Hey guys. Recently my brother picked up his new Cat 262C skid steer. He has been very disappointed with the top speed of the machine so far. So much so that he asked me to GPS it and we could only get 4.5mph out of it. The Cat literature states that a single speed machine should hit 7.7 and a two speed 12mph. There was a mix up with his order and he ended up getting the single speed machine instead of the two speed that he thought he had ordered. So, he was expecting a 12mph machine, settled for a 7-8mph machine, but ended up with a 4.5mph vehicle. Obviously skid steers are not known for speed but I have to agree with my brother that this particular machine is very slow. It is a tracked 262C, highflow, with the XDP package. While he was waiting for the 262C to come in, he has been renting a similar cat and it was faster. Unfortunately I don't know the model that he was renting. Do you guys have any thoughts on this? I've got a call into Cat to see if they have any ideas but won't hear anything till monday. The dealer did not make him sign papers on the machine yet so he is thinking of taking it back to them. Thanks for your time! Adam
Let Cat deal with it. This is what the warranty is for. The 262C is not a tracked machine, I assume your brother put steel over-tire tracks on it?
pretty much all tracked machines dont go much faster than 6 or 7 mph.
I'm not completely sure the GPS is accurate, but if you need to have solid numbers to decide how fast that thing is actually going, I have done a little math. To travel at a speed of 7 MPH, that machine needs to travel 616 feet in a minute, or 103 feet in 10 seconds if my math is correct.
You should see the ASV SR80 move
and therein may be the problem....wheel slippage inside the tracks??, does it have lug tyres fitted?? or maybe the drive hydraulics are not coping with the tracks??.
Hey! Thanks for the ideas guys. Please keep them coming. The machine has has Leogering VTS tracks on it. They are a rubber tracked complete replacement for the wheels/tires. The track system was installed and adjusted by the CAT dealer. We checked track tension and it looks to be just right. I'm sure that we could take it to cat to deal with it but I also think there is a large chance that the local dealer will just say: "thats normal". We would like to have some thing to back up their oppinion if it is normal. Thanks for the help! I'll try to measure ft/second to double check the numbers. Adam
It may well be that the VTS system is the cause of your reduction and the thing is never going to go any faster without a gearing change. Its probably one of the first VTS systems to go on a C series skid.
There is your problem. The VTS does slow the machine down some. I noticed while running the VTS on a single speed 70XT. I would make Cat get the right machine. Not having two speed is no small matter. Especially if you have ride control the lose of productivity and the lower resale would make it a no go
If the dealer made the mistake of not ordering the 2-speed then let it go back.If you made the mistake then you just might be SOL!! Good luck.:usa
there is a maximum runnout calibration test for the machine. The wheel/VTS sprocket should spin at 224 RPM +/- 20 RPM with the machine rasied and no load on the tires, tracks. If the speed is out of spec then it should be calibrated, and with a little math the vehicle speed should be brought back to spec with the VTS installed. Although I have never heard of or seen a noticable drop of machine speed after VTS tracks, and on certain machines it's actually the oposite result as the diameter of the track/sprocket assy is larger than the tires on the small framed machines. Lastly, you paid top dollar for the best machine there is, put a $15K set of tracks on it and haven't mentioned it to the dealer that it's 2-3 mph slower than STD?
Thanks again to everyone for their responses. My brother took the 262C back to the Cat dealer this morning. The salesman and he "raced" the tracked 262C and another 262C with wheels/tires. Apparently the machine with tires was much faster. So, the investigation is ongoing. Either there is something wrong with the machine or the tracks really slowed it down. Whether or not to order a new one is kind of a hard decision. According to the dealer, you can not buy a 262C with the two speed transmission and XDP heavy duty shafts that are recommended/required for the track system.
What exactly are these shafts? What does XDP stand for?
The shafts aren't any different than the STD shafts, the seals however are are duo-cone seals for a far more robust design for extreme operation. While they might not be able to be ordered on a 2-speed machine, they are not required for VTS operation. Either way I hope they get it fixed for you with minimal downtime.
The XDP stands for Extreme Duty Powertrain package. Here is a quote from the cat website "The XDP powertrain package is required for use in conjunction with the Loegering VTS* steel embedded rubber track system.". This is the same as we have been hearing from the local dealer. There are two XDP packages and they both include a one speed transmission. The dealer has told us that if we order a machine with the two speed transmission and not the XDP package, then the machine will probably not be covered by the warrantee. CarterKraft, This is the first that I have heard about the shafts being the same but the seals being heavy duty. If we had a two speed machine without the XDP package, how reliable do you think the machine would be? We work in a rocky, hilly terrain. We're kind of frustrated over the whole situation. Thanks for your help guys!
Not sure were you are seeing the above statement but.... I have just looked again and all the parts are the same, save for the seals. The lip type seal in the STD axles are more prone to failure when subjected to submersion and extended operation with impacted mud. You keep the string, wire etc out of the seals, don't run in river bottoms for weeks at a time you will be fine. There is a Special Instruction for converting machines for VTS tracks and involves the drive train configuration, not XDP axles. If you have your parts CD look up the axles and you will see what I mean.
CarterKraft, Thanks a bunch for your information. I'm not sure if he still has the parts CD as he already returned the machine. Yesterday the dealer told him (my brother) that they will not warantee a new 262C two speed with Loegering VTS tracks on it. Pretty disappointing.... I wonder why they don't just put the stronger seals in with the two speed? Oh just for informational purposes, I found the statement about Loegering tracks in the Cat "Build and Quote". Build a 262C and next to the "Performance Package" option it says "? More Info". Click on the more info and a page pops up that describes the XDP packages. Its possible that THIS LINK might get you straight to the page. Anyway, today my brother is picking up a Deere to demo so we'll see how that works out. Thanks again to everyone for your time! Adam
Sorry about Cat not coming through,to bad.They never could get your machine to go faster after your returned it.Did they try???? If the only change is in the seals that shouldn't have anything to do with the speed.I'd make them check it out more first. Please keep us updated on your search for other machines, and if things changes with the Cat machine.Good luck! Thanks:usa
After my brother returned the Cat, the dealer told him that a different customer brought his tracked 262C into the dealer. They ran them side by side and they supposedly ran the same speed. I think that in the dealers mind, that is enough to say that everything in the machine is fine and they just run slow with the tracks on. On Loegerings website they have a SPEC SHEET that says the 262C with their tracks and a single speed transmission should run 6.1mph. They also rate the two speed transmission and tracks as running 9.5mph. Its interesting because Cat doesn't want Loegering tracks on a two speed machine...
I think you will find...correct me if I'm wrong...but their is hardly a manufacturer out there that warrants the drivetrain if you significantly modify it....and I think VTS is a significant mod. I know Bobcat wont have a bar of it. If you notice the way Cat powers their MTL as opposed to the wheeled machines with the same chassis/weight you will notice the MTL on most models (not sure on all the C's) have smaller or de-rated engines. One of the big learning curves when the tracked machines first hit the market was drivetrain damage/loads...If you gave the Hp to the operator he used it. Cat must be concerned that using the two speed option on the VTS equipped machine may put a strain on the drive system???:beatsme Do any of the C series MTL have 2 speed???
I am pretty sure you can get 2-speed MTL's. I would also like to edit my previous post, the housings of the XDP are differant than the STD axles. That said, I have never seen a axle failure due to VTS tracks. I have seen many axle seal failures due to foregin objects. I have never seen a axle housing failure, STD or XDP. The VTS system places extra loads on the drivetrain components that weren't designed to take them. :Banghead There is a Special Instuction that includes the parts and directions to convert a tired machine into a VTS tracked machine, this conversion shifts the front drive chain to the rear axle yielding higher torque capabillity than the single chain design. If this hasn't happened already I would assume this procedure will have to happen at the dealer at the time VTS tracks are installed to retain warranty on the associated parts. I applaud CAT for taking the initiative and stepping up to the plate on this.:notworthy
You betcha. [Some] ASVs do, too.
That is interesting that CAT wont warranty their machine with VTS. Especially since it is partially their product. The CAT guys here push the VTS system hard. There rental tracked machines all have VTS. They will not rent a MTL any longer. I purchased a set of VTS tracks and I think it will go on my 440. Quiggly Down Under makes a very good point. The high hp wheeled machines that are converted to VTS stand a very good chance of failure in my mind, I am not aware of any machine failing with the system on. The VTS only drives off of the back axle. A high hp machine will then be pushing all its power through the one axle, and that one axle is powering a track system that is far less likely to give unlike a wheeled axle. As mentioned no one designs a wheeled machine to take that kind of power in that way. I have spoke with CASE engineering and they are not aware of any failures with the VTS, but they don't endorse the system either. I am considering putting the VTS on a machine and leaving them on and buying another wheeled machine. Initally I thought about putting them on the 440 I have and buying another. I have thought about the fact that 85 hp might be a little much with the VTS. As an option to that I have considered putting them on a 430, which is the same machine physically just less go. I ran a 70XT with the VTS and it was incredibly powerful. I think probably too powerful, especially with employees. An owner/operator would probably be fine.
I understand they will warranty the machine if it has been properly converted as per the special instruction. Now this is all happening so fast I would verify all inforamation gathered here with your local CAT dealer, cause I am not paying the bill
I think what Carter is saying is they warrant the thing with VTS on with single speed only, not with the two speed option...if I'm reading this right. Who is this Quiggly character???:beatsme
I see what your saying. Quiggly Down Under was movie starring Tom Sellick (Magnum PI of the 80's) he was a sharp shooter in Australia, good flick.
Hey guys! The local dealer says that CAT will warrant the single speed machines with the tracks but, so far, not the two speed. On another note, I drove my first skid steer on friday. I really had a blast! My brother had the 262B rental and the Deere for a trial run. I ran the Cat and really had fun doing a small job at my house. I'll let you know if anything else develops with this. Adam
Vts Tracks Hi I'm about to buy a used CAT 248B 400 hrs with Loegering VTS tracks. It probably does not have these dual seals mentioned above. Should I worry about this? Anyone had any damage to their skid steer from running VTS traks? thanks !
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums ipopeye! :drinkup
VTS tracks will slow the speed all loaders. The drive sprockets are smaller than the tires you are replacing. This lowers the speed but increases the available torque. This allows the machine to have enough power to handle the increased weight and friction of turning the tracks. VTS Specifications sheet lists many of the current models and their speeds with and with out the VTS. I spoke with the Loegering Reps and they recommended putting the tracks on a two speed machine to regain some speed for shuttle operations.
Just a quick update on our situation since this thread has been revived. Cat would not warrantee a new 262C with the Loegering tracks and a two speed trans. My brother ended up getting a Case 450CT with a two speed and is very happy with it. We like Cat machines but in this case, Cat just couldn't get it done for us. Thanks again to you guys for the help!
So how is the Ct working out for you and being early in the game do you think it was better choice then a skid with the VTS ?:usa
I think the big downfall of the VTS is warranty issue but I cant blame the equipment companies completely. It would be nice if a machine could be 'beefed' up to handle the VTS. I was going to put a used set on my 440 and everyone said not to do it and I chickened out, now I wish i would have just done it. The 450 Case is sweet ride.
Hey guys. The 450CT is my brother's. Unfortunately I don't run equipment (I sit at a desk ). He was disappointed when the Cat deal fell apart but he seems to be really happy with the Case. Its fast and seems to be well built. If you have any specific questions I'd certainly be happy to ask my brother.
Congrats on your/his new machine.