When to unload my hoe today, noticed one side of the trailer was sagging down. Discovered the big hinge pin in the neck was broken nearly clean off on one side. Got this far today. 4" diameter pin, the pin bosses are about 6" long, pin is NOT MOVABLE. I don't have a piercing torch so a friend is going to come with an air arc and blow through. I went through almost two tanks of air cutting and heating, trying to get them out myself.
Luckily you caught it when you did . Any other damage ? Might be a good idea to replace both pins .
Dang Shimmy, not good, but as TD said at least you caught it when you did! We had one of the dogs that allows deck height adjustment crack at the weld and that made me panic.
It's one pin, all the way through. So, there are 3 bosses underneath that have a chunck of pin stuck in them. The pin is 66" long.
Won't know for sure until we get the new pin and try and install it. The side that broke looks like it might be tweaked a little, but those frame sides can move in and out when they're not held by the pin so......we will see.
Yeah got it Shimmy 1 . Just trying to figure out why the shaft broke . Any grease fittings on the pin boss ?
There was a fitting on each end of the pin. They have never taken grease. Tried to get them open with one of those grease busters, but never succeeded. I've only had the trailer for a couple years. It is a '95. Wouldn't think you could twist off a 4" pin but apparently it's possible.
Was there a piece of the pin that came out from the outside that you didn't torch..? A close-up photo of the broken end would be interesting......
Haven't got it out yet. It is siezed in the outside as well on the side that broke. It wasn't broke completely off yet, luckily for me. I'll try and describe it though. It was very rusty, for sure it has been broke a while, but still hanging by a thread. It was like a bomb went off in the center of the pin. All kinds of square-ish shards, almost resembling keystock. There were many fractures parallel to the pin, and then the pieces just failed one by one. Now that I'm describing it, I'll bet it was caused by the pin seizing in the pin boss, and many twists back and forth. Grease fitting are put in things for a reason.
What it looked like before I cut it apart.
Hard to say from that angle. If you can preserve at least part of the pin without having to cut it where it failed the fracture face might be interesting to look at.
It is hard to tell, but looks to me like a torque failure, not what you would expect if it just sheared?
I agree with Shimmy though - maybe a lack of grease had something to do with it...... those grease nipples weren't put on as ornaments. Also maybe the pin is designed to rotate somewhat under load..?
Is that an XL Specialized trailer?
That's why she broke Shimmy1 . :yup Have seen scissor hoist on dump trucks fail in the same way . Pins & bosses tight & lack of grease , something has to give . I was going to suggest installing grease fittings in the neck boss . Can you get a new shaft from the dealer ? Smack on the old one with hammer & center punch to see how hard it is . I bet it's just a 4" diameter piece of cold roll shaft ?
Yes.
Well Shimmy,,, that's too bad. That's one of the results of living in cold country when they salt the roads all the time. I bought an end dump that had the frame bent because the hinge pins seized up. Best advice would be to throw your truck keys in a pale of water at night. When the day comes they become froze in, leave the truck and trailer set there til spring when you can reach in and take the keys out of the water. (wish I could practice what I preach.)
Yeah, in three weeks. It took XL 8 hrs. to get a blueprint to the dealer so we knew for sure what size it should be. 3 15/16". What an oddball. So, my machine shop is building one. Whatever they're using it comes oversize and they will turn it down to proper size. Drill the bolt holes in the ends for the lock collars. $850. Thought that is pretty reasonable. It's 64" long. And yes, I will be installing grease fittings in the pin bosses.
Yeah, the trailer is 20 yrs old. I would be nice if guys knew what the hell a grease gun is for. I tried to get the pin to take grease when we got it. Wasn't happening. Never thought it would come to this though.
Sounds like a good plan Shimmy1 .
I wonder if it was overloaded enough to bend the pin, and what part that would have played in the series of events.
I'm sure if the trailer could talk it'd scare the hell out of you. My uncle used to get machinery loads from the outfit that had it before me. Said that it had a flip on it just about all the time, and more than once was hooked to a jeep.
That used to be the way with shafting, all the raw material came rough, so a 4" rough piece of stock trued out to 3-15/16, about a 30 thousandths cut and polish it in.
Eggzactly....probably 4140-ht, tough enough, but at Rockwell Rc28-30 still machinable, and not going to shatter.
That's what they're using Digger Doug. 4140.
shimmy1 do you know any one that does heavy hauling out of canada I bought a extec S5 today in edmonton and need it hauled at least back to north dakota or preferably back to NC kinda need it asap it has it own 3 axles in back and is about 75,000pds
Ready to put pin in in the morning.
Would I be correct in assuming it'll take grease this time..?
It better. What are your thoughts on making a grease groove around the inside? I have a deburring bit that looks like a BB on the end.
I think I would put the pin in first and try greasing it and observe where the grease comes out. If it all tends to come out of the housing at the top where the grease fitting is located then you can pretty well guarantee the bottom of the pin isn't getting greased. That would make it a prime candidate for creating some sort of grease groove around the inner surface of the housing. A shallow groove maybe about 1/16-1/8" deep made with your deburring tool ought to work. All you need to do is get grease to move from the fitting location at the top of the housing right round the surface of the pin before it starts heading outwards. Question: Does the pin tend to "walk" around while the trailer is in operation..?
There are three fittings per boss, as the pics in post #27 show. It was a breeze to put together. Pushed it in by HAND up to the other side. A few taps with a 8# sledge and it was through. Greased up, could turn the pin round and round with my pliers on the bolt. Could not possibly have went any better.
I think you're golden.... I would bet the trick is to keep a grease gun in the gooseneck, give them all a shot when you have it disconnected so there's no load at all on the pin?
YA BUDDY. :beerchug Now if I could just find someone that will chip in for the $2000 bill to cut the old pin out. The guy was all smart@$$ when I called him, says "No problem, I'll blow them right out with the air arc." I said, "They are about 5-6" long, 4" in diameter." NO PROBLEM. Took him all day, 9 hrs, ended up cutting two with the torch.
I've done pins with an air arc, it's murder after the first inch. The air stream flows down alongside the carbon rod, it's designed to go sideways, not straight in. The piercing setups work because the air or oxy stream is in the center, you can work it right on through. Mag drill might have been a better bet, in 20/20 hindsight, drill it through, then drill it bigger, then use the biggest cutting torch tip you can get and blow it on out. After a bit you could probably let it cool and it would shrink and knock right out. File that for the next poor sod that has to do this.
I as going to ask how that went, if you had known that going in you might have been able to burn away at it yourself eh? At least it is back together and will never be a problem again.
The answer for long large diameter pins is always the good old thermic lance ...... :IMO
I'll second Nige on the oxy lance, burned several pins out of excavator booms with one, hot miserable work but nothing else will come close to what it will do.
Agreed. Sometimes in the bush though, you gotta make do with what you got. Still, 9 hours?
So North Dakota qualifies as the bush then..?
It was a judgment call. Hire the work and keep working myself, or stay home and fix it. Moneywise, it was probably a wash, plus I still have my hair and eyeballs.
"In the bush" could be construed as anywhere not in a machine shop with any such tool as might be needed. I haven't researched one of these "oxy lances". Or a piercing torch? Are they technically the same? Should it be on the wish list?
A thermic lance is really only any good for blowing through long large-diameter pins where an air-arc would tend to blow back in the user's face after an inch or so of penetration into the end of the pin. It's not really any good for anything else. This is one of the clearest explanations I can find of how it works. http://www.krl.com.au/whatisalance.htm
They are becoming more prevalent, and less expensive, but I'm not sure I could find one in my small town, could have one in a day or two of course. North Dakota I have heard has a little boom going on there, something to do with making holes in the ground and now and then one of the natives, they may even apply for statehood. Yeah, most of it would be "Bush" I think, lol :tong
I got 2 of them at an auction for about $100 each. Keep one in the truck and one in the shop. They are great for removing pins.
I have a lance it will blow through a 12 inch long pin 3 inchs in diameter in about 30 seconds. With 1/4 inch rod. Kit was $1200 cdn. The rods are the pricey bit like $30 bucks each and haven't seen a place that sells them by the rod.
I knew I'd seen pictures of this. I just got my trailer apart here: HeavyEquipmentForums I think my trailer was on its way to shattering like shimmy1's did. My shaft was actually seized and wrapping/ torqueing itself up and down. I thought it was split in one of the collars, but the movement from one end to the other in the shaft was it just twisting. I torched my pins out. Just took a little time. I've never seen a thermic lance like nige shows. I'm not sure how you would keep from damaging the collars/bushings being 6' away from it. I was thinking of something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBON-ARC-...000565?hash=item1c6524e335:g:ISkAAOSwKfVXHVNU Or was I better off with my torch?
thermic lance would be like what we call a hot rod but on a much larger scale tube filled with magnesium and such with oxygen shooting thru it , we had small setups at demo company I used to work at they used them for getting the jaw pivot pins out of genisis shears
I own a carbon arc torch, don't use it much these days. I've tried to pierce pins with it, after about an inch of depth the air can't find it's way out and you end up wearing more hot metal than anything. This type of torch with hollow rods is what you need for the average pin and bolt sizes, there are several brands: http://www.alcaminc.com/exothermic-torch.html
Can you keep from gouging into the outer collars with one of those? When you're blowing along with the torch, you can see the difference between the shaft and the outer collar, and just blow up to it. These were 2 5/8" pins, the longest 6" long. If I would have had something with more penetration, I could have left the outer forks and inner tower together, and then the pin would have been close to a foot long. Could you blow out a 1' long pin, 3" diameter and not hit the bushings? I knew I couldn't with my torch, so I split it.
I've not done it myself but guys tell me they can punch about an inch hole as long as the hollow rods are, the fire oxidizes the molten metal and blows it back around the outside of the rod.
"it will even handle cast iron, stainless steel, high alumina refractory, SLANG and concrete." For the Australians maybe? A black iron pipe hooked up to oxygen is all it takes to make an oxygen lance. If I ever have to try it, it will be rigged on supports to go straight in with me off to the side, but I'm getting too old for fun like that.
I heard it was good to use a black iron pipe with a couple gas welding rods running through the middle to add a little more steel to the mix then attach the hose to a high pressure oxygen regulator. Also a couple aluminum rods added to the steel rods can increase the heat output.
pretty much, I tried it messing around with some steel brakeline once along time ago just takes 2 people one to start the metal you want to cut burning with a torch, thicker it is easier it is to keep going still burnt the crap outmyself and almost burnt down neighbors garage .
Ahem, for slang, read "Slag" thank you for playing, LOL!
Thanks guys for the info. I don't when/if I'll need such a thing, but if I do, I'll at least know what I'm looking for.