An old dozer operator (now passed) not known for telling tall stories, once told me a yarn over smoko. I have recently tried to research this but can find no mention. The story goes: Back in the day (possibly 50's or 60's) "They" (Possibly the government) decided to attemt to simulate a nuclear explosion by chain pulling 500 acres of Brigalow scrub (Possibly in the Clermont Queensland area) and then raking the fallen timber into a 50 acre "pile" and then setting it on fire. I have seen Brigalow fires and while not sure such a blaze would be nuclear worthy, it would surely be spectacular. Those of you who know the big Brigalow scrub of those days would know that this feat would require some considerable methodology and would surely have required D9'S which may help identify a time frame. I think there is some uncertainty over who put the first D9's into scrub in Queensland but someone may know when, within a year or two. Now that I have written this it does seem a bit unlikely but it something that has stayed with me for a long time. Was it just a story ?
I think he was pulling your leg, I'll ask my Grandad tomorrow and repost if he knows anything about it.
Yes, it did happen; at least the preparation did. I don't recall the actual fire. I remember seeing the story and photo in the paper (Courier Mail?) when I was a kid. Would have been in the mid '60s from memory. My father was pulling scrub in the Biloela area at the time which generated my interest in the operation you describe above. We moved to Biloela in 1963 and operated until around 1970, so I would put the 'fire' around 1964 to 1968.
I know nothing about this myself, but this might be what you are talking about, I just Googled it. http://www.arcfuels.org/maggie/AGER...and around a large free-burning fire 1973.pdf It certainly would have been impressive to see. RnR.
It says they started it on Oct 23, 1969. I bet that was a big fire.
Well there you go, you learn something new every day!
It mentioned 5 16mm cameras, and still photos taken. It would be awesome to see them!
There are a few photos here, scroll down to 1969-12 and 1969-13, Euroka Burn Experiment. http://www.gmat.unsw.edu.au/pictorial_history/photo_gal.htm RnR.
Yair . . . bit of a fizzer I reckon. It doesn't even look like they stacked the windrows very high. To continue with the theme some of the most spectacular fires occured in the bottom the Arcadia Valley. This is a sort of rift valley in central Queensland surrounded by sandstone escarpments. It was balloted out in the 'sixtys and one of the conditions was that several thousand acres of each selection had to be pulled. The brigallow was probably the biggest that has ever existed and when working the high country and slopes the Allis 21's in places were pretty much blade to blade. There was a huge amount of fuel and a lot of the material wasn't laying flat. The chain had passed over it and layed it over forming an aeriated mat probably ten feet deep in places. The amount of fuel plus (I believe) the shape of the escarpments created some of the hottest scrub fires ever. I had to fly to Brisbane the afternoon the boys lit the first twenty thousand acres and I could see the mushroom cloud from Toowoomba a distance of five or six hundred miles. There was a huge amount of ash and for some time the climate changed in the valley with the afternoon convection lifting huge rolling clouds of the stuff up the escarpments and creating local ash storms. We bloody near suffocated in a Toyota one evening and, when we could see well enough to drive we realised we were in an ash drift, the bloody stuff had built to a third of the way up the doors. It eventually rained and washed the ash into the creeks and gullys and wiped out all the fish. The country was cooked and took a long time to recover but now is probably some of the best country in the state. Cheers.
The collective knowledge of this forum's members knows no bounds and my faith in the old bloke is restored. They reckon these big fires can create all sorts of wierd air currents and mini tornadoes that can lift up a burning log and explode it in mid-air. There must be hundreds of interesting anecdotes relating to the scrub pulling subject (scrub puller has shared a few). The same old fella told me one about a dozer driving straight over a ten foot cliff in thick scrub. When the tractor hit the bottom nose first, the engine gaurds flew open and the operator was thrown from his seat and into the engine bay. He survived with a few burns and bruises so the story goes. I wish my memory was better as i'm sure he told me many more.
Scrubpuller , Do you know an old bloke out at calliope Bruce Kingsford Smith ? He did a fair bit of scrubpulling back in his younger days .I have DVDs of home movies he has .
Yair . . . ianoz . No mate I don't know Bruce Kingsford Smith. I only worked for a couple of mobs and we didn't have much contact with other outfits . . . and of course there wasn't the communications we have today. Any movie of scrub pulling is precious to us blokes who were there and unfortunately I had about a dozen rolls of super eight and hundreds of photo's ruined in the '74 floods in Brissy. spanner . Yes mate lots of stories some funny some a bit sad when you think about it. A mate and I are probably the only people on earth to have seen a mob of probably a hundred koala bears running on the ground. We worked all night on the Nines finishing a ten thousand acre block of Yapunyah out from Augathella. The dust was bad and coming up to daylight as we were cutting out a three chain strip I saw something moving and it was wall to wall bears running along in front of the chain. Poor little buggers. There wasn't much we could do but we just left the strip and they would have all starved to death I reckon . . . and I copped an earfull from the cocky for leaving it, he wasn't at all sympathetic for the bears. Cheers.
There was a Bruce Smith out around Banana in the '60s. I think he had property there and had D4s that he used on the property and then extended into contracting with bigger machinery. Could be the same fella. There were a few plants that pulled scrub in the Callide and Dawson Valleys; Doug Parker with D6s, HD11s, then D7s; Spiro and Miron Katsanevas did a bit with D65 Komatsus and maybe D7s; ****(?) Fisher with D9s a bit further west. Alf Reinke did a bit of single tractor work in the area with a D6.
Could very well be the same Bruce . I don't think he used the Kingsford part of his name in the earlier days . From what he told me , Also worked down on the Snowy Mountains Scheme . . Scrub puller , Ifr my mate I loaned the DVDs to gets around to returning them . We will have to catch up . Will be happy to let you have a lend of them to watch . . Are you going out to Bilolea for the tractor show ? I will be there With a Bare Cat D47U ..Come and say Hi ,if your out there .
Yair . . . ianoz . Didn't even know there was a tractor show at Billo . . . I'll have to check my movements. Know the feeling with the loaning DVD's and books bit. We are on the highway south of Miriam Vale if you're ever going by. Cheers.
Imagine it , never heard of it, but the things that the govenrment do for research..would have been pretty incredible to see.
Look what you stumble on in You tube . http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xDmAnM_9dxE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDK8qY0EKoo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLRuhpmi4ek&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWneOlC-NBg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=sp9DXezDU70&feature=endscreen
watched 4 of them...thats a lot of torque..
That looks like It could be a lot of fun. I know I would be the jag-off with that big chain wraped up in the tracks. Would not make a good day trying to get that out.
A mate has told me of his grandfather clearing trees with a dozer around Towoomba. It was too steep to be safe to be on the dozer so he would set it going at the top then get off and walk down and get back on at the bottom. I believe it to be a true stroy but have no proof.
Yair . . . buckfever. That's exactly right. That chain can do a lot of damage. It can pop plates off like you wouldn't believe and often after a serious "chain up" incident you will do a final drive. Understanding "chain management" was a lot of what operating a scrub tractor was all about . . . it didn't limit your movements you just had to do it right. Dunno 'bout that one Bala . I reckon it would be more dangerous getting on and off than riding her down. Thanks for the vid. links ianoz . . . those hi-tracks in the scrub just don't look right, bloody nice going though. We'd call that "vine scrub" over hear, lots of lubrication for the chain with all the leaves and it pulls like grease. Cheers.
Certainly is good going, we would never be able to accomplish any thing in our timber, (eucalypts and brigallow) without tree pushers. We also had to do a fair bit of extra work leaning on bigger trees as we went past, and having to back right along the chain to get the ones that pulled you up. Look's like they were expecting trouble from some of the locals, unhappy about their sudden eviction, judging by the white overalls,hood and gloves. Cheers, Greg
hi all, I was looking around for photos of Bruce rhoades original 21's that did the pulling at home here (arcadia valley) and got led here, and I assume that "Scrub Puller", you may have done some of this work? would you have any photos of the original scrub pulling in the Arcadie area? or know of any? as a third generation local , i have a few of home (southern end of arcadia valley) and may be able to track down a few more from the neighbours if it is of any interest to anyone on here.
Yair . . . . Welcome to the site Arcadia95. This is a good friendly place and the collective knowledge here is incredible. If you can post pictures of old machinery every one seems to find it of interest even if it does not relate to their line of work . . . witness some of the amazing black and white pictures posted by camptramp and others on the logging threads. I remember one morning looking out over the valley from the top of the escarpment on "Korcha" with Wattlebender Smith before a stick had been pulled . . . brigalow as far as the eye could see. Wattlebender guided us to a place where we could get the tractors down (I think onto what was then Gaiters block) and we started pulling there. If you do a search of my posts you will find an "old photo's" thread which has some pictures of the old 21's . . . We never took enough shots in those days as we did not realise what we were doing was of any great significance. If no go with the search I could post a few again . . . most are just of the tractors and not particularly of the Valley unfortunately. By the same token if you can muster up any machinery pictures from that era they would be of particular interest to me and to most folks on this site. Even some pictures of some of the large standing remnant brigalow would be of much interest to me and perhaps some shots of the Valley as it is now with the escarpments in the background. A "Google Images" search of "Arcadia Valley" shows some pictures but they are a little impersonal. It seems to me the escarpments carry more vegetation these days . . . my memories are of bare rock in many colours from stark white to red . . . but then it was a long time ago. (big grin) Cheers.
I will certainly muster up a few photos of the valley now, what led me to this discussion is that last week, I went with a neighbor for a ride up to the back of Hilly Vale (originally gaiter's), he also owns Korcha, and we were looking for the point in which you originally came down the range as he will possibly bring a couple of his d9h's down in the future, a lot of respect to you for coming down there :notworthy We followed a bared of track (now pine and wattle covered) which went out to a point, however we found where dozers had come down a small sandstone ledge back to the north on the boundary of Korcha. I imagine that whole process would have been very treacherous We still found it interesting to see visible signs of tracks push and cleat marks on rocks from over 50 years ago. Ive also heard storys that one of the new 21's ended up on its canopy right near the start of pulling in the valley?!?
just a few pictures you may be intersted in Scrub Puller, I would believe some of the first pictures are the dozers you drove? and there are a few other associated pics there. the newer ones are just some I have taken recently, one of my brother (6 foot tall) next to a bottle tree out the back, and a few of the ranges with scrub on them. The last picture with the bikes in it is actually on Hilly Vale in the scrub below the korcha boundary close to where you would have arrived in the valley.
Yair . . . Gotcha Arcadia95. I went back up there to have a look some years back and, truth be known, it wasn't as steep as I imagined. (wry grin) Bad enough though and a sheer ledge about five foot high had to be bounced over about halfway down. We had three tractors and probably close to a thousand feet of chain which we shackled together and seeing as I ran the centre tractor with the Vee blade I was lowered over the edge to blaze the way. The descent was pretty uneventful . . . that false track out onto that point was pretty hairy as the dust was heavy and the wattle was thick and Wattle Bender was taking us out along the wrong point. Eventually I saw him in the dust and he showed us where we had been clattering along not thirty yards from the top of the sheer escarpment and didn't know a thing about it. (shakes head) Actually when I went back I got lost too. All those turns and twists in the top of the escarpment are bulk confusing . . . I could see my ute down there in the open country below but it was nearly dark before I made it down there. Did you see the stone cairns up there? There is proper one I believe is a survey point but I believe our fellers built one as a sort of a time capsule . . . they had a pickle bottle in there with the dates and names involved in the carry on or so they told me. I found a rough cairn but couldn't see any time capsule . . . A bit of a myth I think. We had pushed a track through to the top of the escarpment for our tanker and fuelled up before we took the tractors down and next day they went back out walked down to the tractors and started pulling . . . Bruce dropped by in Delta Lima Charlie only to find his brand new 21 arse up in a breakaway. Cheers.
Yair . . . Arcadia95. We were posting together, those photo's weren't up when I started typing!! Yes they are the tractors, I mostly ran the machine with V blade unusual to see it pulling on the inside, it was always intended as the centre tractor. I have no knowledge at all of that low loader incident. Its the four axle Drake trailer so It must be the "B" model Mack up front. Very easy to happen when roads start to dry after rain . . . no power steering and a front wheel hits a soft spot and drags you off there's not much you can do. If you look closely you can see a further issue in that the chain from underneath the tractor has come adrift and is trailing in the wheel tracks . . . I have had it cause some major problems getting around wheels and axles. The big feller with hands on hips calculating the next move will get it sorted . . . he is one of the most capable bush mechanics and fixit men I have ever known. Cheers.
I worked for Ken Roads around Coonabarabran NSW & later in Springsure Queensland in the late 1960's. 2 D9 G,s. We used anchor chain & wire rope. We working in iron bark,box trees.
Hey guys, I watched the videos and I would like your thoughts. I only have experience removing brush and Scrub with a track loader so I am wondering how much more effective the chain is or is not compared to using just a track loader for clearing ground that will need to be tilled? Does the chain get stumps also? Once you get in to brush a certain size is it a no go? It appears that the chains pull down large trees? It also appears to work fast. It appears that the purpose it to get the brush to lay over for burning?
I know this is an old thread but does anyone have any pictures of the D9G's that Bruce Rhoades used to use scrub pulling.
A guy that cleared a few acres for me said you need to lay the tree's and brush over one way and then go at it at 90 deg's. to rip everything loose so you can pile it. Just laying a large area over and burning it would be like a large wildfire.