Hi everyone, I am new to the forum. I recently bought a 1985 Case 580SE and while I was installing a block heater I notice that I was getting oil in the coolant making the dreaded milkshake. The first thing I did was removed the oil cooler on the side of the block and pressure tested the cooler and it did not leak at 60 psi. I flushed the coolant system 5 times with dishwasher powder and then 2 times with water until it was draining clear and then I flushed it a couple more times with water as insurance. I then refilled the system with 50/50 coolant and then I noticed that there was black oil in the coolant reservoir! It almost looks like the previous owner accidently added engine oil to the coolant reservoir as it was not milky in color it just looked like used oil. I cleaned out the reservoir and added fresh coolant to it. After running it for twenty minutes the milky color started to return to the coolant. At this point I checked the shuttle oil and it was also milky. I drained the shuttle oil, however it has also gone milky again. The engine oil does not have any water in it. I am assuming the two problems are related, is it possible that the engine coolant and shuttle oil are contaminating each other through a leaking expansion/frost/core plug in the back of the engine. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
***Did you drain the torque converter??**** No, the engine to shuttle do not...can not pass fluids. Radiator: Had oil, is it back? Shuttle: Has it been flushed? ***Did you drain the torque converter??**** It holds a 1 to 2 quarts of oil. The fluid in the torque converter is the same as your shuttle and does pass back and forth. There is a plug in the bottom of the bell housing. If the torque converter is lined down (bolt down) it lines up with this plug in the bell housing and can be drained. Re fill is via shuttle fill. Also, is there a filter in the pan, I don't think it would cause a milkshake... but if you what to fix it right... change the filter... If above doesn't help, go to your local auto parts store. Rent, borrow, buy a radiator pressure tester. This is a pump that goes on the top fill of the radiator. Stay below 10psi so you don't blow apart the radiator. Pump it up and start looking. ---Shuttle cooler might be in the radiator???? Im not sure on this last part. Follow the lines coming out of the shuttle to the cooler. Since you said you just got it... When I bought mine I checked all oils and the rear. All was good. When I got it home I drove it around and found milkshake in the rear. If the 580 sat long enough the water will separate out of the oil and collect in the bottom. Checking the oil will not show water in this case. This said, your case might had made a trip though water then sat. The shuttle has a vent on top, so does you rear end, both are the just below the height of the cab floor. The milkshake on my rear end didn't show up till I drove it for a while. When I drained it, I got water 1st then the milkshake as I still had not mix all the water into the rear end oil. Post what you find please. It might help the next guy or gal.
What pressures does the cooler see in normal service? wondering if its a hot leak vs a cold bench leak.
Hi outlawspeeder, thanks for the advice, I will certainly post what I discover. I did drain the shuttle before, but I did not drain the torque converter, so could definitely be old water/oil contaminating the fresh oil. I ordered a barring tool 2 days ago and it just showed up tonight (gotta like Amazon). So I will drain both the shuttle and torque convertor and see if the milkshake returns. I will look for a filter in a pan, the parts manual shows only a screen but I will take a look when I pull the pan. Regarding the coolant, the oil did come back after I flushed it and it was again in the rad, but the first series of flushes was done with the thermostat out and once it flushed clear I put the thermostat back in and filled with fresh coolant but immediately I had a bunch of milky oil, perhaps when I put the thermostat in it caused other passages to flush before the thermostat opened up. The shuttle transmission cooler on my 580 SE is independent of the Rad system, it is mounted in front of the main rad and does not appear to be connected in any way. I did trace the lines earlier. I will get a rad pressure tester and see if I have a leak. I did have a core/frost/expansion plug on the top of the engine beside the cylinder #2 injector that was leaking, it had actually rusted through and was slowly leaking so I replaced that plug on the weekend. Fixed that leak and then discovered a leak in the top of the rad so before I can pressure test the rad I will have to repair or replace the rad. Based on your feedback I am also going to drain the rear just to confirm it was not submerged like yours. I'll keep you posted, really appreciate the advice. Hey by the way if you are looking for a free shop manual or parts manual for the 580 SE I found them available at Minnpar.com , I had already bought the shop manual from another site but the parts manual is handy and best of all they are free.
Hi fast_st, I was wondering the same. The shop manual shows the oil pressure range as 42 - 54 psi. I checked it at 60 psi, and there were no bubbles but as you mentioned what if a crack opened up when it is at normal service temperature (for example 190 F). I figured if it did not leak air at 60 psi and room temperature it would be ok with oil at service temperature but I could certainly be wrong. I thought for sure the oil cooler was the culprit but it passed the my leak. I guess I could do a pressure test in a large pan of hot water (180 - 190 F) to check for a hot leak. I am still wondering if there is a leaky core/frost/expansion plug in the rear of the engine that is allowing oil and coolant to pass both ways through from and into the torque converter section of the transmission, but outlawspeeder gave me some good advice and he does not think that is the a possibility. I did have a rusty core plug on the top of the head that was paper thin and was leaking moderately, it was easy to spot so I replaced it on the weekend. Any other ideas? Again I appreciate the support on this forum. P.S. If anybody needs to make a cheap pressure tester for an oil cooler I can show you what I did with a standard tire valve stem, an o-ring a couple pieces of flat bar and 4 C clamps.
What has me puzzled in your first post is that " you found oil in the coolant reservoir " They sell a tester for head gasket leakage at UAP or Amazon etc.... Worth a check. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7001006 It will tell you if combustion is entering the coolant system.
Hi hookedondiesel, I know what you mean, it literally had between 1/2 and 3/4 quart of oil in the reservoir. I thought it was empty so when I added coolant the oil rose to the top and spilled out the fill neck, I then siphoned it out and was surprised at how much oil was in there. I did do a bottle test by disconnecting the line to reservoir from the rad cap and placed the open end in a 1/2 filled bottle of water to see if rad was getting combustion gas and there were no bubbles. This was before I discovered a leak in the upper section of the rad, so it is possible the rad leak was there during the bottle test and the combustion air was just escaping out the rad leak. Thanks for the tip on the leak tester from NAPA, I may have to invest in one once I get the rad repaired or replaced.
If you replace the radiator be sure the new one has the same number of rows of tubes as the OEM.
Good point, will do, thanks.
Do you have water in the engine oil? The only way I know you can get oil in the radiator is engine oil or you have a SOP playing games wit you. Engine oil pressure will hit 60psi. Radiator will hit 14psi. So are you losing oil from your engine? Time for the bad part. Normally I start looking for a blown head gasket, crack head, or a crack in the water jacket in the block. By pressurizing the radiator using a hand pump you will push water into the motor when it is not running. It will not tell you where it is happening but will confirm "something is wrong". I can't tell you what to look at 1st. I just do not do a lot on these motors.
If 10psi blows apart your radiator you needed a radiator. The working pressure of most cooling systems is 14-15 psi.
Thanks for additional info outlawspeeder, to answer your question, I do not have water in the engine oil. I will take an accurate measure on the engine oil dipstick and see if it is dropping. I like the idea of pressurizing the rad with a hand pump and seeing where the coolant goes, hopefully it is a head gasket and not a water jacket.
Update: Went to drain the torque converter on the weekend but looks like I have to remove the front drive shaft guard and the front drive shaft, so with 12" of snow on the ground I am going to hold off on working on the Case until the weather warms up more in the spring. For now I am only using the backhoe it for about 10 minutes every week to clear the driveway. I have enough other projects to keep me busy in the heated garage until the weather improves. Thanks for everyone's advice I will definitely provide an update when I finally figure out what was causing the oil in coolant and the milky shuttle transmission oil. Cheers
I get it with the snow. Work on my hoe has stopped too. In theory keeping the water mixed with the oil should stop it from freezing. I don't know what will happen driving with milkshake on the clutches. Since your testing, I would like to know if you lose any clutch traction. This I am serious about, I don't know what the effect but would like to know if the water in the shuttle causes any clutch problems. The heat might cook the water out too? I can state water in the rear and gear box will not do damage if the water is below the oil. Mixed will keep the water from rusting the parts and the oil will keep it lubed.