For all those in the road maintenance business... Why does my county grade my road just before it rains. My road is by far one of the worst in the county. For all of spring and fall, it just mud. It suffers from a high water table, flat terrain, and very poor drainage. In the summer when it gets dry it's not bad, but potholes eventually develop that slow your speed. But slow and dry isn't bad because at least you can wash your car and keep it clean for the 1/2 kilometer it takes to get to pavement. Every time there is rain in the forecast the grader comes by and cuts it deep. He pulls up 5, even 6 inches of a mud/dirt/gravel mix, then levels it out. Then the rain turns it into slope. I don't get it. I've seen it so bad that my mail lady in a 4x4 jimmy got stuck at my mailbox. He went by yesterday and ruined an otherwise acceptable road. It was frozen, which is when the road is at its best. This morning it's raining and he is out there right now. Can someone explain the reasoning behind all this? Ken
Uhhmmmmm, Job security, perhaps? The more screwed up it is, the more "work" he has to do to it. Maybe take him a box of doughnuts, and ask him politely to try to work it at a better time. County road guys get bitched at by everyone--be nice to him, thank him when he does it right, and he will take care of you.
Proper moisture content aids in proper compaction, less segragation of material, a more uniform final product, AND less dust! Notice I said proper, maybe his idea of proper differs from everyone else's idea of proper. A lot of townships around here try to maintain there roads in a LIGHT rain, different strokes for different folks I guess.
If it was going to turn cold then maybe he was grading it up so that it would freeze shortly after. I have done that before. As far as making heavy cuts on a road as you describe just before a heavy rain? I have no clue..lol
Long story short, there isn't a reason to say he must do it before rain. I guess that's what i wanted to know. I thought maybe there was some reason that the job is best done or must be done before rain. I would prefer he did it when the forecast was dry. The limestone dust mud gets into every nook on a vehicle. Its bad enough that the tires get tore up. Brake pads, rotors, shocks, brake and fuel lines, exhaust practically dissolve on the vehicle. Its just a shame to drive down those roads. I have a few vehicles and we all keep old cars around for this kind of weather. Where you really get screwed is not when you leave home, but when you come home in the rain. Then you can't plan around it.
Why don't you stop and ask him someday? I've worked for many different supervisors over the years and sometimes they would get me to do senseless things. Maybe this grader dude has a boss that fits this description or maybe the supervisor is taking heat from his superiors to get the roads graded. Give you a small example...boss took me out to a place that he wanted me to ditch...it was a black bog. Told him that it would be impossible for me to ditch that..he said just do it...I did...went out of sight...lol. Just doing what I was told to do. Just stop and ask him...probably be more than happy to explain it to you.
Yep
Ken, perhaps the operator is working on the squeaky wheel theory, the more he ***Ks with your road, the more you will complain and the county will put good gravel on your road, you win, better road, and the operator wins, better road to work with. Just a theory, not one that l believe in though::beatsme
Hi Michael That was the way things were done in councils up here in QLD prior to council amalgamations in 2008. Poor buggers don't have the funds to do basic maintence now!!!!! The worst of it all, where I am at is that the mines are paying up to $60.00 or more per hour for a grader opertator and councils can only afford to pay peanuts!!!! I don't know what the solution is? Bruce
So i guess the question i should have asked is when is the right time to do road maintenance? Is there a "best practices" for grading roads? If i knew a little more about it, I would talk to the guy. It wouldn't be hard to rally the neighbors either.
Hi watglen There are a lot of widely published "best practice" statements for road maintenance, but your county may have other issues to deal with...spending the budget prior to the next financial year? In Australia...and not trying to be general in my reply...we have a wet time and a dry time (South Australians have dry all the time and Victorians have four seasons in one day). To maintain a road, most of the grading is done just after the wet????? regards bruce
I am a county grader operator and I understand the squeaky wheel theory ,but try to stay ahead of it by having a rotation system. That said somebody's road is going to get rained on right after I blade them. Bosses want blades running everyday possible there can be 100% chance of rain they send you out. I know I am wasting fuel and time and making people think I stupid bladeing in the rain, but I do as I am told. Nobody knows the roads better than the operator that blades them. I like the do-nut suggestion though.
I think you nailed it down pretty good.
Havent received doughnuts yet, but I have one resident that gives me a can of pop once every year..hhmmmmm, now that I mention it, I think he missed in 2011, gonna have to jump him about that. I have also received steaks for prompt snow removal. Some of the 'fringe' benefits of this job are not forgotten!
I don't know why he would blade before it rains. I try to blade after it rains. The moisture helps take out washboards and helps it pack better. If you try to blade a road when it's really dry, the washboards will just get worse since the dry gravel will just pound right out of the existing washboards. There are lots of times the townships will call during the absolute worst blading conditions but they want to be done so they get done. I have never received anything from land owners! I get a regular a** chewing from one farmer though, about every other time that I go out, and he's the only one who has ever complained. Usually i just get a thumbs up, or nice job.
I have another explanation. The grader moving down the road creates a vortex that goes up in the atmosphere and causes it to rain the following day after you blade a road. Seriously if we waited until there was no rain in the forecast sometimes we would never get any grading done, just have to take the chance.
There are some very good documents that may help your county become better at maintaining the roads. Caterpillar has published a MG Application Guide and Governmental Applications video that shows best practices. Have the county ask the local Cat dealer for a copy of these materials - even if they dont own Cat graders the dealer should provide them and the techniques are industry standards. If needed, I can forward these documents directly to you....large files so they would need to be done outside this forum.
He doesnt like you
I'm with D&G, I like to blade after a rain as it's drying. Gives me proper moisture content to pack into holes. Also cuts easier so I'm not grinding off cutter edges. But I think this is geographic in nature. I've got 50 miles of crushed limestone roads and they aren't all ready to blade at the same time. I've been caught by a "chance" rain as I'm blading and it's not pretty. Might as well figure on coming back and fixing it after it dries a little.
Hi Guest, As Grader4me said you are spot on, we used to have 4 graders doing our maintenance and road reconstruction, they had designated areas to work in and kept on top of their work. After amalgamation and extreme budget restraints we now have 2 graders to cover 750 kms of gravel roads, some are back tracks though, and 900kms of shoulder maintenance to do on a total of 450kms of bitumen roads. We have gone from pro-active to re-active practices :Banghead::crazy. Because our blades are down all day, every day, except if its already raining, someone's road that we grade will get wet and go messy, what does help is modern technology with weather radar on computer and mobile phone, that guides me to make the decision to find a good quality crushed rock road to grade, they arn't affected by the rain so much, the politics of our council is frustrating but l would'nt trade my job for anything, overall working conditions a very good :my2c
Hi Micheal James, We had a Road Administrator last year that moved operators around to different areas, and went to re-active maintenance. If a road had a certain number of complaints you would be sent out to blade it whether you were familiar with it or not, needless to say several shallow culverts were hit. We got further and further behind more and more roads were getting complaints. We now have an Engineer as boss he put us back in designated areas and gave us control over when and where we blade. As you know no two operators blade the same. One brags on his "Flat Bladeing" style now I am having to put the crown back in my roads. I try to get over my roads every 3 weeks but, some when 3 months under re-active maintenance. I agree with D&G and ovrszd proper moisture makes for a better job. I have asked several times for county I-phone with internet but they just laughed. I do use my personal I-phone to keep track of the weather, moving radar so I don't caught with to much windrow in middle of road.
LOL....now thats something to brag about...gives a real operator something to swear about when going behind them to crown the road..Of course, if you don't know how to crown a road then that boast sounds pretty good....lol
What are you guys talking about? You know as well as I do that everyone in a township, county, or state are better grader operator's than the man sitting in the operators station. and if you don't believe them just ask them. Grampa.
I work for a Rural Municipality (RM) in Canada. Most of our ratepayers are experts also. Except when you ask them then to show us how it is done then they run away. There are a few that will give you praise and call you in for coffee but most of them will rather chew a person out then praise, it must make them feel important. I blade on a rotation basis and if it rains right after I pass by well to bad and I will be there again when your turn comes up in about 2 weeks or more.
Sounds like you've been chewed out a few times alright...lol. Part of the job when trying to please the public..sucks..I know...been there.
That's the other thing I forgot to mention. It cuts so much nicer, and it saves a lot on cutting edges. I blade 3 townships, about 70 miles total.
We're looking after 200 km of pavement and 240km of gravel with 2 graders. We'd LIKE to work just after a rain, but there's too much road and too little "ideal" time..... These guys are right, talk nice to the operator.... BTW, Ontario had record rainfall for THE YEAR back in october, never mind november and december! We're all fighting teh budget battle too. I bet the operator knows that the road needs ditches and gravel, the money's just not there.
I'm very blessed. My taxpayers rarely complain. If they talk to me about a road it's usually to let me know of a potential problem. I try to cruise my roads occassionaly to keep up with all that. My township board believes the taxpayers own the grader and I agree. I've worked on a lot of private driveways and often smooth roadbanks for new fences. It's good karma.
Ahhhhh how did they know it was going to rain ?
Great discussion and great ideas guys, Thanks for the tips. Ken
Where I live there seems to be a schedule for grading the road that's determined by throwing a dart at a calendar. Sometimes you see the grader twice in 3 days, then you don't see it for months except sitting in the municipal yard not doing a darn thing... One winter the road was particularily bad, massive potholes in the road so bad that vehicles were getting damaged. When I called the district office they told me they were short staffed and couldn't get anybody out there to grade the road for some time. So I told the lady that I have a grader and I would grade the road myself and send them the bill. "Oh we can't do that sir!" "Why not? You said you were short staffed and I'm going to help you out here!" "Uhhhhhh, well, you see, ummmm, errr, well, geeez, I don't, well, ummmm..." I told her I'd do it tomorrow and hung up the phone. Miraculously the very next day they found some staff as the grader was out there first thing in the morning!
I work for a District and live in a rural neighborhood that consists of about 10,000 acres and 300 miles of roads. About 1,500 residents live here with about 10% of them can't help themselves from spinning out at every intersection. So needless to say, a lot of grading goes on. We get calls from residents who want their road graded and so I'll drive out there and start to grade the road and another resident will come out and ask me, why in the hell are you grading my road! Now a little info... the operator we had grading roads before me, couldn't get rid of a grass ball to save his life. What I'm trying to say is, we have scheduled roads that have to get done rain or shine, because I don't know how long it will be until I can make it back in that area. Sometimes a supervisor will just drive by a road and say go grade that road if it's really bad! I grade dirt roads as long as there is moisture in the dirt, otherwise I'll just push up a windrow and leave it until we get some rain. Then I will spread it back across the road. There are many factors that come into play to why your road is getting graded. The easiest way is to just stand out by your driveway, give him a wave and ask him. I was always asked, but now I just get smiles and waves and I go grading by.
Water and roads haha. fine line. and it takes a fine mind to know what is to much and what is to little. ( with which material ) every job is different. But to put it in a nut shell the best time to grade a road is when it's just had a nice drop of rain. after all after that it's just going to dry out again . Get a nice mixture mix it up, and bang it down. If your doing a lot of mile's as any good operator would ( should ) tell you get in there while the going is good. long time wating for a water cart some times. Oh and it's very blQQdy hard to get a good water cart ( I suppose you could say ) Operator. :beatsme
I'll agree a light rain is ideal for base rock roads. But dirt roads should be done after the rain while still retaining the moisture
Yep!
We are actually a special District that all we do is maintain the roads, ditches and canals. Thankfully we also have our own water truck at the shop.
A bit to much water here. Same job from a higher point after 3 inches of rain.
are you building a canal here? It sure looks like it hahaha.