Hello everyone, This Saturday one of the hydraulic hoses for lift and tilt on my 1994 Case 1840 raptured just by the spool control and I appreciate any instructions on how to replace those hoses. There are 6 of them, all fited to one control unit, very close together so it is imposible to say exactly which one it is by watching the high pressure oil gushing out. I was able to empty the bucket, drive to the shed and raise and secure the arms. There is very limited space between those 6 hose fittings themselves on the control valve as well as around the unit. I tried to loosen up one of the front nuts using regular ⅞ open end wrench but the nut and the 90⁰ elbow bind and move together. Besides it feels that the ⅞ is not the exactly correct size and there is not enough of room to use an open end wrench on any other of the remaining 5 nuts. I found posts on the forum where people even replace O rings inside the valves so apparently I am stuck on something what is not a big problem for others and I really appreciate advice what tools or kind of wrenches and penetraiting sprays to use in this tight space to loosen up the bind between the nuts and the elbows to remove the hoses. I put a yellow arrow from where the hot oil stream and clous is coming out.
Usual plan of attack is to start removing anything in the way. Sometimes you'll have to remove a bunch of fittings to get to the one you need. From my experience, penetrating oil is useless for literally everything. Best bet is try and tap around the fitting with a hammer or use punch if you can't get a hammer in there. Could also jam the 90 with a prybar and work the fitting loose. Usually they aren't too badly seized up in there.
Like 92U says sometimes you have to remove the easy hoses and their fittings to get access to the next one and so on till you get to the one that is really the problem. I would also make a sketch of the valve showing the ports for the hoses and before removing each one mark it with a number punch or if no number punch is available just use a prick punch. One prick of one hose two pricks for the next and so on and write the numbers on your sketch for reassembly. OH! and mark the new hoses as you are installing them for the next time you are in there! Also sometimes crows foot socket help, an example is: https://www.amazon.com/Sunex-9720-Fractional-Straight-Crowfoot/dp/B000LQG3XQ/ref=sr_1_32?keywords=crows+foot+socket&sr=8-32 Not sure what size the hose nuts you have are just posting the link for information.
This is a perfect example of why guys who do this for a living have a **** load of tools in their boxes. And another place where Snap On angle wrenches are expensive but invaluable. If you're using a 7/8" wrench on the hose fittings then that's -8 (dash 8) JIC hose fittings that are fitted to -8 SAE O-ring boss fittings that are fitted into the control valve. It's not unusual for the o-ring boss adapter fitting to pop loose before the JIC nut on the hose pops loose. When that happens it pretty much requires two wrenches, one on the hex of the o-ring boss fitting and one on the nut of the JIC hose fitting then use either knuckle busting power to break the connection or use a screwdriver or small pry bar to pry one wrench against the other and pop it loose. And as kshansan said, mark with a center punch, one dot on the hose fitting and one dot on either the adapter fitting or on the control valve, two dots for the next fitting, three dots for the next. Punch marks are a permanent mark that doesn't wash away. And when you do get it loose, be sure to remove the SAE o-ring boss fitting and replace the o-ring. If it's -8, then it will be a 568-908 o-ring. Oh, and wrench benders who do this for a living also have preferred swear words for tasks like this as well.
AMEN on having a lot of wrenches willie59. buy some, make some. We do have to make up new swear words working on something new that some college boy dreamed up.
Thanks for the responses, the JIC fitting info in particular. The parts diagram reads that the connectors on the control valve are HYD CONNECTOR Part # 81827427 218-5059 -replaces #218-5059 HYD CONNECTOR 3/4''-16, 37 Degree x 3/4''-16, O-Ring. Also marking the hoses and their connections will save lots of time and frustration because after removing the radiator it became clear that half of the hoses from the control unit are not connected to the cylinders directly but thru another crowded block so I assume that would be a self-leveling valve mounted down below the lift/tilt control unit. That doubles the number of hoses installed tighly close to each other in location where space is limited. Replacing a 1/2 inch hydraulic house sounds like a simple job and with the propoer tool it is. Considering that there is a large number of these skidders are still running all over the world and that hydraulic hoses develop leak from time to time it is sreally surprizing how difficult it is to get the right wrench for a standard JIC connector mounted on those valves. Looking at the crisp, not rounded or otherwise marked edges of the nuts it is clear that when some of those hoses were replaced before (more than 11 years ago) the mechanic had the perfect wrench to do that job. During the last 2 days I spent many hours on the internet looking for such wrench and it would appear that either crowfoot or Snap On modified deep socket could be the right wrench to use. I found posts on different forums where guys have same problems removing JIC connectors on their equipment and some of the advices are as drastic as cut off the hose/elbow and use deep socket to loosen up the nut. That may be solution for a single hose but not when there are 6 on each valve makiking up 12 connections and ruining all the hoses to replace just one or two of them. There is also the option of grinding up and adapting the 13/16 wrench I have by only 1/16 to make the 7/8 I need.
Forgot to post the picture of the label on the assembly I assume is a self leveling valve. It reads LSA944
Would be better to show a bigger pic. of what you suspect is a self leveling valve. It might be something else as I think Danfoss would be something more related to the hydrostatic transmission. I could be wrong though. It's a PIA on some machines where you have to remove several other hoses to get at the one that needs to be replaced. Down inside a skid steer is one of the worst.
..... Down inside a skid steer is one of the worst.... That's the one. Thanks Welder Dave. Any sugested sequence of steps or advice. I am considering to remove the bolts holding the whole bottom control box (not even shure at this point what it is or what to call it) to get at least any acces to the very bottom nuts. The hoses are very tight and will not allow much movement anyway but I don't see how to go about it at this point. I've modifies one onf my 7/8 box wrenches and was able to loosen up a couple of houses but going now to get plastic plugs to prevent any dirt getting in the system. A wild fire started 2 days ago in a very rugged mountain area only 7 miles from my place, densely wooded area all the way to my house so only choppers are trying to suppress it but so far no luck and it is out of control. I would love my skid steer to be operational ASAP in these circumstances so any advice, hints and idead are reallky appreciated.
Its only a boom or bucket hose. Disconbect the offending hose and cap the port with a steel JIC cap and drive it away to a safer place.
It could be a self level valve. Your machine looks a lot more complex than mine. A hyd. schematic would help identify it. Before removing everything it would be good to try and figure out exactly where the leak is. With all covers and stuff removed maybe just turning the engine over would reveal where the leak is. Don't use your hands to check for leaks though. You only want to remove what's absolutely necessary to fix the leak. If it is a boom or bucket hose and the bucket is flat on the ground, you should be able to drive backwards to get it in a better location to fix. You don't need to use the boom or bucket controls. Just make sure there's enough hyd. oil in the reservoir so you don't damage any more of the hyd. system.
Thanks guys, appreciate your help. Half of the hoses from the lift/tilt control terminates in that lower inaccessible mystery box, the other half terminates at the lift/tilt cylinders. The hoses are really tightly crammed beside each other and other engine parts. I managed to pull out one hose and there is damagage to the outer jacket on three different places. I think once I figure out how to remove the hoses and mark their connections I will make them longer and route them different way where they be not so crammed and rubbing their swalls against anything (if possible). Once the oil starts gushing out it is really impossible which hose it is from. I try to post a video but it may not be alowed because of the file size.
Yep, videos not allowed, here a screenshot pasted into a Word document. There is no way to determine or pinpoint the spot and that's why need to remove and inspect. replace each of the hoses in that bundle. How did they assemble the bottom hoses on the lower box, there is no room for any tool.
Not sure if you have done this yet, you don't mention it & the pictures don't really show either, you have slid the cabin forward... yes? You may want to check the area marked in this picture as I think you may have a crack in your chassis.
With the engine radiator off I was able to unbolt the bottom unit from the chassis while wishing I had ruber arm and eyes that can see around corner and eventually remove three of the interconnecting lines to get some space between the crowded them and trace how the three units are actually connected together. I really can't imagine that the bottom unit would be anything else than self leveling valve for both up and down direction. Given the current situation I will probably totally bypass that valve and simply connect the lift and tilt from the standard control unit to the corresponding cylinder lines. Arlman, thank you for chiming in. Here is a close up of the marked area. The line is a sharp scratch in the paint. The cab is slid forward.
No, really, it isn't
To Heymccall - sliding the cab all the way forward is OK when the hydraulic is fine. That is mostly needed when servicing the drive pump or auxiliary and related components. The issue in this thread involves parts which are located behing the engine radiator and connected to the lift/tilt control so the only thing achieved by sliding the cab forward more than it is on the picture below is setting up a dangerous situation that the extremely heavy bucket with grapple will swivel down on the rised arms and its lower part with blade will ruin the cab. The safety strut only keeps the arms up but with ruptured lift/tilt hydraulic hose there is nothing to hold the bucket upright and the gravity will cause it to pivot down a crash everything in its way. That's why you see the two very high tech wooden posts holding the bucket up. The cab is out enoug to allow access to the hydraulic control valve but out of the bucket range in case the support gives out and the bucket swings down.