Talked about a will in the past but never really did anything. I'm old enough I should have one and with my current severe back pain issues was thinking about it more. I don't have my own kids but have some nieces and nephews. The nephew from my brother has never really talked to me even after I've sent birthday and Christmas gifts. He was quite young at the time but even when I phoned to talk to him, my brother would say he doesn't want to talk right now. (my sisters kids used to run to the phone when I called) I just sent him a pretty nice Christmas present. I think some (maybe all) of it is my brother and his wife's doing. My brother feels hard done by because my dads will specified I had the first option to buy out my other siblings of the acreage (10 acres). I lived there most of the time my dad was alive and did most of the work there. My brother thought I was getting special treatment. Everything was evenly divided and if I chose to buy out the other siblings, it would be based on 2 appraisals. My other sisters had no problem with this at all. One sister is a half sister (on dad's side) but haven't talked to her or her kids since my dads funeral. She was always super nice though and said what ever price is decided is fine as it's still an unexpected gift ( for lack of a better term). Other sister I get along good with and a couple years ago her kids begged me to come and visit them, which I did. Her son is dealing with some issues and after my sister talked to him he texted a thanks for his birthday gift. I called my niece who just turned 17 to wish her a happy birthday. I didn't send a gift because I wasn't working but have on other B day's and at Christmas. I called my sister and she said my niece tried to text me but I never received anything. I called my sister again and she said I should try calling my niece. My sister uses the excuse that she's a teenager and has other stuff going on. I recently found out my niece isn't at home much and stays at a friends place. Sister wouldn't say much more than that. My question is how much I should will to nieces and nephews that can't take 2 minutes to call and thank me for remembering their B Day's and sending gift's at Christmas? I'm not rich but do have several hundred thousand in assets. My partner says I'm being too harsh if I cut them out of some or all of their inheritance. My feeling is why should they get a substantial inheritance when they can't be bothered to at least give a call a couple times a year. Anybody else have a similar dilemma or thoughts on the subject?
Just curious,.. who's this 'partner' you mentioned and would you not consider leaving something to he/she?
She's my common law partner and will get something but she doesn't need any money. She would rather see it go to younger relatives who could maybe use it. There's a few people I'd like to give something too but hopefully that will be 30+ years down the road. Just undecided on how much the relatives deserve.
Leave it to a charity you like, animal shelter, hospital, or such. Start a endowment or scholarship at a trade school or college. Leave it to the track for grandstands or maintenance for the next 10 years. I don't think it matters at all whether the nieces and nephews get anything in your will, and I don't think it should matter if they sent thank you notes. If you like someone and want to leave them something that's great, if you don't its really none of anyone's business. I think they should know nothing about your will, until its read when you're gone. A gift is a gift, with no expectations of returns. A gift, with expectations of a thank you note, and the knowledge of "I better be nice to Uncle Dave because he's leaving me $$$ when he's gone", well that's a whole different can of worms. I'm damaged goods on this subject, I had a grandma who spent my childhood describing in detail, who got what, when she was gone. All the time. Every item in the house had stickers on the bottom of them, and the stickers rotated depending on who was "in" and who was "out". My mother has similar tendencies, and I'm a horrible son about it. I don't want to know a thing about any of it, until they are gone, and I'll deal with it all then. My mom wants to talk about it, and I won't. Growing up in a farming community, I've seen it all. Some men live their lives waiting on "dead man's shoes". Some children spending their lives on a family farm, to watch it split with six other siblings who never touched it. Seen the child who farmed- end up with all of the farm and the other children "unfairly" cut out of it. Seen a father farm with his son, retire, and that son lose the farm, and other siblings resent that son for losing the farm. Inheritance is a minefield= money and family and hurt feelings is a constant story. I've known some pretty miserable people, who've received large, life changing inheritance checks, and it didn't make them any less miserable or useless. Good luck dave, and I hope you don't need the will for another 30 years. The nieces and nephews "deserve" nothing, if you want to "give" them something, that's your choice, and no one elses.
I’ve been through this from several perspectives. I know exactly what my parents are doing, dad because I’ve been on his stuff for years. Mom because she’s seen a few estates handled poorly and she also wants to make sure family heirlooms are taken care of. She’s got a book made up with instructions for how she wants everything handled. She’s just that way. I’ve seen some estates that were a freakin train wreck. Been involved in a couple. Here’s what I’ve learned....it doesn’t matter who you leave what to. The important thing is that you’ve made it clear what goes where. Don’t leave much open to interpretation or they’ll fight over it. People you didn’t think had a mean bone in their body will fight over a $.99 keepsake from Disney land like is the last spot on Noah’s Ark and the sky is black. As far as your family goes, if you don’t want to leave them something, don’t. You can always go back and change it should you decide. I wouldn’t speak a word of your plans to anybody that doesn’t need to know. Too much potential drama. It’s a great thing that you’re planning ahead. That will save your partner a lot of grief, especially being common law. Families get plum crazy with outsiders (in their mind). At 42 I’ve actually started mine, I’ve always hand written one when I went on a trip because I didn’t want the state to decide who my kids go to. Beyond that I’ve got a lot of ****. Some is worth keeping and some isn’t. The family doesn’t have a clue what’s valuable and what isn’t, so much like mom I’m making a book. It was kind of funny the first time I sat down to draw it up. The last time I did I was a very young man and didn’t have two nickels to rub together but they said I needed one. Take your time, trust your gut and it’ll be fine. It’s your stuff anyway, doesn’t matter who gets it. The idea that a specific person is entitled to something because of genetics is pure garbage. One more thought, I urge you to make a lawyer or somebody out of the family the executor. That sure cuts down on the family politics and doesn’t single out anybody. Mom’s trust is managed by the bank and an officer there is the trustee and executor.
Nothing like the reading of the will to make or break a family. My mother's sister married a man that drove horse teams in the woods. Over the years, he became a successful business man. He was a heavy drinker, and quite abusive I found out later. After 40 some years, he and my aunt called it quits. My aunt was urged by a lawyer to get her share in the divorce. She only wanted enough to live on, and a piece of land that belonged to my grandfather to build a cottage. After getting the papers in the mail, my uncle got drunk, went to her apt, beat her around, and said if she took one cent, he would put her in the ground. She called the lawyer and told her to get what she had coming. She got the land she wanted, her wage out of his company, she was still vice president until she turned 65, and 7.8 million bucks. Guess uncle was worth a lot more than I knew. The year she turned 65, she was diagnosed with cancer, and 5 years later, she died. Her will was incomplete. Her 5 kids ended up in court. All but the oldest were quite well off to begin with. But it was quite a battle. When he died, everything was laid out in detail, between kids and grand kids, no fights. My father had a will, but didn't have much to show for 50 plus years of pulling wrenches, except for 5 kids. I got his tools, and his truck ( I'm the baby) my siblings got a few of his personal effects. My pride and joy, are the 3 little wrenches he used to carry in his pocket, and his hankies. He used to carry one of those blue and white, or red and white hankies, and he had white ones for Sundays. We all took a daily snot rag, and a Sunday one.
My dad was an undertaker for almost 50 years, nothing like a death in the family to bring out the worst in people.... A good friends grandmother passed at home, he was the exectuor...dad picked up grannie, asked when Brian when wanted to make arrangements, "as soon as I change every lock in this house! Ain't no crap going to go on here!" Ed
The best advice I can give anybody is before you go thru the expense of a will, research putting your assets in a trust that can be usually is solely owned by you, or by you and your partner or anyone you want. To change it you would need all signatures. State laws vary, but here in MN, if you have more than $75,000 in titled assets, your estate goes to state probate even if you have a will. That's not even a new pickup any more in some cases, much less your house. At probate the state taxes the estate first and then what's left goes to the benefactors as willed, each be taxed on their share again. A will can be challenged in court, a trust cannot. Here, if you have a trust instead of a will, the state has no say in it at all. My sister and her husband rushed through getting a trust established when he was dying of cancer. They did complete it in time. They were both owners of it and it spelled out whom got what on either or both of their deaths. When my BIL died they was no issues, the trust and the executers took care of a $500,000 dollar farm and estate with no drama and no court even though there was multiple split families involved. The trust legally can and usually does specify that if anyone contests it, they will be cut out out. It has held up in court every time it has been contested. Ours specifies that if a benefactor has a drug or alcohol problem them must be clean and sober for 5 years to get there specified piece of the donut. My sister claims that it was the best $3,000 dollars they ever spent. Ours cost about the same and we get free updates for life. On ours the other partner takes over as sole owner on one of our deaths. That person is free to change what they want after the others death. You can change it at anytime as you own it and are the managing partner, and you can add and drop titled assets by yourself simply by adding them to the asset sheet. Well worth checking out in your state. EDIT, In a trust the executers only monitor that the trust officials disperse per the trust. The trust firm handles all the disbursement, title transfers and all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We have trusts as well. No inheritance taxes, no probate, no court battles, and easy to change at a moments notice.
Old iron is spot on about a trust. Inheritances are a state law issue, across the Canadian border there are probably even more distinct differences. A trust is essentially You, Incorporated. As such, your businesses can continue past your death. My wife and I have separate revocable trusts. All assets, titled or not, are owned by the trust. While we are alive we have complete control of all assets. The trust becomes irrevocable upon death. Upon our death each of our assets will be held in trust for the benefit of the other, then to the children. If the surviving spouse remarries, the trust assets can be drawn on for the yearly income, but the assets still pass to the children of the marriage. Lawyers have specialties just like other professions. You need one that specializes in trusts and assets. You won't take your grader to a passenger car mechanic, will you? As far as what to do with the money? Its yours, do what you want. If your nieces and nephews don't like it, well, the grass on your grave will always be well watered. As has been mentioned, you might establish a scholarship in your name. Specify how it is to be awarded. Here, there is a county organization that will administer endowments for a 10% fee. You can establish the rules they will use to award the funds. A simple estate going thru probate will typically lose 25% of its value to the lawsters. Here in the US, there are also documents for durable power of attorney. Who will manage your affairs if you are incapable? There are also living wills. What will happen if you have no hope of recovery and are unable to carry out any of life's functions? Down here anyway, the doctors will keep you alive long enough to perform a complete walletectomy. There will not be any estate left for the heirs. My living will specifies conditions and people to pull the plug if I am incapable.
Yep, trust, they can be as simple or as complex as needed, but mostly keeps the pocket picking nanny state out of your business. As to who gets what, you don't owe anybody anything. Period. I told my parents, as my Dad told his, "It's your money, not mine, please spend it all before you go." I did suggest it would be a blessing if they had the funeral expenses covered, and that was done. Dad's still with us at 90, and we have a simple trust that leaves the property and cash divided between the two granddaughters, one each from my brother and I. Told the old man my brother and I didn't deserve anything, lol.
What gets me is my sisters son and daughter used to want to talk to me all the time. I was essentially the "cool" uncle. The idea that my niece is a teenager now I think is a lame excuse. Even if not a call a text is pretty simple, especially on an I-phone 11. My dad tried to make everything equal among his kids and my brother takes exception I got first dibs on the acreage I lived on for 17 put of the 19 years my dad owned it. I cut the grass, helped plant tree's, cultivated the field when he had several hundred tree's and then cut the grass after the tree's were sold. I also cleared the snow in the winter and build up a pad to build the garage on. My brother lived there briefly and had all kinds of plans on how to improve it but only came out a couple times to do anything. He lived about 20 minutes away in the city. He also thought the selling price should be higher. He thought I should pay $5000 more. Split 4 ways gives him $1250 more. I walk away and he's going to get a lot less and have a lot more work to do to sell it. Might take a a couple weeks or might take over a year. My dad made him the executor because he was the oldest and also because it's a royal PIA to be an executor. Me buying it eliminates getting a realtor involved and all the fee's and associated commissions as well as not having to list it. My brother would have got less. I could have said forget it and walked away. My brother would have probably had to come from another province to take care of it and who knows how long it would take to sell. I also think my brothers wife had a lot of say. I always remember the WKRP in Cincinnati episode where the wealthy old guy made a video will. It was classic. WKRP in Cincinnati Jennifer and the Will - YouTube I want to keep things fair and realize I shouldn't expect anything in return from a gift or a phone call. It's just kind of sad I didn't get call or even a text, especially now with my back being in agonizing pain. The teenager excuse I think is BS but I think something else is going on my sister won't talk about. In the past they'd be phoning to see how I'm doing. I'm always the one phoning at Christmas and on B day's. I haven't talked to my brothers son in over 15 years. He does 3D animation similar to what giant Industrial Light and Magic does. Some really cool stuff but I don't really know much else about him. I remember seeing Oprah and I was so disgusted. She said it doesn't matter what it is, even a card but you should send something to someone who's close to you. I think just a phone call and they will be delighted. What if the person is really struggling financially and can't afford to send a gift or even a card.
You need to watch how that stuff is worded. My wife always talked about her wealthy grandmother. The last 7 years of her life, she had dementia. Some time after she passed, she got a call from a lawyer that wanted her address, and would be receiving paperwork related to her grandmother's estate, and anything that would be coming to her. The estate was to be divided up between the 3 brothers. My wife's father had passed away 20 years ago. He died without a will, and his brother made sure, my wife, his only child got nothing. The paper work came in the mail, and outlined the 3 way split. She stood to get around a hundred grand, and some property along a sought after river front area. A week later, the lawyer called, and said she could disregard the will, as the uncle had his own lawyer contact her grandmothers lawyer about the wording of the will. in short, at her death, everything was split between the three brothers. If the oldest brother had died before the old lady, his 3rd was to be divided between his kids, or charges, same with the middle brother. The wife's father, the youngest had no kids when the will was made, so his 3rd was to be split between the older brothers, or their charges. Once again, the oldest brother made sure my wife got nothing, as the grandmother's lawyer was just going to do the 3 way, and be done with it.
Just DAMN SURE U APPOINT AN EXECUTOR.. or else a probate judge will.!!! And they get PAID FROM YOUR ASSETS.!!! If u don’t do anything else, ELECT AN EXECUTOR.!!! I’ve got some hellacious stories about it.!!
Have not thought about Jennifer in a lot of years. Makes me think of the turkey incident. I played with my brother, and sisters kids when they were small, but I never hear from them. I had my daughter late in life, she's 10. For a time, there was no one like my mother, and my oldest sister for her, but now she never wants to go stay over night with them. Hard to get her to call mom and thank her for a gift. In person she is all "Nana I missed you so much". My sisters boys are in their late 20s, and I never hear from them. We talk if they are at a family gathering. Hell, the oldest boy has a son that is a year older than my daughter. I think as we get older, we discover that family is more important. I talk to my siblings at least once a week. we are all within 20 miles of each other except one sister that is a 13 hour drive away in Toronto.
Find yourself a good family law attorney and discuss this with them. They will help you arrive at the best answer for you. As far as the division, it is your money, you get to decide who to leave it to, do whatever makes you happiest. Personally, I wouldn’t give it to a kid who didn’t want to spend time with me.
Fair is not equal. Equal is not fair. You never really know someone until you share an inheritance with them.
I'll probably make my common law partner the executor. She'd be very fair and explain why I did what I did. It might be my back pain talking right now but I don't think anyone should just expect to get an inheritance. I think I said previously that I'm always the one who calls at Christmas and birthdays. On a job application, my about to be boss said I gave the best answer ever. I forget the actual question but my response was "I treat everyone the same(respect) until they give me a reason not to". He said that was the best response he ever heard. It's a lot easier getting along with people, even if you don't like them, than being constantly at odds with them. I can put up with a lot but go over that limit and I'll put you in your place.
I'd have a hard time giving something to someone who is not appreciative. Call those nieces or nephews and ask them for a favor. See who volunteers, and who blows you off.
As far as your house & contents.. There’s this thing called a SURVIVORSHIP DEED.. U and your significant other sign a contract & u file it w your county office.. So when 1 or the other passes.. the house and contents are AUTOMATICALLY transferred to the other with NO WAITING ON PROBATE COURT.!! I went thru this and was afraid I was going to get kicked out of MY HOME.. so I called and asked.. The county official said the probate can take up to a year.. UNLESS U have a survivorship deed.. I yelled. I HAVE 1..(lol) she said then it’s yours and NOBODY can kick u out..
No house on the land but a 40x60 pole shed put up in late 2015.
In Illinois that type of deed is called a sole right of survivorship. There is a downfall to them tho, at least for me, and that is, my wife has developed a severe case of dementia. I will be talking to an attorney about what to do about those deeds as soon as I get full protection from my Covid shots. I get the second shot this coming Friday. YAY !!
Sorry to hear that Tinkerer.
I am the executor of an estate as we speak. I thought everything would be cut and dried. Well his late wife who died in Columbia has no death certificate. They had a joint checking account. I took that money and put it into a estate account and started paying his bills. The bank wanted a death certificate, which I can't produce and they took the money out. They then put it into the old account and sent me a letter stating I am personally responsible to restore the account back to time of death. I started another estate account at another bank and have sold the house so I got money again. Fifty four thousand dollars sits in the first bank on their balance sheet that I am unsure what will happen to. Then the kicker to all this is, she was still getting social security checks sent to Bogota. I am sure her family has a joint account and enjoyed 7 or 8 thousand a year since 2014. I found this out unofficially from a social security agent. It has been 4 months since I called the inspector general and they stopped payments. There has been no " where are my benefits?" To date from her. The whole point is get it done!!! Inheritance is a gift from one generation to the next. Your executor will have to send a letter to all known heirs notifying them of your death. They, as far as I know can't contest what you lay out unless it is something really out there. I was in contact with the banker when I had power of attorney and could have transferred the money into another account, but I didn't in any way want to be perceived as a gold digger. Back to what I said earlier, get it done!!!!
My will quite clearly states that those who choose not to be part of my life won't be part of my death. Another way of circumnavigating the BS after you die is to divide up and give to those you think are deserving before you die
Inheritance is not a gift from one generation to the next. Inheritance is a gift to the government. Set up a trust and cut the government out of the equation.
THIS!!^^^^^^
Wills and inheritance bring out the absolute worst in some people. Too sad. Maybe the idea of spending all your money or donating it before you pass is the best way to do it.
And another upside of doing that is when the people who missed out find out you can stick a bur under their saddle n die with a grin on your face.
I set up a trust some years ago, was before many of the nieces and nephews got all important feeling where we are pretty well left out as relatives, wife tried being insistent as to a great Niece getting something and I said NO as she has next to nothing to do with us unless needs money. Wife wanted to make sure everyone got something and I chose a different route, decided only the two nephews that gave a crap enough to call and check on us or did not argue politics with me would get it all. The one in TX and the other here are listed as co-executors of the estate, it is controlled by them to divvy out as THEY see fit(Written Instruction NOT in the Trust) not as wife wanted it should we both part at same time(Cycle wreck?) or I survive the wife and pass last. Wife has NO Clue as to how the world runs, wanted little part of getting it written and was rather snippy as placed nephew on my side as TOD on machine titles. Ours is revocable, can change it at will where I know can be challenged in courts but usually are not. Not worth a lot, have some investments moneys flowing in and some value to property is about all. Just do NOT want Uncle Sam or State to get it all. Wife has a few dollars in jewelry, have some antique pieces from relatives in my safety deposit box. Have some firearms worth considerable cash and some personal antiques left from my Mom that should stay with nephew on my side. Tools and such I will likely disperse over the next few years as my arthritis gets worse, farm machines will get hauled to wife side nephew's place to use as he sees fit until so worn out he has to replace them. Farm will more than likely be sold off before die but is listed for now until it too goes away where the kids can negotiate sale of it. Whatever property we own at the end will be sold and cash dispersed as the executors see fit, do not care/will not care after gone as they will receive it all!! Want to add, Great Grandfather on Dad's side got pissed off by my Grandmother(His Daughter), he to keep her from challenging his will left her $1, the estate pays ANYTHING in the old days you could not challenge, do not think that holds today. Never found out what she had done, went to her grave with her and her kids(Dad, my Uncle and Aunt).
One of the nice things abut a trust is that it is private document.
All the things in this thread I'll never have to worry about I'm going to die without any enemies cause I'll outlive the barstards.
LOL!!!!
Be like Second Hand Lions(movie) spend it all getting to deaths door then go out in a blaze of glory boots still on!!!
Still one of my favorite movies!
Still get teary eyed watching it and KNOW its all a fantasy movie, strikes a chord with me.
A true yarn of a old farmer here who lost his farm due to the misbehaviour of the large banking corporations and who had bankrupted him. After the dust settled he started getting credit card applications so he filled them out, sent them back and low and behold cards started arriving. He never repayed any money so the banks kept upping the credit limits. There was a vital bit of information the banks had know idea about, the old bloke was dying and shortly before his death he held the biggest wake the district had ever witnessed. He had mixed out every card including paying for his funeral. A bankers rep called around trying to find out where the old farmer was so the problem of the monies owed could be addressed. The rep was a day late. So you see even after death Kama rules
The lawyer that wrote up my Dad's trust put a clause in there, if anybody challenges the trust in court, they lose anything they may have had coming from the trust. Maybe not bulletproof, but should give some pause. In our case it's just my brother and I, with one daughter apiece. Now if the spouses stay the hell out of it, should be a piece of cake right? What are the odds.....
Spouses!&^%$#! Don't even let them know.
I agree wholeheartedly, and in fact it's best to keep everybody but the Trustee named to manage the trust in the dark, otherwise the arguing starts before the dear departed departs.
$$$$ and what they can get instantly pop into their heads. If they think they deserve more (and they always do) they will make the executor want to bang their head against the wall. I still like the WKRP will video. Watch from about 15:50 below. It is classic. WKRP in Cincinnati S04E08 Jennifer and the Will - YouTube
My byline at the bottom of my posts has not changed in years. That is my plan.
I've never got why people think they "deserve" to be handed down anything. Unless they helped build what that person had, anything you get left is gravy, you shouldn't expect anything, if you want it work for it yourself.
Three pages about the worry of buzzards circling.
My wife's folks had a clause in the will. Mess with the executor and you get one dollar.
This is my family's strategy exactly. Give it away while you are still here to provide the supreme interpretation of your wishes. This way the legacy left behind is NOT one of bitterness and conflict and you can bear witness to the benefits of your gifts.
Unfortunately, here in the USA, the tax cost of giving it away while you are alive greatly exceed the (current) tax bill of giving it away after death.
Yes, but you can give, what, 14 or 15K per year per person, and if your child is married you can gift the same amount to their spouse, tax free. So you can move a lot of money over several years, if that's what you want to do.
I can't speak for tax laws in the US, but there is generally plenty of ways of making the tax less or disappear, it's just knowing the loopholes.
Tax issues are more likely to rear their ugly head when you are talking about titled property. While not tremendously difficult, giving a piece of property to someone at a rate of 14K/year does involve a lot of paperwork. It even becomes more tangled if either party dies before the transfer is completed.
I guess the exception would be if a nice family member knew another really liked a certain item and said they could have it or a family member was already much better off.
That is not messing with the executor, that is the opposite. That is getting along.
Rare but sometimes happens.
Asked my kid's to fill out a will, living will and power of attorney when they turned 18. Otherwise if they were in an accident the hospital could not tell me what was going on, nor would I have had any say in there care. I have my will, living will and power of attorney filled out also. Spent money on kids college and ex wife that would of been their future inheritance, so not a lot left to worry about right now. May look into trust at some point. I don't know who to give what Welder Dave, but I do think that you should make those decisions and get it laid out. It's sad to see whoever is the most conniving get the lions share.
Most will probably go to my nieces and nephews. I have someone lined up to buy the land and equipment.