I have a Mitsubishi MS070 and I am forced to rewire the whole machine because of old wiring that got too hot and melted. Some wires are just so old, the insulation is falling off. I have burnt steaks showing through the electrical tape, in the harness, all the way back to the battery relay and arcing on the relay. No (new) evidence of rodents, but they ate all the poison I left for them last year. You can bet I have more poison there now! She has been sitting by the barn now since the first of May while I had the cylinders repacked. I have a new battery relay, starter switch. starter relay, and safety relay shipping in from CAT sometime later in the week. I know that is a lot of parts to replace blindly, but I would rather have them and not need them, then need them and have to wait another week to get them shipped in. My question, what does a safety relay do? They are double the price of the other relays. My machine has wobble sticks, so no safety interlocks to speak of. One other question. What is a good way to test relays? hugs, Brandi
Not sure on your machine, but they usually lock the hydraulic system until specific parameters are met (seat switch for operator being present, park brake, etc.....). Im also not sure what type of relay you are wanting to test so a picture of it would be helpful. Most I see are the 4-5 spaded box relays.
Some/most "safety" relays will not send power to the starter.. until the circuit is completed.. Sit down in the seat> circuit completed.. stand-up> circuit broken. Same w/ seat belt/lap bar.. Door being open.. Parking brake not on.. Not in Neutral..{in gear} The list goes on.. AND.. that's just for STARTING.!! There are "running" safety switches/ relays/sensors that need to run in preset parameters, overheat shut-downs, oil pressure shut downs, loose timing belt shut downs{deutz} ALL/MOST can be by-passed in an emergency, if you know what your doing tho.. 99% of them send or open a circuit to the injection pump shut off solenoid.. so, running a "hot wire" to the solenoid will get you out of a jam.. Same w/ the "starting" circuit.. if no juice is present due to a safety switch gone bad.. add juice to the starter.. The PROBLEM w/ THAT advise is>> you don't know what circuit IS OPEN.. IF its the neutral safety switch & its IN GEAR & you add power.. it'll run your dumb azz over..
If you have burnt up wires all the way back to the relay I would be suspicious of a bad or Broken Ground. I would start at the battery and work my way around checking frame ground from the battery checking all your isolated grounds for your harness also check your master disconnect switch make sure your connections are clean and tight it sounds to me and looks by the description that you have an insufficient ground
If Mitsubishi was anything like Hitachi the safety relay is there to protect the alternator, it keeps the battery relay energized until the alternator stops charging (engine stops turning) The field windings will go up in smoke if you disconnected the battery relay while the alternator is producing power (nowhere for the angry pixies to go) Your engine most likely has a fuel cutoff cable, or does it shut down with the key? Atleast the machine has a basic electrical system, with a proper wiring diagram you'll be able to rewire the entire machine without too much grief. Most Japanese wire used a soy based insulation, which gets very brittle when old and exposed to heat, it's also a flavor favorite for them pesky rodents!!
Thanks for the replies guys. My machine is early to mid 1980s. Only wires to the engine are to the alternator, the oil pressure transmitter, and the water temperature transmitter. Only other wires coming out of the house go to boom lights and a light on the fuel tank and the horn. Also to the batteries and that relay. That is all. No hyd. interlocks in the starting circuit. My controls move everything as soon as there is hyd. pressure from the pump. Engine shutoff is a pull cable. The worst burnt wire (fell apart when I touched it) was the going to the battery relay. hugs, Brandi
Yep, most of the wires from the safety relay go to the alternator. Haven't removed the alternator to have it checked out, but I plan on removing it. Problem is, the closest wiring diagram I have is from a CAT E70B, which is pretty dang close. The wiring has been "modified" before with new wires and old wires left in the harness and diked off. Soy based wiring insulation explains a lot. Lots of brittle wire that are green on the exposed copper. Majority of the wiring harness is wrapped in electrican's tape. hugs, Brandi
When I found out all my relays were available at CAT, I decided to just replace them all at once, or shotgun them. hugs, Brandi
I have about 1-2 days more work on the rewiring. After pulling the cover off of the battery relay, I realize it is what caused the wire meltdown. The insides of the relay are toast. On a good note, the alternator checks out fine. hugs, Brandi
I have been using lots of split conduit and am pleased with the results so far. All the wires running inside the pedistal from switch to relay and relay to relay are way too long. I am cutting about 2-3 feet off of each wire to tidy it all up. I removed the non working heater under the seat and plan on installing it's fan to blow around the upper house air. I have replaced the safety relay (CAT calls it a regulator) and the heater relay. I am not sure if the manifold heater works, but wanted to have all the wires right as that circuit bounces from relay to relay and starter switch. I'm just not that electrical savvy to make major wiring changes. The only wiring change I have made is to move the hot wire for boom lighting from the battery terminal to the accessory terminal on the starter switch. I don't want vandals running down the battery by leaving the lights on. hugs, Brandi
Just a thought. If your boom lights were battery hot, perhaps place a fuse and relay in the circuit. Have the relay powered off the accessory post. That way your switch is protected from a dead short. Just a thought.
Funwithfuel, The light "hot"wire has an inline flat fuse in it already. You can see it's red case sticking out of the fuse panel in the photo above. It had it's own hot wire from the battery, as the last 3 fuse positions had no hot jumper wires, like the other fuse positions. Those other fuse positions are powered off of the starter switch accessory position. The wiring diagram shows all fuses powered off of the accessory position. That is why I put the light circuit back there. The only rusty screws I have encountered is some of the fuse terminal screws. Removing one, I broke it. But there are 4 or 5 fuse positions not used. hugs, Brandi
Cool, I would hate to see all the hard work go to waste over a simple oversight.
Hard work, nay. Work that takes a lot of focus...............yes! After 3 weekends of working on this wiring, I just remembered I have some 2x magnifying safety glasses. Those are real handy for putting all those little stripped wires into the splices! hugs, Brandi
I got out early this morning, before the rain, and finished the wiring and replacing the starter relay and starter switch. Here is what it looks like.......... hugs, Brandi
Brandi...Nice job...looks 100% better than the previous mess!! I love my 2x safety glasses...wear'em for all my close work!!
Thanks Stump Wally. Now I just gotta get up enough nerve to hook the batteries up and turn the key. hugs, Brandi
Nice work Brandi. I laughed at the "hook up the batteries" Have been there and done that. Did a rewire on a machine one time and my apprentice ran a wire from the hot post on the starter right to ground. It was pretty exciting when we turned the night switch on. Big cloud of smelly smoke. We just called it a learning experience and continued on. The poor guys was sooooo embarrassed. How we learn.
Nice, nice and tidy. The split loom really cleaned up a lot. Don't know how dry it is in there. You may wanna hang the relay on the far right with the terminals down. The housing can trap water/ moisture the way it is. Other than that, looks great.
Thanks! Yeah, it's like back in school, you thought you aced a test and got an F. That real sinking feeling. hugs, Brandi
Thanks! That's the way the relay was installed before. I do have a new boot I forgot to put on. I'll add that to my "To Do" list before hooking the batteries up. hugs, Brandi
I keep a zillion different lengths of zip ties on my truck for just this kind of electrical mess. Nothing sets off my OCD worse than the mess you started with. The hair on the back of my neck stood up and I started sweating!
Vetech63, I was doing more than sweating when that pedestal started smoking! hugs, Brandi
With a very shaking hand, I hooked up the battery. No charge light. So far so good. I turned the key and she fired right up. No smoking. A quick check with the mutli meter on the batteries showed correct voltage, a little over 24 volts. I turned on the lights and they came on, but only one. They have always been intermittent, so I'm gonna change them out to LED. I have to troubleshoot the thumb. I'm thinking the connector on the diverter valve is wacky again. I have touched the hot side before with the test light and the thumb started working. Mickey Mouse DIN connectors. I have to install the seat and button up the underside house panels and button up the pedestal and all is done. Thanks for Y'alls assistance. Photos show the burnt/corroded battery relay and the safety relay. After opening that safety relay, I was glad I replaced all relays and the starter switch! hugs, Brandi
After I drove the CAT into the barn for the coming rain, I installed the fire bottle I was suppose to install on my tractor years ago. hugs, Brandi
Hi Brandi, Hope you get more than 24V as should be up over 28V if it is charging correctly. The relay you are calling safety relay looks like a very old school voltage regulator for your alternator. Cheers
007, On my old Radio Shack multi meter, set on 30v DC, with it's bend needle, it goes over 24, so I am guessing around 28. I will try again today with my small digital meter (cheap Harbor Freight) I keep in my desk drawer. I am guessing between 28 and 30 volts. The safety relay (Japanese term) came in a CAT box labeled regulator. Like GregsHD stated in post #5, it protects the alternator. So I am leaning with your term, voltage regulator. hugs, Brandi
I checked with a digital mutlimeter the other day.............27.7 volts. That was right after startup. hugs, Brandi
That voltage only indicates it is charging, and probably fine. To draw any conclusions you need to know the state of charge of the battery's at the time, engine rpms, load on the alternator and so on. Most modern machines the charge voltage is fixed and not adjustable but you have the ability to adjust your voltage at that regulator. If you are using the older style flooded lead acid battery's they are fairly forgiving regarding charging but if you are using Calcium or AGM you should make an effort to adjust precisely. I could walk you through how to adjust if your interested. Cheers
007, Thanks, but I will fly it and watch it. hugs, Brandi
You are fine. . . The -fully charged battery static condition- will be 25.2 volt. Anything above 26.8 volt will 'normally' indicate a charge being applied to the battery. The higher the voltage the higher rate (amps) of the 'charge'.
Thanks CatKC! hugs, Brandi
We are looking at a 1988 E70 #3CG. I found the date info on http://www.ironrecord.com/
I would find that helpful if I had a serial number, but my machine started life as a Mitsubishi. She's earning her keep now. hugs, Brandi
Good, she's keeping up her end! The one we're looking at is down there close to you. In Stowell? TX. I've seen on here you had a little trouble on getting parts. Getting any better on that end?
Would this be any help? If the serial plate is gone, it might be stamped into the metal underneath where the plate was. Should be in the format 3CG09978 for those years...
Derp, *facepalm* I see you already talked with Nige about this....
Stowell would be about 2-2.5 hours away from me. Parts that are replaced often are no problem from CAT.. Stuff like a dipstick for the engine are not available from CAT. I know another E70 owner over in Shepard, Texas that knows where to get the starter and waterpump overhauled. He also had his radiator rebuilt. So if CAT doesn't have it, there are vendors out there can help you out. My local hyd. shop did change the packings in the bucket and stick cylinders from 5 piece to 3 piece packings on the ram. Things like that just slow the repair process down. But sometimes you have to think outside the box....................or what CAT tells you. CAT had all the packings for the boom cylinder, but were like $467 for the kit. My bucket and stick cylinders cost me $200 and $250 to rebuild. Good luck hunting for one. They are tough machines that are big enough to take on anything (within reason) and still small enough to haul on a gooseneck. hugs, Brandi
Yep, was just gonna type that here. I did what he said and stripped the paint under where the old data plate was, only to find nothing. Please remember my machine started life as a Mitsubishi. My very helpful and friendly CAT parts lady tried all the serial number prefixes and everything was too different. There are about 3 carcasses of E70s and E70Bs over in Coldspring, Texas in a heavy equipment salvage yard. None had wobble stick controls. Is your machine joysticks or wobble stick controls? hugs, Brandi
I don't know yet. Haven't been down there to look at it. I seen those carcasses, one has the blade I'd put on it if we did buy this machine.
I read somewhere that the machines with the blade have drive motors that are heavier duty and not to interchange them. So that and the fact you need another set of ports on the swivel joint make it a hard job to add a blade. Just add a hyd. thumb and keep an I beam handy for spreading dirt. hugs, Brandi
While loading on the trailer to go home, the main hose from the pump to the valve bank blew and I lost hyd. pressure. I was just about on the trailer where I chain it down, when I saw ground inside my right track. Next thing I knew, I was stepping out the slideup windshield opening on the side of the ditch. I tried to swing the boom around to stop my fall, but with low pressure there also, it just acted as an anchor. I went home, got the Mahindra and kept thinking something would need to pull from the tow eye, while I lifted the boom with the FEL on the Mahindra. A dumptruck stopped by and said he could pull it after he got fuel. By then I had clearied trees for the Mahindra to position to lift the boom. I lifted the boom two feet by myself, looked at my friend and said,,,,,,,,"I'm gonna try it now". The Mahindra lifted (flipped?) the CAT back upright all by herself! While lifting, I busted (sheared the bolt) the mount for the right boom light guard and tweaked the thumb and stick lines. The sight glass tube on the fuel tank came off, dumping 30 gallons of diesel while on it's side and the tank was tweaked on it's mounts. The hyd. tank didn't budge! I was afraid it had caved in the radiator louvers into the radiator, but those were fine also. The light guard on the fuel tank is loose. I must have fell on the right sliding window, as the forward one was half out of the track. I tried to pop it back into the track with a 3 inch round cedar post, but it wasn't plexiglass like I thought. Yep, I shattered the glass into thousands of little shards. The next weekend I replaced both pump hoses and took out 6 more trees before the stick cylinder hose blew. It showered the cab and my feet with fluid. Seems I missed the tweaked hard line, when checking for damage, which pulled the hose too tight with the stick fully retracted. I changed that line Friday, between rain storms and with my seatbelt on, loaded her up and brought her home. My home made thumb hard lines were bent when the Mahindra's loader bucket didn't raise as fast as the uprighting CAT. hugs, Brandi
I also gouged the side of the boom in front of the light mount. It is about a 10th of an inch deep. Should I blend out the gouge and weld a bead over it, or just blend it out, or just ignore it? hugs, Brandi
Holy smokes! Glad you're OK!!
Thanks GregsHD! I'll be using my seatbelt for unloading and loading from now on. hugs, Brandi