re-torquing and I never was fully confident that when I did it I had the correct thread locker (I used Loctite blue) or that I got the bolt tight enough (1800 ft/lbs +)
The bolt threads didnt need much brushing as I had to use heat to get it loose so most of the old locktite was gone when the bolt came off. I used the hydraulic friendly permatex 59235 here is a link to it https://permatex.com/products/threa...rmatex-high-temperature-thread-sealant-50-ml/ As far as how tight, I do not have a torque wrench that is that heavy so I put an 8 foot heavy break over bar on a heavy duty cresent and put it on as tight as I could get it smoothly and without "bouncing" I am a big guy 6'1 275lbs I thought it was going to strip or break I was pushing so hard on it, but it didnt and all was good I guess I was giving myself a little to much credit for how strong I am haha. I am not sure the ft/lbs of torque I applied but it was alot, 8ft is alot of leverage. permetex said let it sit for 3 days before stressing the thread compound, its been 5 days and I just got back from making the long drive to get a couple buckets of oil so I am going fill it and fire it up today. in case anyone want to see the the gland here are a few pics before the rebuild.
8' x 275#= 2,200 foot pounds, simple as that. Assuming the pipe was close to horizontal, and your grip was centered at 8', and no bouncing, just dead weight.
Thanks Delmer for that info, by that I guess I got it on tight enough then. I just came back inside from filling it and running it for the first time since the rebuild, I did as you said in the previous post about tilting it and the hoe stick at the same time, I did it ten times like that so I think it should be full now and ready for work, no leaks everything looks good, thanks for all the help for this old farmer. The cylinder inside the hoe stick has had a small leak since I have owned it (6 years) I am dreading doing that one, I may have to hire that out, looks like a real pain just to get the cylinder out to work on it.
“The cylinder inside the hoe stick has had a small leak since I have owned it (6 years) I am dreading doing that one” And to think I was dreading doing the two swing cylinders at the base of my hoe, my guess is they are easy compared to pulling out the cylinder in the stick.
@Birdseye I see you are from Topeka, I am on the Topeka side of Oskaloosa just about 20 min up the road from you. I did the swing cyl's the first year I had my hoe they were not bad at all to do.