Hi All, I’m looking to rebuild an access road to my equipment building, and looking for opinions on how to build the road. I believe there was some type of road there previous but it was a very poor attempt with putting gravel directly onto the soil, which is primarily clay. My thought is to peel off all of the topsoil, which is around 2 or 3 inches, and then put down road fabric, followed by 4 inches of #10, and then top dressed with 2 inches of #57’s. Does this sound reasonable or do I have to rethink my plan?
To clarify, this access road will see heavy equipment driven on it, up to 30 ton.
Why the cloth
To keep the gravel from sinking into the soil. Maybe with using #10’s, this isn’t needed?
I got brick building demo. Guy was pretty good about not sending trash, just nice brick. Old soft brick is best, it falls apart. newer brick hangs together in sections. It's 3' deep in some places, other places just 18". I've been asked if the drive can support a heavy truck delivery....I answer "How do you think those 88 triaxle loads of brick got here" by driving over what I just laid down.
How much would enough cloth to cover your road cost
In my case, more than the brick. and brick doesn't tear.
What type of equipment? Tracks? Tires? Tractors and towed equipment? Trucks? Trailers? Cranes? How often will the heavy stuff be on it? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Is the area well drained or soft and wet? Will you put in a good crown or cross slope and are there good ditches? What size is #10 and 57 in your area? It seems the sizes vary by locality... 6" of rock seems pretty minimal to me for regularly driving anything more than cars and grocery getter pickups on, especially if it's just clay underneath. Cloth will help keep the rock and clay separate but doesn't really boost load bearing that much in my experience. And when the clay pumps the fabric will push through 6" of rock and burst, pumping clay directly on top of the rock...
You pretty much said it. I find for cloth to be any good, you need a good lift. I like at least 2 feet of something over cloth. I get spoiled because we have a good variety of materials for road building in the area
I personally hate road fabric, I only use it as a last resort. Its just burying plastic crap in the ground that will be a nightmare for years to come. Ever try to trench through it at a later date? Or have an area that had it put down, plans change and you have to do further excavation there? Regrade a road or driveway where it was installed too shallow and starts coming through the surface? It is a disastrous mess trying to grade around it, dig through it or remove it. A base of heavy gravel/rock will do the same thing as road fabric, you just have to size the material accordingly. I'd start by stripping the topsoil/organic material, then put down 6-8" of heavy gravel, around here that'd be something like #1 to #3, which will be about the size of your fist or a little smaller. Then top with 4" of Crusher Run to lock it all together. That will be good for most farm/access/construction roads. If the ground is really soft step up to a larger base rock, around here the next size bigger than #1 would be called ESC (erosion/sediment control) and would be about grapefruit sized. For soft areas and/or extra load carrying capacity bump up the thickness of the base rock, but stick to no more than 4" Crusher Run to top it.
Yep that's what I would do. Strip, place a 4-6" layer of #24's then 3-4" of 1.5" crusher run or DGB here. That should build a helluva road if the ground is decent. Geofabric has it place in soil stabilization however I prefer geo-grid in most situations as it's stronger and due to it being stronger the depth of undercut is less. Most of the time we use fabric to keep soil from migrating into a clean stone drainage area like an underground detention system or stone backfill against a building or retainer wall. Bidding 2 quick oil change projects at the moment and both spec #57 stone against the pit walls with fabric separating the #57 stone from the remaining dirt backfill.
If you want to save on rock you could put down geo grid. Pricing that may make you want to buy more rock instead... And it's worse than fabric for digging through later on and a real mess if it comes to the top but it (usually) works quite well with 6+ inches of base rock on top...
I would be driving primarily semi truck with a lo boy, tracked equip (30T excavator). This would be on a weekly basis, if not daily depending on the season. The area is fairly well drained, but I will be adding a few catch basins to eliminate and surface water that may collect after heavy rain. The plan would be to crown the driveway, yes.
Thanks, good insights here and may help with future development and avoiding issues. Are you compacting in lifts, or just relying on the equipment running over it to compact? I have a large walk behind plate compactor I could run, but nothing large like a Demag.
Come to ND and show me how to build a road on our soils like you're describing. You will head back to Virginia with your tail tucked all the way up. 8" of gravel will not carry a single load over some of the ground we have to build on. TWO feet of 4-8" may get you started, but sometimes that isn't enough.
Make sure the road is high enough and has a crown or slope for water to run off. Build it up with clay, pack then put a later of 3 or 4" rock and pack that the best you can. Then add a final layer of 3/4" road crush to fill everything in and level the road. That's how I fixed a low spot that was always under water with ruts in the spring. I added hydrated lime to the clay but I'm sure if it helped or not. Getting it so water wouldn't form puddles is the most important. Wish I would have had ESP and known I wouldn't be keeping the property. Could have saved the $2000 or so I spent fixing the driveway.
Ask the surrounding area, 30-40 miles in every direction, what contractor they would get to build a road in a tough spot. If there is more than one, figure out who the top choice is. If he'll tell you how he would build your road, follow his directions exactly. If he won't tell you, hire him to build it.
If I put fill dirt down I compact with a sheepsfoot roller behind the dozer in lifts, if it's virgin ground I just put the rock down (after the topsoil is removed.) You aren't going to get any meaningful compaction on clean rock, if you want to run a smooth roller over the finished driveway (to pack the crusher run) you can, it will help shed the water but the same thing will be accomplished with vehicle traffic. One big consideration is make the road wide enough so you don't have to drive in the same two tracks every time, 16' wide or more is preferable if your space and budget allow. This will greatly extend the amount of time between touch up grading and adding more gravel.
I have no experience building roads in ND and have never claimed to. Furthermore, this discussion is about building a road in Ohio, on clay, which is similar conditions to what we have here. I guess you didn't read that last sentence either: In some extremely soft areas I have pushed in 2' of class 2 rip rap, then made a 'mat' of #1+crusher run on top of that. One such was an entry to a property I did for one of my customers a few years ago. We've taken many tandem and tri-axle loads across since then with no signs of failure. My recommendations to the OP still stand.
I'll also add this, I know exactly the situation the OP is working with because I get a lot of calls to fix 'roads' that home builders/GC's/DIYers have put in. It usually consists of ~4" of clean #57 dumped directly on the ground or on top of road fabric (which doesn't make it any better). No thought is given to removing topsoil/organic matter, drainage, proper rock size, etc. The #57 gravel if it was put directly on the ground turns into a mush, if it was put on road fabric it's too loose and slides around and gets spun out. Regardless of the materials available, you need a good base of heavy rock topped with something that will pack. The goal is a cohesive mat of rock that will support the load, drain properly and not get pushed around and spun out by tires.
Well it's a good thing that OP is in Ohio and not ND.
And this is why without actually being there, none of us have a clue what might actually be the best fix. We don't know the OP's site at all, it could be next to a swamp or on top of a hill. Chances are, if he's coming on an internet forum to get advice on building a driveway, it might be a tough site. Your recommendation might work perfectly, or not at all. I've had sites that required 6 feet of excavation, fabric, 3/4" minus rock with drain tile on top of that, and praying to the dirt gods that we could get proper compaction on the second layer of fill over all that. Truth is, the only real answer to the OP's question is get a reputable local guy to tell him what to do, and follow his advice to a T. Conversations like this are why I try not to give opinions on road building on this forum. Sorry if I was too blunt.
What are the grapefruit sized?
5” minus or Rip Rap, depends on where you live, OR go to the grocery store and look at a grapefruit. LOL!
when i was in biz, my shop was adjoining a river, sandy/clay soils. static water table was down 6 feet. even after dozing all the top soil back, running front end loader over it, it would ribbon out in front of the tires with an unloaded bucket. got the excavator in there, took 2' out, put down fabric...placed nice clay from another jobsite on top of that, rolled it in the front end loader. 8 inches of class 5 on top of that. was like a rock, didn't budge a bit. fabric has it's places, my shop area was definitely one of them.
My neighbor is building a new road. It’s fascinating to watch. They move the topsoil, mine the gravel underneath, build the road and put the top soil in the trenches they mined the gravel from. Then, it’s compacted. Not a single yard of material is hauled to the site. The topsoil is chunky because it’s still frozen. It froze down down about 10’ this year.
If RG was still around......He would probably make a giant train all connected together to do it all in one pass. Conveyors swung out on each side to windrow the topsoil, screeners classifying, putting the proper sized gravel in the proper places, etc. All powered with 14 screaming Deetroits......
That gravel is just hiding under the topsoil, ready to use?
They are breeding over the winter, under cover of snow......
Pretty much. I’m trying to remember what the official soil designation is called, but this entire MatSu Valley is a giant gravel pit. Well, there is plenty of muskeg and a few ice lenses, the Matanuska River bottom land has some incredible farmable topsoil.
Yeah, if you were only looking to grow radishes or weeds lol. Kinda hard to farm with only about 40 days in the growing season lolol.
40 days of 24 hour light is equivalent to 80 days of 12 hour light.
But, Dale’s 2,000 lbs pumpkins. This is the land of giant vegetables. Pumpkin is a fruit, maybe. IDK ? I’m well known in the local ladies gardening club for the girth of my zucchini.