Hi Everyone, We are looking for a new mini excavator to replace our aging Bobcat 320, which has been an awesome machine with minimal issues apart from a few hydraulic hoses. So any thoughts on my short list of choices, based on what we need it for would be appreciated. We are looking at these 4 models, as we have all four dealers within 30 miles. We will be digging (obviously) and also running a flail mower that requires around 10-12 gpm of oil flow. We have a big enough pickup and trailer to haul all these size machines. Bobcat E26 (25 hp, 6500 lb, 14.2 gpm hydraulic pump) Deere 26G (20 hp, 6100 lb, 15.8 gpm) Cat 302.7D CR (20.7hp, 6200 lb, 23.6 gpm) Kubota U25 (20.9, 5600lb, 20.3 gpm) Bobcat has the best financing (till end of this year). I'm confused about specs, as the Kubota has 20.3 gpm hydraulic pump and a 12.7 auxiallry hydraulic system. Does that mean it has 33 gallons of flow or does the 12.7 come out of the 20.3? Thanks for your time and MERRY CHRISTMAS !
I am suspicious of the CAT and Kubota gpm spec. I am guessing the CAT number is total gpm not at the aux. I would also guess that the aux gpm output for the Kubota is 12.7 gpm. Might also want to compare PSI ratings, that is also important when running things like flail mowers. Looks like they all spec close to each other. Just because it is heavier, I assume the BC machine would handle the flail mower out at max extension (assuming a similar boom length) better than the others. Might just come down to which one you prefer.
Thanks KSSS ! I have found its incredibly difficult to compare apples to apples, when trying to compare excavators as they all have their own way of measuring output it seems (or not reporting it at all). After some serious searching, I found this for the Kubota U25 pump capacity is 7.6 gpm Piston × 2 + 5.1 gpm x 1 = 20.3 total GPM Bobcat E26 auxillary flow 2611 psi Deere 26G ? Cant find it within Deere literature. Cat 302.7D CR 2987psi max pressure Kubota U25 Can't find it within Kubota literature
That looks right for a total gpm, but that is not what you will see at the aux. port on the stick for GPM on the Kubota. A machine this size will typically see about 13-14 gpm at the aux. port. The CAT psi rating is good, the closer to 3K the better. Typically the higher the psi rating the gpm tends to be a bit lower, but the higher psi will pay dividends when your running your mower.
Hey man, good on you for comparing, but I would be diligent in sorting the sales ******** on a mini! I think those things have given way to the ******** on lawn mowers. I will just remind that physics works the same in ALL OEM facilities and you cannot escape certain realities, regardless of the sales ********. 1. Pumping power requirements are nearly the same for ALL machines. Meaning if all machines truly have the same HP, they will move the same fluid. Just remember that flowrate AND pressure are components of a pump power calculation. I can move over 100gpm of water with .5HP if I only need about 5psi, but I sure as hell cannot pump that water up to 5000psi AND move 100gpm. However, I most certainly can do .5gpm at 5000psi with .5HP (think pressure washer). 2. Pumps in these machines are 'positive displacement' so each rev of the actual pump will displace a certain volume at full stroke. That might be a good way to compare if you are focused on max 'volume'. 3. Don't discount all the hoses and fittings. 5000psi at the pump does not equal 5000psi at full flow rate at the end of the stick. Line size and such can dictate some of this. 4. Remember that HP is a product of torque and rpm. Some mfg may simply turn up the engine RPMs, which will reduce pump/engine life, BUT they can advertise higher HP AND flowrate. Just be careful when comparing data directly from the lie sheet. I doubt many OEMs are above lying for a sale. I am simply trying to say, if everyone is running a REAL 20HP at X rpm, they will pretty much move the same amount of oil. It would come down to line size, fittings, and other factors on how well that is communicated to the aux ports.
I'd give the edge to Bobcat with 25% more rated engine power. On paper, 1 GPM at 1717psi requires 1 hp, but IRL it takes a little more power than that. Multiply horsepower*1717/gpm to see the approximate pressure available at rated flow. Low pressure is good for moving an empty stick, but won't do much for a mower.
Thanks Fastline and Terex, I have found its very difficult to get good technical information, as the salesmen only know whats on the brochure and pricelist. The Kubota appears to have a separate hydraulic pump for the auxiliary functions (like a flail mower), so boom/travel functions wont starve the flail for oil flow. The others don't appear to have a separate hydraulic pump.
Looking at the Kubota website it shows the U25 at 12.7 gpm at the aux. I could not find where it states that there is a pump which its sole purpose is to run aux. hyd. It is a 3 pump set up which is typical. I would guess that one of those pumps is responsible for aux flow, but typically also runs additional functions (if I remember right the IHI set up ran aux. and travel). That is typically a gear pump. I had an IHI that was 4 pump, and I see that Yanmar is also a 4 pump set up. CAT for years was a single pump set up, that may have changed by now. The machines ability to multifunction is an indication of how well the hyd system is designed. At only 20 hp there is only so much power to go around to power the different pumps. It is hard to run aux attachments on a demo since quick couplers are seldom compatible. A dealer can easily check the psi and flow at the aux. circuit to confirm what is in the spec sheet. If the flow and psi are there, that would give you some indication of how it would perform.
I second what KSSS has said. Your mower (or any attachment) has a small window of acceptable hydraulic input for optimum performance. I have had a few friends who have come up short when relying on the claims of brochures and salesman. Have the dealer put a flow meter on the unit/s you are considering. A flow meter can determine exactly what flow is coming from the machine a given pressure. As it relates to financing Cat is currently offering 0% for 60 months with zero $ down on mini excavators. I know this because I am currently shopping and have that offer presented to me (it is also well publicized). I don't know what the Bobcat financing is (because I refuse to buy another-I currently have 3) but I doubt that you can do any better than what Cat is offering.
I purchased a Cat 304E at work this past year and it's been a real nice machine but I am disappointed in how when running the brush head I have to release the auxiliary line to move the stick. I would imagine the Cat machine you're looking at would be similar. If you're planning to run hydraulic attachments regularly I'd found out which machine will allow you to maneuver the stick while the attachment is running.