Look what Deere posted on YouTube this month.
Did John Deere concede the law suit? I can only imagine what that would cost to use.
I think Deere is trying to promote the idea that the farmers can work on their own equipment, "LOOK what we are doing"- because they are afraid of the current right to repair legislation sitting in a lot of states right now. They don't want to continue to spend the lawyer fees to fight their customers. I found it hilarious in this video from a month ago- the chief technology officer of Deere is interviewed, and declares that the software to run a tractor should be compared to the aviation industry, not consumer electronics. I've never thought of a tractor breaking down in the field, quite the same as a 767 falling out of the sky with 200 people on board, but he evidently thinks they are comparable. The John deere guy talks about it at the 13:50 mark in the video if you don't want to sit through the whole thing.
That guy is a tool! Everyone that wants to control what you can or cannot do uses the word safety. I for one cannot stand when someone interjects themselves into my daily comings and goings. Using for my safety as a reason. It is no one's business if what I am doing is unsafe. It only becomes someone's business if my unsafe actions will hurt another person. I work at a dealership and I can tell you that it's nearly impossible to bypass any safety features even for troubleshooting purposes. Yes I can turn off parameters, but for a customer version that is easily remedied. Farmers simply want to be able to fix their equipment and have the ability to do so accurately and quickly. When you have a time sensitive crop. You can't wait 3 weeks for the only person that can connect to your machine to show up. And then another week for parts to show up. I can go on forever on this subject. F.U. safety nazis!
Looks like about $4,500 to get into it, and $2,500 per year thereafter to maintain.
One or two service calls can justify that cost.
My farming grandparents only made a profit 1 year out of 30. I can see the cost of this or a major breakdown/repair putting most farmers in the red.
I was thinking that most farmers today wouldn't think that's too expensive. But the big farmers today are using $500,000 combines and $250,000 tractors and a head for the combine is $150,000. A iowa farmer sitting on 1,000 acres of paid for ground at $10,000 a acre evaluation, has a couple coins to jingle together.
Yes, but they are definitely squeezing all they can out of it at that cost.
The wheat farms in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana start at 1,000 acres. The big farms in the northwest trade the iron in every third year for another.
Around here a 1000 acres is small potato's. Average is 3,500 acres and up. The use of the word safety these days is common-People throw the {Safety Card} at the drop of a hat. I have drivers pull that {Safety Card} all the time, till I blow a hole in their plan. That video is the standard fair {pandering} that big industry put's out to lull people into thinking {They are on your side and really understand your needs} Solutions-Is another term to lull the public into thinking their problems are solved. {We have the {Solution & Logistics} to cover your needs}.-------Crap. Every time I see a image of a techno wizard pictured with his laptop {I would like to smack it with a brick or cut the the cable.
I'd like to clarify a little on what I think of right to repair and lawsuits between John Deere and its customers. I don't think John Deere is probably that afraid of fighting lawsuits brought by customers, even as a class action. The profits outweigh the lawyer fees yet. I think they are afraid of federal or states enacting legislation, and then having to fight that. The lawyer fees eventually wear out the class action and customers, whereas Uncle Sam and the attorney generals of individual states, couldn't care less how long they end up with John Deere in court. Time and money don't mean much to gov't lawyers. That probably does worry Deere.
It's easy to be frivolous on someone else's dime.
Correct, That is what manufactures have done, frivolous with the customers wallet. Which they work hard to infiltrate. Equipment being built with standard features no one really needs that generate huge profits later in parts and labor sales. For instance a truck of any kind does not need power windows, door locks, five power ports, moto mirrors both sides. Sam module operated interior power or external lighting. Climate controlled cab, key fob start stop I could go on but those items just to name a few generate huge profits and are not necessary. The buyer has been lulled into thinking he needs these things. My favorite item is air disc brakes-the tests were performed by the manufactures then pandered to federal highway safety and they ok'ed it. Fixing something that's not broke. Air disc was tried in Europe in the mid 90's. Companies over there swallowed the sales pitch hook line and sinker. After 5 years it was back to drum brakes. Wabco, Bendix used many ideas from those designs and touted how great air disc is, it finally is starting to sink in here that drum brakes work just fine and less cost. But it just had to to tried over here.
According to some farmers here, when JD come out to do "repairs " and plug a laptop into a tractor or combine they can upload a heap of other information like crop data which can be sold to other parties. No wonder the tech has to make a phone call to activate the laptop. Auto steer can do the same thing. Talk about big brother.
In the US I believe some of them have real time data links that phone home the crop data as they harvest. Maybe somebody can point out a video or article about it.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-19/agriculture-data-protection/100840436 This is where I saw about data harvesting.
They can tell when the bunker alarm goes on and how fast and many times it goes on and how fast their ground speed is harvesting wheat and nail how many bushel to the acre right down to a nat's ***. I was told that 4 years ago by a deere mechanic I know here in town. No secret from what I was told.
What can be done with that kind info? Who would pay money for it?
I imagine something like the scenes near the end of the film "Trading Places" I understand it is quite the revenue stream for JD. They sell the info to whoever is buying I guess.
Banks and Futures markets would love information like this. There have been many farms sold by the banks just near harvest time, was strange how they knew but not now
We’ll apart from banks and other financial entities, grain traders, agro chemical companies, fertiliser companies, IRS/Taxation entities, by subterfuge other competing machinery companies, machinery attachment and component companies, various dealership networks, your neighbours with an interest in buying your farm, the list is endless. Some of the above will pay big dollars for precision data and JD rakes it in. And what do you you get for supplying all this valuable data? You get to pay JD to come and repair the electronics which sends the data to them.
Wilbur Ellis, McGregor, ADM, Harvest States, Monsanto.
How would that data be used? The amount of grain being produced is evident what it is sold. No one needs to pay John Deere for that info. The amount of fertilizer used is known when it is purchased. The amount of land being farmed is general knowledge. What benefit would anyone outside of the individual farmer get from the kinds of data being produced by a tractor or combine?
I think the idea is that the entities listed above would know how much is being harvested way before anybody else. Sure it is incomplete data but it is also very advanced data. If the farmer decides to sit on that grain for a while before selling, they already have an idea how much he is sitting on.
You would also know what sort of crop farmers had over the entire country, state by state county by county right down to the farm gate. If you're wanting to target your sales of whatever farmers need, you'll want to start with those who have the most cash and able to buy. This is especially important if you have a actual sales team of real people on commissions rather then shotgun mail outs.
There are billions of dollars traded on the Chicago Board of Trade. Having hard data will give an edge. Deere planters phone mother deere with the numbers of acres planted. A few years of data from big operators from several locations all the sudden you can handicap the weekly crop progress report that USDA publishes every Monday afternoon during the season. Some years it wouldn't make a difference, but very wet or very dry years it can matter. Same thing with acres covered with the field sprayer. Yield reports can also give an edge to those who can afford to buy the data. You don't even need the yield numbers, the length of time the unloading auger was on and harvest speed will give the same information. Deere claims it needs the information to improve the usability of the equipment. Its much easier to set the price point at what the farmer will pay if you can put a value on the productivity gains. Cost of production has nothing at all to do with the list price. Knowing the location of the equipment also helps john deere finance locate equipment with late payments.
I don't see anything there that would be of any actual monetary use to anyone. All that information is available for nothing or a small fee through farm organizations and such. I get some of that data from a couple of farm related magazines.
Monsanto doesn't exist anymore. Bayer bought them.
Its the timeliness of the data. Not that long ago I saw a report that managed money had a net long position in Chicago corn of about 350,000 contracts. Each contract is 5,000 bushels at a value of about $6.50, so corn alone is over $11 Billion.
I'll need some sort of proof to believe any of those explanations. What I've seen of Deere is that everything is top secret. They might use the information looking at their own production schedules for new machines, but I doubt very highly they would give or sell any of that information to anyone else and I still don't see anyway for anyone to use that info for profit.
Late last year I helped my bro in law with the barley harvest. He reconded on getting 60 bushels to the acre, a fantastic crop. In fact he got 90 bushels to the acre off 9500 acres and is storing the lot. He runs old school tractors and headers but has fitted auto steering. So someone off farm will know exactly what he has and can use it for leverage if they so desire. Remember farmers are price takers not price makers.
what's the difference? none.
That's insider trading.
Deere CEO should be ashamed of himself taking a 30 million dollar bonus on the backs of the Farmer and the American Auto Worker.
Is that still a thing?
Always has been and always will be.
It's pretty close to a monopoly now. They own the largest chunk of the chemical business concerning agriculture. The workers went on strike because of that and got most all that they were asking for in the negotiations. I do agree though that they will argue about about a few cents in raise and modest improvement in benefits and then give the lions share to the executives. They are also stealing money from the shareholders when they do that.
I think a lot of the comments are overthinking this. To play devils advocate, i will look at this from a warranty aspect. Most of my neighbors who run new or relatively new iron are their own worst enemy. They buy the biggest machine of their favourite colour but always want to 'chip' everything. Trucks, pick-up trucks, combines, tractors, sprayers. Did i miss anything? Then have reliability issues and bitch that warranty doesn't want to cover the cost of repair. As long as the machine is on warranty, it should be 'hands off' unless its regular maintenance. Many years ago i had to deal with customers who did all sorts of crap and then wanted warranty to cover the cost of what they screwed up. 99% of the farmers i know only know how to do basic repairs. That's one reason why they trade regularly. Access to software beyond certain parameters is asking for trouble from a service point of view. Hey, after the warranty is off a machine or engine, who cares if they double the hp and grenade other components. That's their problem and they can factor that cost into their bottom line
No truer words were ever said or printed ! The software access in machines under warranty should be locked in some manner. An encrypted password comes to mind, with each dealer having their own password.
And generally the bulk of those "repairs" are made with baling wire and binder twine..........
The issue of what is being asked goes to the heart of all this controversy. I asked the question a long time ago and no one has answered it even yet. Can someone troubleshoot the machine from the monitor panel? Is there a display that will inform a mechanic of what the problem is. Basically is the machine set up like a construction machine. I don't know of any manufacturer that will give access to engine performance controls. On the other hand I do know that Deere and Hitachi service manuals actually stated to not inform the customer of access to diagnostics menus. So would someone finally inform us of the facts? I've been to some farms in this state that have better shop facilities than any dealer I've worked for.
On top of that to keep warranty on Q you want the warranty work done by dealer and any up dates noted on repair forms. It keeps you out of trouble, plus makes for a better trade-in or used sale, goes for any equipment. Everything has updates and should be noted.
That's true-but in some cases it's bragging rights and a place to hide. Typical work done is welding repairs and LOF. Some are set up with break room Big Screen.
I'm guessing - which isn't what you're really looking for, sorry. I think its really limited what you can get at the monitor in the equipment. That's why deere is selling the program and the software access for the 4k and 2k a year. If it was all in the monitor- you wouldn't need that. And actually what deere is providing isn't what the right to repair guys (both farmers and independent repair shops) are wanting. I think the farmer/ independent repair guys are wanting mandated OBDII type diagnostic with access , to be able to force a regen, to pull up codes and to reset fuel air etc (full access to everything). Deere would prefer they can do nothing (remember its like a 767). I think its going to end up somewhere in the middle of those two, probably closer to what deere wants. Deere doesn't want the gov't on them if everyone is "deleting" all the emmisions controls on their equipment. EPA's smoke police and CARB really don't want anyone modifying things either. Farmers really don't care to much about the smoke police- all they want is to storm through at planting time and harvest time with no breakdowns. The dealers can't afford to have the army of trained techs that it takes to keep this stuff running, for a month in the spring and two months in the fall. So when a farmers broke down in a millions of dollars time sensitive operation- they've got to wait a week for the tech to show up. And this week might be the one dry week for the next two weeks, and instead of planting corn, they're waiting on the one tech to show up- and praying the parts they need are available. I would want to throw all the baling wire and duct tape at that problem that I could if I was farming. I can see where both sides are coming from in this one, and I have no idea where its going to end up.
Unfortunately guessing is all I've heard. I suppose I'm going to have to contact a farmer somewhere that has a current production machine to get the facts. What I see is a lot of people trying to spin the narrative to sway public opinion in their favor. All it is doing is making a lot of attorneys rich.
I've had very few things go wrong with any of the late model equipment I have, but when it does the computer throws a code. The book will give a brief description of the code. The dealer has a better description of the code. The local store of a dealer conglomerate (deere wants to mimic Cat's model, one dealer per state) I can still talk to the service manager who is a good head, not just a writer. I understand some dealerships won't tell the customer any more than the time of day. One of the possibilities deere doesn't like is many pieces of farm equipment have a top speed that is software limited. Maybe 5 years ago deere wanted about $15,000 to sell a 32 mph tractor over the 26 mph tractor. Everything is the same but the tires, and I sure didn't believe that cash was just for the upgrade. Same thing about power ratings. There may be a half dozen power ratings in a given frame size, but only a few different parts between the ratings. The $10,000 difference for the next larger tractor is pure profit for most upgrades.
Every used tractor we bought at auction, had the fuel pump played with. Grandpa bought a Deere 4440 with a cracked head. Had it repaired by local indepent shop. On run in, they found it pulling 175hp on a PTO dyno, should have been 135hp. Five years ago, he bought a Deere 8770 that smoked like a coal fire while pulling a 32ft cultivator and harrow. Took it to same shop, it pulled over 350hp on the dyno, stock setting is 300hp. Just a couple of examples. The 8770 was left as was and later traded off. Nobody like the dual stick transmission. The 4440 was turned down for longevity, but we out grew it and finally sold it off.
Claas gives farmers full access to anything if they're willing to pay. When I asked the shop about it they said it was great for business. They sell parts to farmers that don't diagnose and throw parts at it until they break the machine so much the farmers have to pay the shop to fix it right.
At the price of a Claas. A hydraulic nightmare. Not something for the average joe to tinker with, there are very few around here, with the track drive. Mainly deere, case ih.
Deere tracks the data for themselves first easier way to set a ludicrous price is to know how much available money the market has before you make the machine and price
I just looked it up. It looks like the cost for Service Advisor for customers is approx $1600 for the program, data sets (manuals) and the EDL to connect to the machine. The subscription is $195/month ($2340/yr). It includes the ability to do everything a dealer can do except program controllers. So forced regens, full diagnostics, readings, interactive tests like injector calibrations are all included. Just the reprogramming tile is left out. And we the Deere tech's can reprogram, but we never had access to any fuel mapping or anything to do with altering the software writing within the program. That comes from Deere in the software download that they control (as it should be). Actually, to reprogram a controller, every tech within every dealer group has to have their own ID#, their own password, and have to have their license to reprogram renewed every 3-4 months.
Liebherr has a similar set up with the ID in the computer. They will do it over the phone, I sit in the cab, they have me input the #'s, and we reprogram what needs done. I kind of sweat putting in the numbers, but everything gets double checked before we run it. I'm just glad liebherr will do the phone support, I'd hate to have to fly in the guys from houston or virginia or wherever the tech is. A $500 part turns into a $4,500 repair if you're flying in tech support. They would rather I put in the parts and they talk me through it on the phone. I think with the newer stuff with bluetooth or data link, they can do the ID and reprogramming remotely. But I don't have anything that new.
Yes, with Deere, we can reprogram controllers remotely (only if they have a current JDLink subscription). I often have mandatory product improvement programs that require just a software update. I do them from the comfort of the shop. There is operator involvement required, however. We will walk them through it over the phone if necessary. No codes for them to plug in because we as the licensed technician sent it.
I think it's a cool idea to be able to diagnose your equipment without dragging it to the dealership or calling in a remote service technician. All the fancy electronics make these engines way more complicated than they need to be. It's too the point where I struggle and don't even try to understand new age electronic controls. What the heck is CAN communication on a single wire? Guess I'm old school; fuel check, fuel shutoff operational check, compression check, make her spin and away she goes.
So identical to a customer version of Cat ET then.?
So the farmers are lying about their machines being dead in the field and they can't be fixed without a Deere tech coming to the site?
well, they may not be dead per se but de-rated so basically that makes the machine useless. adding to the problem is that some of the guys I know go absolutely ballistic when their combine breaks down and are not able to think constructively other than to rant at the dealer
Can the operator talk to the dealer who can use the telematics in the machine to tell the operator what is wrong?
Detroit has the same basic tool.
With Deere, it was always that the customer had to buy the software from the dealer but the dealer had to get approval from Mother Deere before selling it to a customer. And the answer was usually no. Now that the heat is on it looks like they have changed that policy. But you still have to fork over piles of money for something that should be simple.
This thread is very interesting. And like some of the older ones on here I have witnessed years of design changes and all the electronics that came with it. I do some parameter changes, but only things to do with idle time and road speed {cruise settings} and trailer abs. The rest is under warranty-Most problems seem to be engine/transmission/emission communication within those three units. It's on the dealers dime because rarely is it a simple stroke of keys that correct the issue. Usually problems won't duplicate and codes are cleared-third time is a charm-nothing more than bad connection. Which John C. could show them how to find. But these same people lack basic/skills understanding manual trouble shooting. What problem mechanically caused issues electronically. It does happen and happens a lot. I see it on the dealer work orders that come in. Three weeks ago I get a call from a local farm implement shop. They had a farmers truck that they admitted they had in the shop for 3 days trying to make the jakes work on a old small cam 350. asked if I had a idea or could come look. I looked and pointed to the oil suction hose.
From the Sullivan electronic T/S book. Mechanical problems are quick to diagnose, long to fix. Electrical problems the reverse. Spend lots of time staring at the schematics and reading the theory of operation. That is if they bother to provide the theory of operation. Then poke at the harness in various places until the problem is found. Customers don't like to see you reading books. They expect that you know it all already. Some customers have no problem paying some huge corporation thousands of dollars to replace a part that was poorly designed but out of warranty. But to pay their neighbor the same to use his brain to figure out something electronic. The have a hard time with.
https://www.equipmentworld.com/equi...o-improve-technology-after-split-from-hitachi
Keep in mind that right to repair only means making service information, software, communication adapters, and special tools available for purchase. Being that there is no true standard communication protocols (other than J1939) like OBDII in equipment, each manufacture has their own software and such. The only reason you can get cheap code readers and affordable third party service info like Mitchell’s and All Data is because of the OBDII standard and the huge demand due to the sheer number of vehicles. If you had to purchase the manufacture provided service info and software and Comm adapters it would be a similar cost as to what we see with JD and Cat and so on. The market simply isn’t big enough to justify third party solutions to the extent that the auto world sees.
All that can be negotiated at time of purchase. The common theme before congress and the courts is that Deere is not providing any means to repair a combine in the middle of harvest other than dealer employees and equipment. So who is lying?
These guy's opened business just three years ago just north of Walla Walla. Both EX JD mechanics, Their main work is JD tractors and combines. They are busier than a cat burring crap on a concreate floor. So they must have access. https://www.facebook.com/pg/HimarkCustomFab/posts/
You cant negotiate squat on service advisor and cat wants a monthly fee as well and to a small operation it gets expensive in my experience dealers dont easily volunteer info unless you are asking specific questions All this stuff is geared to bigger companies and not small outfits they either want you continually paying payments for warranty or subscriptions the goal is all about continuous revenue streams and market share and parts dont create market share
I called my local cat dealer and asked about getting setup for E.T. They wanted to know how much business I was doing. How much in parts I was buying. A list of all my customers. They wanted to know everything. I questioned them about the need for the information. And I told that they wanted to know all this to make sure I wasn't working their customers equipment. To which I replied that it was none of their business. And as far as "your customers " goes. You don't own the market or the customers. If they want me work on their equipment. Then that's between me and them and they can have anyone they choose to repair their machines. I was then told arrogantly that it's their software and they can pick and choose who can use. I reminded him again that it's not their software it is caterpillars. They don't own the market nor do they own customers. Naturally I didn't get access to the software. But that's the point of right to repair. I should be able to get the software without having to show the dealer anything other than I can pay for the access. Not everyone is allowed to get access to this stuff. And equipment owners are tired of paying dealer prices and in a lot of cases on the job training. (Parts changers ). All they want is for someone to show up in a reasonable amount of time and diagnose it accurately. And make the repair quickly. These dealers are trying to corner the market, but they don't have the man power to keep up with demand. So the equipment owners are forced to wait for weeks to get someone with a laptop to show up and get the machine out of derate. Dealerships are failing to see another revenue source by having independents out there buying more parts. Or selling a larger more complicated job for the dealership commission free. Because they don't have the tooling or experience to take on a job like that.
For the dealer to make money on parts they would have to have them in the first place Cat and deere here have the arrogance to tell me I am so fortunate they let me buy machines from them
Yes, sort of. I can perform DTC checks. I can clear DTC's and I can perform recordings of all the parameters during operation, if the machine is in running condition. I cannot view readings "live" unless another tech is there and connected. I can view through his laptop. I can connect to the machine remotely (again, only if they have JDLink) and perform a recording of all the parameters with either the DTC as the trigger for a recording or a particular parameter as the trigger to start the recording. Then when I am notified that the recording is complete I view it. If the guy has an issue with a sensor or he has a misfire I can't necessarily tell you what the failure is but I can tell which "system" is mostly likely the cause. Just like being there, a sensor code does not mean a bad sensor or a fuel rail pressure mismatch code does not mean a bad SCV. However, Deere has been pushing in advertisements that we can diagnose your machine remotely and come out with the correct parts the first trip to get you back up and running. Hmm, just never seems to work out that way.
Even Deere dealers decide what level of access a customer can have with Service Advisor. It is manuals only, or it can have full functionality.....almost. I just read the fine print and "full functionality" is Tests and Calibrations (but not all of them due to emission reasons), No Service Advisor Remote (like I mentioned above), No programming of controllers, no viewing of Solutions (Deere speak for bulletins), and no access to excavators (if it has a Deere engine you can access that engine only).
Basically it's the {good ole boy system when it comes to the dealer}.
Is there no way to troubleshoot a Deere Ag machine without a laptop? Is there no diagnostic access through a panel?
I cannot speak for AG, but most of our C&F machines have diagnostic capabilities through the monitor of some sort. Some machines offer way more information than others. But for things like engine emissions, you need the software (for now).
Not sure what's going on, just two nights ago the news had a segment on about the right to repair and the lawsuits with Deere, since deere is based in my state and in the town the news broadcast came from. They claimed the president of the United States gave an executive order to in favor of the farmers so time wasn't wasted in the courts to allow people to fix their own stuff, then they went on to say, with that executive order deere claimed it wasn't their fault none of the computer diagnostic equipment wasn't available to the public, it was the places they get the diagnostic equipment from that couldn't provide it due to the shortage of computer parts to put the laptops together in the first place. Now take that for what's it worth, since I can't keep up to date on our presidents executive orders he passes out like candy at a Halloween party and deere does nothing but pass the buck and put blame on everyone else. But right now, maybe instead of worrying about protecting Deere's rights, maybe they should protect their company somewhat and actually make parts for machines they have down all over the country and world if they plan to remain in business much longer anyhow and actually plan to sell anyone another machine of any shape size or form, when those people have enough green colored equipment waiting on parts now, costing the owners thousands if not millions in delays every day, don't think the news was quite accurate in reporting the losses associated with Deere and who's losses those were exactly, but the upside is, they do a great job of reporting the profits earned every quarter, so we at least have that as a positive, right??
John, right now, I'm not sure if the diagnostic equipment is the main concern, since most of the parts needed to fix the ag sector machines are not available anyhow according to all those locally that own them and can't get them to run for this spring and are looking for a different machine of a different color to replace the dead deere that's awaiting Santa Claus to bring the parts to fix it. I'm also pretty sure a whole lot of people are rethinking the whole concept of buying new or newer equipment, the million dollar question being asked right now is, what color and what age of equipment do I try to buy and what's the price going to be to get it so they have some equipment to run this year and actually get something done. There's also a whole lot of people who traded off for new, only to find out, there old one got sold and new never showed up and are now without one completely, that includes combines, planters, sprayers, tractors, tillage, augers, excavators, backhoes, pretty much you name if, I've heard about it, so right now, until the new one shows up, keep the old one locked in your shed and when the new one gets delivered, then let the old one go out of your possession.
The media is there to fan the flames of conflict, that is their one and only purpose. “Record Profits” and “Windfall Profits” are their favorite drums to beat but no one ever questions the “record profits” of the media, politicians, etc.
Do you have a link to that television station? I haven't been able to find that executive order anywhere either. If you have some info, I'll do the research to confirm or deny it.
Here is the executive order. The order for right to repair is in the Agriculture section. Below is the text from it: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...romoting-competition-in-the-american-economy/ Corporate consolidation even affects farmers’ ability to repair their own equipment or to use independent repair shops. Powerful equipment manufacturers—such as tractor manufacturers—use proprietary repair tools, software, and diagnostics to prevent third-parties from performing repairs. For example, when certain tractors detect a failure, they cease to operate until a dealer unlocks them. That forcers farmers to pay dealer rates for repairs that they could have made themselves, or that an independent repair shop could have done more cheaply. In the Order, the President: Encourages the FTC to limit powerful equipment manufacturers from restricting people’s ability to use independent repair shops or do DIY repairs—such as when tractor companies block farmers from repairing their own tractors.
conveniently sidestepping that much of the “locking” (and derating) is done to comply with government regulations for emissions equipment.
Wow, the news media actually somewhat got that one right then, I for one am shocked to say the least, but in the end it still means nothing because deere can't provide any of the stuff to the consumers anyhow, claiming its not their fault, but that of their suppliers, who can't get deere the laptops in the first place, wonder if any of their own technicians needed those laptops if somehow they could get them??
To simplify diagnostics -Laws like the Magnuson Moss act should have been put in place to cover this issue years ago. Because of {tie in sales} it prompted the MM act. OBDII just didn't go far enough to protect the consumer. Carrier incorporated codes in the alarm lists on their refrigerated units years back. I realize it's small potato's compared to Deere but it gives the mechanic a fighting chance.
I read the link above and will note that it is more or less just a written speech that promotes or encourages other federal departments to do certain things. There is nothing in that report that establishes new law or requires any official to do anything that they are not already doing. Here is the federal register. I've read through all of 2022 and most of 2021 and see no references to the right to repair mentioned in the link above. https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders
Magnuson Moss was made law in 1975 before anyone had any idea of what would exist in the future. The law was about written warranties and what they can and can't do. A great explanation of the act is in the this link. http://www.kleenoilusa.com/pdf/warranty/Manguson-Moss Warranty Act.pdf
I was going to post that link John but brain farted. My point about the MM law was the {tie in sales}. It runs along the same lines as Deere and right to repair.
Executive orders are just that, an order, not a law per say, what the media is doing is showing how the president is handing the problem and shows how he's getting something done to solve problems, but in the end, if he doesn't follow through and get it passed into law through congress, its a short term propaganda stunt to show authority and power only to be vetoed by the next president of the United States and changed to whatever they deem they want for their propaganda stunts is about the jest of it all. So yes the media got it right, deere knows the law and its rights, used the media to show compliance with the order, passed the buck on not being able to sell the diagnostic equipment and in the end..........nothing has changed till the courts get done with the case and they make a determination and force legal action one way or another and depending on how it goes will also determine the time frame something will be done by or can bring fourth damages and money owned to whom. As they say, time will tell.
Where do you get that Deere or anyone else has said or done anything? You haven’t even shown a link to the order. Put up a fact and I will chase it down. Hearsay isn’t admissible anywhere but social media.
The executive order referenced in the report is at the link below. It basically only establishes a commission and report time line for inputs to the commission concerning competition in the US. You have to read far down the page to find a mention of farmers being able to repair their own machines. https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...promoting-competition-in-the-american-economy The biggest issue in the order though is in looking into the prevalence of seed companies and their ability to control input costs to farmers. The main thrust of the order is the aggregation of companies by larger ones in order to dominate and control input prices to farmers and raising the costs of food production to all. The issue of right to repair is a small paragraph way down in the report that can be easily missed.
Well- I guess remote shut down of Deere equipment does have a upside. The russians/ chechins made off with 5million of equipment from a dealership, and found that they wouldn't run when they shipped them 700 miles away to chechnya. https://www.newsweek.com/video-russ...ricultural-equipment-kadyrov-chechnya-1702576
I'll bet they can get them running again, with some help from their hackers. Everything mechanical can be made to run if you put your own ECU on it, worst case scenario.
You need to start thinking the way most are thinking, doubt anyone wants those machines to use, but more like, a great source of parts that deere can't provide to anyone now...............so go source those parts where you can.........just so happens those parts are free and on a new machine that is just sitting there waiting to be taken and disassembled, not sure many will care if it runs or not, but I bet the transmission gears, cab parts, engine components, axles, hydraulic pumps and valving all work fine when they are put on another tractor, as for farm equipment, same goes there, disk openers, seed disks, vacuum pumps and shanks, shovels or frame parts along with cylinders and whatever else are all used to get many other machines back up and running and the best part is, all the parts are free, doubt even deere is willing to provide free parts to anyone half way around the world. right now they can't even provide them locally less than 100 miles from the manufacturing plants for any price.