Well, time for another Bobcat thread. Ok, I'm seeing way too much of this on Bobcat machines lately, Bobcat has changed a component on the drive neutral centering device, they must be using some cheap steel or something. You don't typically see this on the older BC machines, I've got a 753 in the shop right now that looks like the original components and they don't have the wear the newer machine components have. What am I talking about? Let me get the centering plate off and you'll see it. Caution; before you make any repairs or adjustments to the drive centering device on a Bobcat, the first thing you must do is get the machine off the ground on 4 stands. Don't trust just tilting the bucket forward and lifting front wheels, it could drift down. It must be on stands or sturdy blocks. First, you have to remove the centering spring. Now, there's a little trick to this. You can remove it quite easily. But then putting it back on is a bit of a problem because you have to compress the spring to start the nut on the long center bolt, you only have two hands and no room for a helper in there. Here's a solution that works well for me. Thread a good quality zip tie under spring, at least two (three is even more durable) zips. Move one of the drive levers just slightly off center to compress spring just a little, then zip the ties. Now you can remove the center bolt/nut, and you have a handy caged spring that's ready for re-install. continued...
Once the centering spring is removed, you just simply lift the centering plate off and you'll see the pintle arms that control the pump shafts. Now you can see the problem, the wear on those two centering spools bolted on the pintle arms. I'm seeing these worn spools more and more on newer model machines. We own an S185 that's just a little over a year old, about 800 hrs on it, and these spools have been replaced twice. Once this wear occurs, the pintle arm isn't being held in neutral position and will cause the machine to creep. The spools have a 3/8" hex key hole in the top of them, and are fastened to the pintle arms by a hex head bolt from underneath. And there's not enough room to get even a short socket under the pintle arm to grab head of bolt. Additionally, the bolt head is in a recess, can't even grip enough of the bolt head with the open end of a wrench. More brilliant Bobcat design. I have a 9/16" S-K wrench that has just enough protrusion on box end of wrench to grip just enough of the bolt head to pop spool loose with allen head socket on spool. All you have to do is break the spool loose, give it a half turn to clean metal, and lock it down. But I remove the spool and install a split ring lock washer on the bolt for a spacer, that makes getting a hold of the bolt head much easier. Here's one of thespools and bolt. Turn both spools on the two pintle arms around to fresh metal. And while your in there, be sure and check the bolt that locks pintle arm to pump shaft, that bolt needs to be tight. The steel bars bolted to the centering plate are going to be worn as well, simply remove the fastening bolts of the bars, flip the bars around, and bolt them back on. The bolt holes on right bar are round, the holes for the left bar are slotted. Lock down the bolts in the right bar, but leave the ones in the slotted holes for left bar loose to make adjustment. continued...
Here's the left pintle arm with the spools turned around. Notice the two 3/8" bolts that fasten the pintle arm to the pump control arm. The bolt that's in between the two spools goes through a round hole and screws into the pump control shaft. The bolt to the right of spools goes through a slotted hole and fastens to the end of pump control arm. This is how drive centering adjustment is done using the allen head screw on front of pintle arm. We'll go over that in a few minutes. Now we have spools and bars flipped around, simply fit the centering plate in place, and re-install that handily caged centering spring. The centering bar to the right is set because we locked the bolts down on it. Now we need to set the left centering bar. Make sure the left pintle arm is in centerline with right pintle arm as best you can as it will move fore and aft. Just slightly set bolts for left centering bar in slotted holes. Tap the side of the bolt heads to move centering bar toward spools until it contacts spools. Give the bolt heads a bit more lock down. Grasp the machine right side drive lever that you use to drive the machine and move it gently fwd and rev, checking for any movement of the pintle arm. There should be no looseness of the pintle arm spools contacting the centering bars. If there is, loosen front bolt, move the drive operating lever slightly in reverse direction, and tap the front centering bar bolt with hammer to move it closer to the spool on pintle arm, lock bolt again. If you adjust too far, you will cause looseness of opposite centering bar on right side of centering plate, the side with holes that don't adjust. Once you get no looseness of either drive lever, firmly lock down bolts for centering bars and re-check that nothing moved during torquing bolts. continued...
Now, let the cab down, plant yourself in the seat, and start the machine. It may try and move one of the drives because final ajustment is yet to be done. You may have to hold one or both of the levers pushed or pulled slightly to neutral the pumps until you get the engine running and brake lock released. This is why you have to have machine on stands or blocks. Once you get it running and brake lock released, raise the cab back up. You'll more than likely have at least one side, or both sides, creeping a bit. To adjust and get drive neutral, slightly loosen bolt in pump shaft. Loosen bolt in pump control arm in slotted hole. Turn the adjusting screw CCW (screwing out) until that side creeps in reverse. Slightly tension the two bolts. Crank the adjusting screw CW (screwing in) with allen wrench until that drive finds neutral. Lock down bolts. Some movement may occur during lock down, you may have to tweak a bit more. If you adjust too far and get forward creep, you have to regroup and do it over again. Once you get neutral on both drives your good to go. On older machines that have aluminum pintle arms, the adjusting procedure is a bit different. I should be repairing the drive centering on the 753 with aluminum arms this coming week, hopefully will be able to follow up on those repairs at this thread.
looks like fun lol
This is a simple adjustment operators should insist be done. There is no substitute for safety.
Now a little info about the older machines with aluminum pintle arms. Got in the cab of the 753 customer had dropped off and it was all over the place. I knew immediately that the clamping bolt for the right drive pintle arm had come loose. Well, here's the belly of the beast. Pretty much the same thing as on the T190, cage the centering spring with cable ties, remove centering spring, then lift neutral centering plate off. On this model, more difficult to get to the centering spring, had hoses and stuff in the way. Grrrrrr. Centering plate removed, the pintle arm on the left is the one the clamping bolt that holds arm tight on pump shaft came loose allowing pintle arm to wallow all over and couldn't control pump shaft movement. These machines drive nutty when they come loose. Notice the difference in the spools on the aluminum arm models as opposed to the spools that wear on the T190 mentioned earlier. These spools actually look like a chromed steel. Minimal wear on spools as well as centering bars. Two new pintle arms. One from being worn by loose clamping bolt, other had excessive wear where rubber torsion bushing goes. Install new torsion bushings, installed old but still good spools on new arms, rotated them around to fresh steel, and rotated centering bars on centering plate. I should offer an installation note whenever perfoming repairs to Bobcat drive linkages. Whenever you remove the bolt that attaches drive link to pintle arm via the rubber torsion bushing, when you go to re-install the torsion bushing bolt you must have the pintle arm near the neutral position. Once the bolt is tight, moving the machine drive lever fwd and rev actually twists the rubber of the torsion bushing. Point is, if you had the machine drive lever and pintle arm all the way forward and installed the torsion bushing bolt and locked it down, then when you pulled back the drive lever, it would simply try to go back foward like a spring was pulling it. That's from twisting the rubber of torsion bushing. Always have pintle arms in line with each other when installing torsion bushing bolts. continued...
Now the main difference between the aluminum arms and two piece steel pintle arm, there's no centering adjusting screw like on the steel arms. The drive centering adjustments are done solely on the centering plate. Notice the holes on the centering plate that mount the centering bars. The holes on the left (for right side drive) are both slotted. The holes on the right (left drive) has one hole slotted and one plain round hole. That's where adjusting begins, the round hole is the pivot point and the slotted hole is the adjusting point for left side drive. Mount the centering bar to the plate with round hole bolt, then mount opposite end bolt in the mid point of slotted hole, lighty lock down bolts. Install opposite centering bar with two slotted holes, push bar away from other centering bar and lightly lock bolts. Fit centering plate onto guide pins, re-install centering spring. Now we can start adjusting. Again, you must have machine on stands or sturdy blocks, wheels off ground. Start machine and release parking brake lock. Adjust left side drive first. If there's no creep of left drive wheels, lock down the bolts for that centering bar. If there is creep of left drive, put a little light torque on round hole pivot bolt. Have a little tension on the slotted hole bolt. Move left side drive lever to reverse drive to seperate spool from the centering bar at that bolt, tap the side of the head of the slotted hole bolt in the direction needed to achieve neutral. Once neutral is achieved, start torquing the bolts, keep moving drive lever in fwd and rev while torquing and checking that neutral is good. Once you get neutral, lock bolts tight. Now that you have the left side drive set and not creeping, it's time to adjust the right side drive. Since they are all the way left in there slots, there's going to be considerable movement of the machine drive lever. With the right machine drive lever holding the right wheels in neutral position, or close as you can, loosen the bolts in the centering bar and move it to the right in the slotted holes until centering bar is against the spools of pintle lever, lightly torque bolts. Adjust the two bolts to achieve drive neutral for right side drive, making sure the centering bar is contacting the spools, you can't have any slack between bar and spool contact or it will creep, but you have to make sure the adjustments on that side don't cause slack for the opposite side drive. Once you get right side drive neutral, lock bolts down tight. Move both drive levers in fwd and rev and make sure there is no drive creep.
Excellent tutorial. Thanks ATCO!
creeping bobcat Very well detailed reply with pictures-I like it.
ziptie! thanks so much for that trick.
I'm kinda hoping this info will help some machine owner do his own repairs instead of unloading the wallet to pay the big shop to do them.
this is my third reply. Yeh! and i hope that when i finally get to ask a question this guy is around to give me an answer.
OMG...I hope I am too! LoL Welcome to the forum jean. :usa
863 creep adjustment Is the adjustment procedure basicly the same on the 773 and 863's. I have a 863 1999 vintage. thanks
Your machine should have the same components. Being a '99, I'd say you have the aluminum pintle arms. BTW, welcome to the forum usediron. :usa
Not sure what years, but some of the older 863's used cables to control servo spools in the pumps, instead of manual linkages......way different procedure for adjustment.
Yeah, been a while since I've seen one of those cable jobs, I would think by '99 it would use the link system. Not certain about that myself.
Would this fix work on a t180 that one track is going faster than the other?
Welcome to the forum punchlist. :usa You mean one track faster than the other, like, when you have the drive levers all the way forward, one tracks is faster than the other, making the machine turn?
This is the problem exactly and I havent looked at the adjustment but the machine seems slower in forward than reverse. But the right control seems to go farther fwd than the left?
Common adjustment problem on Bobcats, easy to fix. For this, you would adjust the flat linkage bars that go from the drive lever control rods at the front and connect to the pintle levers on pumps. The drive levers typically go foward until they hit the cutouts in the front plate behind your legs. If the right seems to go farther forward, I'm guessing you need to make your left drive linkage bar shorter. With engine off, raise the cab. You'll see those two linkage bars in the center of the machine. About the midpoint of the bars, the two piece bars are connected with 3/8" bolts in slotted holes. Facing from the front of machine, the left drive bar would be the one on your right. Take a Sharpie, and put a mark on the forward portion of that bar about an 1/8" from where it joins the rear section of bar. Slightly loosen connection bolts, wiggle the bar connection while lightly pulling back on left drive lever until the rear section of bar meets the mark that you made on front bar, lock bolts down. Make sure you have the linkage bar straight and not a dog leg angle at the connection. You simply adjust the bars until the machine tracks straight when you have drive levers thrown all the way forward. If it still travels faster in rev than fwd, and you want the fwd speed, shorten both bars (left and right) until you achieve this.
Well, time to post an update to the creeping Bobcat thread. We have an S185 that we purchased new, has right around 1000 hours on it now. The spools and centering bars have already been replaced twice by dealer during warranty service. Now, it's creeping again, more wear on spools and centering bars. Dag nabit! This is about annoying! Damn Chinese steel! I called my Bobcat dealer and talked to the Service manager. Told Issac what was happening and asked if there was anything we could do to fix this annoying problem. He said "yeah, I'll put together a parts list for ya and fix you up". Our machine has the two piece steel pintle arms, but I suspect if you have the aluminum pintle arms that have these worn spools and bars, these parts may work on them as well. Safety Warning: Never perform these repairs unless machine is raised of the ground and resting on sufficient stands/blocks with all wheels off ground and free to turn. While waiting on my go-fer to go get parts, proceeded with removing components. Now this S185, unlike the 753 at beginning of this thread, has a hydraulic driven fan. These components make it really difficult to reach in work on the drive centering plate components, removing the spools would be difficult. So, instead of repairing centering spools with pintle arms attached to drive motors, I opted to remove pintle arms. Cage the centering spring as shown in post #1 of this thread, remove centering spring/bolt, and remove the centering plate. You now have access to the pintle arms. Remove the nut that attaches links from drive levers to pintle arm, you have to hold the bolt head from underneath or bolt will turn on this model. Then remove the two 3/8" bolts that attach the pintle arm to the drive pump lever. Now you simply lift the pintle arm off of the pump shaft lever. Yeah, there's those junk worn centering spools. Flip the pintle arm over and clamp centering spools in a vise, remove the retainer bolts and remove spools from arm. Your going to have some wear on the centering bars as well, remove the bolts that mount them and turn them around 180 degrees and you'll have a new surface to work with. Ok, here are the goodies. Stud mounted cam follower bearings, 4 flanged nuts, 4 thick shim washers, and 8 thin shim washers. Here's your parts list from Bobcat and todays parts prices per each: (4) #6673789 cam follower bearing $29.14 (8) #25E17 thin shim washers .98 (4) #6557831 thick shim washer .78 (less than thin washers?) (4) #98D6 flanged 3/8-24 nut 1.38 Or use a Timken CRSB-14 cam follower bearing from a bearing supplier, appx 17.00 each
Here's the assembly process. Place one thin shim washer and one thick shim washer on each cam follower studs. This makes them the approximate same height as the old spools. Mount the cam bearings to the pintle arms with new flanged nuts. Install the reversed centering bars using one thin shim washer between centering bar and centering plate. For the centering bar that has two round bolt holes, lock that one down tight. On the opposite end with slotted holes, push centering bar away from opposite bar and lightly tighten bolts, they will be adjusted later. Now re-install the pintle arms on the pump levers, lightly tighten the two bolts that fasten the pintle arms to the pump lever. Fit the drive lever link bars to the pintle arms, make sure the pintle arms are parallel when locking down nut on drive lever link bolts. If you have pintle arms forward or rearward and lock down nut on link bolts, the torsion bushings in pintle arms won't be set properly. Go back to post #4 of this thread for drive neutral adjusting procedure. Got everything back together, cam rollers contact centering bars perfect. You can see two of the cam rollers in left side of pic. Don't think I'm going to have a problem with this for a while. Sweet!
Time for an update to this thread. One common problem with Bobcat drive pumps is leaking seals on the pump control shafts. It's an easy fix, doesn't require drive pump removal or major disassembly. If you happen to be in there doing repairs to the pintle arms or drive centering and you see leakage of the pump shaft seals, you should consider replacing the seals while you have things apart. This one is on a T200 track machine. Once you have the drive centering plate and pintle arm removed, simply remove the 4 bolts that mount the centering plate guide bracket. Remove the guide bracket, you'll then be looking at the seal plate. Lift the seal plate off of the pump. There's the lip seal you need to replace. There's also a ring seal that seals the shaft seal plate and pump housing. Some models use an o-ring seal, others use a square cut lathe ring seal, you're Bobcat dealer may ask which one your machine uses, so you might want to get a peek and see which one you have before you order/pickup your parts. One thing to keep in mind, there's going to be some oil leaking out when you remove the seal plate. On this one I wasn't terribly concerned because it has already made an oily mess in the area. But for one that's just seeping oil, and you don't want to make a big mess, keep the hose from your suck bucket evacuating the oil from the area while you have the plate off and are replacing the seal in the seal plate. Also, be sure and polish the pump control shaft with fine emory cloth to remove rust or roughness of shaft before re-installing the seal plate. Use your suck bucket to remove the rusty oil caused by cleaning the shaft.
Very clever use of zip ties. I will file that idea away for use whenever I disassemble components with springs in tight spots.
Thank you for posting Atco. If you were to put all this information in a book. Put me down for a couple of copies. Have a nice day. Sam
LoL...me thinks I'm already in the process of putting together the book here Sam. :tong
Would that be the same on my T190 2003 bobcat
would that be the same on my T190 2003 as it is here for the creeping bobcat?
would this be the same for my 2003 T190 as you descriibed here?
Welcome to the forum wildernesss1958. Yes, the things on this thread are common Bobcat skid items, T190 should pretty much be the same thing.
Many thanks, ATCO....My 773G never sat or steered so nice, before I followed your steps. I found the left pintle arm was loose, and tightened it, adjusted per your post, and she's smooth as silk! Love the zip tie trick, also. I now know what I'm feeling when things don't act right. Mike
Welcome to the forum real550A. :usa Good to hear this info was of help to you, that's the reason I posted it. You can bet Bobcat makes some good money on these simple repairs, and they're not really all that hard to do if you can stand working on top of one of those uncomfortable little critters.
Bobcat 873 Steering Problem I have a Bobcat 873 with a problem with the steering control arms. The left hand arm causes the left wheels to move forward and back as soon as it is moved from the neutral position. The right hand arm has a lot more travel that is required both forward and back before the right wheels will move. It makes it somewhat hard to make left hand turns while moving because the right had wheels won't go as fast as the left. From reading the above posts, I am guessing that I may have a loose clamping bolt or worn pintle arm. I don't have any creep yet. My serial number is 514115288 if that is any help in determining the type of linkage I have. Any hints on how I should proceed with a repair? Thanks in advance for any help.
Welcome to the forum Memphisdoug. :usa Whether you have the aluminum or steel pintle arms, if the clamp bolt comes loose that attaches them to the pump control shaft you're going to have some form of fwd/rev creep on the drive, it will be hard to control the machine as you can't get it to settle into neutral. If you have no creep, but have a very sloppy drive lever, you could have a bad bushing in the end of the traverse control rod that the drive lever attaches to, or you could have a bad torsion bushing on the control link that goes from traverse control rod to pintle arm. You need to raise your cab and see if you can determine what is causing the slack in the drive lever.
That's where I'm confused. I tilted the cab up and took off the right hand access plate on the side of the machine. As soon as I move the right hand drive lever forward or back I see the centering plate move. It's not like I have to move the lever a bunch before the centering plate moves. So - it seems like the lever is moving the control valve without problem. Is it possible to have something wrong with the valve that would cause my problem. Perhaps I need to take a closeer look at the whole linkage thing too. It looks like some tight quarters to work in there!
I think it's time to remove the centering plate and get a better look at pintle arm components.
Holy crap this is awesome....I've been fighting with this thing creeping for a while, i found the aluminum arm was loose, now i tightened it and the left track wants to go backwards. So the last 3 hours have been trying to adjust this thing. Now I know how! Thank you! :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
You are quite welcome Coastal, I hope the info does the trick for ya.
does this happen on older Bobcats such as a 1988 Bobcat 843. Does this happen on older Bobcats such as a 1988 843? If so whats is the cost for parts? Labor?
This is pretty much stuff common to Bobcats. Some of the newer ones are using electronic servo controls, those a bit different. An '88 model likely has aluminum pintle arms. Don't have the cost of the parts in my head, but don't think they're outrageously expensive.
adjustment or new part So on a Bobcat 843, is the creep fix likely to be an adjustment or a new part?
Could be either donald73d, pretty much need to raise cab and check out drive centering components. A number of parts can cause creep. Worn centering spools, worn plastic guide pin bushings, loose pintle arm. I can't remember the configuration of the 843 and what drive pump they used, I only recall the 743 had a Vickers pump and a centering device that was a PITA to adjust. The system was greatly improved when they started producing the 53 series.
Thanks for the good write up Willie59. It sure helped me a lot on a job that I'm doing for a friend. Regards
You are very welcome Alberta. Good to hear the info was beneficial. :drinkup
Thank you Very helpful. Thanks for the great post.
You're welcome 2frankh, welcome to the forum. :usa
Willie59, Did you ever find the axel weights you mentioned in another thread? Didn't see anything mentioned there. Thanks again
Sorry, no, I haven't. Not sure where those weights come from. I would think you can get them from Bobcat, but there's got to be another source, just not sure where.
Bobcat 873 motion/steering problem I was finally able to dig into my 873 today to try to determine what was causing the problem I was having. To recap - my left hand steering arm is working fine. Very little movement of the arm causes motion of the LH wheels forward and back. The RH stick isn't doing the same thing. It needs a lot of movement to get much of anything to happen and even at the limits of its travel the RH wheels just aren't moving like they should. To me it sounded like my RH pintle arm probably came loose from the valve shaft. I took off the centering plate and checked movement. As soon as I move the RH steering arm the pintle arm moves too along with the valve shaft. There is a little slop where the steering arm connects to the pintle arm but it is the same on both sides. There is not near enough to cause the problem I have. My spools and centering bars have very little wear also. I should mention that I have the aluminum pintle arms. So now I am at somewhat of a loss. What could be causing the lack of response with my RH steering arm? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to have to take this in to the dealer to repair.
Just another addition to my message above. I am not having any creep problems with my unit. Just the lack of response on the RH steering control.
I think its time for a pressure check. If all the mechanical linkage is correct then the next thing to check is the pump and drive motors.
I agree, if you have confirmed linkage is good, might have a problem with pump or motor. If you don't have required pressure test equipment, it would take a little time, but you could try switching the drive motors and see if problem moves to opposite side. Hopefully it does, which would mean bad drive motor. If it remains a problem on right side, likely problem with pump which would be more expensive to repair.
Just got a 2002 863 yesterday. It's my first skid steer, so I thought maybe I just didn't have a clue how to drive the thing as it bucked like a madman whenever I tried to stop or move slowly. It also creeped forward on the left side. After reading this, I took a look, and sure enough, my left drive pintle arm was flopping around on the pump shaft. Tightened that, then adjusted the bars on the centering plate until neutral worked. Now I can actually drive it! I still get a bit of bucking on occasion, but I think that might truly be my being new to this. The right side also goes faster than the left if forward, so I'll be doing the other adjustment described herein. For both, much thanks!
The aluminum pintle is probably worn out. If the bucking gets progressively worse, check the pintle again. It may have loosened up on the shaft again. Replace it and the bushings and it should be good for a while.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Is there anywhere to get a new one other than through Bobcat? Not that I'd mind that, just curious about alternatives.
Bobcat is the only place I'm aware of to get those parts. The aluminum arms aren't terribly expensive, compared to what most parts cost nowdays.
An Update Just an update on the problem I was having. It turned out that I had some blown seals in my right hand drive motor. Replaced those and I have a good running Bobcat again.
Willie59, I've been studying this great post in preparation for tuning up my 2001 773G, nearly 900 hr. My "torsion bushings" are worn out, and I'm also guessing that some of the slop I'm feeling is coming from worn centering spools. When I went to buy the bushings, Lynn told me there are two types, that I need to take my old ones out before they can know which parts I need--cannot determine by ser #. Do you know. . . are both types "torsion", i.e. do they twist/torque under movement like the ones you describe in this post? I wonder what purpose the "torsion" serves. To change those bushings, it looks like the pintle plate will have to come off in order to press out the oldbushings and press the new ones in. Or. . .is there a trick to that? As for the centering spools. . . if mine are worn, do you figure it's probably worth doing the upgrade from plain spools to bearings, to keep from having the problems again for a while? (OK, I can answer that one: Yes.) And while I'm changing bushings, are there bushings at the opposite (front) end of the control links (flat bars to control levers) that also wear? If so, I reckon I should change all of those out before bothering to adjust anything. And after studying this, I'll be sure to check the control shaft seals while I'm at it. Thanks, my man. I just might let you keep my MEL 1278 in your toolbox when I'm done with it. (If I can find the spool valve thread again. . .)
Yes Jim, Bobcat used two different size torsion bushings and they can't tell what size was used on your machine using serial number. All you have to do is measure the diameter of the bushing that presses into hole on pintle arm to determine which bushings you have. Pintle arms have to be removed to replace torsion bushings. You can simply use a vice and appropriate sized sockets to push old bushings out and press new ones in. As for centering spools, depends on what type is on there now. Some of the old spools had like a chrome finish on them, they would wear over time, but were pretty hard steel. On those you can typically rotate them and rotate the bars that they contact and get many more hours. If it's the newer style spools, they wear like crazy, it's a waste of time to rotate them as they won't last that long, better off changing over to cam followers. The pump shaft seals, pretty easy to do once you get all the control components out of the way, just make sure you clean the area well before removing the plate that has the shaft seal in it.
Willie 59, I want to say "thank you" for such a nice detailed proceedure! I am new to the forum as well as I just purchased my first bobcat, a 1992 7753 with 1540 actual hours. The centering blocks had never been flipped and they were just a little worn. The spools were in great shape with no flat spots, they must have used harder material back then. So I flipped the blocks to use the good side. My machine has tracks on it, so I played the game of raising and lower the cab everytime I made an adjustment instead of trying to raise the machine high enough with sagging tracks on it.....my cab lift cylinders are shot so this is quite a workout on your back, not to mention trying to fit into that small compartment and adjust those centering blocks. It can be a tedious pain as I probably made over 10 trials before getting it right, now I see why the Bobcat deal wants $500.00 to do this job. Thanks again! Chris
Welcome to the forum Chris3558. :usa I do hope the information was helpful.
Great info. My T190 creep has been getting worse since i bought it. Time to correct it. After I finish with some pressing tasks I will have to yank the track for a leak around the LH drive. Im sure Ill have questions on that when the time comes.
Just reused this thread to adjust my 863. Thanks again
You're welcome, good to hear the info was helpful.
Thanks, I adjusted my 2009 s220 last night. the slotted block for right side wheels wasn't very tight and was causing the problem. also my spools are the roller bearing type, like you showed on the upgrade. I bought the machine new so they haven't been replaced. mine had no wear on the spools or blocks. I have 1200 hrs. on mine. Thanks again. Jim
That's awesome Jim. And I don't think I've greeted you, so, welcome to the forum. :usa
I am a bobcat mechanic ,work for a dealership for 9 years ,was the foreman for 4 years and just wanna it to add a comment about the bushing in control arms,yea they are two sizes, in all big frame machines like 863,873,the small bushing get replace with the big one and also the control arms needs to be replace is an update from the factory and also in almost in all small frame machines like 763,773,753,etc,
Thanks for such a fantastic thread... I have a question on "creep"... when on flat ground my 463 does not move... but when its on any sort of incline (even a tiny one) the machine wants to roll in the direction of the downhill... could this be caused by the same issues as the machine creeping?
When they are on an incline, engine running, and parking brake released, they can roll Orgnoi1, this is likely the case with yours if it does it in both directions, fwd and rev. However, if it tends to only do this in one direction, I wager if you get your machine on stands, start engine and release brake, you would find wheels creeping, needing adjustment.
I think I will make the attempt to check that out this week... Mostly it does feel like it does it in reverse...so maybe there IS an issue there... Plus I have issues with the throw on both levers not being equal at full speed so there's an adjustment issue with that for sure... Thanks for the reply!
463's dont have to much play to adjust wheel speed, however,if you follow the levers they attach to a bar call crankbell which it has 2 bearings attach to the frame , you could get a litte of adjustment in there,also if you tires are different size in OD this will affec your full speed.
Super Mechanic its not about the actual top speed... I drive configuration is faster than the other... so when you push both arms forward the skid turns slightly to the left...
I did some playing around to see where I am more or less moving by putting the machine on direct angles... its definately creeping rearward... I guess now its just finding the time to fix it...lol
I was talking about wheel speed,not top speed , neutral adjustment (creeping) and wheel speed are different issues.Different sizes tires,weak drive motor, will affect wheel speed in a 463.
New to this forum but great post! Thanks.
Another item on my todo list that now is not a mystery. Thank's for the detailed post. Thx's, Fred.
You're welcome Fred, and welcome to the forum. :usa
Thanks for this thread, Im working on a G series 863 (1999) that wanders, there is allot of play in the aluminum dog bone on the left side that bolts to the hydro, that I believe I need to remedy before I can center this thing to neutral. Anyhow, do I need to remove the "T" pipe in the middle coming out of the hydro to get this apart to remove that dog bone ? One other questions, how do you get your pics to automatically open up on this forum ?
The pipe is long enough to allow the 'flat' plate to be moved enough for access to both aluminum arms.
Welcome to HEF Demo_Contractor. :drinkup You have to get three posts to lose the probationary status, then you can download pics to forum.
Thanks for the replies, I tried lifting the plate up, but it was hanging on the two horizontal guide pins on the left side of the machine, I guess I need to play with it some more. Ive got a service manual coming for it, just dont have it yet, thanks, Bill
great pictorial ,this info is priceless,thankyou
Man,how in the world did I miss seeing this thread??? Great thread with great pics
I hope it helps CJR72 and BobCatMan.
Willie59, you might remember my 773 puked hyd oil out the lift spool last October while I was stacking hay in the barn. I quickly parked it outside due to the pouring oil, and took it apart. Then other stuff ("life") happened, and next thing I knew it was March. Yes, 5+ months later--plenty of time to forget dang near everything. So. . . two weeks ago I found time to work on it. Went to HEF to brush up on the reassembly stuff, only to find that the forum was "down". lol It was a good test. Had to take all that stuff in the bucket and figure out how to put it back together. What this has to do with "creeping Bobcat" is, while I had the spools valves out I changed the worn pintle arms and torsion bushings. I got back to the farm today, and YES!, I got the controls adjusted to perfect "neutral". The biggest problem today was getting a cold motor, not started since October, sitting outside, with a now-dead battery, to start. . . with the controls not centered. Once I got it running and "unlocked", adjusting it was easy--thanks to your detailed posts. Mine had the second type of adjustment as described in this thread. I left the bolts in the torsion bushings loose until the neutral centering steps were complete, then tightened the bolts and then the jam nuts with the pintles in perfect neutral. Next: I need to edit my photos of the float detent and get them posted to the spool-valve thread. Thanks, friend, for these posts & threads. Happy Easter to all!
Good to hear you got it sorted out Jim. :drinkup BTW, got your voice message at work. I've been busy as a one legged man in a butt kicking contest with the rental stuff, maybe perchance I'll get out in Oak Ridge and meet up with ya for some Big Ed's Pizza. Then again, I never know where I'm gonna be until the phone rings. LoL :drinkup
If I buy Big Ed's pizza. . . we're only 10 minutes from the farm, and you might have to do a motor mount bolt consultation. But. . . you might go back with a MEL 1278 lol. You're likely to need it before I will.
Hello, Willie I have been watching this thread continuously for months now, finally was able to put my 1999 763 on blocks and fix my creepage, the problem I have is once I start it up and lift the cage it dies, even on medium throttle. My adjustment wasn't right, i have left reverse run not creep and it pulls hard left even with right stick all the way forward. My question is, how do I lift the cage and it run without locking the drive annd chocking it down? Please help. Thanks for a awesome thread and any help you can give.
With the machine on supports, wheels off the ground, you have to have the seat bar down, start the engine, and immediately press the drive enable (brake release) button. If the adjustments are way off it will kill the engine before you can get brake released. It's kind of a trick when they get this way, sometimes you have to move position of drive levers to find spot where drive pumps aren't under load so you can release parking brake. I'm a small frame person, I can sit on that front entrance plate, facing rear of machine, start engine and immediately move drive levers to find the spot, then release brake. Once you get brake released you can raise cab, just be mindful you'll likely have wheels turning.
Thanks Willie, I can get it started and it does fine until I lift the cab, once the seat bar comes off its switch the machine bogs down and dies. I had made an adjustment attempt 2 days ago and was able to run with cage up. I did find that the owner before me had pieces of a tin can inserted around the left pintle arm stud. I took that out, lined every thing up as best I could and tightened up. Now it seems that I have that twisted bushing you were talking about earlier, because no matter what I do the left side pump seems to always be engaged. I am getting extremely frustrated, today will be my third day at trying to fix this. I can get it close, like yesterday I spent all day working and tweaking and finally got what I thought was neutral. I got in started it and no tire movement, moved the levers fwd, revs a couple no creeping, then I moved the left lever and the left side started creeping in revs. Today I plan on trying to get the pumps disengaged, so I can find out if I messed it up by removing those pieces. Right now I have to push the left lever forward about 3 inches to disengage the pump. Thank you again for any and all help.
Sounds like you have the old style seat bar that swings backward toward operator. Take a big zip tie and tie that thing off so it doesn't swing back when you raise the cab. Adjusting those things can be tricky. At times I've got 'em spot on first go around. Other times, I've had to bust the adjusting bars and start all over again. Remember, If you've got the aluminum pintle arms, as you're on top of the machine looking toward rear of your machine, loosen the adjusting bar on your left (right side of machine), then proceed to adjust the bar on your right (left side of machine), get that side set first, then move to the opposite side.
Thanks for another awesome thread. Been lurking on this site off and on for a couple of years and finally signed up. Great info here. Duke Rangers Lead The Way
Welcome to HEF Duke. :drinkup
Good morning, I finally got neutral set, but it won't go fwd or rev. Evidently I did something I shouldn't have, does anybody know what I might have done wrong?
Does it make any noise when you push the drive sticks fwd/rev? Do the loader arms and bucket tilt operate?
Hi Willie, Thanks for the reply, yes it makes a whining noise like the pumps are trying to engage but nothing. I didn't move any of that, all I did was lift the cage start it up and loosened both sides then pushed the left lever fwd to neutral and tightened it down, then I moved to the right and did the same thing. After tightening all bolts moved levers several time separately and together and then torqued to 45#. Still had neutral, so I put on ground and tried to back up would barely move, tried to move fwd and it almost wouldn't move. I don't remember whether the bucket worked or not, I do remember lifting and tilting the bucket to clear my blocks. Again without a site like this and the people here, this would be a complete nightmare. Thanks
To be honest, I can't think of anything you could do in adjusting the neutral of the pintle arms that would cause you to lose fwd and rev drive on both sides. I have to ask, are you certain the parking brake is releasing? If yes, and loader arms and bucket still work, I'm kind of stumped. :beatsme
Thanks, I'll look at again tomorrow. Thanks again.
Hey y'all, I reset neutral, the bucket works, replaced the belt that connect to the pintle pump. I have been told that if the tensioner pulley on the pintle pump doesn't keep the right tension that will affect fwd and rev. My other options are to replace that spring and if that doesn't work replace the tensioner pulley on the main drive belt. Every thing worked fine until I tried to fix neutral, now when I try to go fwd or rev, I get a growling type grinding that sound like something is not quite fully engaged. I am at my wits end. Thanks for all help.
Thanks Willie, Just replaced all torsion bushings front and back, flipped the bars and rotated the cams on my 773 F-series using this tutorial. And thanks to some help from crewchief888, I, also, replaced the bics solenoid and stem, cause the one that was on it was rusted to the stem. This solved the lift/tilt problem. Tracked the brake solenoid pull side, white wire and realized it was hooked into the glow plug relay and vise versa. When I switched the plug ins to the correct relay, the machine quit blowing fuses, WAHOO!!! I'll be changing the relay for the glow plugs and all will be well!
Good news to hear dukeyjoe. :drinkup
Excellent job of explaining this on bobcat, how about other brands like say new hollands, my 565 creeps, just haven't had time to look at it and figure out what's going on.
I haven't worked on a NH Randy88, not a strong presence around these parts. Sorry I can't help with that one.
On my S250 it doesn't creep but I can hear hydro fluid flowing. Kinda of a pssshh noise. If I push the levers forward about 1/4" or so it stops. Another 1/4" or so and it starts again. I'm guessing its barely in reverse. Is this worth messing with even? It's a 2003 or 2004 with about 3200hrs.
As long as it's not creeping I wouldn't worry about it yet. Once you raise the seat bar to exit the machine it engages the parking brake. If it does begin creeping it will load the drive hydraulics against the parking brake, you'll want to adjust neutral at that point.
I am a newby This tred is amazing. I have red the intire tred and have learned a great deal. Alittle knoledge is dangerious. I have a 743 BobCat Cerial #5019M30583 that creaps, after reading and studing this tred, I figured I could fix the 743 myself no swet looks easy. I am 71 years old have all the time in the world to do it. Placed BC on Jack stands. Raised OP Cage. Wow Murphys Law this is nothing like Willie95 Photos. Ahwell a little different it is on the side instead of on the top. (wrong) Well here goes I remove the conecting arms that go on to the steering linkage. I remove the spring (did use zip ties) :notworthy How do I remove the steering lingage bracket bar, it slides back and forth this is the plate the pintle is bolted to. What holds it to the Hydrolic Pump
Sorry about that NH Murph. Yes, the 743 is very different, they have Vickers drive pumps with the centering plate mounted on the side of the pumps. I see you've already found help from crewchief at a different thread, you're in good hands with him. Welcome to HEF. :drinkup
Will this also fix a problem with the forward controls returning to neutral? Centering works fine in reverse drive but forward the skidsteer keeps driving forwards for 10-15 feet before it slowly returns to neutral
Sorry about the delay in reply dsinclair88, I've been on vacation. Since it seems the drive neutral is good, I'd disconnect the shock dampeners from the drive link bars and see what it does.
Love your replies and advice. Just got an 873 Bobcat, hard tire that creeps. The difference in this one is there are hydraulic hoses that connect to a "T" on top of the centering plate. Managed to get it turned but not off. Is it necessary to open the hydraulic system and remove the hoses in order to repair the pintle arms, bushings and such? Also I read about the zip ties and it occurred to me that you can remove the nut on the spring and after it comes off just take it your vise and then add the zip ties. No need to try and fish them through while it is on the machine. Also at the end of the coupling arms where the control handles are there are bushing connecting the rotating shaft that couples the handles to the flat plates. Mine are worn out. Can they be replaced on the machine or must the whole assembly be removed first? Thanks
Welcome to HEF Hawk-57. :drinkup Yeah, it's been some time now, but I've worked on one of those that have the big T pipe going right up through the middle of the centering plate. Seems I recall that if all you need to do is work on the pintle arms, you can lift the centering plate up and move it around on the pipe enough to do the work, a bit of a pain to do though with the plate in your way, but can be done. Your 873, does it have the hyd tank up high behind the seat, or is it in the belly of the machine?
does the fluid leak continuously while the seal plate is out? Will I need to work quickly?
It depends on the machine model Axel. Older models that have the hyd tank mounted high behind the operators seat will leak more, later models that have the hyd tank mounted in the belly of the machine will be less, but it's all workable. And the leakage/flow can be beneficial to a degree. When you take these components apart you expose them to dirt/debris. This leakage actually helps flush that debris and prevent it from entering the hyd system. It's all good. But do prepare, have everything ready to do the repair in an expedited manner to keep oil loss (mess) to a minimum.
Thanks, Yeah mine has the tank mounted high. What would you recommend as the BEST oil to replace the bobcat brand stuff? My bobcat is an 863F. what do you think about Mobil DTE 10 Excel 46 or Napa aw32? Are they both antifoaming? for now I just plan to fill up but would like to do a total fluid change soon since I'm guessing it's a cocktail in there.
I'm not familiar with the Mobil DTE 10 oil, don't know the specs, but the AW46 or AW32 should work just fine. I've been using AW46 oil for years with no issues.
spoke with someone at NAPA. He informed me that the Bobcat oil is actually a fancier version of regular AW46 (with antifoaming and other features) He then told me that they have an equivalent to the bobcat stuff, PREMIUM HEAVY DUTY TRACTOR & TRANSMISSION FLUID which sells as NAPA part #85405 $49.99 for 5 gallons they also have a cheaper one that's $2 less After replacing the seals on the pump control shafts will I need to recalibrate anything?
If it's a standard control machine the only thing you might have to adjust would be a slight creep as things typically don't go back together exactly as they came apart. I'm guessing a 763F has aluminum pintle arms, a littly more tricky to adjust than the two piece steel pintle arms.
it's an 863F it does have aluminum linkage with ball joints, not sure if the pintle arms are aluminum I'll have to check
Sorry about getting the model wrong, I was just working on a 763C today, got too dang many Bobcat numbers in my head. Aluminum linkage with ball joints? Is this an AHC machine?
yes AHC. Have you ever rebuilt the seals on a control valve in this model? how challenging is it? is there a seal kit? any super descriptive directions like the ones you have for the seals on the pump control shafts? the reason I ask is that it seems the spools in my control valve may be leaking enough to have cause the tilt actuator to fail. both actuators are pretty oily. I'm hoping to solve the leak especially if I'm about to buy a new actuator. I'm guessing Bobcat dealers are the only sources for actuators?
I see. I don't have any experience with one of those, crewchief would know more about that than me.
ok, thanks for your help with the pump control shaft seals!
how different do you think a spool repair in an 863F would be from the ones you repaired in the 773G? HeavyEquipmentForums other than removing actuators instead of linkages might it be similar?
Again, I have no experience with an AHC machine so I can't answer with any degree of accuracy. But if I'm not mistaken, the control valve itself is no different, it's just the actuators that makes the job different, and there could be a difference with the float detent on the loader arm spool. I just don't know. :beatsme
Is there a way I can save these instructions to a file on my computer for reference or printing? Thanks Bill B
Just got around to doing the control shaft seals. Seems like the dealer sent me the wrong seals... any idea where the seals might be/go on this pump? it's on a 1998 863F with AHC. none of the pumps that I've looked at in the parts diagrams on the Bobcat website look quite like this one.
Will this procedure work on a 2006 S150? I was wondering before I tear into it.
I am on a remote island off Tasmania building a breakwater with a 753. I cannot believe that this thread had the exact fix to my problem of creeping. Thank you so much to the OP for the effort to post the very relevant photos of how to identify the problem, in my case the bolt had fallen out completely on the pintel arm. ' I was quoted an absolute fortune to get6 Bobcat to come on site to fix it....but after reading this thread I had it fixed in less than 20 minutes. absolutely wonderful forum...thanks so much! John
Welcome to HEF z80. :drinkup Good to hear the info got you fixed up.
I'll buy you a slab of beer if you ever come to to Tasmania.....well worth it for the time you took, and so completely accurate.
Bobcat I just wanted to thank you for the information on Bob Cat creep... It finally started to bug me so much I did research on line and found your article. I bought the machine used and was regretting the purchase. It's a 773. Not that many hours on it and the spools and bars were not that worn. However one side was loose. Just an FYI I took the spring out of the machine without caging it. I found it really difficult to get the zip ties in. I did compress the spring and used zip ties to cage it before reinstalling it. Compressed it in my bench vise and used the zip ties to hold it. Worked great. I like the machine now and consider it worth repainting now... Thanks again. Mark
Welcome to HEF norton. :drinkup Good to hear the info helped. Doesn't really matter the method one uses, just as long as the task get accomplished.
once again great thread ,can i ask you guys what your paying for seals and are the OEM only ,i have a toyota skidsteer 4sdk8 and its got sauer danfoss pumps ,after taking the control linkage off it looks like the pics posted of the control shafts and seal set up,can i run a normal double lip seal or does it have to be some special deal
It's been a while since I've done those seals CJR so I can't recall what they cost, I don't think they were terribly expensive though. I've never used a different seal, always went with OEM, so I don't know if something else would work, but if you can source a double lip seal of those dimensions I suppose it's worth a go at it.
Had to ask cause here in oz theres not much choice ,oem want $100 per seal or there abouts, It seems that the moment the word skidsteer or viton is mentioned the price either goes up or It becomes too hard for most parts places, well i found a few matches after some serious cross refrencing one workshop has claimed to be able to supply for half of oem a bearing shop has sourced a few for around 30 dollars each ,just curiuos what genuine bobcat seals cost ,after all there only 1inch x1 1/2 x 1/4 steel back double lip viton ,thanks willie:thumbup: Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2
I feel your pain, parts can be insane. Like a typical AC compressor for a Komatsu CD110 dumper, $1,700 USD. A FREAKING AC COMPRESSOR...REALLY! Again, I can't recall what I paid for those seals from Bobcat, but I can assure you, they weren't $100 per seal, I would remember that if they were. Like I said, for those prices, if you find something else then by all means I'd sure give it a go.
:update Seeing as we pay crazy prices here in Oz,i have found a replacement seal for the control shafts as oem toyota here want $100 + each,i sourced these at $28 each,they are identical in every respect ,the part number IS , 9879 CRWA1 v hope someone else finds this helpful Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2
Heres a few pics Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2
Awesome! :drinkup
updated pintle arms 175 First let me say great write up willie59. I hope you see this question soon however. Bobcat decided to do away with the aluminum pintles, and has updated them to the cheap heavy cumbersome chinese variation. This has been a pita! !!! Not only did I have to buy thr arms, but to add insult to injury bobcat failed to inform me (at least my local dealer did, BINGHAM) that this requires purchasing the entire assembly!!! WTFF!?!? Through trial and error i finally got both arms on and secured to the pump (thanks to willie59) i realized that with all the added bulk of the new style pintle arm the old centering plate will not fit over the new arms. Am i overlooking something here?? Not only has this couple hour job turned into my machine being down all week, mostly because of necessary parts being ordered 1 or 2 at a time, but its been expensive as well. Why in the world wouldnt bobcat include every nut and bolt needed for a swap? At least inform the customer what is required to make it work. My question for you willie59, is, do i need to replace the centering plate or is there a trick to get it over the larger pintle arm on the right side? It seems like the tabs that hold the rubber grommets need to be about 1/2" longer to compensate for the added thickness of the steel pintle arm. I installed everything according to your photos and the illustration in the parts manual. No matter which way i turn twist rotate or force it, there is no room between the centering block on the plate and the right pintle arm. I may be able to install it if i bolt the centering bar to the plate after i slide it over the pegs, but i was too exhausted tonight to keep at it. I will start with a fresh mind in the morning, hopefully either you or bobcat service dept. Will have the answers i am looking for. If i end up having to fork out more dough to make this work I'm going to make sure the poor sunuvabitch on the phone at bobcat knows the precise level of frustration i am feeling about their bright idea on changing the design. Please if anyone else has input on this i need the assistance ASAP [email protected]
here are the pics . obviously something here doesnt fit. bobcat is no help and they tell me this is the only pintle arm available for my serial number..HELP
I can't tell for certain because of the angle of the pics, but it looks like you have the wrong centering plate, that looks like the centering plate for the aluminum one piece pintle arms. The two piece steel pintle arms require a centering plate that has oblong shaped holes in order to do the creep adjustment, see the holes in the plate in pic below. Now, what I don't know, I don't know if the brackets that the guide pins are mounted in is different between the two pintle arm versions, therefore I can't say for certain this will fix your problem. But best I can see your pics your centering plate has two round holes just above the bolts that mount the drive lever links, no oblong holes. If that's the case, you for sure have the wrong centering plate.
Yep. I friggin knew it! I had enough and got that lazy parts guys boss on the phone and what do ya know, they DO sell the aluminum arms. He was being lazy and was just going off of my serial number, and even though intold him i had the aluminum ones, he insisted i had the steel version. Turns out the serial number on this machine says it came with steel, but for som3 reason i got lucky and have the one piece version. I followed the rest of your tutorial and its like brand new. The guys will be pleased the next time they are in a back yard next to an 8' brick wall haha, that thing was impossible to control and a serious safety hazard! Thanks willie youre the man.
I don't know if the parts guy was being lazy or what, no way I can say, but if he knows Bobcat well at all, the S/N doesn't always confirm which pintle arms are fitted to the machine, Bobcat has been mixing those parts up for years as long as I've been working on them. Maybe the M Series has got it sorted out and only use the 2 piece steel pintle arms, don't know, haven't worked on them enough yet to know, but with the G Series cab, it's a toss up, especially the earlier year models.
starting some where with the K series machine ( basically a G series with a hyd driven fan) bobcat changed from the aluminum levers to a 2 pc steel design. the early design is no longer available, and has been replaced with an updated design that doesnt fall apart :cussing steering adjustments are much faster/easier with the 2pc design. the new 2 pc levers arent a replacement for the older aluminum. whatever your pump has on them, thats what they have to be replaced with. several years ago, bobcat changed the press in bushing for the "redesigned" aluminum lever. with the new (larger OD) bushing you need a longer bolt and an additional washer. i'm really surprised an authorized bobcat dealer's parts dept could screw this up.. :duh :drinkup
How much did the arms cost. My 751 has the alloy arms but I'm in Australia so I'm curious how much of a price difference there is. Cheers. Adam.
I've just redone my 751 but I also had to change both bell cranks and the bushings for them. I found the whole job fairly straight forward and I was surprised by the price of the pintle arms and bell cranks, 46 AUD each for the arms and 130 AUD each for the bell cranks. Changing the bell cranks wasn't too difficult but took a bit if fiddling to get one end out to slide them off the shaft. Once both were done it was like driving a new Bobcat. One thing I will tell you is that the original bell cranks are obsolete and the new ones take a 26.5mm torsion bushing, not the 22.5. There's a note in the parts book so check it before you take the parts home.
I'd also like to add that when I was doing up the bolts in the torsion bushes I nipped them up then backed off the bolt just enough to allow the bolt to turn in the bush and locked it up with the lock nut. This way the bush isn't twisting every time you move the levers. All my torsion bushes were torn apart internally. Adam.
Nice work Ads. :drinkup
Thank you Willie59, I have my 743 up on blocks trying to find where the hydraulic oil is leaking from the valve bank. Thought I would check this forum to see if there was a more common place on the valve bank that often leaks, when I found this most interesting thread. My machine also creeps forward but only when it first starts, after it runs for 10-20 minutes it idles in neutral. I will inspect the parts for wear and adjust as you described. Perhaps one of my snags will be repaired.
Most common leak on valve bank is the seals on the spools. also could be one or more of the jam nuts on the hose fittings loosened up and leaking where it goes into valve.
Thank you.
Just want to thank Willie59 and all others who've contributed to this long and old thread. Just got done with the creeper repairs on a 773G. Unit had the aluminum pintle arms so they got new bushing, rotated the centering spools & flipped the centering bars. First one I've ever done and with all the input on this site it was a piece of cake. Todd at Bobcat of Madison (Wis.) was awesome and lined up all the correct parts and this thing drives like a dream! Just a question of curiosity - could a unit with creep cause damage to the lock pin in the park brake system due to loading against it all the time? This was a project for my wife's dad and he'd had to replace the lock pin assy in the park brake system and I was just wondering if the creeping problem may have contributed. Thanks again for the excellent info!
machine that are creeping really bad, or for a long time, have a tendency to bend the long bolt, and mangle the spring on the brake system. the constant "push" and slamming the machine back and forth to release the brake loosens the 4 guide bolts, the guides fall into the chaincase along with the plunger, springs, and wedge. let it go long enough, then one of the pieces gets jammed under a sprocket and if you're lucky only jams up that side. worst case is the debris gets jammed into the bottom of the chaincase, and lets all the oil out.
Agreed, it's worth pulling the parking brake dog out and give it a good inspection. Another thing that can cause parking brake dog damage is a parking brake solenoid that goes up in smoke while driving. Had that happen to me once in a 773G going full tilt. Man...talk about putting the brakes on! Good to hear you got your machine fixed up WIG6000
Willie59: New to this forum. Usually go to skidsteer forum but could not find what I needed. You are a lifesaver and a big bucks saver! Thank you ever so much for your detailed, photographic post. I have a 2000 763 Bobcat that was doing a lot of jerking in forward and reverse at full rpms and low speed. Replaced four torsion bushings and one pintle arm. Getting neutral setting had me stymied until I saw your post. Hope you are still around to see that you are still appreciated.!!!! WRB1717
Willie59: New to the forum. Usually go to skidsteer forum but could not find what I needed. You are a lifesaver and a big buck saver. I have a 2000 Bobcat 763. It was jerking in forward and reverse at full rpms and low speed. At full speed in forward and reverse it was okay. I replaced four torsion bushings and one pintle lever (aluminum). Getting the neutral setting had me stymied till saw your post. Your detailed, photographic posting was spot on. Thank you ever so much. I am a fan. Since I saw your posts were from 7+ years ago, I can only hope you are still around to see that you are still appreciated. WRB1717
Yep, I'm still here WRB1717, welcome to HEF, and it's good to hear the info helped sort out your problem, that's the very reason I took the time to document stuff like that.
hi wille you have an excellent diy thread for a creeping bobcat. Unfortunately cant get mine to keep creeping 1 side goes forward and the other goes backwards. previous owner tried fixing this prior selling it to me and replaced all the bushings and cam lobes. bars have very minor wear as they were turned . I cant seem to figure it out. Only issue I see is the levers dont match possibly something bent? pump is not in the right location?
got it all fixed THANK YOU
Persistence has its rewards. Good to hear you got it sorted out.
Willie59; Just wanted to throw out some help for that centering spring on this model, I usually just take it completely off of the machine. With the spring having zero tension, it is much easier to get both of your zip ties in. Once they are in, put the spring in a vise and tighten both zip ties at the same time as you tighten the vise. This takes out the pain in the butt getting your zip ties in with all the hoses etc in the way.
Right you are Mears1, that's the method I've settled on as well, works really well.
Someone should buy this man a very very nice bottle of whatever his favorite spirit is...Hey OM, if you send me your business mailing address I have a client who I will hold to the fire for whatever it is you want short of Louis XIII Congac...That I'm keeping for myself.... An excerpt from a tech manual is one thing, a blow by blow narrative with pictures even from someone who is not a technical writer behind a desk but a guy on the floor with a flashlight in his mouth, dirt in his eyes and a wrench in his hand is priceless . I am SURE this has made so many lives easier and wallets thicker for your effort. Drum Roll...I rapidly stand and execute snappy hand salute to the East good Sir...Bravo, Bravo...Everyone sings "For He's a Jolly good fellow! For He's a Jolly good fellow!", you know the rest.... Seriously, send address: Its the LEAST I can make the owner do...Last guy told him "You need a new Turbo Dude...Wont run without it..itll fix all your steering problems..." Yeah...Right...Sure it will....Now pass me that can of Ether will you? Many Many thanks...
Suggested replacing the turbo to fix the steering problems? Damn...I've heard it all now!
I'm new here. Been wanting / needing a skid steer for years but always beyond my budget... until now. I got a cheap S130 from a rental shop with bad steering problems, actually dangerous jerking bad enough to bring the wheels off the ground. The rental shop said it probably needed a new hydrostatic motor. I realize your post was ten years ago, but what a life saver. As a container ship captain I've read many technical manuals, but nothing as clear and understandable as this. My 4200 hr. Bobcat now operates like brand new and I'm a happy guy. Thanks a million. Sir, you are the best!
Hello Been lurking on here for a while now and was wondering how the cam followers have worked out? I have a used 2009 T190 with 3200 hrs and the cams have been turned 3 times by previous owner. It creeps and I am going to repair in the spring. just wondering if the cam followers is working better. Thanks for all the good ideas and advice I see on this site. Pat.
Excelente..! quedo excelente mi S130 desde Chile ... muchas Gracias... Excelente y detallada informacion....
EXCELENTE PARA MI BOBCAT S130
Is there a trick for seating the bushings in the steering bars. I got the old ones out but was only able to get one fully seated using a c clamp. I have a 751F and don't have shocks behind the seat panel. I'm going to try washers on bolts and use an impact but wondering what you use Old Machinist. Thanks for all your great posts including this one. Saved me a lot of headaches when I did my spool seals in that write up too
This is a great place for info, thank you for all The knowledge I have learned here. I have an 863 bobcat that the left controller that makes it go forward and backwards is not in neutral position and machine tries to go forward and to the right if it starts once I wiggle the controller to try to find neutral. This was supposed to be repaired at the shop by professionals before I got it. They charged enough that It should be all new and it didn’t have this prob after they worked on it but every now and then it would hang up. It keeps getting worse and more frequent and now it’s basically just stuck this way. What is it that they forgot to do that is causing this issue ?
Is a 753 and 863-G alike the way the steering levers are set up as far as how to adjust them ?
Nov- 2020 will be trying this on my 2002 s185. Thanks for the write-up !
3 post then i can post a pic
Pic
Willie 59, how do i get that piece of the pump that is now sticking above the case back down? I took the seal plate off to replace the seal, i took the flat seal off and that part popped up and no will not go back down
Yellow arrow pointing to the part in question
I got it
For anybody else that runs into this problem, i had to pry the square shaft towards the inside of the machine and lightly tap on that ring with a brass hammer to get it to seat back down then while tightening the seal plate down also gave it a slight pry to get the plate to mate with the too of the case, i tightened to 25ftlbs i dont know if thats correct but thats what they were torqued to before i removed them
Thanks so much, Willie59! This is a very well-done post and I all appreciate all the work you put into it. We have a 2019 T450 that has this same problem. I thought it had been fixed under warranty but turns out the operator never took it in... so I may be doing this soon. Hopefully, the T450 will be approximately the same. Thanks again!
Thanks I spent hours looking for info on this
Great thread! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for a great tutorial! I've replaced the centering blocks and spools on my 773 and put everything back together. Machine is up on blocks and when I try to start it to make final neutral adjustments it makes a grinding noise and won't start. The centering bars contact the spools and the pintle arms are tight. The service manual says back the torsion bushings off so they can spin freely, maybe that's my problem? The odd time I can get it to run for about 3-5seconds before it starts the grinding noise and stalls. Any tips you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Just a farmer trying to save some $$$.
That's because neutral is now out of adjustment from doing the repairs. Upon start up it's trying to drive with the parking brake engaged, which locks the parking brake because it's now under tension, you have to get that parking brake released so you can make the neutral adjustments by manipulating the sticks fore or aft slightly while cranking and releasing the brake. Only other option is to remove the parking brake locking plate until you make adjustment. Myself, I've always managed to get that brake released.
Thank you for the response. I managed to get it released and neutral adjusted properly this afternoon. Next I need to figure out why none of the lights work.
Fantastic info willie...much appreciated. Mine does this ever-so-slightly...not enough to bother me just yet. I have a neighbor that has a New Holland skidsteer that was creeping pretty profusely, and he fixed it with a piece of mechanics wire looped around the drive handle, attached to the side window panel to hold the stick in neutral, lololololol...
LoL, as they say, necessity is the mother of invention. By far, my favorite that I've ever ran across was an old Bobcat 753 C series. Gas spring on the lap bar was dead. Easy enough, simply replace the gas spring, right? Nope, this customer rigged up an elaborate bungy system to support the lap bar. At first glance I shook my head a laughed, but once I used it in working on the machine, the damn setup worked absolutely perfect, just as good as the gas spring. I was impressed by the creative ingenuity.
Hahaha, that's exactly right; necessity being the mother of invention. I'll be honest...my lap bar safety didn't work when I bought it, and the guy I got it from told me it didn't right up front, as the parking brake doesn't work either. (This 843 has the parking brake pedal on the floor between the loader foot controls.) The lap bar issue doesn't really bother me, because my machine was evidently built for an Ethiopian guy. I'm fairly "thick", and that bar made me inhale as hard as I could, get the bar down and then exhale and I was stuck there with no wiggle room...so I decided to bungee the bar up to the ceiling and not use it at all, lol. I do use the seat belt though, when I get into situations where I need the stability... which is very seldom. I only use my rig around my yard mostly anyways, for lifting pallets and occasionally to grade the driveway, it's not out on many jobs and I'm the only one that runs it, so it's a little different story than having 15 guys jumping in and out of it all day.
Will this work for a 05 t190 what are the bushing I would need mines creep to the left
The tutorial was pretty good but couldn't really see the pictures that well when I tried to enlarge them
excellent instructions, this will fix my problem. thanks
Yeah, the pics suck. At the time I did this I was using a Blackberry phone that the camera was acting goofy, didn't take good pics at all, I was very disappointed with them, but it's what I had to work with at that moment.
Advise if you have any. Just repacked both lift cylinders/arms and replaced both the oil seal and orings on each pump on my dad’s 2012 T650. Had the machine on blocks and refilled the machine with hyd fluid. Adjusted for neutral on both pumps. As soon as I pulled it out of the shed it constantly wants to lose power and die on me doesn’t matter if it’s at low or high idle. *right stick feels a little more touchy than left, the left feels a bit stiff. Machine only has 2500 hours on it. The right pump was leaking and I figured since I already had it apart might as well do the left. Thanks
Should also mention the machine is new to us. Ran great when he bought it (bought it not even a month ago). In the last month we’ve completely degreased and pressure washed it inside and out. Changed out the bobtach tapered pins and bushings. Changed the oil, air filters, main hydraulic filter, as well as the charge filter under the cab before refilling after we repacked the cylinders and resealed the pumps. Like I said it starts then runs then when you move 20-30yds it starts to lose power then dies. Bobtach, tilt, lift cylinders all work. There was zero creep when I adjusted and the sticks all returned after pulling each stick forward and reverse. I don’t believe we could have messed the pump up. Made sure to have the top of each pump clean before we removed the plate to the seals so dirt and grime wouldn’t fall down in the pump. I also learned that the fuel pickup line is underneath the pump under the cab. It has to be be the neutral adjustment because that’s physically the only thing we touched internally the pump seals. Possibility that I got grease/water around that grommet and into the tank? Thanks.