I will be replacing the bushings and pins in my backhoe and i need to know what steel to use for my pins and if i will need to heat treat them? The bushing will be 2in DOM C1020 steel with a bore of 1.5 I have access to 1018,1045,1117 11L17,1215,A-36 steel for the pins.I also need to know how much clearance i need between the two.
Another good place to post that question. These guys know their stuff: http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21
Thanks Phil I have it posted in there Metallurgy and Materials fourm. I have posted it in six or seven fourms and havent got an answer yet.
My only advice is to rephrase the question to "what should I use?" and put in a general section where many more will view it. There are many small machine shops out there that might offer advice, in person. I think most of these pins get hardened, the steel used might depend more on the hardening process, not sure...Phil
Why not just use the OEM replacement parts. The major manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to make bushuings and pins that are perfect for the inteneded application. They should have the right processes and alloys/admixes already. I have been to the Cat factory in Peoria and saw first hand many of the processes they employ to make their pins and bushings hard.
I need to replace pins and busings on my IH 3500 A soon so I have started down the same path. The stock parts punch: 58C for the bushing and 60C for the pin. This is pretty hard, making the parts out of 1020 steel will give short life. ( I think mild steel is 20B ) The parts will need to be machined then hardened, haven't given it more thought lately as to what steel will work. http://www.ebushing.com/ Has industrial standard size bushings, but nothing that will fit my bucket side.
your just asking for trouble pony up for the oem stuff youl spend mor time jacking around even if you go to some place that makes pins for a living there still lame the hardning is very shallow and if you have ever tried to get a bent pin out of 3 bores good luck oem isnt just higer priced cause they like to make money they spend alot of time developing hardning poccess. not just cutting of a piece cold roll sticking it in a oven then dumping it in water.
I have used old cylinder rods for pins, in a pinch. If left on, the chrome adds a hard surface and generally the material is very tough. Some applications though can put a pin to the test. Phil
I would go with oem stuff myself... Save some time
Time is the only thing you save with most oem stuff! They can have a massive mark up! But i will say that if you use hardened bushes, you will need a hardened pin. Heres a link to a supplier in the U.S www.cylinderservices.net they do hardened bushes and pin, do'nt know any thing about them or there prices, (just found them on the net) but i have a supplier in the U.K that can supply me with hardened steel and bronze bushes for a faction of the oem price! I also make them from a special lubricated nylon materail (Oilon) its VERY hard wearing suff and works well with EN24T pin it can be case hardened and is very durable steel for pins! CPS
they were asking a grand a pop for lower kom 355 ripper pins so cust found some place to make them 300 each 2 weeks later he,s mad because the pin locks had twisted off. both pins had bent so bad probly cost 3 grand to get them out line bore and ended up buying oem ones any way. but do what you want.
Pins. Hello. I fully agree, OEM is the way to go, unless you can rebuild the ones you have. I have taken the pins out of my backhoe and had metal sputtered on them at an Air Force facility. They would start the machine up in the morning and sputter metal onto a piece of scrap until the thing was "up to speed" I simply brought mine in and used them in the morning. Took me a week to do all of the bushings, but the end product is at least 5 times stronger than factory. I also had sintered brass coatings done to the loader pins, way smoother than even factory!
I inquired about my hoe's swing bushings at my local bearing supply outlet. One suggestion was this place: http://www.carrlane.com/Catalog/ind...006280B1713050245221E0107070F1A3C3B28535A4359
Phil Do you have a place to get replacement pins other then using OEM? I have a JD210C, most likely will have to change all the pins and bushings on this unit. One pin I priced for the bucket from JD dealer was over $250CAN....ouch.
I don't have a source for pins, but I haven't been looking hard either. I use a local machinist for parts that are hard to get or priced too high. He's very reasonable and sends most pieces out to get hardened. Most pins on the older hoes have the grove for a retaining ring. I can't help but think someone out there sells these reasonable. I think you could do better on the pin price, especially if you had several to machine. Phil
Bailynet. com, sells cylinder rod buy the foot, the stuff is realy strong, and plated to boot, Check out there site. I have used old cylinder rod in the past and it works great. Bailynet also stocks a few hardended bushings at a good price. OEM parts are out of site, there was another site a while back that had all kind of surplus pins and bushings, If I can find it I will post it later on. I have seen pins just snap into pieces, after many hours of home made tempering attempts
CNC Copying Lathe. Hello. If you have factory original new pins you can put them in a copying lathe. At that point you will have an exact copy of the originals, and why they need to be new. In place of some complex heat treating you will be better off by having them shot peened and induction oven annealed, alloy coated and again induction oven annealed.
What are the original dimension's of the pin's and bushing's for the bucket to extendahoe? MY shop manual doesn't give sizes. I have a Case 580 SE, access to machining and the will to save more than a few buck's. Plus my P+B's are so sloppy I'd be better with my home made to what I'm using now.
Pins & bushings - 73 580b - source? Phil... I'm in the Kingston, Ontario area and looking at redoing pins & bushings for the whole swing tower. Is your machinist anywhere nearby? Are there any good boneyards for 580b parts out your way? Have to repin pretty much the whole swing tower, which is pretty sloppy. My other option is replacing the swing tower casting... saw one for $450.00 that was pretty tight. Anybody else been down this road? regards... d2r [email protected]
www.conequipmentparts.com and www.brokentractor.com may have the pins and bushing you need about 1/2 price of OEM. I purchase cylinder seals, pins, bushings and a complete cylinder from conequipmentparts. Service is great and parts are just as good as OEM. Cylinder arrived painted JD yellow and all.
Deon... Thanks for this. I was kinda hoping Dr Phil would throw in here as well. I think we're in the same neck of the woods (well, within an hour or so, I'm guessing) and I was hoping to piggyback on his knowledge of local sources & suppliers. As for simply machining up pins & bushings and throwing them in as some have suggested... fwiw, once upon a time I worked for a heat treating place... it's important to have machine tools properly hardened. If it's soft enough to turn on a lathe... it ain't hard enough to stand up for too long. regards... d2r
Understand the minimum you could use for the pins I would say a 1045, whey not just fo to a machine shop get em made and drilled for grease if they have to be then heat treat them. As for the bushings, whoever told you to use DOM C1020 steel did you no favours. Understand that C1018 and C1020 are your basic everyday MILD steels. I would use hard brass. DOM is drawm over mandrel It is still ERW tubing. it has been drawn over a mandrel to smooth and relieve welding stress. Your local machine shop can help you out alot more than you think. You got a 2" pin you said and I think you are hoping to buy some tubing, cut it to length and drive it in the bore. It ain't gonna work. also the bores where the bushings go are they O K ? I think this money saving shortcut is gonna haunt you bad. I would buy from dealer or get a machine shop to make The parts for you. Also if the bores are bad get them line bored. Here is something I think some people should try: get a proper brass bushing somewhere and try drill it and then use you same hand drill and same bit and drill your mild steel. ( you will be surprised ) also your 1045 carbon steel still needs to be hardened it is about 30Rockwell low on the surface for a wear pin