Just speaking to our local grade contractor. Was still working on the old Allis 16B and looking for a haul bid IF I get it! They were in the process of replacing a set of undercarriage on a 963C. Full package from his supplier, parts only, Idler, all rollers, all new fasteners, rails, shoes and some wear parts not usually associated by me as seal kits for adjuster pistons, etc.. Parts total almost $16,000.00 and they had to install. Man I knew prices were up but WOW!
That's about what it would be for my 953C when the time comes, which isn't far away. Were those genuine Cat parts? The quote I got from my dealer was around $15K for rails, pads, sprocket segments, rollers and idlers - including R&R.
We just got a bid for our D5G, all Cat parts and labor was about 16,500. That's idlers, rollers, segments, rails, pads, reseal tensioners etc. Basically every part associated with undercarriage. I didn't think it sounded bad. Still haven't pulled the trigger, we may go aftermarket on it. Stuff is not getting any cheaper! We've had pretty good luck on smaller machines with Berco. Junkyard
Yes genuine Cat, they rely on their machines day in day out under hard duty so stick with what they know to be effective. Berco or ITR may be some less. Someone stated Berco and other companies now under ThyssenKrupp?
I replaced the rails , pads , idlers and segments on my 943 at the cost of 7500$. My bottom rollers were all in good condition except for the front behind the idlers. This was ITR brand. Keep in mind there are different grades of u/c from each manufacturer. I got the better rail with the polymer seals. 4 year 4000 hr warranty which is all pro rated anyway. Cat house was 10,500 same warranty.
Junkyard how many hours o the D5GXL. I have one that needs rails and segments about 2 grand cheaper price from Boyd and son vers cat.
If them prices scare you don't buy a cat with system one undercarriage. Over 20 grand to do a D6K undercarige. And that's not track pads
2310 hours. They're shot. We've had it most of those hours. Cat man did tell us they had a run of them that had poor life due to improper metallurgy. They also upgraded the size of things a bit so the segments, pitch, rail dimensions etc are slightly larger. Owner is tighter than bark on a tree so I doubt it'll end up with Cat on it. Being a finish dozer it'll be ok I'd imagine. Junkyard
Wonder why the Cat man that said they had metal problems didn't look to see if there is a service bulletin on these. I've heard good things about Boyd and Son. A guy south of me has 40 units , he told me not a month ago he is getting most of his u/c from Boyd and they were pretty accommodating. Seems like anymore if you get 3000 hours on a D5G size machine you are doing good. 6 size machines seem to get 5 to 6 k hours. You would think a smaller machine would be able to get more life because its not so heavy. I'm beginning to believe things are engineered well enough that it will fail shortly after the warranty period.
No shock at all . When the dozer is moving the undercarriage is wearing . When you do a complete undercarriage it can feel like your buying the machine again with labor & parts cost. Use the dozer when it's truly needed for " grouser track grunt work " and don't overlook rubber tire equipment for finish up & smaller tasks . Everything has it's place .
The last bridge we did was hard on it, I suspect that's what finished it off. Rocky and the slopes were steep, the operator seems to favor one side and it's worse. I also know they welded grouser bars on and I'm not sure if they grounded each pad as they went, I've heard the current through the rails and pins is hard on seals. The pins/bushings are SHOT, lots of lateral slop as well as being stretched enough the tensioner is just about maxed out. Rails have a lot of wear on them as well, the material on the outside edges is worn at an angle and flaking off. Just flat wore out. Junkyard
I've looked at hundreds of dozer undercarriages on Cats, Deere, Komatsu, Case and whatever else comes along and not seen any small tractor with standard or SALT chains get more than 3,400 hours. It seems to me that is about the limit on most all oval track machines. I've seen some high drives go longer but it costs a lot more so the cost per hour seems to kind of average out the same. Be glad you aren't putting new feet on a D10T. Those can run over $100K.
We're just doing UC on our 10T's. not sure what the final number is but on the other hand they are going 10k hours on a set of undercarriage. I'll have to look up the prices and post back.
Junkyard what part of OK are you working in. I'm just south of the river in NE Tx and from what I hear the rocks, sand, and hills in SE Ok are really hard on equipment.
I've put on a lot of undercarriage over the years. I've found that the Berco or ITP parts are lasting just as long as the Deere or Cat stuff at a lot less cost. Why spend 16k for 3500 hours when you can get the same hours for much cheaper. I haven't bought manufacturers undercarriage parts in I don't know how long. I've heard though, through several parts people at the majors, that a lot of the rails are not even manufactured by the majors any longer.
I've been lucky with my D5G. Bought it new in '04 and Cat replaced the rails due to a recall. They replaced the rails in 2005-06 I don't remember exactly, the dozer had less than 2K hours on it. Now the machine has 5K+ hrs and the rails are wearing great. Measured the UC several months ago and the rails are showing 30% wear which is not bad for 3K+ hours.
Sharp intake of breath - D10T undercarriage - $93k for parts, R&I labour on top of that ....... well there goes my end-of-year bonus.
Hell Nige the year is almost over....drag your feet a bit and worry about it in 2017! We are going to have to give our 11N's undercarriage some love soon. Had several dry pins show up this year. Can't break the "run to failure" mentality! Junkyard
No chance of that mate. I've got 5 tractors to do ASAP and a 6th one that will need doing by the end of January 17. I have 5 sets of tracks, rollers, idlers, sprocket & hardware sitting in the warehouse yard right now.
Hmmm well misplace a set and ship them to me! I'll fly over and buy you all the beer you can drink! Haha. It's amazing how expensive stuff is for big iron. Even some little stuff will get your attention! As crazy as it may sound I'd love to be a part of an operation like that. As well if it was cheap and easy everybody would do it! Junkyard
No doubt on the expensive side. 953 is going to Cat house to get new bucket and dog bone P&B's up front and two lift cylinders re-packed for the tune of $4K. If the pins are in good shape it'll be closer to $3K. Not as expensive as Nige's operation but hurts none the less going into winter.
Always a hoot owning big iron. Big play time then big pay time for all the play time!!
I often refer to the excavating business as " playing with fire ". I know a guy that had a D8H , had a dealer put a complete brand new Berco u/c under it. Keep it 6 more months and sent it to auction where it brought less than the u/c cost. I think it sold for 22K , I think the u/c was 24K. It would have made a nice push tractor on larger jobs. I try to keep my cost down without compromising ability. I don't see how some contractors do it.
Yair . . . You would think at the prices I see quoted for rails the submerged arc rebuilding which was the normal procedure fifty or sixty years back would be viable again. Hell, I've rebuild a set of rails for a little Fowler by hand for a restoration project, just clamped on some copper side bars for dams and wound the amps up on the Hobart, didn't take that long as I recall. Cheers.
Scrub, I've given things a similar thought. I want, and don't ask me why, an old Cat dozer. Pony motor start, cable lift etc. I like the early stuff and when a young man shows up to work with, or work on an old machine it's usually an entertaining conversation. I'd like to do some clearing work, maybe build some ponds with it. Keep it going any way I could. Build up rails, weld on cleats etc etc. I like doing that kind of work, not necessarily with a time table as I have a day job and busy kids but I hate to see the old ways forgotten. Random tangent I know! Junkyard
Amen Junkyard. I resemble them remarks. My rails on my cable 2U-D8 measure 100% with new segmented sprockets and new looking pads also. Don't think it was ever used after that as the clutch was out when I bought it. Probably to much traction for he old clutch.
My grandpa was that way, I guess farming through the depression will make you that way. Dad used to tell me they'd straighten nails on rainy days. I'm not sure I totally buy that but I wouldn't put it past pop. Hell when I was a kid, not that long ago (early 80's) pop still had a 1530 on steel. He'd rather fire it up than use his 706. Not too many folks with tractors in the family 50+ years. I like the saying "We've done so much with so little for so long we can do anything with nothing!" Junkyard
I can relate, my Great Uncle would tear down a shed, then sit most of a day with a block of steel and a hammer, straighten each and every nail pulled. I hate seeing old iron cut up unless it is so far gone as to not be worth the effort and that would be a long shot!
Problem is that although it's still technically feasible what kills it as a profitable process for a company is that the labour cost makes it prohibitive apart from in countries with cheap labour where it might still be profitable. I still wouldn't fancy rebuilding 6 sets of D10 links though.....
I remember an outfit in Palmerston North NZ that were flatout rebuilding trackgear in the 60's. It was all automatic submerged arc, just set and forget.They rebuilt Idlers, all rollers sprockets and rails for all track machines.Bugger all labour was involved. I think what killed it was cheap throw away track gear and the fact owners don't have to pay out for a set of gear to sit around waiting to be used. But with prices climbing like they are the old ways may come back. I was quoted a price for a set of OEM chains only for my little 6 ton machine of $10,000Aust plus tax. Guess where they are still?
Yair . . . Gotcha Nige. I never did get to see a chain being rebuilt but as I understand it (and from examining the finished product) they were set up on a jig and welded as one long pass intermittent pass, they could be pretty raggedy between links with, at times a fair bit of hand oxy cutting in places to give clearance. It worked well particularly on those 1960's Berco chains which tended to be brittle and I spent many nights welding cracks. I suspect they responded to the "annealing" affect of the welding process and they never cracked after rebuild We did some mods around the track adjusters/idlers of the Allis 21's and we could rebuild the chains up to 120% of new which was a considerable advantage as freight was a huge component of our costs. In these days of sophisticated robotics I would have thought this process could be automated quite simply? I was told that when welded chains were slipped onto the track press (after the heat of welding) the pins and bushes tended to poke out pretty easy. Cheers.
I'm certain you're right, but have you given any thought as to what the automated robotics might cost and the amount of business that would have to come through the track shop in order to make the payback period realistic...?
Was a metallizing company here in St. Louis, a division of Nooter but known as St. Louis Metallizing. Has been known to be expensive but would have the technology to do this. I wonder if anyone has made contact with them. http://www.stlmetallizing.com/index.php