So I own an Excavation biz & added a Tree service to compliment that this past spring and found that they compliment each other well. Now my excavation biz is at the point where to expand I need to get a larger excavator etc. the truck and trailer will need upgraded as well, but the equipment that I'm using now is in nice shape, and is fine. Tree side is older functional equipment and more in need of updates than excavating, but definatly still usable and functional, and not nickle and diming me. Also updating it will not add any significant capability or cost me enough... So I'm looking at adding a crane... Something that will compliment the tree service, but yet be usable to others for lifting work. For tree work, 100' is min, 120' ok, and 150' good. Weight wise, if it can handle 4k pounds at a 45 degree boom angle it will be more than enough, 2,000# at 45 degree is minimal, but acceptable for the tree stuff. Do to my area, having a crane thats easy to transport is manditory, I want to be able to cover a 50 mile radius efectively. We also have hills, almost all the dumptrucks are 400hp+ @ 73,280# So in y'alls opinions what should I be lookin at? Also I want a cab that swings with the crane, and is enclosed, no boom trucks allowed...
Before I say anything I must preface my thoughts with the fact that I have been separated from the crane biz for many years now so my thoughts may be outdated. With that said, I would in no way discourage someone from expanding their business, after all, I have no idea what your financial conditions are, nor do I have a clue what your capabilities are. If you have the financial resources and are capable of operating a crane, it would expand your tree cutting capabilities. Now to the crane. A hydro crane that gives you the 100 ft boom range is likely going to be in the 30 to 60 ton range. Weight will be in the 60 to 80K range and rear tandems may be overweight requiring permit. And you better call your insurance company and get an idea of what the insurance for the rig is going to require and what it will cost you per year. If you're looking for 150 ft boom range, you could find yourself looking at oversize carrier machine and substantially more money to purchase machine. Then there's the operator, do you have someone with experience with cranes? It's not a skill that's impossible for a competent person to learn, but a crane has an unforgiving learning curve, just one mistake can be deadly and cause extensive property damage quicker than you can blink an eye and react to it, and cutting a load loose to be snatched by a crane is a particularly crafty thing to do and tree limbs/trunks fall into this category.
With trees height is more important than capacity, and I'm happy to get the height I need with a jib. Don't really want to get ot an oversize situation. Looking at load charts for new stuff, 30 ton is sufficient. The large / long boom trucks are big enough, I just would prefer a crane. Operator wise, cranes & graders are the only thing that I haven't had any significant amout of time with. As well my business partner is able to get his license easily. As well my tree climber is experienced with cranes and should be a big asset there. I also have a 350 acre farm with lots of trees on it for practice...
I understand your desire for a deck mounted crane with cab, but before you completely discount a boom truck, consider it would provide you a bed to haul very large logs or a man basket, something a carrier hydro crane would not be able to do. Just a thought.
in pa a crane can be licensed as "special mobile equipment" for $36 per year w/ no anual inspection. Instead of 8', I can go to 9'2" during daylight. And I believe that I can cross state lines w/o needing apportioned plates - checking that. Also if it doesn't need an anual inspection, then dot don't bother me either... Boom trucks would need to be licensed at the apropriate weight class, and need aportioned plates for out of state work, and are subject to semi anual inspection and dot. If I never carried anything on the boom truck i might get that a sme plate, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, dot might fight for authority over it... As far as moving materials go, I have a f-350, a f-800 dump, a c-7000 bucket / chip dump & 14, 16, & 25k trailers
I cringe any time I see a crane being used for tree service. You tube is full of video of what happens when tree work goes bad. I understand they are a necessity and I feel you would be better off using a rental crane and operator.
I probably will not use it for more than 5 tree jobs per year. Its an issue where the excavation and tree service are generating enough that if I don't spend some $$, I get to give it to uncle Sam. My excavating equipment is running fine & there is alot more competition at the next size up. Tree equipment is behaving well. The crane is simply an expansion, with a side benefit of helping occasionally with trees. Hopefully I set more basements with it than I do tree work.
Man if you want to do tree work with a crane then stay away from jibs, theres plenty of jibs that made there way to the scrap yard after a gust of wind decided to take the whole works over. Do you have any Certified arborists on staff?
I've done tree work with both boom trucks and cranes. I agree it's probably one of the more dangerous things to do. It can be done, just got to be careful. No matter if I have a 25 ton boom truck or a 60 ton crane, I give the final OK on whether or not the guy makes the cut. Just don't try and get too much at one time. KEEP it light. An extra cut or two won't hurt anyone. Actually, ANYTIME you latch onto something to bring it down versus putting it up, it's dangerous. You never know how much it's actually going to weigh. Once they cut it loose, it's your's whether you want it or not.
Yes, my climber is a cert. arborist. Wind and cranes, I know it can be a large factor with the really big latice units but what about the small hydraulic units like I'm talking about? Not saying I wannna go operating it in a hurricane but what about 25 mph gusts?
Average crane work jibs are ok as long as you are using them for height not radius, but tree work is a whole nother game, like Impact said once its cut your married to it, and unless its a pick of pure trunk wood your basically holding a great big sail up there and jibs cannot handle that kind of side loading, lots of guys get away with it but the way I see it if you want 120' of boom buy 120' of boom. Don't be one of those guys who didn't get away with it.
from my experience the pa dot will still be checkin on you with a sme plate ..... and you are up near some of the big gas wells and those seem to be getting alot of attention from dot. just a heads up
On what standards can the dot check me if the unit does not have to undergo any anual inspection, and isnt a commercial motor vehicle? Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to get away with runnin a p.o.s. If the dot was only about saftey, I wouldn't have a single problem with them... Now if I don't have to run log books, have d.o.t. and alphabet soup numbers, or aportioned tags thats that much more that I can't be ticketed for, if they do have the authority. I'd even question that he had authority over that vehicle since it isn't a commercial motor vehicle So what does a crane inspection entail?
Buy ya a 100K-150K crane. Run it a while and you'll still be able to sell it for a large % of your money. I bought a 50 ton AT Grove, ran it 2-1/2 years, put it up for sale, and got my money back within 3 weeks. I sunk $140K into a 25 ton boom truck 10 years ago, and I doubt it'd bring.... WAIT....I know exactly what you need. I have a 25 ton boom truck for sale. 92' of boom, and a 46' jib.
if it goes down the road then it has to pass a regular dot check, ie brakes, lights, leaks, we run log books in all our cranes from the 35 ton that has a sme plate all the way up to the 175 ton that has no plate just an oversize permit and they have checked them.... more often on the big cranes just because the tend to catch the eye
I agree with 53cummins, if it goes down the road, still under jurisdiction of DOT. And they know cranes, they'll whip out the portable scales and check your weight on side of road, better have your overweight permit if required.
We run as SME in Iowa and the DOT will check our permits and weigh us if they feel so inclined. As for the trees... I purchased my crane business 6 months ago. Before that, I worked with the old timer whose business I bought. The absolutely scariest thing that I saw him do was tree work. He made good money at it, but taking those unknown loads with a fair amount of shocking loading was spooky. Didn't help that the guys he was usually working for were a bit wild and wanted to push the envelope. If I had been the crane operator, those guys would have been doing things my way, or they would have been looking at winches, counterweights, and taillights. I'd rather drive off than dump my crane on someone's house. That said, it can be done. Just has to be done cautiously.
Thats right tree work is the most difficult thing a crane operator can do, it can also be very enjoyable if you have a climber who is good that you can trust and get along with. Unknown weights are the biggest problems with tree work, the climber you work with has to be very skilled at estimating the weight of every pick and if he keep underestimating the weight of all the wood, leaves, fruit and seeds or if he repeatedly shock loads the crane because he doesn't have you pretention the line enough then it is time to pack up and leave. You might not get paid for that time, but just think about all the time you'd lose trying to get the dirty side of you rig back down. Remember to derate your chart, unless we're picking a fallen log off the ground we never try to load the crane beyond 50% of the rated capacity.