I have a 2004 JD 450H LT with 3600 hrs. The grousers are worn down to a 3/4 inch height. I am a pretty new dozer operator as I bought this for my personal use on a small farm. So am debating different options to renew some grip, mostly dirt and in the woods or pastures. I tend to stay away from rocks if I can. Tractor looks to have the original links (not SALT). I have a quote for replacement grouser bars and while I am not a pretty welder, I can usually get things stuck together. Also have a quote for replacement pads, bolts and nuts. Another, including a new SALT set of links. I was thinking of removing a pad or getting a used pad and a couple pieces of grouser stock to practice a few passes and see if I thought it was satisfactory. I'm retired so my labor is not necessarily a cost to me. New pads were only about twice the cost of the grouser stock plus the 7018 rods it would use up. My question is what do you folks use to break those pad bolts free? I have a 3/4" drive breaker bar with a 22mm impact socket and I also have a 1/2" drive Dewalt electric impact wrench with 1/2" drive 22mm sockets, etc. I'm not sure just how hard they are going to be to break loose as I have not tried either yet. Am I likely to need something bigger (or heat) to get them loose? What is the preferred method? Thanks to all for any advice to this newbie dozer owner. By the way, have put 30 hours on the tractor since I got it and like it pretty well. Not a beast but if you give it time to let it work a bit, it will do a fair job.
Before re-grousering 1st determine the condition of the Pins & Bushings; internal wear & external wear
Don't take them off, just put the ground clamp on each shoe, weld one side of the grouser bar midpoint of the idler, the other side midpoint up the sprocket. Helps if you're working on soft ground if it's not up in the air. Move the machine, do another pair of welds. If you got blade and rippers just lift it up and go to town. Or jack and block. Be religious about moving the ground clamp though or you will screw something up as the current passes through things. You start a bar at each end each time you move the track, one full turn of the track you're done.
I was thinking of that way, but to weld more consistently (I'm just an old farm stick welder) I was thinking of setting up a little jig to hold the pad and grouser straight and horizontal at a comfortable height (from my welding stool). Then if I had the pads off, I could just set them on my jig and go to town. Tack each end on both sides, start in the middle with a small rod (get a little heat in there) and work to the side, then go from the other side back to the middle. Flip it over on the jig and repeat for the other side of the grouser. Then go back over with a fill pass with a bigger rod. I'm old so it hurts getting up and down a hundred times to reposition the tracks.... LOL
The ones that are in it (pins and bushings) haven't been turned and they look original to me (not the SALT type). Probably have more life in them than I do.
I can see after doing some more research that removing the pads to build up the grousers is not going to be cost or time effective. Also that my little Dewalt 1/2" impact or my 3/4" breaker bar is not going to get the bolts loose....and even if I did, they seem to be single use bolts/nuts (initial torque stretches them too much to re-use). So I guess now my question is this....buy grouser bar stock .... or flat steel bar stock from my local steel shop? Or like one friend suggested (he has a D5) just use re-bar to weld on to the grousers to build them up.
Getting the pads off and back on will be way more labor than welding them. I have heard stories about people unbolting track pads, (usually with bigfoot or a unicorn helping), but I've never succeeded at it. If you are going to try, you're going to need bigger tools, think 1" drive, and 15' pipe. The normal thing to do is torch off the bolts, since they have been torqued to yield, and won't stay tight if you could reuse them anyway. Somebody will chime in with the torque specs for a 450, but it'll usually be something like 120 ft-lbs, plus 90 degrees. This is way outside what is possible with a 1/2" impact. Good Luck
Hah, we typed at the same time. Grouser bar is way tougher and more wear resistant than regular old A36 flat bar, and I have heard from several good sources that rebar is a good compromise. I haven't ever tried myself :beatsme.
Check Dura-Tuff for grouse bar material. http://www.duratuff.com/products/grouser-bar/ HeavyEquipmentForums Don't get carried away & spec too large of size. If your grousers are rounded at the ends, order 14" length instead of 16"; leaves room to build up @ the ends. You can probably weld 3 bars at both ends of the track before turning. Turning can be done using hydraulic jack & wooden blocks instead of climbing up and down and starting the machine. 1 weld pass might do the job using 3/16th 7018 @ 230-240amps, ESAB Atom-Arc is excellent rod. No pre-heat required just burn off any moisture.
I bought the duratuff weld on bars for my d8H years ago. they worked good plus they come with a bevel on them for welding to old grousers. I welded the middle first than used a hammer to bend the ends down to contact old grousers. mine were rounded at ends a little. I blocked up the dozer and used a chain come along to rotate tracks. worked good. You can weld 3 at each end once you get going. plus your welding skills will be better after you get done. lol
The quote I received from Dura-Tuff came back quickly and they quoted the HC0616 grousers. I gave them the measurements of what I had left on my grousers. They are about .400 inch wide across the top and .75 inch high from the top of the shoe so there isn't a whole lot of grip left. Rides a little smoother though!! I'll have to go back to their website to see what that height is. Would you folks weld on now at that existing height (the 3/4" that is left) or wait a little longer? It doesn't seem a piece of rebar is going to give me a lot of improved height but it would all depend on the diameter of the rebar. The bottom of the grouser is about 3/4" wide so I suppose a 3/4" diameter rebar sitting on top of the grouser would give me a pretty good fillet to weld up. Not sure how long the rebar would last but like I say, this tractor will most likely not see over a couple hundred hours a year.....that may change now that friends and relatives know that I have it. HA You know how that goes. Still go with the 7018 rods using the rebar? Edit....checked that #6 profile from Dura-Tuff. 1 1/16 inch high, 5/8 inch base width and 1/2 inch wide at the top.
seems a little big to me, YMMV
If you check out the Dura-Tuff website there is a Word file available for download that sets out the complete procedure for installing grouser bar. http://dev.dura-tuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Selecting-the-Right-Bar.pdf To get the correct bar profile you need to determine the "width at worn height" (C). That width determines the bar you need from the profiles on Page 3 of ..... http://dev.dura-tuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/DTGrouserProfiles.pdf According to the data on page 6 of the above file a JD450 is suggested to use #6 or #7 bar. Which one of the two profiles would be needed would depend on the worn height of the existing grousers on the tractor.
Forgive me if somebody pointed this out. Grouser stock is cheap. I just bought enough for yours, and mine for $150. Shoe bolts may come off with an impact wrench. An acetylene torch gets the rest. Evaluate your chain, rollers, and sprockets. If grousers are your problem, add to them. Weld from center in a three step process, or take them off, and pre heat to 450 D F. Most mechanics will add to grouser height on the chain. I would use 7018 5/32 on DCEP at 180 amps. Work around the track 1/3 width, and 1 side at a time. Complete both sides of the center on each shoe, then move on to edges. If you aren't a seasoned welder, it's a good learning opportunity. A 1/16 gap helps to start a fit. Willie
I gave Dura-Tuff the measurements of the grouser bar as they exist now...... .40 wide across the top and .75 high from the shoe. They recommended the HC0616 which is the "High Carbon #6 grouser X 16" long" Is this high carbon grouser the same as the "G" rated grouser stock in those .pdf files that you mentioned in the above post?
The ones I use are high manganese steel Willie
It is the same bar AFAIK but it doesn't have the full thickness heat treatment. For your farm usage it will be fine and have the added advantage that it will be easier to weld.
G rated bar RC20 hardness = general service IS ALL YOU REQUIRE...you'd be wasting $$$ using thru-hardened bar on a 'hobby dozer' application