D6t lgp #kjl01290 with service code 2674 and a particular 248 code in which is not in list of codes that will not fire. No smoke and cranks good
Both of those Codes should have a dash-something suffix (e.g. -8). That is important. The 248 relates to a problem relating to communication between the various ECMs over the Cat Datalink. This could be the reason why you have a crank - no start situation.
Datalink would be my first suspect, but I am not 100% sure if that would cause a no start condition. See attached. Do you have an electrical schematic for the complete machine.? If not do you want one.?
Having thought a bit more about this I suggest the first move should be to get ET hooked up to the machine and check the Injection Actuation Pressure, both Actual and Desired. What happened to the tractor before it failed to start.? Is this something that happened suddenly or has starting been difficult for a while until it finally reached the point where it would not start at all.?
Ran fine. Less than 150 hours on engine. Turned off and tried to started 30 later. Nothing. Would any or does those service codes prevent running? I would like a schematic. Great to have you help me out as I had a tech come out at end of day (my mistake) for 2 hours and got a 1200.00 verbal with no parts or results. Ask for a PSR and field coordinator wasn't sure tech did one but would check. No reply yet. Thought that be a prerequisite.
IMHO it should be SOP for a tech to do a PSR immediately he connects ET to the machine and he ought to have his *** kicked if he didn't do it. Try troubleshooting the 248-2 procedure above and see where it gets you. I still have my doubts if it would cause a Crank - No Start condition. I will send you one directly. Keep an eye on your messages.
Do need to add tech said had low voltage to engine ecm and monitor. Thinking he said 6 volts.
You can check that by using the schematic I sent you. On each ECM (eng & trans) there will be multiple power feeds. Some via the key switch, others direct from battery. You can figure out which is which using the below colour code system on the schematic.
Putting you in for raise!!!!!
Thanks very much. Very very cold here at -13 and will be going to Az hopefully by end of week as I have a tree spraying business there. Will be back in April so hang in there as I can see you are a very helpful and sincere on what you do to help people. Jim. P.S. If I get back over to dozer this week I may get back to u. THANKS
Had thought I included these to you already but see now not. Think there are 2 more maybe besides the 2 you have gotten already
Additional codes are 96.03, 681.05, 177.03, E 281.2
Could a get a copy of the electrical schematic to add to the library folder hard drive , Email is [email protected] thanks
Nije Are all ecm's wires and etc 12 volt? Just the starter is 24 correct?
Think I found and should have known answer but the converter is what threw me. Please comment. Thanks
Everything on that machine is 24v except the supply coming out of the 24/12 voltage converter. So on all the ECM power inputs you should see the same voltage as whatever you measure across the TWO batteries in series.
OK, here we go. 96-03 - Fuel level sensor, voltage above normal 681-05 - Parking Brake Solenoid, current below normal. 177-03 - Transmission Temp Sensor, voltage above normal. E281-2 - Steering Hydraulic filter restricted. Out of all those the parking brake stands out, but I usually associate a park brake circuit issue with a No Crank - No Start condition which your situation is not. I don't have a troubleshooting procedure for MID113 CID681 FMI05 but I do have one for a different module (MID039). Just remember to identify wire numbers/colours using the schematic because the ones in the procedure for the Machine ECM may not be correct for the power train ECM.
Here's the appropriate procedure for the Powertrain ECM of a KJL-prefix machine. I still can't get past thinking it needs ET on it to monitor Desired & Actual IAP. See the attached video. A different engine model I know but the HEUI system electronics works exactly the same way. If Actual IAP does not reach Desired IAP the electronics will not come out to play and there will be no smoke from the chimney.
I had sent 13 other codes previous of the last 4 you just commented on. They are on note paper possibly on page 1 of this informative imfo. Think you may have missed those or just got thru them yet. Thanks
Sorry I thought what was on the photo was the same as the 4 you listed in the post below it. I’ll take a look at them. EDIT: After having looked at the photo, a question……. When you scrolled through all those Codes did you take care to note for which ones the SERV CODE icon lit up.? Because that is the indication of a Code that is Active, any other Code on the list is Logged which effectively means it was there once but is not there now.
Take a look at the linked thread, especially posts 50-52 on Page 3. With no more that a couple of pieces of automotive wire you can erase all Logged Codes leaving you with only the ones that are Active (Active Codes cannot be erased) The famous Cat "Click Box" Here are a couple of extracts from the Schematics John. HeavyEquipmentForums
Asked for psr and they said they could not communicate with it. Did not have one. Told them they are just guessing then. Said to them they need to fix that first if that be case. Is that possible as all are up on my monitor. They even asked if I new what one is. Lol
I suggest that you should scroll through the list of Codes on the Monitor again. As you do, pay particular attention to the SERV CODE icon. If it is illuminated when a particular Code is displayed on the screen then that Code is Active, if it is not then the Code is Logged and can be discounted for the purposes of trying to find the reason for the No Start condition.
Understand that but thought it may give insight to the existing service code. I may gave asked already but can it be started if service codes are up and just some particular ones possibly? Just talking service codes on screen not the problem that caused it. Was told if present they need to be cleared to start and run.
There are certain Diagnostic Codes that could potentially cause a Crank - No Start scenario. They are usually related to the HEUI system but there may be others. Only if the Code in question is a) Active and b) affects the operation of the HEUI system. Maybe....... the person who told you that mis-quoted slightly and meant to say that "Active Codes must be diagnosed & repaired (thus turning them into Logged Codes) before they can be cleared ." Nothing to do with being able to start the engine.
OK, so the 13 Codes from the photo are: - MID030 is the Monitor System. MID113 is the Powertrain ECM. NOTE that there are NO Codes, either Active or Logged, for the Engine ECM MID036............ 1. 0096-3 - Fuel Level Sensor. 2. 248-2 - Cat Datalink error. 3. E179-2 - Alternator not charging. 4. 247-9 - SAE J1939 Datalink error. 5. 2674-02 - Multi-velocity program switch. Are you sure you don't mean 0674 (trans intermediate speed sensor #1).? That would make more sense. 6. 673-02 - Transmission output speed sensor #2. 7. 585-02 - Transmission output speed sensor #1. 8. 672-02 - Torque converter output speed sensor. 9. 722-05 - Secondary Brake solenoid. 10. 689-05 - Left Brake solenoid. 11. 590-09 - "Engine Control Module" - "Abnormal Update Rate". FMI 09 pertains to the communication between the electronic controls (engine & powertrain in this case) on the data link. FMI 09 occurs when an electronic control is not able to receive any information from another electronic control, when the electronic control expects to receive information. 12. E281-2 - Steering hydraulic filter restricted. Of all that list the only think I can think might be remotely concerned with starting is #11 - provided that it is Active. Again it goes back to ET. It really needs to get it hooked to the machine and check how many ECMs it is seeing, especially is it seeing the Engine ECM.?
Up and running!! Ground wire off of engine ecm!! Thanks a bunch!!!
And that won’t create a Diagnostic Code…..!!!! I recall one time in a training class that one problem-solving exercise was to troubleshoot an engine ECM with problems. What they had done was pull the power wire part way out of the connector but not so far that you’d notice. That one caused some head scratches I can tell you…..
Had bad connections at machine and engine ecm at fuse block that looked to be to hot at one time also. Was so happy that it started that forgot to look if the fix on fuse block cleared them 2 service codes.
Nige your comment brings back nightmares. A while ago working for a Massey Ferguson dealer we would get the tractors after the training courses. Full of backed out pins, probed wires, cross treaded interior screws, blown fuses, and glazed up from hours of idle.
Should have put 2 & 2 together - looking back through your posts the problem occured 150 hours after an engine installation.....
All service codes gone except the E0281.2
Check that the bypass valve/switch setup on the filter head is working as it should and if that’s OK it sounds as though you need a filter change.
This is what you're up against. Switch could be bad, spool stuck, spring broken, etc, etc.? Could even be a wrong filter element causing too much restriction. Easy enough to check.
E code same as service codes? This is a E code I have now.
It is an EVENT, not a Diagnostic Code. Events have the E in front of the number, Diagnostic Codes do not. Events relate to something on the machine where there is (apparently) no fault with the electronics but something is amiss. The plugged filter Event being a case in point. Just that in the case of a plugged filter warning you need to make sure nothing mechanical is amiss before simply swapping the filter.
Questions Questions!! Temperature gauge is not reading temp. Moves went turning key on. When working dozer it goes up just off the bottom of scale maybe 10th of the whole scale but that is like an hour or 2 to do that. Checking sensor on engine it is a 3 wire 3 pin. Talked to parts man at cat says its a 2 wire. Part #264-4297 he says is correct. Have what is thought to be it a 3 wire pin on left side and wondering what that would be? Serial # again kjl01290 engine# thx31754. Have a 2 pin that is there on that side but goes to air intake I think guy said. Will send some pics maybe.
Three wire pic thought to be temp for coolant
#3 is for coolant temperature. Shown as 2-wire both in Parts Manual and electrical schematic. According to Parts Manual the sensor has no pigtail (2nd illustration). The engine wiring harness plugs straight into it. What are the wire colours & numbers if you can see any on the engine harness side of the connector for any sensor you're interested in. It makes it easier to identify stuff. Unless your photo above is deceiving that 3-pin connector doesn't look like anything Deutsch I've seen before. For a kickoff Deutsch 3-pin connectors are AFAIK all triangular. EDIT: The other sensors in that illustration are:- #2 - Inlet Manifold Temp #4 - Atmospheric Pressure #5 - Engine Oil Pressure #6 - Inlet Manifold Pressure #7 - Injection Actuation Pressure #8 - Speed/Timing
I think that's an Ampseal connector which has lost its cover and had the locking tab broken off. They're typically used on the newer Perkapillar engines.
I don't think I've ever seen one on a C9 though......
The OP's machine has the 3306034 sensor group due to there being a serial break at THX22180. It looks like this sensor group does use at least some Ampseal style sensors. However, in both sensor groups, the ECT sensor is 2 pin so the plug in the photo is for something else. Engine oil pressure maybe?
There are four options for a 3-wire sensor on that engine, and they are all pressure sensors, engine oil pressure being one of them. Again it comes back to the (as yet) unanswered question of what the colours/numbers are on the wires. With that information it would be easy to identify which sensor it is.
Brown, white and green on #7 of schematic. No numbers without stripping cover off.
Have a 465-6504 filter ordered but not sure it is applicable to my dozer. It's a canister. Have a cartridge type at my filler location. Is there another location for that # to go? Cat says its for my machine as the cartridge one also.
If it's the one I've circled - Atmospheric pressure. The arrowed one is coolant temp.
Were you looking in the right place.? The steering charge filter is located in a compartment at cab level on the LH side of the machine. Should have a door on it. 465-6504 is the correct Part Number for that filter.
Just the battery and fuse box on left. Have a cartridge one along with trans dip stick there in right side with door.
That’s the steering filter. I suggest that you make sure the filter bypass switch is working correctly while you are in there.
You had sent me a how to on clearing codes. Can't find it. Thanks in advance!!
Go back to Post #24 on the previous page. In it there is a link and a reference to details how to clear Codes. What happened with the E281 for the steering filter.?
My guy in Illinois is just now changing it. I'm in az working.
Is there a way or any imfo on checking that switch for operation on filter head? Also I'm assuming by erasing stored codes that event code will go too? If it comes back then could become a problem child sorta saying.
Dead easy to check the switch. Unscrew it from the filter housing then reconnect it to the machine harness. From memory with the button on the business end of the switch pressed the alarm should be off, released it should be on. You could do the same test with a multimeter to check the switch contacts are opening & closing.